Is there any ability involved in being a good manager?

[Skills]

Genuinely curious on what the caf thinks.

Are good managers just those who got enough money and an infinite amount of time? Is there much/any difference in ability between say Alex Ferguson and David Moyes - just the former was afforded the time and money to do his job?

 

[mariachi-19]

Genuinely curious on what the caf thinks.

Are good managers just those who got enough money and an infinite amount of time? Is there much/any difference in ability between say Alex Ferguson and David Moyes - just the former was afforded the time and money to do his job?

Take a look at your work history. Do any managers or bosses stand out as being people you would bust your arse for or do the bare minimum? That will answer your question...

It doesn't matter where you go in life, it is hard to be a good manager because to be a good manager, you need to understand people and how they react to different situations and scenarios both above and below you on the food chain. Not only that, you need to be ahead of your staff in terms of thinking and you need to ensure that the people who work beneath you, are competent in their roles. Part of that is also your ability to communicate properly with them but also ensuring that you make the correct recruitment.

It becomes obvious that despite the opportunities some are provided due to their stature in the work place, the difference between subpar and great managers is night and day.

The change between Ferguson and Moyes is clearly evidence of that. You have one ultra capable manager who is widely considered one of the greatest coaches in any sport (if not the greatest) anywhere in the world and one who recruited the wrong people, couldnt communicate and lost the respect of his staff.

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

Of course there's an ability involved in various ways.

Moyes could have been given 10 years, I doubt he would have been successful.

 

[UpWithRivers]

50 percent resources. 30 percent managerial ability. 20 percent luck.

 

[Skills]

Of course there's an ability involved in various ways.

Moyes could have been given 10 years, I doubt he would have been successful.

So there was a chance?

 

[dal]

The Key skill of being a manager is man management. Nothing complicated just great man management and resource management. Hire a great team, sign good players and deliver good man management and that’s it really.

 

[The Boy]

There are many skills needed to be a good manager in any walk of life, recruitment is an important one but it is only one part of the jigsaw. People management, empathy, understanding of the roles your staff do, judgement, adaptability, communication etc etc the list goes on and on.

 

[ROFLUTION]

I think hard work and passion is not mentioned enough in here. See Klopp and Sir Alex who got a lot out of talents/mediocre players.

Sir Alex was one of the hardest workers. Always drove early into Carrington, always was up to date with youth, always first on the doorstep to greet a new talent. Constantly focused. Constantly on.

 

[#07]

Putting your question another way @Skills you could ask is there any difference between Sir Alex Ferguson and David Moyes. I think the answer is self-evident.

 

[KirkDuyt]

I think 80% of managers are roughly as good as the sum of their team. 15%, likes David Moyes or Frank de Boer manage to make people worse than they are and about 5% inspire greatness in combination with smart tactics.

 

[norm87cro]

Some managers would have been great in any situation and at any club (example: Fergie). Some wouldn't necessary but given the wright recourses and a suitable fit they will do well in the proper organisation (example: Zidane). Some wouldn't do well in any circumstance (example: Moyes).

 

[He'sRaldo]

I think there are definitely outstanding qualities of top managers. But this leads to the question:

Are those qualities only evident after the fact, after the manager starts winning a lot? Or are there identifiable qualities that can tip a manager for greatness even before he has won anything? Even if he's a youth team manager?

 

[KirkDuyt]

Some managers would have been great in any situation and at any club (example: Fergie). Some wouldn't necessary but given the wright recourses and a suitable fit they will do well in the proper organisation (example: Zidane). Some wouldn't do well in any circumstance (example: Moyes).

I dunno if Fergies hairdryer style would fit with a team full of fragile instagram generation ego's. He was an amazing, perfect fit for United, but I dont think necessarily that means it would've worked everywhere.

Blasphemy, I know

 

[Snuffkin]

Fergie, Stein, Clough and Shankly were all disciplinarians. That works if you have the respect of the players. But modern people don't have an innate respect of teachers, police etc. Quite right too, all of our authority figures have proved corrupt in western society. These days you need to earn respect and you need to treat each individual differently. I think good managers these days have good back room staff who can deliver bespoke man management across a squad.

 

[Zen86]

Some managers really do stand out as a cut above the rest for one reason or another, but I think the vast majority of what people class as good managers are more down to ideal circumstances and luck. In other words, they just have a good thing going.

 

[Ish]

I dunno if Fergies hairdryer style would fit with a team full of fragile instagram generation ego's. He was an amazing, perfect fit for United, but I dont think necessarily that means it would've worked everywhere.

Blasphemy, I know

If there was one thing SAF was known for, it was for his ability to adapt and rebuild. Move with the times.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

They need @Skills

 

[balaks]

What a ridiculous op. Of course it takes ability.

 

[Skills]

Putting your question another way @Skills you could ask is there any difference between Sir Alex Ferguson and David Moyes. I think the answer is self-evident.

Time?

 

[Eddy_JukeZ]

So there was a chance?

I was trying to be kind.

He would have failed even worse were he given more time.

 

[KirkDuyt]

If there was one thing SAF was known for, it was for his ability to adapt and rebuild. Move with the times.

Yeah fair enough. I think it's the times in general that have changed. SAF was a manager that was at all times above all his players. He was the boss, end of story. I have a feeling we're trending more and more to a situation where most of the time, the players sort of outrank the manager. I think it was Cruijff who said a coach should always get a higher salary than all of his players, since he is there boss and it should be reflected as such.

On another note, I think this is also part of what makes being a ref so hard. These superstar players going up to you saying, who the feck are you to call a foul on me you pauper cnut. I'll run you over in my private jet.

 

[Skills]

Yeah fair enough. I think it's the times in general that have changed. SAF was a manager that was at all times above all his players. He was the boss, end of story. I have a feeling we're trending more and more to a situation where most of the time, the players sort of outrank the manager. I think it was Cruijff who said a coach should always get a higher salary than all of his players, since he is there boss and it should be reflected as such.

On another note, I think this is also part of what makes being a ref so hard. These superstar players going up to you saying, who the feck are you to call a foul on me you pauper cnut. I'll run you over in my private jet.

Well doesn't that make sense considering the players could be worth 100s of millions. What's a managers worth?

I reckon in real time, the average premier league manager has a net negative value. When they are moved on the club has to pay to get rid of them unlike the players.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

They need @Skills

Okay seriously.

A good football manager need a good mix of at least most of these skills:

• man-management
• coaching
• decisions-making
• critical thinking
• mental/emotional management
• communication
• interpersonal-social
• adaptation
• forecasting
• funds management
• time management
• etc

Basically Football Intelligence <-- which is the most important here, and general management skills.

Good manager + Good environment = Ideal!
Good manager + Poor environment = Good.
Shit manager + Good environment = Rubbish...
Shit manager + Poor environment = Disaster!

 

[roonster09]

Yeah fair enough. I think it's the times in general that have changed. SAF was a manager that was at all times above all his players. He was the boss, end of story. I have a feeling we're trending more and more to a situation where most of the time, the players sort of outrank the manager. I think it was Cruijff who said a coach should always get a higher salary than all of his players, since he is there boss and it should be reflected as such.

On another note, I think this is also part of what makes being a ref so hard. These superstar players going up to you saying, who the feck are you to call a foul on me you pauper cnut. I'll run you over in my private jet.

Not sure about that but SAF for sure said that and IIRC he said that in his book too. When Rooney got huge pay in 2010, SAF also got pay rise

 

[Web of Bissaka]

Time?

Moyes didn't fully make use of his time. If he seriously expect to be given that plenty of time for doing shit work on and off the pitch then he is a shit manager. If the club seriously let him until the end of his 6 years was it?, then the club have shit management team.

Fergie did serious works off the pitch yes? which the club management team at the higher ups acknowledged and gave him more times. On the pitch he eventually won the first trophy which helps get more time. On pitch performances also improving so..

 

[KirkDuyt]

Not sure about that but SAF for sure said that and IIRC he said that in his book too. When Rooney got huge pay in 2010, SAF also got pay rise

Ah it might've been SAF not Cruijff (Dutch people like to think he invented everything).

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

1. EQ.
2.IQ.

A good manager is a good leader, a great manager is a great leader. Great leader is always a great human being. SAF made players die for him on that pitch.

 

[KirkDuyt]

1. EQ.
2.IQ.

A good manager is a good leader, a great manager is a great leader. Great leader is always a great human being. SAF made players die for him on that pitch.

I doubt this. Some of the greatest leaders in world history were ruthless sociopaths.

(not talking about SAF, hold your stones and rotten vegetables)

 

[Josep Dowling]

So there was a chance?

If you can’t get the respect of your players then no. He was never going to be successful here and anyone who says he just needed time is fooling themselves. He reacted like a child when we signed Mata if you watch the interview back. It was too big a job for him.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Okay seriously.

A good football manager need a good mix of at least most of these skills:

• man-management
• coaching
• decisions-making
• critical thinking
• mental/emotional management
• communication
• interpersonal-social
• adaptation
• forecasting
• funds management
• time management
• etc

Basically Football Intelligence <-- which is the most important here, and general management skills.

Good manager + Good environment = Ideal!
Good manager + Poor environment = Good.
Shit manager + Good environment = Rubbish...
Shit manager + Poor environment = Disaster!

You forgot to add results for Average manager and Average environmnent.

 

[He'sRaldo]

1. EQ.
2.IQ.

A good manager is a good leader, a great manager is a great leader. Great leader is always a great human being. SAF made players die for him on that pitch.

Not necessarily a great human being, but they do usually have great interpersonal skills.

 

[Ish]

Yeah fair enough. I think it's the times in general that have changed. SAF was a manager that was at all times above all his players. He was the boss, end of story. I have a feeling we're trending more and more to a situation where most of the time, the players sort of outrank the manager. I think it was Cruijff who said a coach should always get a higher salary than all of his players, since he is there boss and it should be reflected as such.

On another note, I think this is also part of what makes being a ref so hard. These superstar players going up to you saying, who the feck are you to call a foul on me you pauper cnut. I'll run you over in my private jet.

Yeah agreed with your notion - SAF was the ultimate authoritarian but I guess he earned that. Similar to how Klopp/Pep, & the top managers, demand the ultimate respect or they ship you off. Once a manager is undermined, there’s no going back. It’s one of the reasons Mourinho’s methods do not work any longer - he’s been unable to adapt & when you’re not winning anymore either, it’s a disastrous combination.

 

[stevoc]

Time?

Personality, leadership, intelligence, man management skills, ability to adapt, tactical knowledge and of course some balls.

Enough of a combination of those things with a bit of luck will get you all the time you need.

 

[OleBoiii]

Of course there is.

Having to deal with players from all over the world with all sorts of problems and preferences is not easy. The competition is fierce, so squeezing out every last drop of potential is crucial.

Dealing with the media is also an art. There's a reason for why press secretaries and speech writers exist. As a manager, you generally have none of those. On top of that you need to speak at the worst possible moments(after a loss, for instance). Fergie said that this was the hardest part of the job.

The tactical aspect of the job is wildly overrated, though.

 

[stevoc]

Yeah fair enough. I think it's the times in general that have changed. SAF was a manager that was at all times above all his players. He was the boss, end of story. I have a feeling we're trending more and more to a situation where most of the time, the players sort of outrank the manager. I think it was Cruijff who said a coach should always get a higher salary than all of his players, since he is there boss and it should be reflected as such.

On another note, I think this is also part of what makes being a ref so hard. These superstar players going up to you saying, who the feck are you to call a foul on me you pauper cnut. I'll run you over in my private jet.

Yeah i don't think if the PL start paying Michael Oliver £600k per week all the footballers will suddenly respect him.

 

[Leftback99]

Of course there is but you can't judge it solely on results. There's too many variables involved, the main one being the quality of players. Put the average Caf poster in charge of City and he'd finish above Guardiola with a league 2 side every time.

 

[JPRouve]

Moyes was afforded a decade at Everton and he achieved nothing, in Scotland SAF dethroned the Old Firm with Aberdeen. Other posters have mentioned the skills required, I would simply add that it's no different to a PL player vs League two player, they play the same sport, in theory they have the same superficial underestanding of the game but one is a better athlete, better technician and processes information faster. For managers, some are better tacticans, they have better man management skills, better management skills and they process information faster.

 

[KirkDuyt]

Yeah i don't think if the PL start paying Michael Oliver £600k per week all the footballers will suddenly respect him.

Of course not, he should also have his own Nike and Lays commercials. And maybe some plastic surgery to look like less of a cnut.

 

[dove]

Clearly a troll thread, you can't be seriously believing things that you wrote in OP.

 

[wolvored]

A successful manager needs
A clear style of how he wants his team to play. A good knowledge of player pools home and abroad. A good relationship with the board. Well funded to bring the better players in. Coaches and scouts who can implement the managers ideas, pick and train well the players in the squad. Respect from the squad and staff. Time and luck as well. Being a manager of a 'big name' club either historically or new money orientated does help as well.
Fergie had all of the above. He started in an era when Utd was never expected to win the league, so had time and luck on his side. He had a board who backed him well in the transfer market. He earned respect as the years rolled on and as well as players from home (Uk and Ireland), which had always happened, players from abroad wanted to play for him as well. The coaches, the scouts generally scouted and trained the players to be a team better than the sum of its parts. A renewal of staff kept the ideas fresh. He had the luck on his side again to win the 2 Champions leagues we won.
All of the above is needed to be a good/great manager. You can see similarities with Klopp.