Israel - Palestine Discussion

neverdie

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The slight decline in US support as suggested in one of your links could simply be anti-Trump sentiment creeping into small segments of the public. A vast majority of people in the US neither neither know about or care about the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. Some of the numbers may also be reflective of a bit of organic drift in American society gradually becoming a bit less homogenous and more multicultural, which is going to cause variances in public attitudes towards on range of social and political issues. None of this will change US policy and so it won't in any way affect Israel or the Palestinians.
I agree with the part in bold, but I'd add a couple of points. Not knowing the ins and outs of an issue is common practice in representative democracy. I'd bet more people have a grasp on Israel-Palestine than the intricacies of the national deficit. People vote based on their preferred interest which is typically divested of specialist knowledge. The point is that they want people (specialists) to act on their behalf to attain "simple" goals. The legislative pressure might not be there yet but it will always be a cumulative effect.

Gallop said:
Preferred U.S. Pressure to Resolve Palestinian-Israeli Conflict

In order to resolve the Palestinian-Israeli conflict, do you think the United States should put more pressure on the Palestinians to make the necessary compromises (or) put more pressure on the Israelis to make the necessary compromises]?
20072008201320182021
%%%%%
More pressure on the Palestinians3938485044
More pressure on the Israelis3025252734


In 2013 (the last "war") 48% of Americans wanted more pressure on Palestinians as a solution to the Palestinian-Israeli conflict. In 2018 (after Israel sniping Gazans on their freedom march) that number rose to 50%. Even before the events of May '21, that number had fallen to 44% whereas those wanting more pressure applied to Israel rose to its highest (34% and a slight majority of 53% among Democrats).

No one's expecting an immediate change in US policy but if variances in public attitudes shift the balance in favour of the Palestinians (in the sense of a sizeable minority/majority advocating for US pressure on Israel to resolve the situation), then this will, over time, lead to policy changes. If it doesn't translate to policy changes then the point is surely that the US electorate has no control over policy regardless of their vote, which as we've seen with Trump, simply isn't true.

I'll wait a while for all of these metrics to take account of the latest events as it's still too soon to tell much of anything in concrete terms.
 

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I'm characterizing "internal dissent" in terms of Israel's political class acknowledging an internal state of apartheid.

https://www.sapeople.com/2021/06/08/israeli-ambassadors-to-south-africa-say-its-apartheid/

The inclusion of the minor Arab parties is interesting but I'm more concerned with Israeli attitudes about Israeli policy, and even then from within a specific class. More research needed here but time will tell.
While it may be interesting to see a few more heads acknowledging the apartheid analogy, I’d say the more significant matter is that probably a higher proportion of Israelis than ever are ideologically committed to the maintenance and expansion of Israeli authority over the West Bank (I don’t actually have any stats to back this claim up, I’m basing it on assumptions drawn from recent election results). For those not so ideologically inclined (still a majority I’d guess), the examples of Lebanon and Gaza ensure that a unilateral withdrawal is out of the question. So despite obvious divisions in Israeli society, and absent any genuine peace process, continuing the unequal occupation remains a broad consensus. I don’t see a rather narrow breaking of the taboo around “apartheid” altering this.

neverdie said:
Both those articles confirm that an overwhelming majority of Americans continue to sympathize with the Israelis in favor of the Palestinians. Neither mentions anything about Evangelicals as the only remaining support base for Israel in the US.

As I mentioned, the Netanyahu years did some damage to the bipartisan consensus around support Israel But it’s unclear if this damage cannot be fixed, or if not, how bad the damage actually is.

neverdie said:
You don't find large media companies mentioning the terms "Israel" and "apartheid" significant? I don't recall that being common practice in the past. We can measure its significance by a combination of qualitative and quantitative methods. It would require research analysis but it isn't overly difficult to produce a study of the media landscape that tries to comprehend shifts in framing when dealing with Israel/Palestine (the shift in frame, such as the more explicit acknowledgement of asymmetry, hints at a shift in opinion). Will have to wait for such studies to take account of the latest hostilities but my guess is the shift is significant.
I don’t find it particularly significant unless accompanied by concrete developments. I also believe that, however fitting “apartheid” might be as a conceptualization of the nature of Israeli authority over the Palestinians, it is a bit useless as a tool by which to think about realistic resolutions and change. It’s not a magic word destined to shift the course of the conflict. Anyone expecting the experience of South Africa to be somehow replicated in Israel as the term gains more and more acceptance is likely to be disappointed IMO.

neverdie said:
]Indexes of public opinion as mined through public discourse are the only way to go insofar as we're talking about public opinion and attitudes. Israel cultivating economic ties with Sudan, China, and whoever else, is not indicative of public opinion but rather indicates economic pragmatism. Was the EU as blatantly pro-Israel as you suggest? They typically are, but I think that might require more analysis. We must also remember that China forced that UN Security Council maneuver which hints at economic, strategic, political, and cultural interests not being monolithic in Chinese terms.
I thought we were talking about “public opinion opinion and attitudes” in terms of the changes they are supposed to produce. Otherwise, what’s the point right? I would argue that, whatever the evolution of attitudes towards Israel held by the Western left, as things stand they appear to be rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things, which would include the continuing strengthening of Israel’s diplomatic ties globally, i.e. the type of stuff that works to counter-balance whatever pressure Israel might feel as a result of the type of public attitudes you have in mind. In fact I’d argue that in recent years this balance is weighed quite heavily in Israel’s favor.

As for the EU, see - https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/05/20/how-europe-became-pro-israel/

neverdie said:
I'd be interested to see your analysis of Israel's position as being more solid now than it was prior to May of this year, though.
I’d say it’s far too soon to draw any firm conclusions from what happened in May. Issues such as East Jerusalem evictions and Gaza flare-ups have been ongoing for years. What was new in May for me was the dynamic among Israeli-Palestinians. As with the political legitimization of the Arab parties, this may have unforeseen consequences, but being unforeseen, we can’t know for certain how it’ll impact on developments.
 

Roane

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While it may be interesting to see a few more heads acknowledging the apartheid analogy, I’d say the more significant matter is that probably a higher proportion of Israelis than ever are ideologically committed to the maintenance and expansion of Israeli authority over the West Bank (I don’t actually have any stats to back this claim up, I’m basing it on assumptions drawn from recent election results). For those not so ideologically inclined (still a majority I’d guess), the examples of Lebanon and Gaza ensure that a unilateral withdrawal is out of the question. So despite obvious divisions in Israeli society, and absent any genuine peace process, continuing the unequal occupation remains a broad consensus. I don’t see a rather narrow breaking of the taboo around “apartheid” altering this.



Both those articles confirm that an overwhelming majority of Americans continue to sympathize with the Israelis in favor of the Palestinians. Neither mentions anything about Evangelicals as the only remaining support base for Israel in the US.

As I mentioned, the Netanyahu years did some damage to the bipartisan consensus around support Israel But it’s unclear if this damage cannot be fixed, or if not, how bad the damage actually is.



I don’t find it particularly significant unless accompanied by concrete developments. I also believe that, however fitting “apartheid” might be as a conceptualization of the nature of Israeli authority over the Palestinians, it is a bit useless as a tool by which to think about realistic resolutions and change. It’s not a magic word destined to shift the course of the conflict. Anyone expecting the experience of South Africa to be somehow replicated in Israel as the term gains more and more acceptance is likely to be disappointed IMO.



I thought we were talking about “public opinion opinion and attitudes” in terms of the changes they are supposed to produce. Otherwise, what’s the point right? I would argue that, whatever the evolution of attitudes towards Israel held by the Western left, as things stand they appear to be rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things, which would include the continuing strengthening of Israel’s diplomatic ties globally, i.e. the type of stuff that works to counter-balance whatever pressure Israel might feel as a result of the type of public attitudes you have in mind. In fact I’d argue that in recent years this balance is weighed quite heavily in Israel’s favor.

As for the EU, see - https://foreignpolicy.com/2021/05/20/how-europe-became-pro-israel/



I’d say it’s far too soon to draw any firm conclusions from what happened in May. Issues such as East Jerusalem evictions and Gaza flare-ups have been ongoing for years. What was new in May for me was the dynamic among Israeli-Palestinians. As with the political legitimization of the Arab parties, this may have unforeseen consequences, but being unforeseen, we can’t know for certain how it’ll impact on developments.
I think there has been a changing of attitudes somewhat on the Palestinian situation but I kind of agree with you too.

I personally think the shift hasn't been where it matters, as you've kind of suggested. However I think the advent of social media has had an impact on people on the ground.

Hard to say if this will ultimately make a difference but I think it may.

What I mean by this is that local populations in even the middle east were almost distanced by the ruling authority in certain places from what was happening. The media had their own narratives, again for and against depending where you are in the world and to a degree it was "normal" to hear about what was happening but people as a while weren't that invested. Now I think people are taking more notice and I think that is largely down to social media.

Like you I don't have stats to back this more what I see. So instances like where if there was a protest (against anything really) you would see the odd Palestinian flag raised by mainly Palestinians. I've even witnessed Palestinians with flags being spoken to about this not being the place or it's not about a specific cause today etc. Now I see the Palestinians being joined in raising the flag and more of a questioning for leaders.

Pressure on the leaders may be something which touches a nerve, certainly around election times etc.

Even locally an MP who was filmed at a friend's of Israel meeting offering full support to the Israeli authority has been pressured into writing to the PM and raising it in parliament. He has a large Muslim following and although half hearted he has done so.

Certainly in Pakistan and places it's reached a higher profile than previously.

Whether it will make a difference I don't know. But popular support can change things
 

neverdie

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While it may be interesting to see a few more heads acknowledging the apartheid analogy, I’d say the more significant matter is that probably a higher proportion of Israelis than ever are ideologically committed to the maintenance and expansion of Israeli authority over the West Bank (I don’t actually have any stats to back this claim up, I’m basing it on assumptions drawn from recent election results). For those not so ideologically inclined (still a majority I’d guess), the examples of Lebanon and Gaza ensure that a unilateral withdrawal is out of the question. So despite obvious divisions in Israeli society, and absent any genuine peace process, continuing the unequal occupation remains a broad consensus. I don’t see a rather narrow breaking of the taboo around “apartheid” altering this.
I agree with you here. When I say I'm interested in how Israelis deal with Israeli occupation of Gaza and increased encroachment within the WB, I don't mean to imply that there's going to be, or is, an enormous shift across far right to left. What I'm getting at has more to do with any and all hints of pragmatism from within the right wing (not the ideologically driven settlers, as they won't alter their course, but the politicians who pander to them).


Both those articles confirm that an overwhelming majority of Americans continue to sympathize with the Israelis in favor of the Palestinians. Neither mentions anything about Evangelicals as the only remaining support base for Israel in the US.

As I mentioned, the Netanyahu years did some damage to the bipartisan consensus around support Israel But it’s unclear if this damage cannot be fixed, or if not, how bad the damage actually is.
Yes, the majority of Americans do sympathize with Israel but interestingly in terms of pure "sympathy" the balance actually tips in favour of Palestinians. There's talk in Israeli newspapers about Gallup's methods for framing questions and so on but the point here is that support for Palestine has been increasing in non-religious and religious-Democratic circles (excluding Jewish-Democrats).

Gallup said:
Republicans favor Israel over the Palestinians by an 80% to 10% margin, while Democrats are much more evenly divided -- 43% sympathetic to Israel, 38% to Palestinians.
Gallup did an interesting analysis on the issue but the takeaway is that religion plays the decisive factor in people's support for Israel with the Evangelical right wing being by far the most ideologically committed supporters of Israel:



Sympathy for Israel by Party and Religious Identity, 2018-2021

Percent of Americans who sympathize more with Israel than the Palestinians:

ProtestantCatholicJewish*None
%%%%
Republicans/leaners83799467
Democrats/leaners49428733

The Evangelical-Republican is as supportive of Israel as the Jewish-Democrat. Notice that across the board support for Israel among Democrats never cracks 50% except in Jewish-Democrats which is to be expected. Gallup doesn't have enough data on Muslims to make a comparison but the general picture is 90% or more tend to favour Palestine which is again no surprise.

As Raoul said, this has to do with shifting demographics and other factors within American politics. It isn't just the "progressive" wing of the Democratic party either, it seems a pretty consistent trend across voters more broadly while that is mirrored inversely among Republicans whose support of Israel has continued to rise over the years (mostly a religious issue).

https://news.gallup.com/opinion/pol...mericans-religion-sympathies-middle-east.aspx


I don’t find it particularly significant unless accompanied by concrete developments. I also believe that, however fitting “apartheid” might be as a conceptualization of the nature of Israeli authority over the Palestinians, it is a bit useless as a tool by which to think about realistic resolutions and change. It’s not a magic word destined to shift the course of the conflict. Anyone expecting the experience of South Africa to be somehow replicated in Israel as the term gains more and more acceptance is likely to be disappointed IMO.
Again, the point is that opinion only translates into "concrete developments" (in legislative terms) from within a cumulative framework. I disagree with you on the acceptance of apartheid as a reality of Israeli state functioning. If every television broadcast about Israel is prefixed by "apartheid", it would have enormous effects. As you yourself note, change will not emerge from Israel internally (you expect it to worsen in favour of the right), which means it has to come externally, also. This only happens through accurate reporting of the situation on the ground (apartheid), which can/does lead to international groups exerting pressure on their local representatives.


I would argue that, whatever the evolution of attitudes towards Israel held by the Western left, as things stand they appear to be rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things, which would include the continuing strengthening of Israel’s diplomatic ties globally, i.e. the type of stuff that works to counter-balance whatever pressure Israel might feel as a result of the type of public attitudes you have in mind.
I would disagree here and note the change in American attitudes as an example. The post I made in reply to Raoul has more links worth following but the above section of Gallup's most recent analysis on the issue suggests a drift toward sympathy and support for the Palestinians amongst the majority (sizable minority in some metrics) as of now. This doesn't follow a symmetrical decline in support for Israel, but hints at large portions of the American electorate advocating for pressure on both sides in a conditional sense which has not existed for a long time. So here we disagree but neither of us can say anything definitive because we're talking about "now" judged from the future. I would add, though, that South Africa had a history of cultivating diplomatic-economic ties globally pre-globalization and so I don't consider these things mutually exclusive.

I’d say it’s far too soon to draw any firm conclusions from what happened in May. Issues such as East Jerusalem evictions and Gaza flare-ups have been ongoing for years. What was new in May for me was the dynamic among Israeli-Palestinians. As with the political legitimization of the Arab parties, this may have unforeseen consequences, but being unforeseen, we can’t know for certain how it’ll impact on developments.
I agree. Although we can say that the situation will deteriorate and that Israeli expansion within the West Bank will be the cause. Anyone who has been following the news lately will already see hints of this.

https://zeenews.india.com/world/un-...-in-west-bank-and-east-jerusalem-2371681.html

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/2021...aflame-as-israeli-settlers-refuse-land-return

https://www.palestinechronicle.com/israeli-government-approves-31-new-settlement-zones-in-west-bank/

Settlement and annexation of land by Israel continues and enormous protests by Palestinians is the result. This will reach a tipping point very soon with the weakening of the PA in the WB (as you'll know, they're mostly seen as collaborators these days).

My overall argument is that opinion has been drifting away from Israel except in the most ideologically driven and weirdly reactionary quarters (fundamentalists and populists). It will take time before this can be "proven" decisively but the trend toward calamity as driven by Israeli actions within the WB convince me that it will continue and at a much faster, or exponential, pace. It's too early to tell, as you say, but that's my sense as of now.
 

The Corinthian

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Yair Lapid in UAE today - first official to visit since the normalisation of relations between Israel and the UAE.
 

neverdie

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Yair Lapid in UAE today - first official to visit since the normalisation of relations between Israel and the UAE.
Meanwhile. apartheid continues:

Israel demolished a Palestinian shop in the East Jerusalem neighborhood of Silwan on Tuesday, triggering scuffles between police and protesters who accused authorities of discriminatory enforcement of building permits in the holy city. Palestinians seek East Jerusalem, which Israel captured from Jordan in a 1967 war, for a future state. Israel deems all of Jerusalem its capital – a status not recognized internationally – and has encouraged Jewish settlement of predominantly Palestinian areas.
A bulldozer escorted by Israeli police flattened Harbi Rajabi's butchers shop in the neighborhood, which is overlooked by the Al-Aqsa Mosque, the third-holiest shrine in Islam built atop the holiest site in Judaism, and the most sensitive site in the Israeli-Palestinian conflict. The shop is one of at least eight properties that residents said were slated for demolition. The residents say many have been there for decades, even from before 1967. The authorities have earmarked the land for a park and say the shops and homes have been built illegally.

Mahmoud Basit who runs the butchers told Reuters that 14 family members depended on income from there. "We have no other way to support our families,” said Basit, who added he would have to look for new work from scratch. Deputy Jerusalem Mayor Arieh King said "around 20" buildings in Silwan – which Israel refers to by its Hebrew name Shiloach – had received demolition orders. Around another 60 buildings there were in violation of Israeli zoning laws, he told Reuters. Palestinians in Silwan say it is near-impossible to get building permits. They see the demolitions as designed to drive them from Jerusalem. Disputing this, King said the municipality had approved hundreds of new Palestinian homes in Silwan.

This is happening in East Jerusalem and so violates all norms of international law but corresponds to the norms of Israeli disregard for such law.
 

neverdie

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Israel’s war on facts and the infographic intifada:

The Israel Defense Forces spokesperson lied to international media two weeks ago. In what it later described as a mistake, the IDF announced – in English only – that it had begun a ground offensive in Gaza. The land invasion was imaginary, but it was part of a ploy to get Hamas fighters to go underground ahead of a very real aerial attack that night on Gaza’s system of subterranean tunnels. Though the IDF apologized, the incident was only one example of how the Israeli army weaponizes facts – especially in English – as part of its strategy.

Indeed, it seems that as Israel and Hamas keep fighting the same conflict again and again, the only battle being fought with any real passion is over facts.
What was once called hasbara or public diplomacy (or propaganda, depending on your perspective) now has a clear name in the post-Trump age: Disinformation. Enlisting the truth and weaponizing facts have long been staples of warfare – and are certainly nothing new in the context of Israel and its war against so-called Palestinian “delegitimization.” However, this round of fighting has brought both sides and their mouthpieces to new lows in terms of flagrant disregard for veracity.
While official Twitter and Facebook pages belonging to Israel spread blatantly one-sided information online in English in the form of memes and emojis that inspired John Oliver’s wrath, others just flatly pushed out fake news.

LISTEN: Israel’s goalless war on Gaza and what John Oliver got right

For example, Ofir Gendelman, Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s Arabic spokesperson, published a video purporting to show “evidence” of Hamas war crimes. The video, which shows rockets being fired from within a residential area in Gaza, was actually an old clip most likely filmed in either Iraq or Syria, an AFP fact-check revealed.
Netanyahu’s son, Yair Netanyahu, a known firebrand, also posted a video that turned out to be false. The younger Netanyahu posted a clip on Instagram showing “dead bodies,” purportedly of Gazans killed by Israel, suddenly springing back to life. Proof, he said, of how Hamas’ lies and what he termed “Pallywood.” However, the video most likely came from Egypt in 2014. The irony of using a fake video to prove the other side is lying was lost on the prime minister’s son, but it does provide a rich example for how factuality is abandoned in the war of information between Israel, Palestinians and those claiming to speak in their names.

The video, by the way, is still up on the younger Netanyahu’s account.
On the Palestinian side, resistance to Israel’s war of disinformation manifested as what can be termed as an infographic intifada – political memes and other visual attempts to counter the Israeli narrative with snappy and simplistic Instagram slideshows or decks.
Many of these infographics contained classic Palestinian talking points, while others veered into disinformation, if not actual propaganda for Hamas, the undemocratic ruler of Gaza which makes up only one half of the political parties within Palestinian politics.
The main image of this infographic resistance was the slideshow created by the Instagram page Key48 and shared by the likes of Bella Hadid and even the influential fashion page Diet Prada.
The image recasts the conflict in terms more palpable to young Americans, showing a young woman of color explaining the core issues of the conflict to her white female friend. However, alongside classic Palestinian talking points, the infographic actually puts forward clear falsehoods: For example, the claim that Palestine as such has always been a sovereign nation state is historically inaccurate regardless of your political sentiments, as is the claim that Israel expelled over 7 million Palestinians as part of the Nakba (the actual number is closer to 700,000).
It is unlikely that the operators of this page or those who shared the post have a full understanding of the conflict. However, it is important to note that spreading politically charged nonfactual claims only spurs nationalistic tension further. Politically, they may actually undermine the Palestinian Authority by enforcing the hardline, uncompromising and unrealistic positions used by Hamas in its internal battles against the PLO.
The biggest lie
Tellingly, Facebook set up a special command center to deal with "hate speech, threats of violence, incitement and graphic violence" around the conflict. The center is being manned by 80 native Hebrew and Arabic speakers – more than those used to fight coronavirus disinformation, which has been deemed a threat to public health.
Meanwhile, Israel has also made efforts to take down posts it saw as a threat to national security, asking Facebook to remove 600 posts and another 200 from Instagram. It is unclear how many of those requests were granted or for what reason Israel flagged those specific posts.
However, it is clear that disinformation was a key weapon in this round of fighting: Hamas, the watchdog Fake Reporter revealed, operated a network of over 200 accounts pretending to be Israelis. These accounts, which have also yet to be taken down, saw the purported Israelis lamenting about how bad life in Israel was due to the fighting and complaining that the IDF had lost control of the battle.
While a ceasefire has come into effect, these disinformation efforts continue: The Hamas network, it was revealed, was not intended to harm Israeli morale, but rather provide Hamas with screen captures its mouthpieces could share on social media to present the semblance of victory. Using fake accounts to support a fake victory is as ironic perhaps as the post by Yair Netanyahu.
While Facebook, Instagram and to some extent Twitter have methods to deal with such incidents, newer social networks, or at least those operating in a less public way, have turned into battlefields. On Telegram and WhatsApp, messaging services that host closed groups and whose content cannot be tracked, countless fake reports were spread about Jews and Arab mobs out for blood. Again, these baseless reports only helped stoke very real social tensions within Israel.
On Tiktok, videos of violence spread like wildfire. On Clubhouse, the audio-based social network, there were claims that groups hosting debates about Palestinians were rife with antisemitism. If Twitter can be trusted, there was even a rumor that Hamas’ Khaled Meshal was allowed to host a session on the app.
But perhaps the biggest lie of them all – the one posted by both sides and their proxies – is that this current round of fighting is between Israel and Palestine, and not between Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu and Hamas on the one hand, and those living under their reign of lies on the other. It’s not just the radicals on both sides we need to be wary of – it’s the liars.
 

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I really can't see how this article is groundbreaking. Every conflict swings on disinformation.
And using John 'shit Ben Elton' Oliver as any kind of measure is absurd.
You've uttered many Trump like sentences but this is your best Trumpism yet. :lol:
 

neverdie

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I really can't see how this article is groundbreaking. Every conflict swings on disinformation.
And using John 'shit Ben Elton' Oliver as any kind of measure is absurd.
It was written by journalists working for Haaretz and published by Haaretz. Whether it's groundbreaking or not is hardly relevant. It's newsworthy and I think that's why they reported it (it's also an evenly distributed analysis of each side's methods). They reference Oliver because he provoked a backlash from the Israeli commentariat, many members of which used phony propaganda to try and demean his points.
 

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Asking Hitler diehards to support their Zionism and "we can forget the rest of that history stuff"? The mind boggles, it truly does. :houllier:
 

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To be fair the news might have more to it. @Fearless are you aware of this story and what happened? What was the reason for digging up a baby's body and then leaving it dumped on the ground for hours?
 

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https://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/olympics/2021/08/04/israeli-gymast-not-jewish-enough-to-marry/

JERUSALEM — When gymnast Artem Dolgopyat stepped off the podium as only the second Israeli to win an Olympic gold medal, he triggered one of Israel’s many cultural tripwires: It quickly emerged that the country’s newest sports hero is banned from marrying his fiancee here because he is not considered Jewish enough by the rabbis who control Israel’s marriage law.


Immediately after Dolgopyat took top honors in the men’s floor exercise, his mother took the chance to complain that Israeli religious law is keeping her engaged 24-year-old son from tying the knot because only his father’s side of the family is Jewish.

Marriage law is tightly controlled by Israel’s Chief Rabbinate. And for generations, couples who are of mixed religions — or who are atheists, gay or inadequately Jewish — have been forced to marry outside the country.
 

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https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www....h-news/top-pro-israel-lawyer-who-23356143.amp

Teacher (Israeli) from a school in Ayrshire got caught doing the same thing, both GFI members...they really know no shame
How is this not a jailable offense? If someone was caught for spraying racist graffiti, it would be rightfully be labelled a hate crime. Yet, this prick is only facing a £500 fine for trying to stitch someone up for committing a hate crime, which can be up to 6 months in prison.