Is ten Hag still *the one* (for you) or another placeholder?

[Dargonk]

I really don't understand people who are wanting to turf him out already. His first season was relatively successful in comparison to our usual level of the last five years, and we are now only a few games into the second. We have to face reality, forming a revolving door of managers isn't going to help us, particularly as we don't have the structure set up within the club to handle that. So we should be backing him unless things go massively tits up.

Some people should also take a small reality check, this current United job isn't one that the very very best managers want. We have a top tier brand and expectations, but everything else hasn't been for a long time now, and that will effect who we can realistically even bring in to replace him.

 

[glasgow 21]

Hence the Christmas/New Year idea, better than a lot of people on here who want him gone now. Sure I hope he stays on longer as he’s the best we have had post SAF.

I think some of the ETH naysayers need to look at 3 years in and the posters held up at old trafford regarding Alex Ferguson. Everyone is wanting a quick fix but there isn't one. We have to swallow our pride and work through the problem only then will we be able to walk amongst the giants again. The top of the food chain at United need to fall on their sword once in while i.e Arnold , Murotugh etc before we go back for a quick fix with the manager.

 

[peridigm]

Need to give him atleast 3 years.
So this and next season.
If he hasnt gotten the team to play his way by then i dont think it will ever work.

I agree. While it is looking bleak at the moment, we're only 4 games in. On paper our squad seems decimated with the potential to lose two more in Sancho and Antony, I hold hope that the club will be sold and the squad can be sorted out in the coming transfer windows.

 

[Lash]

He's still the one for me. He needs to adapt still, but on the whole we're moving in the right direction and play closer to the "United way" than under any other manager.

 

[TsuWave]

play closer to the "United way" than under any other manager.

What is that?

 

[Sunny Jim]

have a feeling he will be gone by the end of the season. I think both cases (MG & Antony) could be used against him.

 

[Lash]

What is that?

I'd say fundamentally we've been a transition team, we're not heavy possession, but we like to throw men forward at pace, be it with the ball or moving it. Pretty much all the players he's signed are aggressive, hardworking but technically sound - which I think is what traditionally endears fans to our players.

I think we've still got issues of balance and resilience throughout the squad. He needs to find a better way of approaching big games too, as it's not really worked for him. He's probably hidden behind the De Gea's (not to single him out, but the tactical misfits) and injuries a bit too much, but he'll run out of that road pretty quickly this season.

 

[Rhyme Animal]

He’s been ‘the one’ to achieve our first silverware in 5 years - and that is a big achievement, despite it being the League Cup, it’s still really important.

Further than that, despite being a really good coach, I personally don’t think his style is particularly well suited to the modern PL.

And for me, that’s where the club keeps failing, they can’t seem to grasp the notion that a successful Utd manager MUST be very well suited to the modern PL - not the previous PL, like Mourinho, or the style of other leagues like LvG or ETH.

 

[Silas]

Needs someone above him for recruitment.

 

[sparx99]

I have my doubts. The bar is CL qualification this year as well or he should be sacked. I hope things pick up after the internationals.

In some ways we need to move away from that line of thinking. Progress isn’t always a straight line and even if we went backwards in the table this season I think I’d want to see Ten Hag get another year or two.

I just feel like the mess at our club has been so big that turning it around is a multi-year process. A lot of people continue to say we should be better it’s his 2nd season now etc. I get that but it’s easy to forget just how toxic the whole club was at the end of the season when Ten Hag was brought in.

We’ve actually moved on a lot of players in the last 12 months but we still have another 4-5 to go for certain and possibly even another 2-3 who have been part of the first team and playing a role.

When other teams like Madrid and Chelsea had continued success despite sacking managers it was because they had a strong sporting director/ongoing vision arranging the signings. We’ve always lurched from one vision to another and that’s no way to build success.

 

[pocco]

Its time to call in the next superstar manager Kjetil Knutsen if this doesnt work out

Finished 18 points behind the winners last season.

 

[Gordon Godot]

In some ways we need to move away from that line of thinking. Progress isn’t always a straight line and even if we went backwards in the table this season I think I’d want to see Ten Hag get another year or two.

I just feel like the mess at our club has been so big that turning it around is a multi-year process. A lot of people continue to say we should be better it’s his 2nd season now etc. I get that but it’s easy to forget just how toxic the whole club was at the end of the season when Ten Hag was brought in.

We’ve actually moved on a lot of players in the last 12 months but we still have another 4-5 to go for certain and possibly even another 2-3 who have been part of the first team and playing a role.

When other teams like Madrid and Chelsea had continued success despite sacking managers it was because they had a strong sporting director/ongoing vision arranging the signings. We’ve always lurched from one vision to another and that’s no way to build success.

We regressed at the end of last season and seem to be worse this. Unless things turn around what is going to change? His transfers are very unconvincing. Until the whole ownersip/ club management changes we are going to struggle, but ETH has underwhelmed recently. Needs to deliver something by Xmas or this season coud get ugly.

 

[TsuWave]

I'd say fundamentally we've been a transition team, we're not heavy possession, but we like to throw men forward at pace, be it with the ball or moving it. Pretty much all the players he's signed are aggressive, hardworking but technically sound - which I think is what traditionally endears fans to our players.

I think we've still got issues of balance and resilience throughout the squad. He needs to find a better way of approaching big games too, as it's not really worked for him. He's probably hidden behind the De Gea's (not to single him out, but the tactical misfits) and injuries a bit too much, but he'll run out of that road pretty quickly this season.

Pretty reasonable assessment. I take it you like that transition non-possession throw man forward at pace football?

 

[sparx99]

We regressed at the end of last season and seem to be worse this. Unless things turn around what is going to change? His transfers are very unconvincing. Until the whole ownersip/ club management changes we are going to struggle, but ETH has underwhelmed recently. Needs to deliver something by Xmas or this season coud get ugly.

Yeah, I’m maybe more forgiving of some things last season given how busy we were. Long cup runs in the FA cup and Europa League for no reward didn’t help our form.

That being said there are only so many excuses to be made before you run out of patience. It’s hard to watch De Zerbi, Ange etc getting seemingly more from lesser players and more quickly.

I guess it comes down to where on the excuses/legitimate reasons scale you land. In the last 12 months you could say the following have been barriers to success.

- Ronaldo drama
- Greenwood case
- Late summer signings of Casemiro and Antony.
- Hectic schedule caused by the World Cup and our own Cup success plus losing a game week because of the Queens death.
- Sancho mid-season break
- Martial injury issues and lack of ability to lead the line
- Weghorst lack of quality
- Eriksen and Martinez injuries for the back end of the season

Obviously on the pitch is what matters but I do get the impression that Ten Hag has a better handle on managing the whole club with attention to detail than anybody since Fergie. We just need to start seeing that translate to the pitch with better football and results.

 

[glasgow 21]

Lack of style? You guys are watching the same team with me?

Yeah they are watching but forgive them they know what they do or say

 

[Lash]

Pretty reasonable assessment. I take it you like that transition non-possession throw man forward at pace football?

I am a not really dogmatic in my preference, but I think that particular element of football I have a great fondness for. I have to admit, I quite like the Mourinho/Simeone performances that edge out 1-0 victories with 11 men behind the ball and ceding possession. I like well executed, quick transitions, with possession based pressing traps - I thought that part of our Arsenal performance was great. Probably one of my favourite United goals was Ronaldo's against Arsenal in the CL, at the Emirates. Absolutely devastating.

That being said, I'm of the age that when my world revolved around football, Spain/Barcelona from 08-15 were the absolute pinnacle of football aesthetics, so I know that is probably "the better style", but at the time felt like that was once in a generation and non-repeatable. Other teams that spring to mind when I think of what style I admired, I really enjoyed Ancelotti's Milan. I probably lean more to defensively solid, transition teams when I think about it!

 

[Pscholes18]

If still keep him for this season, because the structure above is still awful and our recruit is terrible.

I imagine De Zerbi will be the next one touted.

Then he'll come in and deal with same shite, Glazers, shite lazy players and we will go through this rigamahroll all over again until people are calling fir his head after the first season.

 

[Bojan Djordjic]

Still too early to say. I couldn't have been happier with the Ten Hag appointment but I have to say there are a few orange flags for me:

• Best football we've played remains his first pre-season when Sancho, Rashford and Martial were really playing gorgeous link up play. Results since have been good but we've outperformed last year and the football has been mediocre. Last season, I made excuses because we were competing on all fronts so had limited training time to work on attacking patterns etc but after his first full pre-season with a re-vamped team, we're playing worse than ever. We've seen other managers come in (not just the sexy ones like de Zerbi and Ange but even Eddie Howe) and bring their teams from much lower base levels to approaching games looking very organised and coherent in their styles of play.
• Fitness - why is the United team looking like we're at the end of a 60 game season in its first few weeks. Also lack of rotation is going to be a big issue at the end of the year.
• Set pieces - concerning that we have not addressed such an obvious area of improvement. We're absolutely dire at set pieces and by improving this single facet of the game we could turn a lot of draws into wins or losses into draws/wins.
• Youth - His reluctance to gamble on youth is disappointing given the clubs history as a promoter of youth talent. The performances of Zidan in pre-season last year definitely earned him a chance for some relevant minutes in the cups last year. I know Zidan isn't rated that highly but he was brilliant on that tour and so should get an opportunity if he's performing, especially when our midfield underperforms in every game. He was also prevented from going on loan only to languish in the reserves. Pellistri has had some really impressive cameos only to be glued to the bench for ten games at a time. The Reguilon loan also annoyed me when we have a very promising full back in our reserves and Reguilon is both a) bad and b) extremely injury prone.
• Transfers
  • Antony - Pushing this signing so hard when the fee became utterly ridiculous was such a weird hill for him to die on. If he had been €40mn we'd have already upgraded him. Also, can't believe he didn't know about Antony's behavioural issues and if he did know, he didn't care which is pretty horrible for your leader to behave especially when you contrast his tolerance of Antony and Greenwood with that of Sancho who is being targeted by the club in its briefings right now because he doesn't smile enough.
  • The FdJ fiasco last year was also embarrassing in hindsight and his unrealistic pursuit of someone who had no interest in joining us wasted precious time and locked up resources.
  • Casemiro - started off so well but is already looking like latter days Matic without the amazing progression/retention.
  • Mount - I like Mount but its a damning indictment when we've had to bring in another midfielder in the same window to do the role Mount was bought to do. This was a really obviously flawed signing. Reminds me of when we bought Van de Beek.
  • I know its a meme but his obsession with past players in the transfer market is really annoying and so limiting to our ambitions.

 

[r0663664]

ETH's job is to coach and tell the management what type of players that he needs. Not who he wants to buy! It is the scout to identify which players fits the profile. United should built and data analytics team where players data are collected and analyse. The list is then finalise and presented to ETH of their findings and analysis. That should be the way forward, not buying every player that the manager demands.

 

[TsuWave]

I am a not really dogmatic in my preference, but I think that particular element of football I have a great fondness for. I have to admit, I quite like the Mourinho/Simeone performances that edge out 1-0 victories with 11 men behind the ball and ceding possession. I like well executed, quick transitions, with possession based pressing traps - I thought that part of our Arsenal performance was great. Probably one of my favourite United goals was Ronaldo's against Arsenal in the CL, at the Emirates. Absolutely devastating.

That being said, I'm of the age that when my world revolved around football, Spain/Barcelona from 08-15 were the absolute pinnacle of football aesthetics, so I know that is probably "the better style", but at the time felt like that was once in a generation and non-repeatable. Other teams that spring to mind when I think of what style I admired, I really enjoyed Ancelotti's Milan. I probably lean more to defensively solid, transition teams when I think about it!

Cool, thanks for answering. Oh, and if that's the goal I'm thinking then it's probably one of my favourite goals of all time - despite my personal preference leaning towards teams that dominate possession:

 

[Luffy]

I think that those who are impatient with the section of fans who support ETH no matter what, simply see a repeat of the e.g. OLE fans who defended the latter to the hilt till the bitter end.

And those fans who are on the other side of the debate may be preoccupied with what will happen should Ten Hag be sacked. A new manager, back to square one.

I'd just like to say that a team will always remain in transition until the squad secures the manager's position.

Unless Ten Hag drives his team to be Champions of England, he will never be the One. And the team will stop being in transition only when it tastes real success.

Ten Hag lags behind Sir Alex in at least two aspects, namely luck, and skill in the transfer market. If ETH survives the next two seasons, he will definitely get lucky.

So, his weakness lies in his inability to buy well, and buy cheap.

I like the football we play, I think the manager will win us the title if the Glazers pop off, or if Ten Hag is given at least 3 or 4 years to make champions of us.

But I also think he'll be sacked within 2 seasons. The circumstances ordained it.

 

[Lash]

Cool, thanks for answering. Oh, and if that's the goal I'm thinking then it's probably one of my favourite goals of all time - despite my personal preference leaning towards teams that dominate possession:

That's the one!

 

[nickm]

I think that those who are impatient with the section of fans who support ETH no matter what, simply see a repeat of the e.g. OLE fans who defended the latter to the hilt till the bitter end.

Well, it's not 'no matter what' it's 'too early to say'.

I think it's apples vs oranges. Ten Hag has a plan, he's identified the issues, he's working through them. He's managed at a decent level with a proven record, and is a good coach, good attention to detail, on the up, did a difficult job well last season. He deserves sticking with. When Martin Edwards decided to stick with Ferguson, it was at least partly because of all the work he was doing to improve the club in every aspect, not just the results on the pitch. He thought all that would come good with patience, and he was right. I think you have to judge Ten Hag the same way. Fans who were "Ole til the end" were just misguided, it was the wrong assessment for the wrong reasons. There was always a sneaking sense that Ole wasn't up to the job; I think Ten Hag is, so let's let him cook.

 

[sirAlexsglasses]

Have we really got people wanting him
out already FFS.

 

[garelo]

have a feeling he will be gone by the end of the season. I think both cases (MG & Antony) could be used against him.

He can resign and his reputation will still be intact so that he can wait for another job at big club. Problem is, who are we going to get to replace him? Michael Carrick? i dont think top names would want to come here considering the complexity of our problems right now. I'd rather we keep him and get a more credible DoF to help him in the transfer market.

 

[fallengt]

Sack him then what. Who going to replace him? Hipster of the month De Zerbi?
Remember the next guy would have to deal with the same shit ETH is dealing with, right now.

 

[redzombie]

I like him, and think he's done a good job. The away losses to the top six teams is pretty warrying though and had hoped to have seen a marked improvement to our play style.

 

[glasgow 21]

Sack him then what. Who going to replace him? Hipster of the month De Zerbi?
Remember the next guy would have to deal with the same shit ETH is dealing with, right now.

100% correct. It is so easy to ignore that the team prior to ETH ,and that is the team in a whole First team and squad members, as a whole were poor. We were all on here saying that. Look at our transfers no-one wants our players unless they are for basically free which would be the alarm bell ringing in Murtough office.
No one seem to care about that but in a trying period lets through yet another manager under the bus.

Our squad needs rebuilt and that isn't happening overnight it will take another 2 seasons to see any gain on the overall squad. You either let this happen or it will be rinse and repeat. You would think that SAF never bought a bad player. It easy to take and add to a winning squad but building one is a different matter. City were way ahead on recruitment before even Pep got there. Swallow some pride this isn't 1999 and let this guy get a squad in his image.

 

[mav_9me]

Two seasons minimum for a manager to show what he’s worth. Unless it’s utterly brilliant or abysmal. But those are outliers. Management comes with lots of ups and downs. The flavours of the month now will be derided in two months time, and vice versa. I’ve seen enough to reserve judgement until the end of the season, not 4 games into it.

He was neither the messiah nor a fraud when he was appointed. Any manager needs good infrastructure, intelligent recruitment, and some luck to succeed. A body of work should be judged over months and seasons, not weeks and games.

All Ten Hag was when we appointed him was a good manager coming into a mess of a club. And all Ten Hag currently is is a good manager at a mess of a club. Nevertheless, he has made progress in a number of areas.

Yet without ownership change, strong organisational leadership, proper infrastructure and joined up, long term strategic thinking, any manager has the deck stacked against him here.

What else needs to be said?

 

[Tyrion]

Then he'll come in and deal with same shite, Glazers, shite lazy players and we will go through this rigamahroll all over again until people are calling fir his head after the first season.

Pretty much. "Sack manager now" is the default response of angry, knee jerk fans.

 

[Tyrion]

Well, in hindsight this turned out to be right.

Alot of what Moyes said turned out to be right but it offended the sensibilities of our precious fans at the time so they turned on him pretty quickly.

 

[norm87cro]

For me he is slightly overrated but Im not looking for his head just yet. He hasnt really adressed our defence he just humiliated Maguire (and that made 85% of the Caf happy and convinced he did) which is not the same as adressing all the issues ( Lindelof being horrible, Martinez short and Varane injury prone). Hopefully our new shiny DM will fix some leaks

 

[Revaulx]

I have absolutely no idea.

I think he did a decent job last season in exceptionally difficult circumstances. This season can’t be said to have started well, but it’s early days and there’s lots of unhelpful stuff still going on in the background.

I’m not sure the recruitment has been great, but at least (with the possible exception of Mount) we are signing players to address specific gaps and weaknesses in the squad. Which hasn’t always been the case in recent times.

Let’s see where we are after Christmas.

 

[Revaulx]

Alot of what Moyes said turned out to be right but it offended the sensibilities of our precious fans at the time so they turned on him pretty quickly.

Well he was right when he said “I don’t know what to do to get this side to win”

In support of him, it’s pretty clear that he was shocked at the threadbare behind-the-scenes operation at United, and told Woodward so. The fact that the latter didn’t respond adequately has hampered subsequent managers ever since.

 

[Himannv]

I don’t feel he’s in the top tier with Pep and Klopp but he’s definitely in the tier below that. Given time he will build a successful team although it might still be difficult to actually win the league due to how strong City are.

He’s not perfect and has his weaknesses and areas he can improve on, but he’s still a good manager in my view and someone we should persist with.

 

[erikcred]

Alot of what Moyes said turned out to be right but it offended the sensibilities of our precious fans at the time so they turned on him pretty quickly.

But the top reds were much more aware and knew that getting beat at home to City and Liverpool with zero fight would be just the first building blocks of a soon-to-be treble.

 

[UDontMessWith24]

For me he is slightly overrated but Im not looking for his head just yet. He hasnt really adressed our defence he just humiliated Maguire (and that made 85% of the Caf happy and convinced he did) which is not the same as adressing all the issues ( Lindelof being horrible, Martinez short and Varane injury prone). Hopefully our new shiny DM will fix some leaks

Tied for 4th least goals conceded in the league in his first season and the most clean sheets despite the Brentford, City and Liverpool outliers. Maguire has no business at this club.

 

[sugar_kane]

He’s as close to *the one* as we’re going to get right now.

On the pitch we’re still miles away but he inherited an absolute shit show in terms of the squad (quality and morale) and has made mostly solid choices in terms of the squad rebuild from a footballing and character perspective.

His dealing with squad challenges (Ronaldo, Maguire, Sancho, De Gea, and to a lesser extent keeping Rashford & Garnacho in check) has been exceptional, and I’d question which other manager could have dealt with these as calmly and decisively as he did.

In his first season he won a trophy and finished top three which is more than adequate.

All the while he’s had the ownership issue hanging over his head, as well as the Greenwood PR nightmare bubbling away.

He’s been working with a hierarchy and scouting network who are clearly still nowhere near fit to be central to the running of such a huge club.

In short, he’s doing a great job and I can’t imagine who could have done better beyond Pep and Klopp, even with these two you’d have to question whether they’d have put up with the shit constantly thrown Ten Hag’s way.

He needs to weather this current storm and make sure he doesn’t lose the dressing room through his disciplinarian approach. It works fine when results are going well, but when they start to slip this squad has proved time and again they will down tools.

 

[Chumpsbechumps]

Seriously, anybody calling for ETH to be sacked needs to have a word with themselves

 

[lysglimt]

There is nothing he has done so far that has convinced me that he is the right person - and yes, I was very pro-Ten Hag at first.

There are managers who get as much or more out of the squad, with a lot cheaper and on paper - worse players. And after spending £400 million on players, I really expect us to look like a decent football-side rather than the shitshow we have seen this season. A couple of more defeats in the next 4-5 games and he really should worry about his position as manager.