Is our obsession with English/ British players holding us back?

[Irrational.]

I saw someone debating the signings we've made under Ole in one of the other threads and they mentioned that we've spent close to £150 million on AWB, Maguire and Dan James combined - which is a mind-boggling sum for three players not yet close to world class.

It's clear that none of these players are worth what we paid for them. AWB and Maguire are solid players no doubt, but for that price we could've bought smarter and bought a similar profile of player (if not better) for a fraction of the price, had we cast our net wider.

It looks like we're going to spend most of the summer courting Sancho with BvB unlikely to budge from their £100 million+ price tag. If reports are to be believed, Villa are also unlikely to let Grealish leave for less than £60-80 million.

As a comparison look at what Chelsea have paid for Ziyech and Werner combined. Pulisic was also bought for a relative pittance.

So, is the club's obsession with 'buying British' hamstringing us, and hindering us spending in other crucial areas as a result? I get that it's the identity of the team, but occasionally this seems a bit extreme when it comes to us.

 

[Paul_Scholes18]

Yeah English players are often overrated in terms of the cost. Thus you get better value from other leagues I think.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I was highly critical of the ‘young & British’ rhetoric at the beginning of the season only for the OgS defendants to get caught in their feelings.

Nationality should honestly be irrelevant & had it been we’d have bought neither at the cost; both are relative upgrades on who they’ve replaced but at £80mil & £50mil we should have utilised the funds differently.

 

[Crashoutcassius]

in years gone by we have spent 100m + on lindelof, bailly, rojo, dalot and none have done what maguire and awb did for us this year (most clean sheets in europe top 5 leagues, and with a poor goalkeeper). so so far it has worked in the opposite way that you are suggesting, although it may yet turn around

 

[Jippy]

We've regularly overpaid for foreign signings too.
It certainly feels like our success rate on big money transfers is mediocre at best and that other clubs fare better in that regard. Dunno if that's the grass always been greener or not though. Would be good to see some analysis.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

We've regularly overpaid for foreign signings too.
It certainly feels like our success rate on big money transfers is mediocre at best and that other clubs fare better in that regard. Dunno if that's the grass always been greener or not though. Would be good to see some analysis.

There was a thread on the football forum for this.

More big signings(80m+) failed than they worked out.

 

[passing-wind]

I think there's a point that you make well with us maybe not targeting enough younger talent outside of our domestic environment but at the same time this current generation of English players are more than good enough to build a quality team around.

I think James / Maguire represent examples of bad value. I still feel with AWB (on form / fit) that we have one of the best defensive players in the league. I certainly wouldn't overrule his contributions over a handful of average games considering how he's played over the entire season.

The problem with us compared to Chelsea is that Chelsea have a proper footballing structure with the right people in the right places making the pivotal decisions (DOF). We still have an outdated infrastructure of a relatively low experienced manager in Solskjaer (at the highest level) and his immediate team sending Woodward / Judge observations about who they would like in the team. The problem with this approach is if Ole is sacked our present strategy for identifying players will go along with him. But we are making progress so it's being masked at this current moment in time.

 

[ReallyUSA]

Absolutely not. Though AWB fell off a cliff these last few games, he was solid throughout the year. Maguire has probably had our best centerback year in ages. The team spent hundreds of millions of dollars of foreign players.

 

[charlenefan]

I saw someone debating the signings we've made under Ole in one of the other threads and they mentioned that we've spent close to £150 million on AWB, Maguire and Dan James combined - which is a mind-boggling sum for three players not yet close to world class.

It's clear that none of these players are worth what we paid for them. AWB and Maguire are solid players no doubt, but for that price we could've bought smarter and bought a similar profile of player (if not better) for a fraction of the price, had we cast our net wider.

It looks like we're going to spend most of the summer courting Sancho with BvB unlikely to budge from their £100 million+ price tag. If reports are to be believed, Villa are also unlikely to let Grealish leave for less than £60-80 million.

As a comparison look at what Chelsea have paid for Ziyech and Werner combined. Pulisic was also bought for a relative pittance.

So, is the club's obsession with 'buying British' hamstringing us, and hindering us spending in other crucial areas as a result? I get that it's the identity of the team, but occasionally this seems a bit extreme when it comes to us.

Bruno's British?

 

[Chairman Steve]

The emerging generation of British players is pretty good to be honest, especially when the Top 2 German clubs have been sniffing around for them. Now is as good a time than ever to embrace the jokingly named Brexit FC approach.

British lads dream of playing for the likes of Utd, Liverpool and Arsenal and never really look towards Real, Barcelona, Bayern or Juve. British lads usually end up being the leaders of the squad, forming the spine or the base of a team, with the foreign players being the pretty add-ons who come and go.

There really arent that many successful British teams who didnt have a core of British players. City in the 2010s are the only team that come to mind.

 

[Fluctuation0161]

its only James who I believe will not work out for us (would love to be proved wrong). AWB and Maguire will be hood for United.

 

[berbatrick]

Not sure if the problem today was British players - AWB and Rashford (and Lindelof) were poor and Greenwood was marginal, but Maguire and Williams did ok/well.

 

[Jippy]

There was a thread on the football forum for this.

More big signings(80m+) failed than they worked out.

I can imagine. Would be interesting for say £40m+ players. More of a mixed bag depending on the club I reckon.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Totally, I dont understand why are we willing to pay the "british tax", Maguire for 85M? FFS, AWB for 50M? feck me.

Just seeing how Reguilon, named the best left back in la Liga, is quoted for 30M and watching Hakimi go to Inter for 40M really puts things into perspective. I know there's more money involved in the premier league hence the english teams have no need to sell their players for cheap, but I would stay away from any average british player, the most recent examples are Rice and Grealish, the first one being quoted for 50M and the second one for 80M FFS can you imagine any foreign team paying that much?

We are paying because theyre british, not because they are worth that much.

 

[Charles Miller]

I think United should emulate Bayern and try to keep the best talents of the country.

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

I think United should emulate Bayern and try to keep the best talents of the country.

Trouble is Bayern get the players for a pittance/on a free; we face so much more competition domestically for the best talent that the Bayern model isn’t feasible.

We should be buying the best talent in world football; focusing on this island will stifle us.

 

[Pavl3n]

Yes, it is holding us back. English players are not great (bar 1 or 2 generational talents). Yes, they are very good, but not great. England's progress in international tournements is a clear proof. In order to achieve great things, you need great players. Winning titles with players like Rashford and Maguire, won't be possible.
Rashford is overhyped and so is Maguire. So many times during those games after the restart Lindelof bailed out Maguire, yet Harry has been saved the critics.
I'd put Sterling in the same bracket - overhyped player. Yes, he is good, but the people hyping him want to put him on the same level as one of the best wingers the
football world has seen.

 

[DickDastardly]

It might not be the worst tactic in the transfer business.

We are a UK based team - and we do play in the Premiership. It's only natural to have the majority of players from the UK.

Out of the foreign players, for some reason, the Portugese seem to be a good choice, maybe because they're close to home?

The weather, the culture, the language, it all takes learning or the willingness to adapt.
Perhaps the exotic players from Argentina or Brazil, seeing as they speak spanish and portugese, tend to play there.

The good German players are all swiftly taken by Bayern, so you don't have many options there, Borussia seem to take all the young talents so there's no room there either.

I actually don't know where the best of our scouts go?
Who makes the most "new talents" in the world? France? They seem to have rather good generations nowdays....

 

[Revan]

We overpay for everyone. Swear to god that we would overpay even if we sign someone from Singapore’s fourth league.

 

[ivaldo]

Lukaku, Dalot, Matic, Sanchez, Micky Targaryen, Bailly, Schneiderlin, Bastian etc. The British signings look like a run away success compared to the bar majority of our foreign signings.

Along with France, England has arguably the best set of young talent coming through in the world. British players, unsurprisingly, speak the native tongue, has experience of the league already, has no issues with leaving home or to a change in culture. I'll gladly pay a few more quid for that.

 

[Skills]

We overpay for everyone. Swear to god that we would overpay even if we sign someone from Singapore’s fourth league.

This is correct.

This is mostly because we're not really searching the market for opportunities. We just buy whoever/whatever the feck the manager wants or whatever position he wants to fill. It's all very short term shit - so when we're in the market for a CB/ST/CM everyone knows we're desperate.

 

[glazed]

I like the fact we have lots of British players. It means something. Arsenal might as well be Italian or Spanish, they are were so cosmopolitan under Wenger.

 

[Dominos]

I think people forget the homegrown quota we have to meet. It's not as simple as shipping out all our British players and replacing them with foreign talent.

 

[E-mal]

We could have done better and honestly AWB is not Man Utd quality footballing wise.

 

[Revan]

This is correct.

This is mostly because we're not really searching the market for opportunities. We just buy whoever/whatever the feck the manager wants or whatever position he wants to fill. It's all very short term shit - so when we're in the market for a CB/ST/CM everyone knows we're desperate.

Yep. Which is why the thing I dislike most in Ed is that we still do not have a DoF who would plan long-term and would take the barren a bit from the manager. But people were happy with Ole to spend 135m in a good CB and a mediocre RB, and no fecking idea why Ed is persisting with this nonsense.

 

[The Original]

I think that to build lasting success as a truly dominant team, you have to build around a core of players from your home nation.

Real Madrid and Barça attract the best of Spanish talent. Bayern attracts the best of German talent, Juventus, the best of Italian talent, and others.

This is the only way to ensure a steady stream of talent without always being second choice to a big team in another league.

So I agree with the British first strategy but I don't think the club is getting the right players.

 

[LoneStar]

Ah yes, because every foreign player we have signed, whether cheap or expensive has been an unequivocal success.

Maguire has been our best CB in years, and has managed to play almost every single game, which I remember reading was a record since almost 25 years.

We literally did the exact thing you suggested with Bruno Fernandes btw. And of course while talent matters more, nationality, experience playing in the league and culture also matters a lot. Best example is Di Maria. Not saying we should go out of the way for English talent, but if talent is similar, I’d be happy to pay 10-15% extra for the same.

 

[Revan]

I think people forget the homegrown quota we have to meet. It's not as simple as shipping out all our British players and replacing them with foreign talent.

You need 8 homegrown players in a squad of 25. We have many more than that (Grant, Jones, Smalling, Maguire, AWB, Shaw, McTominay, Pogba, Rashford, Lingard, James, Pereira, TFM) with Greenwood, Tuanzabe, Menji, Mejbri, and Williams in the future. You are exaggerating the importance of the homegrown quota.

 

[Prodigal7]

Yes and no. We have to be in for the best British talent above all else but we also can’t accept the ones who are not going to help us compete for titles. Jones, Smalling, Lingard etc shouldn’t have stayed here for longer than a few years really.

the thing is international players care a lot about lifestyle and Manchester is the polar opposite to what they grow up with. It’s like Gary Neville said, most foreign players especially from South America and Europe will only stay a couple of years and then want to leave for a club on the continent. They’ll also pack their bags the moment real or Barca come in for them.
London clubs have a slight advantage over us when it comes to foreign players in that they prefer the lifestyle there.

Scandinavia players like big Pete and Ole tend to stay longer as the climate is more similar to England, IMO we should expand our focus to those players in particular as well.

 

[manunited1919]

My issue with this infatuation with British talent is that we hold on to them for too long even when it’s abundantly clear they are poor players and non-functional at the roles they are supposed to play. Rooney (he was a great player, but we held onto him for at least 2 or 3 years beyond his sell date). Young. Phil Jones. Lindgard.

So not only do they take our pay undeservedly, like Phil Jones does. They also take up space in the team for opportunities that should go to other players. For example, since the restart it has been Lindgard that received mimutes and opportunities despite not scoring or assisting in ages. So now Chong will go out on a 2 year loan, Pereira will leave, and Gomez has left. All 3 are better quality than Lingard.

Another example: Romero was left out in today’s match against Sevilla, for DDG. So what does that have to do with British players? For me it’s a sign United want to push out Romero and sell him, to make room for Henderson, the young British talent.

 

[Andycoleno9]

When you overpay them (or give them too high wages) then yes.
Nobody can't tell me that our scouts can't find players like Maguire or Awb or James outside UK. And they would cost at least half of money. Which means that we can buy more players for less money

 

[UDontMessWith24]

This United must have the best English talent because that's how SAF did it gimmicky nonsense needs to end. Unless of course we find another manager not made of flesh and blood that comes around once every 100 years.

City and Liverpool have close to unlimited pulling power when it comes to buying players, so we can't afford to take anything past is the player good enough to be part of a squad that can compete with the two dominant teams, does he fit United's style of play, and does he fit the dressing room culture. Being British is not a skill unless we're playing darts.

 

[Foxbatt]

Lets see how Young does tomorrow. I entirely agree that we need a DOF. It is absurd to think that Woodward is doing it. A good DOF like Jordi Cruijff would be good for United. He has played for a lot of big clubs and also for United and has been a success as a DOF. But he probably would eventually make to Barca as the DOF.