Yes but that's not what this thread is about
Is top 4 enough this season?
- Thread starter pocco
- Start date
Well my point is that Ole has not been backed sufficiently for me to expect anymore than Top4 and it's not about any specific names or certain amount of money, it's about having a balanced squad
Getting 3rd last season was as good as anyone could have expected and Ole was failed in this window so we cant expect anymore again
It is, I started the thread. The question is, is simply achieving top 4 alone enough this season? Should we not have been expecting more progress? More consistency, better football etc etc.
Of course top four is the minimum. But that shouldn't be our ambition, not a Club of our size and scale.
It's a shame, and a sad, yet true reflection of Ole' management that we are already at the stage where we are asking this question, and that we are asking the question at all.
It's a shame, and a sad, yet true reflection of Ole' management that we are already at the stage where we are asking this question, and that we are asking the question at all.
Last season top 4 would have been great. With the way United was playing and our lack of substitutes who could make an impact was the main reason.
But this season, we should have tried to close the gap to Liverpool & City. Infact, we should have provided some competition to them. But, the way we has been playing top 4 seems hard (though achievable but need some sort of consistency). Ole had been given amble time and amble funds (200m+) to make changes. Though I agree we didn't sign a RW or left it too late to find Sancho alternatives.
But serious problem is the lack of any direction in our gameplay, that too after 100 games in charge, I don't find us improving much (only marginal). Ole's record is good when compared to Klopp. But there was significant improvement in the way Liverpool played then (we know a couple of transfers would improve their gameplay). But United don't have such tactics.
Enough is enough, change the coach. This is the ideal time, we got a 2 week break for new coach to implement his methods and our opponent after break is WB (less challenge).
Then again, knowing Ole & our board, we might win against Everton (countering provided they attack) and the inevitable will be prolonged (sacking ole after another month).
But this season, we should have tried to close the gap to Liverpool & City. Infact, we should have provided some competition to them. But, the way we has been playing top 4 seems hard (though achievable but need some sort of consistency). Ole had been given amble time and amble funds (200m+) to make changes. Though I agree we didn't sign a RW or left it too late to find Sancho alternatives.
But serious problem is the lack of any direction in our gameplay, that too after 100 games in charge, I don't find us improving much (only marginal). Ole's record is good when compared to Klopp. But there was significant improvement in the way Liverpool played then (we know a couple of transfers would improve their gameplay). But United don't have such tactics.
Enough is enough, change the coach. This is the ideal time, we got a 2 week break for new coach to implement his methods and our opponent after break is WB (less challenge).
Then again, knowing Ole & our board, we might win against Everton (countering provided they attack) and the inevitable will be prolonged (sacking ole after another month).
Fair enough!
I think they kind of go hand in hand, as in we are unlikely to achieve Top4 without some progress in style and consistency because there is more competition for a CL place this season than last.
Worth noting that we haven't qualified for the CL twice in a row since Fergie retired so achieving that would actually be progress, but our poor start means there is no room for more slip ups.
So if we play on the counter and sit 10 men behind the ball when not in possession, as we have done even against the likes of Brighton, and achieve top 4, you'd be happy? I think we've got a strong squad now with options on the bench that barely any other PL team can boast.
With that in mind, I'd want to see progress towards becoming a more dominant team with a bit less of a passive style of play. I expect to see better organisation of the team, a more solid defence and a free flowing attack. I expect to see the foundations of a team that can compete for trophies with perhaps just a bit more investment in certain positions. I think that's what other managers would achieve with this squad so that's what I expect Ole to do.
I think that's a fair assessment and despite you saying "regardless of league position" there are still people who kick against it. I guess that'll be the next excuse if he stays and manages only a measly 65-66 points finish but this time he gets nothing more than a midtable final position on the table. He got a good option for whenever Martial can't play, he got a more than decent LB so that we won't dread the time Shaw is sidelined for a long period of time, he got a very good midfielder and he also got two talented youngsters to work with. On top of that, it's his second full-season with his players, so he must have a better understanding regarding their strengths and weaknesses and where he wants the team as a whole to go from here. And what did you ask? 4 more wins in the league... from 66 to 80 points regardless of whether our competition beats us because of their spending or not. Apparently, you ask too much.
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We won't get anywhere near to top4 this season. Liverpool, Chelsea, City, Spurs, even Arsenal and Leicester are far ahead of us, then there's Wolves, Everton and us
The position is not enough. I think he underachieved last season in terms of points; during the first half of the season, our team only achieved a win rate of 30%, which was nowhere near good enough. He bought £130m worth of defenders and we couldn't defend during that period; you would expect after spending that much that we would be solid, but we conceded in every game between mid-September and the end of December. That is not just bad luck.
Solskjaer put us in a rut that season that we had to claw our way out of. We also benefited from a very forgiving league last season where many teams were not good enough, all of whom had mitigating circumstances (Chelsea - No transfer window & new manager; Arsenal - sacked manager; Tottenham - sacked manager).
I don't think 66 points was enough last season. I think that team should have done quite a lot better. I actually think it was possible to get 75-80 points last season; people have lowered their standards too much. In a very weak league, we should have been very comfortably top four, not scrapping it out to the last game.
My expectation this season is 80 points minimum; anything less is not good enough. City are not the team they were; you could see their drop off last season. They are still very good, but they are not unreachable anymore. Honestly, I think we should be challenging for second with the team we have, the amount spent, and the time Solskjaer has been given. Mourinho achieved it in less time and he was considered by people as a bad appointment.
Solskjaer put us in a rut that season that we had to claw our way out of. We also benefited from a very forgiving league last season where many teams were not good enough, all of whom had mitigating circumstances (Chelsea - No transfer window & new manager; Arsenal - sacked manager; Tottenham - sacked manager).
I don't think 66 points was enough last season. I think that team should have done quite a lot better. I actually think it was possible to get 75-80 points last season; people have lowered their standards too much. In a very weak league, we should have been very comfortably top four, not scrapping it out to the last game.
My expectation this season is 80 points minimum; anything less is not good enough. City are not the team they were; you could see their drop off last season. They are still very good, but they are not unreachable anymore. Honestly, I think we should be challenging for second with the team we have, the amount spent, and the time Solskjaer has been given. Mourinho achieved it in less time and he was considered by people as a bad appointment.
I wanted to bump this and see what the thoughts are now. We achieve top 4, but keep playing the same inconsistent, uninspiring football in the second half of the season. Is that good enough? Or should we be expecting improvement in terms of performance, tactics, attacking play etc?
Basically, the same question i originally asked that many misunderstood.
Basically, the same question i originally asked that many misunderstood.
Considering the stellar transfer window we had to improve on last season 3rd place finish, we should be champions. Anything less and you should be sacked.
Never.
Must be many more overall improvements from last season.
19/20
Must be many more overall improvements from last season.
19/20
- 3rd place
- semi-finals in 2 or was it 3 cups competitions.
- shit football
It's not all about the final league position or if we grind out a trophy. I'm more concerned about seeing team progression on the pitch and a reason to be optimistic about future seasons and thinking we'll have a chance at the title soon enough. That's not going to happen with Ole.
Anyway, we aren't getting top 4 this year. Liverpool/City will be in it, Chelsea have found some consistency/solidified the defence and Mendy looks decent enough, and then 2nd year Mourinho has Kane and Son in the form of their lives and looking like serious competitors for trophies. That's 4 teams who at the moment look like title contenders. Looking like we might put up a top 4 fight at best won't actually lead to a top 4 fight when the 4 above will fight for the title. We're firmly outside that group, or at least in terms of performances. I'm sure it'll show in time with points, but it's a weird season and Bruno/Rashford are terrific players so who knows.
Anyway, we aren't getting top 4 this year. Liverpool/City will be in it, Chelsea have found some consistency/solidified the defence and Mendy looks decent enough, and then 2nd year Mourinho has Kane and Son in the form of their lives and looking like serious competitors for trophies. That's 4 teams who at the moment look like title contenders. Looking like we might put up a top 4 fight at best won't actually lead to a top 4 fight when the 4 above will fight for the title. We're firmly outside that group, or at least in terms of performances. I'm sure it'll show in time with points, but it's a weird season and Bruno/Rashford are terrific players so who knows.
It shouldnt be, but lets be honest thats as far as our board ambitions go. For Ole is enough, for the fans shouldn't be.
Fourth should never be enough.
Not unless there's a significant increase in points from last season. Say we finish fourth but on 75+ points (which would be identical to Liverpool in 16/17 and 17/18), and are within touching distance of the teams ahead. That's obviously a better result than 66 points in third but 15 points off second and 33 off first. Would at least indicate a bit of progress.
Or if we finish in the top four while also winning the FA cup or the Europa League. That would be reasonable grounds for not turfing the manager out.
Accepting anything less is accepting the club becoming a non entity with less ambition than Everton and Wolves.
Not unless there's a significant increase in points from last season. Say we finish fourth but on 75+ points (which would be identical to Liverpool in 16/17 and 17/18), and are within touching distance of the teams ahead. That's obviously a better result than 66 points in third but 15 points off second and 33 off first. Would at least indicate a bit of progress.
Or if we finish in the top four while also winning the FA cup or the Europa League. That would be reasonable grounds for not turfing the manager out.
Accepting anything less is accepting the club becoming a non entity with less ambition than Everton and Wolves.
Was 4th enough in LVG or Jose's second season? When will this façade of progress wear off and people realise Ole is just the beneficiary of kid glove standards
Absolutely spot on there needs to be more ruthlessness in our fanbase
The kind of team.we have with a competent manager we should really be competing for the title. I seriously think a competent manager can still win this team the title from current position. But it is not Ole. With Ole top 4 looks bleak. This team on paper is as good or even better in many areas from United of 09 to 13.
We will make top 4 but with Bruno in the form of his life if we had any sort of organisational drive we’d be pushing hard to capitalise and win back the league with a talented and happy squad but no it’s another season of shite Pogba drama, no right winger, hanging our hopes on Mason or Dan James last year. We are having a laugh if we think any manager is going to win pretty with that. this is our level, same as last year. EL/fight for top 4. Sucks but it’s true.
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Top 4 means feck all if you're just gonna get dumped out of the group stage. The point of being in the CL should be to compete not do an arsenal.
It's the least we can ask for. We've failed to get champions league qualification two consecutive times since Fergie if I recall. One thing I would say is If we end up outside top 4 we've not made any progress
At the beginning of the season I thought it was. However, with yesterday's result & our inconsistencies in performance I feel it should not be. The fact that we are just 5 points off the top with a game in hand despite largely poor performances shows there is potential in the side to do so much better. At the end of the day, we as Man United are not here just to make up the numbers, that should never be our ambition. So if our performances don't improve and we don't look like becoming a side that can challenge for trophies then doesn't matter if we scrape our way into the top 4.
Yeah there is but under another manager
We've become Arsenal. 
Top 4 and I have no doubt he keeps his job and we continue this same cycle under Ole. We know he isn’t good enough but club isn’t proactive enough to do anything about it.
We’ve seen what Ole can do now, it’s not good enough, it’s not going to miraculously get better and he has to be gone by next season if we don’t want to sleepwalk through a few more season.
We’ve seen what Ole can do now, it’s not good enough, it’s not going to miraculously get better and he has to be gone by next season if we don’t want to sleepwalk through a few more season.
We give up on Europe, so we can focus on Top 4 finish, so we qualify for Champions League, just to give up on it, because a Top 4 finish is important, because it would give us Champions League next season etc. etc. etc.
After last season ended, this year a top 4 was bare minimum and I wanted us to win a cup to improve morale and set the ground for future title challenge.
But now I just pray we get in top 4 somehow. Liv and City will be guaranteed top spots. So I expect us to compete with Spurs and Chelsea and with our current state I think that's hard. Even Leicester might challenge top 4 better than us.
I know we are just 5 points off the top with a game in hand, but it's the way we play that's alarming. Don't expect opponents to waste chances like West Ham did. We are screwed if we didn't improve and I honestly believe Ole is not the man for the task.
But now I just pray we get in top 4 somehow. Liv and City will be guaranteed top spots. So I expect us to compete with Spurs and Chelsea and with our current state I think that's hard. Even Leicester might challenge top 4 better than us.
I know we are just 5 points off the top with a game in hand, but it's the way we play that's alarming. Don't expect opponents to waste chances like West Ham did. We are screwed if we didn't improve and I honestly believe Ole is not the man for the task.