He needs time. He has the authority and credibility needed to get us back to the top. He will make mistakes, and will learn from those.
Is ten Hag still *the one* (for you) or another placeholder?
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Why not though? If the club were run by somewhat competent people, he would've never been expected to dictate our transfer strategy and identify our targets.
Equivalent sized clubs like RM and BM have less patient fanbases than Utd imo, I think they demand more from players and definitely more immediate results from managers
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He's a good coach and he has a good philosophy. However, he will not succeed here with the poor transfer management and getting second choice players. I have a feeling he will lose the ability to get anything out of the players like Jose and Ole did and will have to be sacked. Probably even this season. It's very unfortunate.
I agree with people questioning his ways and decision making at times, but the many posts in the ETH thread post-game that wanted him sacked after four games was absolutely bizarre.
Yes, sometimes his subs are headscratchers. Yes, some of his signings have not achieved what we expected them to and yes, they should probably take transfer decisions out of his hands as well if it was up to me. But after everything he achieved after that 6th place finish where our club was an absolute dumpster fire he deserves more respect.
Arteta went on to go 8th (half season) and 5th before going on a great run. Klopp ended up 8th as well, then 4th back to back. Yet people expect ETH to be a title contender immediately after he overachieved (in my opinion) with last years squad. And it's not like we are THAT atrocious. Game against Wolves was horrible for sure, but those two away games against Spurs and Arsenal were way closer than the scoreline reflects and the referees chose to dismiss some obvious game-changing fouls.
We don't really know if he's "the one" yet, but I also feel like many fans are stuck in the past and forget that this league now has 11-12 teams that can win against anybody on any given night. There is so much competition and if you don't give a manager time to build a squad, experiment and tinker around it's just a never ending cycle of hiring, sacking and most of all disappointment. Can we at least give him a full season with what seems a semi decent striker instead of Wout Weghorst and see how baldy does? I think that would be fair.
Yes, sometimes his subs are headscratchers. Yes, some of his signings have not achieved what we expected them to and yes, they should probably take transfer decisions out of his hands as well if it was up to me. But after everything he achieved after that 6th place finish where our club was an absolute dumpster fire he deserves more respect.
Arteta went on to go 8th (half season) and 5th before going on a great run. Klopp ended up 8th as well, then 4th back to back. Yet people expect ETH to be a title contender immediately after he overachieved (in my opinion) with last years squad. And it's not like we are THAT atrocious. Game against Wolves was horrible for sure, but those two away games against Spurs and Arsenal were way closer than the scoreline reflects and the referees chose to dismiss some obvious game-changing fouls.
We don't really know if he's "the one" yet, but I also feel like many fans are stuck in the past and forget that this league now has 11-12 teams that can win against anybody on any given night. There is so much competition and if you don't give a manager time to build a squad, experiment and tinker around it's just a never ending cycle of hiring, sacking and most of all disappointment. Can we at least give him a full season with what seems a semi decent striker instead of Wout Weghorst and see how baldy does? I think that would be fair.
He is the one. We need new owners, not a new manager
To be fair their league is also way less competitive than the PL where 12-13 teams could easily beat the "top" teams on any given night and weren't as dysfunctional as we were for the last 10 years. I doubt ETH would struggle against Celta de Vigo or Werder if he managed these teams, but I guess we'll never know.
True, I think the default position on new managers for those clubs is different though, it’s more prove to us you’re good enough than this guy is the messiah
that is true.Perfectly put
I don't think it's unreasonable to expect to actually win games against opposition that aren't all that great in truth.
Spurs have a new manager, lost their star player and aren't anything special.
Arsenal are decent now but not outstanding. We certainly shouldn't be giving up two goals in injury time.
I don't like over negativity and do want the team to do well but I'm not going to pretend that the football hasn't been pretty uninspiring for the most part of late, and that expecting good performances and for the team not to roll over against decent sides is unreasonable.
I'm on the fence. I'm not yet convinced he's "the one" but I think he deserves more time and he is dealing with a dysfunctionally run football club.
However, the missteps are starting to increase. I hate the way he appears to have wanted Greenwood back on the playing staff. That showed a serious lack of judgement in my opinion. How did he not foresee the backlash?
As does the Antony signing. An astronomical sum of money spent on a player he knew inside-out and back-to-front, but who turns out to be so predictable and one dimensional that any half decent championship level left back could probably mark him out of a game. And that's before we even get into the other shit that's emerging with that player.
And the away record and performances against top half teams is little short of scandalous.
So, he's got a bit to do yet before I'm convinced he's "the one".
However, the missteps are starting to increase. I hate the way he appears to have wanted Greenwood back on the playing staff. That showed a serious lack of judgement in my opinion. How did he not foresee the backlash?
As does the Antony signing. An astronomical sum of money spent on a player he knew inside-out and back-to-front, but who turns out to be so predictable and one dimensional that any half decent championship level left back could probably mark him out of a game. And that's before we even get into the other shit that's emerging with that player.
And the away record and performances against top half teams is little short of scandalous.
So, he's got a bit to do yet before I'm convinced he's "the one".
Drop two players who regularly our best? Why would you want to do that?
I'd say the biggest risk is that he gets the shits with the idiotic way the club is run and buggers off. Likely leaving us with far worse option to appoint.
I think anyone expecting quick success is underestimating just how poorly run we are and how bad things were when he arrived.
He needs more time to fix this shambles. If we had proper people working above him then maybe I’d expect a quicker turnaround of our fortunes but you’ve got to look at what he’s dealing with both in terms of ownership and leadership above him.
Why do you think he’s bringing in so many players he already knows? It’s likely because we don’t have a proper director finding the right players to fit his system. He’s basically having to do his own scouting and I think that’s been his biggest weakness so far. Our transfers haven’t exactly been great.
He’s had the utter nonsense that is the Ronaldo saga, Greenwood issues and even Maguire. Problems that no other major club seems to have because we’ve spent years buying the wrong players. The clear out has begun but certainly isn’t finished. We’ve also got the club sale hanging around like a bad smell.
He hasn’t been perfect obviously and is learning the league still but he’s got all the right attributes to make it work. This is a project and we shouldn’t abandon it half way through unless things are absolutely dire, which they aren’t.
He needs more time to fix this shambles. If we had proper people working above him then maybe I’d expect a quicker turnaround of our fortunes but you’ve got to look at what he’s dealing with both in terms of ownership and leadership above him.
Why do you think he’s bringing in so many players he already knows? It’s likely because we don’t have a proper director finding the right players to fit his system. He’s basically having to do his own scouting and I think that’s been his biggest weakness so far. Our transfers haven’t exactly been great.
He’s had the utter nonsense that is the Ronaldo saga, Greenwood issues and even Maguire. Problems that no other major club seems to have because we’ve spent years buying the wrong players. The clear out has begun but certainly isn’t finished. We’ve also got the club sale hanging around like a bad smell.
He hasn’t been perfect obviously and is learning the league still but he’s got all the right attributes to make it work. This is a project and we shouldn’t abandon it half way through unless things are absolutely dire, which they aren’t.
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Fully back him, but don't let him get close to transfers. He is notorously shit at them. Was at Ajax, and now seems to be so at United as well. I mean, how can he have coached Antony, and not realised he is an extremely one-dimensional, limited player. I knew for a fact that Antony was not Top-6 PL quality, how can he not have.
Alternatively, sack him and send him back to Ajax, because we have been utter shambles since he left.
Alternatively, sack him and send him back to Ajax, because we have been utter shambles since he left.
There’s probably no such thing as “the one” currently, the chances of us stumbling across another Fergie or Sir Matt are very small, it’ll probably happen again at some point, but to keep retaining managers in the hope they’ll do a Fergie and turn it round after 3 years seems fanciful. A manager is as good as his last season.
I’d remove transfer duties from him. Whether that’s given to Murtough or whether we bring in somebody new to take care of that side, I’m not really fussed but I’ve not been massively impressed with his transfer targets so far and for me, we need to change something in that area.
Overall though I like him and am happy to give him some time. I’m a little disappointed that our playing style hasn’t been as drastically altered as I thought it would be, but we do seem to be coaching the players these days. Some of them actually seem able to pass and not shit the bed as soon as they are pressed, unlike the Ole and Jose periods.
All in all I’d give him around 7/10 so far. Pretty good, but can probably do better in some areas.
I’d remove transfer duties from him. Whether that’s given to Murtough or whether we bring in somebody new to take care of that side, I’m not really fussed but I’ve not been massively impressed with his transfer targets so far and for me, we need to change something in that area.
Overall though I like him and am happy to give him some time. I’m a little disappointed that our playing style hasn’t been as drastically altered as I thought it would be, but we do seem to be coaching the players these days. Some of them actually seem able to pass and not shit the bed as soon as they are pressed, unlike the Ole and Jose periods.
All in all I’d give him around 7/10 so far. Pretty good, but can probably do better in some areas.
As you have your finger on the pulse in Ajax can you keep an eye on Sutalo and tell us how he is bedding in.
Can't see a good outcome for him come what may.
Glazers stay, he's hamstrung with their subpar execs and weird transfer policy.
Glazers go, the new regime will probably want to clean house and that includes Eric.
He's guilty by association with the previous ownership and not really a young Manager any more.
Glazers stay, he's hamstrung with their subpar execs and weird transfer policy.
Glazers go, the new regime will probably want to clean house and that includes Eric.
He's guilty by association with the previous ownership and not really a young Manager any more.
Happy with him so far. He has been ruthless clearing out. It would be too much to expect instant success but he has got the team moving in the right direction. I would stick with him like Arsenal did with Arteta. The success will come.
He's easily the one - I'm honestly baffled by the amount of knee jerk posters on the caf who are throwing their arms up from GW2 or 3 onwards.
The two wins were arguably 'lucky', Wolves stonewall penalty and generally better team, Forest unlucky to have the lad sent off, neither top teams. Outplayed by Spurs in effort and style, Sunday a draw would have been probably the fairest result. Amrabat and Hojlund to come in and should improve the team, but there needs to be a fairly quick turn around or the top 4 could even become a tough task.
Favourable run of PL fixtures coming up, Brighton, Palace, Brentford home, Burnley and Sheffield Utd away, two defeats or worse would be a terrible return and heap the pressure on. Also need a 'performance' away to Bayern and a win at home to Galatasary in that run.
Favourable run of PL fixtures coming up, Brighton, Palace, Brentford home, Burnley and Sheffield Utd away, two defeats or worse would be a terrible return and heap the pressure on. Also need a 'performance' away to Bayern and a win at home to Galatasary in that run.
He's the one that I want (the one that I only want)
Heh, heh, heh, ok
Heh, heh, heh, ok
Literally our only attacking threats. I get that they're erratic at times, but any manager would be insane to be benching Bruno or Rashford in any serious games.
That would be my take as well.
Also I think, we should move away from this "the one" mentality. Nobody knows, if a Fergie story could even happen these days. So using him (or even worse, the tinted perception of his legacy) as some sort of reference, will only do us harm. As on many other levels, evaluating impacts of players, managers or staff shouldn't just be done on a "good" and "bad" scale. That is way too simplistic and generally unfair because the relative success any party can achieve is bound to be interconnected with the success of others.
As a club, we let ourselves down for many years. Potentially even in late Fergie time, when Fergie choosed to take the comfortable route by making use of Scholes and Giggs instead of building a younger team with a young new core. But it is, what it is. We can't get rid of 10 years of mess within one or two years of alright decision. There is a certain level of pain, we as fans have to accept, when evolving as a team.
I can understand, that people expected more or something a little less subtle. But again, it is, what it is. At least we are going into a certain direction for now. Worst thing, we can do would be to be too fickle and lose the path another time. It will only let us further into the darkness and away from the path. ETH might not be the one, who will lead us to the path the quickest but it doesn't matter. As long as we know that above him, there is entity, who can provide continuity there simply isn't any alternative. Criticize him, be mad - nobody is free from faults. Be overdramatic, that is all legit and fine - but actually pushing for getting rid of him will only prolong the suffering. We are starting to bring in players who seem to be intelligent. Who have a less laid-back attitude. Who have shown to be capable of playing in modern football systems. Pieces have to set now, in a blend of being pragmatic and deal with the squad as it is (with injuries and form) and a blend of being stubborn by not getting distracted by potential ways to take a step backwards only to win a game more or not.
Getting to 2 cup finals, winning one of them after the season that went before should give him some breathing space to be judged. I think last season, winning a trophy raised expectations with many that we should be challenging for a title this season. I don't see that happening.
All the off field noise around the ownership, Greenwood, Antony, now the Sancho issue can't be helping either. He has a lot on his plate and it's going to take time to sort this mess of a club out.
All the off field noise around the ownership, Greenwood, Antony, now the Sancho issue can't be helping either. He has a lot on his plate and it's going to take time to sort this mess of a club out.
That's where I'm at as well. We peaked against Barca/Newcastle, we looked rather good all-round and I thought our first XI can compete against anyone, the problem is drop off from there (in terms of squad). We played rather pragmatic football but a lot of players looked much improved.
Since that time and in retrospective it seems like that "peak" was just a few key players in top form. It doesn't take anything away from the manager, but the drop since that time and ETH stubbornness to play the same midfield game-in-game-out was worrying me a bit.
What worries me a lot though is the setup he went for (clearly Mount was his priority) looks utterly naive and somehow we looked much, much worse with Mason in place of Eriksen (who was rightly identified as a problem defensively).
A lot depends on Hojlund I think. If he turns out to be a reasonable success and makes us more functional, then we're back on track and excitement is there again. If he struggles and is not effective this season (I am not even talking about scoring 20+goals here), we are in trouble, and Ten Hag is in trouble.
Still I don't think there are many excuses to play such poor football (even against Arsenal), this really surprised me as I thought that Ten Hag will be at least a good coach, and I don't see that at all since we dropped from Cup final. We seem to be doing a lot of random movement and very direct play, what I don't associate with progressive football.
We can safely say that the clubs arent backing him to the fullest if the early transfer list is to go by. He wants 2 strikers, 2 midfielders, RB, and at least 1 CB. We got him 1 young unproven striker, 2 MF but 1 so late on, no CB, RB, and half of first 11 injured with 3 games in. We can argue that he still hasnt got his full squad yet and cant really play to his preffered style.
I think it safe to say that if United dont get new owners (be it Qatar or any other, just wants them to put money in to invest in the squads) then we will see us in limbo another 10 years especially with others clubs that backed by states and spending spree owners. I really getting to the point of being indifferent to the state of this club and football as a whole. Cant be bother too much now.
I think it safe to say that if United dont get new owners (be it Qatar or any other, just wants them to put money in to invest in the squads) then we will see us in limbo another 10 years especially with others clubs that backed by states and spending spree owners. I really getting to the point of being indifferent to the state of this club and football as a whole. Cant be bother too much now.
Very early days, but he might be the only good incoming transfer, out of 12, in this latest transfer window.
Yes definitely. He is doing fine, on a similar path to some prior managers. He ultimately needs to do better to achieve anything. But we can't do better right now no question. Hope he survives the season
I've been a big admirer of him but the last two weeks have been rather vague. He's shown some weakness (saying players didn't run enough against Spurs) and threw Sancho under the bus which he never did in the past (what does his statement achieve when he could have sold Sancho if he isn't good enough). Issues with MG, club sale, Antony etc doesn't help his cause. We'd be mad to sack him, but I get a feeling he isn't happy about certain things United & getting frustrated as a result.
I see a lot of those posts on the board and I find it very interesting. So how does it work exactly? Building "his full squad" might take another 2 seasons. Should we drop any expectations until he has his full squad?
I have a fundamental problem with managers that only have one way of playing football, especially if they have not proven this to work to the highest level and in multiple environments. If we got Pep from Bayern I would give him all the money and time to build his squad (pretty much what City did). But with the likes of ETH I think it's a major risk. What I would like to see (and this is also a sign of a good manager) is that the team progressess slowly into the direction/final vision of the manager, but is better at each "step". We started very low, then we got to a high level (Barca game/Cup final), but then dropped quite low again in latter stages of the season. What we saw early on in the season looked pretty bad, so I question if we are really making much of a progress. We did spend a small fortune under ETH so it's not like he's not being backed. You can argue we didn't get him a CB and that directly translated to Arsenal loss as we had to go for 5th/6th choice CB pairing. That is true and extremely bad luck. But other than that it seems to me he got what he wanted. Not many clubs would allow to spend 90m on Antony mind you.
We cannot function like that. I think the bar this season is to show improvement in overall structure and style of play. As long as we do that, he should get another season. Given the state the club was when he came in, any realistic expectation/ test on performance should only be in season 3 onwards. If we are still not challenging for the title next season, then we need to look at how far we are, and if he needs to get sacked.
He is the most competent manager we have had since Fergie on dealing with a number of on field and off-field issues. He has won a lot of good will based on his results last season, and he has made Old Trafford a fortress. We have things to work on, but we need to assess this at the earliest in January of 2025.
Time will tell. Last season ended on a high note, minus the Sevilla debacle. Had high expectations to start the new season, but these 4 games have all been underwhelming. Didn't deserve to win over the Wolves, should have put the Spurs away in the 1st half, but didn't and then folded and beat a 10 man Forest team with a 50/50 penalty decision. They are playing timid and the morals are low when something goes wrong. I hope now that the team is 100% set in terms of transfers, it will all become better.
He's had a bumpy start because he's trying to move to a new pattern of play - and build a squad that can deliver it. If he's made any errors, it's not making this clear enough to the fans - at the moment people don't understand his signings because they don't understand his goals. Also I don't think people have given enough consideration to the fcking nightmare of FFP.
Even if he went, all the current problems would still be here, so I say let's at least get behind the guy who is trying to solve them - and making solid progress.
I'd be OK with top 4 this season given the size of that challenge, but also top 4 guarantees a CL place just at the moment when our financial firepower will be back.
We have a talented coach who pretty much has the team he wants albeit with too many injuries still in key areas. I say, let him get on with his job and let's see what happens. If it's the wrong patter of play or he's bought the wrong players to deliver it, then of course he should be accountable for that. But we hired ETC partly to give us a new way of playing, so let's given him a chance to do that.
Even if he went, all the current problems would still be here, so I say let's at least get behind the guy who is trying to solve them - and making solid progress.
I'd be OK with top 4 this season given the size of that challenge, but also top 4 guarantees a CL place just at the moment when our financial firepower will be back.
We have a talented coach who pretty much has the team he wants albeit with too many injuries still in key areas. I say, let him get on with his job and let's see what happens. If it's the wrong patter of play or he's bought the wrong players to deliver it, then of course he should be accountable for that. But we hired ETC partly to give us a new way of playing, so let's given him a chance to do that.
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I see that we all have somewhat question marks for EtH and it somewhat merit to a certain extend. However, we wont know for sure if hes going to fail or sucess if we dont back him and allow him times (3/4 seasons, Klopp and even Pep with all the signjng that he got until he gets what he needs for his style).
If we sack him mid season then get another manager and have a little rebounce and then sack again, rince and repeat. We cant keep doing it, i would be glad if we can keep sacking manager and still wins things like Chelsea did but we are just very badly run as a football club from top down. Honestly, we can say he did good enough for first season, right? This season should be continue for his rebuild job but we see what was going on with club sales hanging and the plan was all mess up from that point on with not enough funds, uncertainties...ect. Season started, he didnt have his 2 strikers, and the one he got was injured too, and then our first 11 were dropping like flies. The squad is a mess, we cant clear out the deadwoods because the clubs keeps dilly dallying with the value and decisions.
Like i said, its hard 7/8 years ago to compete with City and its at the point of impossiblen to compete with them now because City (with pep still there) already far ahead from everyones at least 2/3 years squad wise and still have unlimit funds to keep buying. Football is gone now, at least for me. I watch it only United but i dont expect anything from United.
Where does it end? Sack managers and bring in someone new, they buy the players they want, some of them 2nd and 3rd choice, we don’t do well, they get sacked and we start all over.
I’m of the opinion that Christmas/New year is the time to evaluate and if he needs to go, he goes but if there is a better pattern of play along with results then he deserves to stay.
I’m of the opinion that Christmas/New year is the time to evaluate and if he needs to go, he goes but if there is a better pattern of play along with results then he deserves to stay.
The more I see, the more doubts I have. We’ve made very little progress in terms of style of play or underlying performances. Transfer targets feel very suspect and underwhelming. Too few goals are being scored and the defence is miles behind where it was under Ole with Maguire, Lindelof and McFred. I’m underwhelmed, but the manager should get more time obviously. I don’t think it is given he will be here next season. Could go either way.
I posed this exact question in a private message group yesterday and it hits the nail on the head. I would really feel uncomfortable at this stage in letting Ten Hag further shape the first team in his vision, when there are a lot of red flags.
He has been a puppet for the glazers. A placeholder for me. I wish we could get Luis Enrique somehow as the next manager.
The fact is that we haven't seen us click for a full 90 minutes during his tenure. He's had two full pre seasons to make the squad click.
A top manager can make a team play good football in a matter of a couple of months and I'm not speaking about the results.
A top manager can make a team play good football in a matter of a couple of months and I'm not speaking about the results.