Just had a thought. I can't think of any GKs or wingers who became top managers. The only strikers I can think of were Keegan and of course SAF. Most seem to be CMs or defenders. Is this right or do I just have a bad memory?
Is there any correlation between a players position and becoming a good manager?
- Thread starter Physiocrat
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Rinus Michels *.
Clough was a striker too.
Cruyff wasn't exactly a "striker", or rather not exclusively one, but still.
Lobanovsky * was a striker (I think - someone may correct me here if I'm wrong).
Zagallo was a winger (not a typical one, granted).
Just off the top of my head.
* Michels, Lobanovsky and SAF don't look out of place in a possible top five list of managerial greats, really. In which case 3/5 would be strikers/forwards/attackers.
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Nuno of Wolves and Lopetegui of Sevilla used to be goalkeepers. Not much else out there that I can think of.
We can make a research rather than throwing opinions 
It helps when your role as a player has forced you to think about the game on and off the ball, which is partly why many central midfielders make it as managers. That area around the centre halves and central midfielders is really the nerve centre of the pitch, where players need to be tactically astute, defensively aware and commanding organisationally. All the types of experience that serve you well in management.
I'm certain if you crunched the numbers centre mids would be the most represented former position, center backs second and in distant last place would be goalkeepers. I couldn't name a notable former goalkeeper manager
Carlos Queiroz
Nope.
The best manager is just a Scottish average striker.
The best manager is just a Scottish average striker.
Oh, and Lattek was a striker too.
I forgot Clough was a striker and of course Zagallo was a winger. With wingers I was thinking of the more flamboyant ones like Garrincha and Best,
Shankly: midfielder
Paisley: midfielder
Stein: defender
Busby: midfielder/forward
Trappattoni: defender/defensive midfielder
Ancelotti: midfielder
Capello: midfielder
Happel: defender
Herrera: defender (no surprise there)
Maureen: translator
Sacchi: shoe salesman
Paisley: midfielder
Stein: defender
Busby: midfielder/forward
Trappattoni: defender/defensive midfielder
Ancelotti: midfielder
Capello: midfielder
Happel: defender
Herrera: defender (no surprise there)
Maureen: translator
Sacchi: shoe salesman
Yep - I would think that category is probably under-represented. Zagallo was extremely "tactically aware" as a winger - and more of a "side midfielder", really, decades before that became a thing.
Sarri - professional tobacco smoker
Dino Zoff was a good manager wasn't he? Zenga? Lev Yashin coached Russia iirc
Pep: midfielder
Klopp: defender (I think - he was pretty shite at any rate).
Conte: midfielder
Simeone: midfielder
Ole (ahem): striker (but also wide forward/winger/wide midfielder).
Klopp: defender (I think - he was pretty shite at any rate).
Conte: midfielder
Simeone: midfielder
Ole (ahem): striker (but also wide forward/winger/wide midfielder).
That's a terrific shout. What a great manager he was. Doesn't get talked about anywhere near as much as he should.
He managed Juve for a couple of years in an extremely competitive Serie A - and won the UEFA Cup with them. That's not too shabby, certainly. He can't be called anything beyond decent, though - I suppose - in the grand scheme of things.
An absolute legend. Short "peak" (as people like to say nowadays), but that Milan side he put together was immense.
This was FourFourTwo magazines top 100 managers of all time. Ignore the order for the purposes of this thread.
I can't be arsed to put all their positions in but I'm sure one of you fine people can so we can test this theory...
I can't be arsed to put all their positions in but I'm sure one of you fine people can so we can test this theory...
100. Roy Hodgson
99. Fatih Terim
98. Vaclav Jezek
97. Roberto Mancini
96. Gerard Houllier
95. Hassan Shehata
94. Ferruccio Valcareggi
93. Antonio Conte
92. Juan Lopez Fontana
91. Raymond Goethals
90. Claudio Ranieri
89. Jupp Derwall
88. Stan Cullis
87. Mircea Lucescu
86. Vic Buckingham
85. Richard Moller Nielsen
84. Alberto Suppici
83. George Ramsay
82. Fulvio Bernardini
81. Silvia Neid
80. Sepp Herberger
79. Enzo Bearzot
78. Leo Beenhakker
77. Marcelo Bielsa
76. Guy Roux
75. Walter Smith
74. Tina Theune
73. Didier Deschamps
72. Dettmar Cramer
71. Howard Kendall
70. Carlos Bianchi
69. Hennes Weisweiler
68. Cesar Luis Menotti
67. Gavriil Kachalin
66. Joachim Low
65. Carlos Bilardo
64. Fernando Santos
63. Emerich Jenei
62. Stefan Kovacs
61. Nevio Scala
60. Tomislav Ivic
59. Vittoria Pozzo
58. Luis Carniglia
57. Frank Rijkaard
56. Don Revie
55. Carlos Alberto Parreira
54. Willie Maley
53. Franz Beckenbauer
52. Sven-Goran Eriksson
51. Jimmy Hogan
50. George Graham
49. Aime Jacquet
48. Luis Aragones
47. Otto Rehhagel
46. Bobby Robson
45. Bill Struth
44. Tele Santana
43. Diego Simeone
42. Albert Batteux
41. Rafa Benitez
40. Jill Ellis
39. Luiz Felipe Scolari
38. Udo Lattek
37. Guus Hiddink
36. Zinedine Zidane
35. Bill Nicholson
34. Viktor Maslov
33. Kenny Dalglish
32. Jupp Heynckes
31. Helmut Schon
30. Jock Stein
29. Jurgen Klopp
28. Jose Villalonga
27. Mario Zagallo
26. Alf Ramsey
25. Herbert Chapman
24. Fabio Capello
23. Arsene Wenger
22. Bob Paisley
21. Bela Guttmann
20. Louis van Gaal
19. Nereo Rocco
18. Carlo Ancelotti
17. Ottmar Hitzfeld
16. Miguel Munoz
15. Vicente del Bosque
14. Giovanni Trapattoni
13. Marcelo Lippi
12. Jose Mourinho
11. Brian Clough
10. Valeriy Lobanovskyi
9. Ernst Happel
8. Helenio Herrera
7. Matt Busby
6. Arrigo Sacchi
5. Pep Guardiola
4. Bill Shankly
3. Johan Cruyff
2. Rinus Michels
1. Alex Ferguson
99. Fatih Terim
98. Vaclav Jezek
97. Roberto Mancini
96. Gerard Houllier
95. Hassan Shehata
94. Ferruccio Valcareggi
93. Antonio Conte
92. Juan Lopez Fontana
91. Raymond Goethals
90. Claudio Ranieri
89. Jupp Derwall
88. Stan Cullis
87. Mircea Lucescu
86. Vic Buckingham
85. Richard Moller Nielsen
84. Alberto Suppici
83. George Ramsay
82. Fulvio Bernardini
81. Silvia Neid
80. Sepp Herberger
79. Enzo Bearzot
78. Leo Beenhakker
77. Marcelo Bielsa
76. Guy Roux
75. Walter Smith
74. Tina Theune
73. Didier Deschamps
72. Dettmar Cramer
71. Howard Kendall
70. Carlos Bianchi
69. Hennes Weisweiler
68. Cesar Luis Menotti
67. Gavriil Kachalin
66. Joachim Low
65. Carlos Bilardo
64. Fernando Santos
63. Emerich Jenei
62. Stefan Kovacs
61. Nevio Scala
60. Tomislav Ivic
59. Vittoria Pozzo
58. Luis Carniglia
57. Frank Rijkaard
56. Don Revie
55. Carlos Alberto Parreira
54. Willie Maley
53. Franz Beckenbauer
52. Sven-Goran Eriksson
51. Jimmy Hogan
50. George Graham
49. Aime Jacquet
48. Luis Aragones
47. Otto Rehhagel
46. Bobby Robson
45. Bill Struth
44. Tele Santana
43. Diego Simeone
42. Albert Batteux
41. Rafa Benitez
40. Jill Ellis
39. Luiz Felipe Scolari
38. Udo Lattek
37. Guus Hiddink
36. Zinedine Zidane
35. Bill Nicholson
34. Viktor Maslov
33. Kenny Dalglish
32. Jupp Heynckes
31. Helmut Schon
30. Jock Stein
29. Jurgen Klopp
28. Jose Villalonga
27. Mario Zagallo
26. Alf Ramsey
25. Herbert Chapman
24. Fabio Capello
23. Arsene Wenger
22. Bob Paisley
21. Bela Guttmann
20. Louis van Gaal
19. Nereo Rocco
18. Carlo Ancelotti
17. Ottmar Hitzfeld
16. Miguel Munoz
15. Vicente del Bosque
14. Giovanni Trapattoni
13. Marcelo Lippi
12. Jose Mourinho
11. Brian Clough
10. Valeriy Lobanovskyi
9. Ernst Happel
8. Helenio Herrera
7. Matt Busby
6. Arrigo Sacchi
5. Pep Guardiola
4. Bill Shankly
3. Johan Cruyff
2. Rinus Michels
1. Alex Ferguson
Average!! He was pretty good tbf, he got 24 in his debut season at Rangers before all the mistreatment for the Catholic wife stuff happened and top scored for them in a season where they narrowly missed out on the title to an all-time great Celtic side who were European Champions at the time
Some more:
Del Bosque: (defensive) midfielder
LVG: midfielder
Lippi: defender
Guttmann: defender
Chapman: forward
Heynckes: forward
Hiddink: midfielder
Aragones: (offensive) midfielder
Del Bosque: (defensive) midfielder
LVG: midfielder
Lippi: defender
Guttmann: defender
Chapman: forward
Heynckes: forward
Hiddink: midfielder
Aragones: (offensive) midfielder
Well, compared to the wealth of attacking talents Scotland has produced over the years (or used to produce, anyway), he certainly wasn't more than average.
fair enough I guess, he did also get a 31 league goal season for Dunfermline which are some great numbers that are hard to match without coming up with top Scottish footballing names but I know he was no McClair or Dalglish
What do you suggest? World class?
Yeah, "average" always sounds harsh. But being "average" compared to the likes of Dennis Law or T-shirt Man doesn't mean much. He was obviously a very good player, relatively speaking - not least bearing in mind that the Scottish domestic game in Fergie's time was miles above what it has been in recent years.
Very good
Recent (more or less) Caf favourites:
Tuchel: defender
Hasenhüttl: striker
Poch: defender
Rose: defender
Nagelsmann: defender
Bielsa (who's always been a hipster favourite): defender too (I think).
Bonus:
Well known "dinosaurs" still (more or less) in the game:
Big Sam: defender
Moyesie: defender
Woy: defender
Brucie: defender
Pulis: defender
Pretty clear pattern there, you'd think. But:
Warnock: winger
Tuchel: defender
Hasenhüttl: striker
Poch: defender
Rose: defender
Nagelsmann: defender
Bielsa (who's always been a hipster favourite): defender too (I think).
Bonus:
Well known "dinosaurs" still (more or less) in the game:
Big Sam: defender
Moyesie: defender
Woy: defender
Brucie: defender
Pulis: defender
Pretty clear pattern there, you'd think. But:
Warnock: winger
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Goalkeeper is the Drummer of the football world.
But really, looking at it deeply, the best songwriters are bassists.
Wow. I would never have thought he was a winger. He seemed like a hard man B2B to me.
Some other (not mentioned yet - by me) British managers of note:
Stan Cullis: defender
Bobby Robson: forward
Howard Kendall: midfielder
George Graham: forward/midfielder
Bill Nicholson: midfielder
ETA: can't leave out Alf Ramsey, of course, who was a defender (full-back).
Bonus - United managers:
Big Ron: midfielder
The Doc: midfielder
Frank O' Farrell: midfielder
Dave Sexton: forward
Stan Cullis: defender
Bobby Robson: forward
Howard Kendall: midfielder
George Graham: forward/midfielder
Bill Nicholson: midfielder
ETA: can't leave out Alf Ramsey, of course, who was a defender (full-back).
Bonus - United managers:
Big Ron: midfielder
The Doc: midfielder
Frank O' Farrell: midfielder
Dave Sexton: forward
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Oh, and Don Revie - let's not forget him: forward.
But more precisely a forward who dropped down - a bit of a "false nine" in modern terms, a rare example (back then) of English football actually learning something from continental developments, as Revie's role was very much inspired by that of the legendary Nandor Hidegkuti (who famously embarrassed England at Wembley in 1953 with his unconventional game).
But more precisely a forward who dropped down - a bit of a "false nine" in modern terms, a rare example (back then) of English football actually learning something from continental developments, as Revie's role was very much inspired by that of the legendary Nandor Hidegkuti (who famously embarrassed England at Wembley in 1953 with his unconventional game).
They're totally different jobs, so I'd be really surprised if any correlation once the sample size is increased enough.
Real question is why would there be any correlation ?
Real question is why would there be any correlation ?
Pippo Inzaghi just coached a team that romped Série B by 18 points.
It makes sense that a midfielder has a better understanding of what's going on around them, but then you have people like Paul Scholes and Graeme Souness to refute that assumption.
Defenders make good managers because they get to see the whole game play out before them, but they can also be guilty of thinking football is all about how hard you tackle (hello Tony Pulis)
I wonder if there is a correlation between how many goals an ex-striker-managed team score, or how few goals an ex-defender-managed team concede.
Defenders make good managers because they get to see the whole game play out before them, but they can also be guilty of thinking football is all about how hard you tackle (hello Tony Pulis)
I wonder if there is a correlation between how many goals an ex-striker-managed team score, or how few goals an ex-defender-managed team concede.
Majority of the best managers aren't that good as players.
^ I think this is really important because they can "emphatize" with players better (than the previous-good-players managers) from their experiences in the fringes therefore they tend to be better at players management, which helps them a lot in the field of management.
Interestingly their positions may likely define their football style.
SAF forward --> attacking philosophy
Pep midfielder -> control/tactical philosophy
etc etc
Like always, there are always few exceptions to the rule, those that doesn't follow the patterns/"formula".
To answer OP's question
= yes, just a bit, to a certain small degree there is good correlation but not strictly defined.
^ I think this is really important because they can "emphatize" with players better (than the previous-good-players managers) from their experiences in the fringes therefore they tend to be better at players management, which helps them a lot in the field of management.
Interestingly their positions may likely define their football style.
SAF forward --> attacking philosophy
Pep midfielder -> control/tactical philosophy
etc etc
Like always, there are always few exceptions to the rule, those that doesn't follow the patterns/"formula".
To answer OP's question= yes, just a bit, to a certain small degree there is good correlation but not strictly defined.
Zidane - attacking midfielder
Upcoming PL season, managers by position (as players):
Defenders: 55%
Midfielders: 30%
Strikers: 10%
GKs: 5%
NOTE: Maureen is counted as a midfielder - that was his position as a youth player.
Defenders: 55%
Midfielders: 30%
Strikers: 10%
GKs: 5%
NOTE: Maureen is counted as a midfielder - that was his position as a youth player.
Steve Coppell was a winger who turned into a pretty good manager. Charlie Mitten had a period in the 1950's at Fulham too.
Gordon Strachan was probably more of a wide midfielder/winger but was rated as a good manager.
It's also no surprise with low numbers. A goalkeeper only takes .9% of the team...two wingers 18% and a lone striker .9%
So 60% of every team are made up of the other two roles. You will therefore get a higher proportion.
Gordon Strachan was probably more of a wide midfielder/winger but was rated as a good manager.
It's also no surprise with low numbers. A goalkeeper only takes .9% of the team...two wingers 18% and a lone striker .9%
So 60% of every team are made up of the other two roles. You will therefore get a higher proportion.
True, although I think it would be more nuanced in that it's how players carried out their role on the park. Good examples would be the two central midfielders Guardiola and Simeone. Pep was a deep-lying playmaker whose game was about pinging passes out to the flanks from the base of midfield. He had a flaky physique and preferred to dominate midfield through what he did with the ball than without. You can see those aspects translate to his tactical principles as a manager. Meanwhile, Simeone was a hard-working, two-way, box-to-box midfielder. He was decent on the ball, but was most renowned for his work off the ball, squeezing space in midfield, winning battles and covering gaps. Again all those principles have translated to his management of Atletico.
We can even see the same pattern amongst defenders, between the ball-playing defenders like Koeman, Lippi, Southgate or Beckenbauer who have crafted balanced and sometimes attack-minded teams, whereas a lot of your former big stoppers built teams more in their image as players (Bruce, McLeish, Allardyce, Pulis, etc).