No worries, wondering myself.
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Just to add to the Suarez debate.. some footage from the Copa America (he was electric - in a side which was very narrow).
Isotope VS Raees/Invictus - NT peak draft
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Just to add to the Suarez debate.. some footage from the Copa America (he was electric - in a side which was very narrow).
Happy to see @Invictus back in the business, involved in the discussions related to a game I mean.
The fundamental problem is given the bedlam with Schuster/Djalma, Angloma's single start is a no-go (he even got subbed ffs
).Add to that Iso not picking 10 AMs for a change and getting Netto, Davids and Junior instead (and Tarantini).
One of those invariably ends up out of his tourno position. Netto at least is known to have played on the right. That said, I did mention to Iso that given Junior is right-footed and Netto left-footed IRL you would probably switch Junior right... but then it would be a glaring issue even for scanvoters.
At the end I guess he just decided to avoid the aggro and play Baggio instead.
Funny, while fact-checking Angloma I bumped into someone else who would work great in that Argie 86 RM role: Karembeu.
Think Maradona 86 is getting underrated here. He was pretty much an one man team and has the most dominant NT performance in this draft. Aided by a roaming Baggio, he'll cause lots of trouble.
Yes, he'd be trouble in most setups if you don't field anyone who'd positively get in his way.
But with '86 Diego you have a stellar opportunity to simply use that Argentina blueprint - and add upgrades on the original cast all over the pitch.
This seems a bit messy to me, neither fowl nor fish.
Agreed. Robben pooped up across the entire width of the pitch in that WC and this set up seems to give him the platform to recreate that menace, with the counter-attacking strategy and two attacking partners who share that propensity to alternate positions and counter at speed.
Also important to note that all of our front three played and starred in very narrow set ups in which they all were required to do heavy lifting and drag what were pretty defensively set teams into the latter stages of major tournaments.
Suarez had the likes of Cavani as a wideman, here he has Robben, Brehme and Eusebio to help create spaces for him and me personally think he was downright electric in 2011, pre the injury he suffered to his knees in 2014.. his dribbling at the Copa and his pace was absolutely top notch. He's a wiser striker now, but back then he was so aggressive and had come off a great World Cup in 2010.
Robben played in a very defensive 532 set up where Daley Blind was their attacking wing back. As good as his crossing ability is, as United fans we are witness to the fact Blind doesn't really stretch a side with his lung busting runs from deep and is slow.. he's so far away from Brehme it is untrue and yet here Robben has an amazing platform to perform here.
I think me and Invictus can take some blame for how we presented the team on paper but in reality as a counter attacking unit and taking international peaks into account I think it was be a cohesive and devastating trio up front and with someone like Zizinho, Tigana and Brehme joining in when transitioning from defence to attack.. it could be electric.
Yeah but he's also up against Varela who arguably has the most dominant peak performance for a DM in this draft. I also think psychologically it is a brutal encounter for a 10 to face Varela at his peak who has that South American know how and the gritty determination to do what may to get the job done here.
Maradona was man marked by Matthaus in the final, who did okay but I wouldn't say man marking was his speciality. He's more a B2B.
I reckon Varela would be better equipped in 1950 form to give Diego the duel of his life and try and limit his influence as much as possible.
I dunno, I thought the formation graphic got the message across pretty well. As regards the rest of the team Brehme is a brilliant fit for the tactic. The only one that looks somewhat out of place to me is Zizinho, but that's more because I don't really associate Brazilians of his era and ilk with that type of counter-attacking set up than a refelction on his skill set.
I agree. Zizinho is placed in front of Tigana and far ahead of Varela so it is clear he's somewhat of an inside right. It looks weird however with the front line inside the box while the defense and midfield are positioned in their "defensive roles" of a deep line. While the three attackers are just around the opponents box.
I'll try and get some gifs of why I thought Zizinho was perfect for the role. Bear with me.
In terms of not having width I think Zizinho would be a great choice here. People are a bit put off by how far forward that front three is positioned which makes Zizinho look like part of the deep midfield while I think the intention is for him to be an inside right? As he is positioned ahead of Varela and Tigana?
Ideally he would want a right winger providing the width and stretching the defense for him to play at his best. Then he can drive towards the defense and be a menace with his dribbling and drive.
But still in terms of a midfielder who has the dribbling to get past players he's a good choice.
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MASTER ZIZA AT HIS BEST..
THROUGH THE LEGS ASSIST INSIDE THE BOX...
BRAZIL WIN THE BALL AND ZIZA COUNTERS AT PACE FROM DEEP WITHIN HIS OWN HALF
BRAZIL WIN BALL AND ZIZA DICTATES PLAY, SLALOMING AWAY IN CENTRE OF MIDFIELD
ZIZA SHOWS HIS GOALSCORING NOUS ON EDGE OF BOX, ARRIVING LATE (DISALLOWED)
ON THE COUNTER, FROM WIDE POSITION - ZIZA PUTS THEM TO THE SWORD WITH CLINICAL FINISH
THROUGH THE LEGS ASSIST INSIDE THE BOX...
BRAZIL WIN THE BALL AND ZIZA COUNTERS AT PACE FROM DEEP WITHIN HIS OWN HALF
BRAZIL WIN BALL AND ZIZA DICTATES PLAY, SLALOMING AWAY IN CENTRE OF MIDFIELD
ZIZA SHOWS HIS GOALSCORING NOUS ON EDGE OF BOX, ARRIVING LATE (DISALLOWED)
ON THE COUNTER, FROM WIDE POSITION - ZIZA PUTS THEM TO THE SWORD WITH CLINICAL FINISH
Brazil from 1950 was actually more direct than their successors in 1958, due to the presence of the likes of Didi who slowed down the tempo, and Pele who then became the icon of the side, also liked to play at a slightly slower tempo and almost play with their opponents. Garrincha was different, someone who liked to go for the opponent but obviously when he was in the mood too... he would twist opponents this way and that, time and time again as is the Brazilian way.
The 1950 side was built around a pretty direct striker in Ademir, and if you look across their performances vs likes of Sweden and this Yugoslavia game, you do see that a lot of the Brazilian goals seem to be one touch, getting long shots off, crosses, everything is done at speed and they don't really faf around with possession play. Also the gifs, highlight that Zizinho was at his best with space to drive into, which our set up allows him to do perfectly.
What is key though is that when he has the ball, any one of Suarez/Robben/Eusebio.. need to hug the touchline, so that it allows him to come infield when he wants. We won't be relying solely on Ziza for width as this isn't a true reflection of his style of play and will be limiting his effectiveness in midfield.
Yeah, the front three is positioned a touch too forward for my liking but I think the gist of the side and how we want to play is relatively clear. Zizinho's selling point is that he very much liked to get involved in midfield and pick up the ball deep, but he also liked stretching opponents, and driving at them with speed. It makes him a unique player and I personally think a counter-attack set up suits a world class transitional player like him very well as it plays to his dual strengths of being able to defend and attack.. whereas in a tiki taka style possession system, you just get his creative abilities but he'd have less space to drive into.
I think those are all fair comments and something that could work albeit a bit harder to execute than your regular winger/full back offering width.
@Raees Something is not right here. You have defensive overkill on your right, while Baggio is on your left, where Brehme and Tigana are looking to go forward. Won't this cause problems?
Good job for the gifs Invictus/Raees.
Unfortunately, Isotope isn't available.
Unfortunately, Isotope isn't available.
Hey mate, not sure if you've ever posted in other draft threads before but glad to see a new face.
No because Tigana is rated as one of the best defensive midfielders of all time in his own right he just also happens to be one of the great B2B midfielders as well.. so defensively he won't be found wanting here and in all fairness with that front 4, we don't need him to over commit going forwards on that side. He's more a facilitator for Zizinho and more likely to be providing a stable base alongside Varela.
Brehme is an absolute beast and the best full back in the draft in the international arena.. majestic going forwards and backwards. Usually it would be a deception to say I expect my full back to go forwards and get back with equal aplomb but if there is anyone who can justify that expectation it would be Brehme 90.
Look at the way Valencia is used for United.. does he get exposed defensively even though we put so much burden on him going forwards? No because he has amazing endurance and pitch coverage. Plus the team is set up to ensure he is never caught out of position and remember Brehme is at his peak and a legendary full back who is thrice the player Valencia was in that position and he has the likes of Desailly, Tigana around him and he also has Robben in front of him which means he doesn't even need to be as gung ho going forwards as he'd be expected to in a 3-5-2.
Hope that helps?
It's a shame, he should have let us know if he was busy? Hope he's alright.
That doesn't look like our Copa 11 XI.Something like that?
Tabárez' default formation is a 4-3-3 like that. In game, if he needed more men in midfield he pulled Cavani back to RM and we went 4-4-2. If we needed more men in defence he would pull back Pereira to LB and go 5-3-2 or 5-4-1.
In any of those, Suárez was always upfront as part of 3, 2 or 1. Each setup had different requirements of course, so yeah, he wasn't today's Barca CF. I think the frontline is better off with 2011 Suárez myself.
Tabárez is very creative. I understand he tried many tactical systems in 2011 like this one with Gonzalez or Cavani on the right.
The difference between playing González or Cavani was down to which switch was more likely.Tabárez is very creative. I understand he tried many tactical systems in 2011 like this one with Gonzalez or Cavani on the right.
With González he would switch back and forth between 5-3-2 and the 4-4-2 above. Palito Pereira would switch to LWB and leave a defensive trio with Cáceres-Godín and Lugano. He would prefer that against Argentina-Brazil-Chile.
With Cavani we would be switching from 4-4-2 to 4-3-3 and back against the other teams.
The blueprint is the 4-3-3 but those two variants (and players adapting to them) is drilled from U17 through to the NT. Players get picked for the NT process based on their ability to fit and adapt, not individual genius/talent.
It has its detractors, but the logic is as a 3M country we will never have an All Star XI of the individual quality Brazil, Argentina, Mexico or Colombia could produce (let alone European sides) so the emphasis is on the system and how it morphs based on what the different moments of a game require.
It was an ideal setup for Diego and 2011 was great to watch because the same XI just kept changing formation like Rohrshach's mask. We have struggled to find a midfield playmaker since, so it looks just like a bunch of water carriers plus Suárez-Cavani these days.
