Jack Grealish

The Brown Bull

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Well that's just plain wrong. On the pitch, he's one of the best playmakers, ball carriers, and press resistant midfielders in the world. Mentally, he's as strong as you can get. A Birmingham fan literally ran onto the pitch and punched him. Jack's response? He scored the winner and acted like nothing happened in his post match interview; choosing to focus solely on the football. Then there's the bit about him singlehandedly keeping Villa up.
At Villa. Could he do it at United?
Doubt it.
 

sherrinford

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It is relevant if they are keeping a disgruntled player who may not be at his best.
How does that go then?

United; 'We want Grealish.'
Villa; '£80m.'
United; 'What! Nah, we can't pay more than £50.'
Villa; 'You paid £80m for Maguire and £50m for Wan Bissaka last year. Both are defenders, Jack is a creative attacking midfielder and was one of the best in the league last season.'
United: 'But we bought them to be starters, and we got Bruno for £50 so we won't be paying more for his backup.'

If Villa go to Grealish with that, you really see him kicking up a fuss at not getting the chance to go to a team that clearly doesn't want him that much?

He did it in the Championship. His success in the EPL was as a left-sided attacker. I don't see how bringing him as a Pogba replacement makes sense. He has nowhere near the passing range of the clear link guys you mentioned, especially when you are talking about arguably two of the best midfield passers of the past 30 years in Scholes and Xavi. Pogba is mostly used not only as the link but to sit back and hold with more defensive responsibilities to clean up for. My point is, why is Grealish the ideal link to play those roles. A lot of times our formation turned into a 4-2-3-1 essentially. If you are paying a fortune for him, atleast use him tactically in the way he's been used this year, which is as a left-sided attacker. If the option is buy Grealish as a replacement for Pogba's role or don't buy him, I wouldn't buy him. There are much more proven players at higher levels at that role if we are going to be throwing around 60m or so on a #8 midfielder.
He spent the vast majority of his time in the Premier League this past season operating from the left, yes, but that is not the only role he excels in. He is 24 and has been playing senior football for, what, six years? His versatility is well established and, given the season he's just had, there are no concerns about him playing at this level. If Ebereche Eze was to move to a Premier League club this off-season and similarly thrive playing off the left, there would be no doubting his ability to play as a no.10 in a top league, as it has already been shown that that is one his positions.

If anything, the consensus was that Grealish had had his best season to date when moved to, and then playing consistently as, the left-sided no.8 as opposed to being used as more of a no.10 or on the left wing. There is also the circumstances of the club to consider - Villa looking to gain promotion and having the onus on them to be proactive and win games is much closer to the situation he would find himself in were he to sign for United than battling relegation and being in a much more reactive side. His best in the former scenario has come from playing as a no.8.

I only mentioned Xavi and Scholes to illustrate the kind of positional freedom you get in that role. The particular style of the player isn't terribly important in that sense, with players of varying strengths and tendencies having operated in that area - Essien or Khedira, for example. Others who are comparable to Grealish in the sense that their game largely revolves around carrying the ball to evade pressure or progress the play would be Dembele or even Sissoko at Spurs, Wilshere, Rabiot or maybe Arthur Melo.

I wouldn't say Grealish was the ideal Pogba replacement so much as one of quite a few potential options. A Pogba replacement for me could either fit in as the no.8 next to a no.6(Matic) in a deep midfield pair in a 4-2-3-1, as the deeper of two no.8's (with/behind Fernandes) ahead of a no.6(Matic) in a 4-3-3 (a very minor tweak) or as one of two no.8's with equal license to attack ahead of that no.6.

It is obvious that you don't consider the latter an option and I agree that it would require a change to the team shape so is perhaps unrealistic. City have used a rather extreme example of this setup very successfully prior to Fernandinho being replaced, but Lazio and previously Leverkusen have used two attacking no.8's in a more regular way to good effect as well as Leicester and Real Madrid. If Solskjaer was inclined to use this shape he would likely be doing so now with Pogba clearly capable of playing with more freedom or responsibility for getting forward. We could, however, identify a particular player as a replacement who is stronger, or who you would only really want to play, higher than Pogba is now. Maddison, Milinkovic-Savic, Havertz, Brandt and Draxler are examples. Bernardo Silva and probably Foden too - unlikely targets but at least one of them will surely be disillusioned at not being seen as the David Silva replacement. Van de Beek also would really only excite me as a player with the freedom to 'go' - to get forward, identify spaces and interchange with teammates.

The former two shapes are virtually interchangeable - the typical difference between being a holder, an advanced midfielder or the link in between in a 4-2-3-1 compared to a 4-3-3 is negligible for the majority of players. Thiago, Alaba, Rabiot or Fabian Ruiz could be options here perhaps (though how likely is it any would want to come?).

Aouar and Luis Alberto would fit into any of those configurations, as would Grealish. I think with any of those three you would tweak the current shape so it was more of a 4-3-3 with the new addition as the deeper no.8 to maximise the use of the three players involved, something which you would not do with Thiago or Rabiot for me. Unsure on Alaba and Fabian Ruiz. Who else do you see as options? Who is the 'ideal' Pogba replacement?

I think its justifiable to bring him in at 55-60 mill. as a rotation option. We have all seen what happens when Bruno is playing all the minutes. If Grealish gets 30-40 minutes each game , Bruno will be so much more consistent.
I just can't see how - that's £55-60m that could be spent on a first choice pick.

The thought of De Gea, Lindelof, Wan Bissaka and Matic playing every minute is a far bigger concern.
 

jesperjaap

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At Villa. Could he do it at United?
Doubt it.

Since he hasnt played International football or at any other club than Villa, how can you even form an opinion of whether or not he can do it higher up or not as there is no evidence either way to go on.
 

jesperjaap

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Sure, but we don't have £300m to spend though.

I get the injures/dip in form and all the other variables but we won't be playing 3 games a week for prolonged period of time after a long break like we did now.

Also who's to say that Grealish would hit the ground running? In Villa he's the main man, everything goes through him, in UTD he won't have that status.
I know very rare, especially in the premiership but with the £80m fee, isnt there the possibility now they are in the premiership another season of adding players to the deal?

One player who I think is a transfer weapon for us is Dean Henderson. We want to loan him again, why not offer him to Villa for a season long loan next year....will probably get more practice there too.

Also Garner, Chong as possible loans?

Then we have the likes of Smalling, Jones, Lingard, Mata, Pereira....think there could be mutual interest in deals for a couple of those players
 

DannyDee

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He spent the vast majority of his time in the Premier League this past season operating from the left, yes, but that is not the only role he excels in. He is 24 and has been playing senior football for, what, six years? His versatility is well established and, given the season he's just had, there are no concerns about him playing at this level. If Ebereche Eze was to move to a Premier League club this off-season and similarly thrive playing off the left, there would be no doubting his ability to play as a no.10 in a top league, as it has already been shown that that is one his positions.

If anything, the consensus was that Grealish had had his best season to date when moved to, and then playing consistently as, the left-sided no.8 as opposed to being used as more of a no.10 or on the left wing. There is also the circumstances of the club to consider - Villa looking to gain promotion and having the onus on them to be proactive and win games is much closer to the situation he would find himself in were he to sign for United than battling relegation and being in a much more reactive side. His best in the former scenario has come from playing as a no.8.

I only mentioned Xavi and Scholes to illustrate the kind of positional freedom you get in that role. The particular style of the player isn't terribly important in that sense, with players of varying strengths and tendencies having operated in that area - Essien or Khedira, for example. Others who are comparable to Grealish in the sense that their game largely revolves around carrying the ball to evade pressure or progress the play would be Dembele or even Sissoko at Spurs, Wilshere, Rabiot or maybe Arthur Melo.

I wouldn't say Grealish was the ideal Pogba replacement so much as one of quite a few potential options. A Pogba replacement for me could either fit in as the no.8 next to a no.6(Matic) in a deep midfield pair in a 4-2-3-1, as the deeper of two no.8's (with/behind Fernandes) ahead of a no.6(Matic) in a 4-3-3 (a very minor tweak) or as one of two no.8's with equal license to attack ahead of that no.6.

It is obvious that you don't consider the latter an option and I agree that it would require a change to the team shape so is perhaps unrealistic. City have used a rather extreme example of this setup very successfully prior to Fernandinho being replaced, but Lazio and previously Leverkusen have used two attacking no.8's in a more regular way to good effect as well as Leicester and Real Madrid. If Solskjaer was inclined to use this shape he would likely be doing so now with Pogba clearly capable of playing with more freedom or responsibility for getting forward. We could, however, identify a particular player as a replacement who is stronger, or who you would only really want to play, higher than Pogba is now. Maddison, Milinkovic-Savic, Havertz, Brandt and Draxler are examples. Bernardo Silva and probably Foden too - unlikely targets but at least one of them will surely be disillusioned at not being seen as the David Silva replacement. Van de Beek also would really only excite me as a player with the freedom to 'go' - to get forward, identify spaces and interchange with teammates.

The former two shapes are virtually interchangeable - the typical difference between being a holder, an advanced midfielder or the link in between in a 4-2-3-1 compared to a 4-3-3 is negligible for the majority of players. Thiago, Alaba, Rabiot or Fabian Ruiz could be options here perhaps (though how likely is it any would want to come?).

Aouar and Luis Alberto would fit into any of those configurations, as would Grealish. I think with any of those three you would tweak the current shape so it was more of a 4-3-3 with the new addition as the deeper no.8 to maximise the use of the three players involved, something which you would not do with Thiago or Rabiot for me. Unsure on Alaba and Fabian Ruiz. Who else do you see as options? Who is the 'ideal' Pogba replacement?
I wouldn't move on from Pogba. And, at the moment it doesn't look like we will have to. He hasn't lived up to the expectations placed on him due to the price and hype around him, but he's very hard to replace.

But, ideally, I want someone with high-end long-range passing to run the double pivot with strong dribbling for when we are in that formation. Which are two of Pogba's strengths. If I had to pick someone on the market, it would be Thiago. Especially with the pace of our front 3. Unless we have someone like a Kante cleaning up behind them, Matic is great positionally, but he doesn't have the energy or pace to constantly run around all game putting out fires. I'm not sure I'm comfortable with a starting XI in big games with a Grealish/Fernandes set-up. If you could add anyone, ideally its probably Kroos. Which is why I'm in no rush to replace Pogba if he's willing to sign his extension.
 

Fracture90

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I know very rare, especially in the premiership but with the £80m fee, isnt there the possibility now they are in the premiership another season of adding players to the deal?

One player who I think is a transfer weapon for us is Dean Henderson. We want to loan him again, why not offer him to Villa for a season long loan next year....will probably get more practice there too.

Also Garner, Chong as possible loans?

Then we have the likes of Smalling, Jones, Lingard, Mata, Pereira....think there could be mutual interest in deals for a couple of those players
Sure, that can be done, it's a viable option. But what's stopping them from asking Hendo on a permanent deal? Don't think they would be willing to help us develop our players if there's nothing appealing for them.

I think they'd be interested in Lingard, but what's his value in their eyes? Also would he be willing to join them, he'll be forced to give up on a lot of money if he does join them.
 

jesperjaap

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Sure, that can be done, it's a viable option. But what's stopping them from asking Hendo on a permanent deal? Don't think they would be willing to help us develop our players if there's nothing appealing for them.

I think they'd be interested in Lingard, but what's his value in their eyes? Also would he be willing to join them, he'll be forced to give up on a lot of money if he does join them.
Well Tuanzabe did well there on loan from us. I know that was to help them get promoted but maybe Henderson to help them not get relegated?

Not sure on Lingard, he was a possibiliity.....Phil JOnes is one I can see makes sense for all parties involved. SO if you believe what you read on here, that would get the fee reduced from £80m to £79.99m haha

JOnes permanent + Henderson year loan + Chong year loan + £65m - They get a centre back which they need as only Mings is any good, they get a keeper for a year to imorove there defence and they get a short term direct replacement for Grealish in Chong as well as £65m to strengthen the team. Decent deal in my eyes (biased ones)
 

Fracture90

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Well Tuanzabe did well there on loan from us. I know that was to help them get promoted but maybe Henderson to help them not get relegated?

Not sure on Lingard, he was a possibiliity.....Phil JOnes is one I can see makes sense for all parties involved. SO if you believe what you read on here, that would get the fee reduced from £80m to £79.99m haha

JOnes permanent + Henderson year loan + Chong year loan + £65m - They get a centre back which they need as only Mings is any good, they get a keeper for a year to imorove there defence and they get a short term direct replacement for Grealish in Chong as well as £65m to strengthen the team. Decent deal in my eyes (biased ones)
I admire your enthusiasm mate but really doubt they would accept that deal. They've got no need to do us a solid considering we're trying to pry away their star player.

Think we might have to pay them to take Jones off our hands :lol:
 

Winzaghi

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Grealish's case is a bit different than what you think.

Out of the top team in PL, no club will be able to afford him & pay the fees ''this year''. Average players were bought in with big money due to desperation from the club. Is there any team this year desperate to pay £80m for Grealish though?

United & City have better players for the roles & position that Grealish is playing at, they are not in desperation to be willing to pay big on Grealish. Chelsea is going to sign Havertz & already have Mount & Pulisic so they won't even interested in Grealish. Liverpool has money issue that they don't even wanna go £52m Werner. Spurs Levy will never gonna pay such a money. Arsenal is the team who is desperate for creative player right now in their XI but they have no money right now unless they sell their best players like Aubameyang, Lacazatte & Pepe.

So it depends what's your club's plan here. If the plan is to keep Grealish in Aston Villa & Grealish is happy with that then that makes sense. However, if the plan is to actually really sell him for 80m after promise to the player that he will be sold this year then your club is naive, given such a situation that lot of clubs are in money crisis due to covid19 & clubs who has the money aren't desperate to sign him.
Agreed. It sounds like most of these clubs don't need him, or at least not badly enough to spend £80m and above. I believe it isn't the club's plan to sell him. All the noises being made by the club over the last couple of years is that we want to keep him and build the team around him. We gave him a fat £100k/week contract while we were still in the Championship and I imagine that's going to be improved this summer if he stays. But of course, if a club does meet Villas valuation of him and Grealish himself wants to move then I don't think they'll turn down £80m :lol: . This talk of holding him hostage etc is well wide of the mark though imo.

Besides I do think it's a fair valuation like I explained in the earlier post. I saw a tweet today that showed a graphic putting him against similar players in terms of ball carrying and passing creativity, I can't post it on here due to privileges but it was posted by @JonOllington if you want to check it out. But he's so far ahead of the pack when it come to the former skill it's kind of crazy. It really is such an invaluable skill. He is some player, and I say that as a football fan not a Villa fan. This era of football seems to have a dearth of this kind of player where they almost seemed a dime a dozen in the 90's. He reminds me of Rui Costa.
 
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golden_blunder

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Aston Villa has used various systems over the course of the season. They have rotated between a 4-2-3-1 and a 3-4-3 depending on the opponent. Grealish has fit into both systems with ease. In the 4-2-3-1, he plays in his preferred number ten role with the freedom to influence play all over the pitch. In the 3-4-3, the midfielder plays in a left-sided role. Although he isnt naturally a winger, Grealish can fill in that position when required. In this role, he drifts inside to the central areas in order to have a bigger impact on the game. Aston Villa's tactics are built around Grealish having the ball as much as possible since he is the most creative player in the side. Grealish is a combination between a traditional number ten and a modern day midfielder. The number ten role is slowly losing its influence as sides switch to midfield trios. Grealish has the ability to play across the frontline as well as in a midfield three due to his dribbling and being extremely press-resistant, very similar to Kovacic for us at Chelsea. If United were to buy him I could see him being playing in a 4-3-3 with Pogba and Bruno. They would be an extremely lethal midfield going forward and if I was Ole I would surely go for Graelish.
He reminds me stylistically of Rui Costa. Remember him?
 

golden_blunder

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Agreed. It sounds like most of these clubs don't need him, or at least not badly enough to spend £80m and above. I believe it isn't the club's plan to sell him. All the noises being made by the club over the last couple of years is that we want to keep him and build the team around him. We gave him a fat £100k/week contract while we were still in the Championship and I imagine that's going to be improved this summer if he stays. But of course, if a club does meet Villas valuation of him and Grealish himself wants to move then I don't think they'll turn down £80m :lol: . This talk of holding him hostage etc is well wide of the mark though imo.

Besides I do think it's a fair valuation like I explained in the earlier post. I saw a tweet today that showed a graphic putting him against similar players in terms of ball carrying and passing creativity, I can't post it on here due to privileges but it was posted by @JonOllington if you want to check it out. But he's so far ahead of the pack when it come to the former skill it's kind of crazy. It really is such an invaluable skill. He is some player, and I say that as a football fan not a Villa fan. This era of football seems to have a dearth of this kind of player where they almost seemed a dime a dozen in the 90's. He reminds me of Rui Costa.
Wowzers we almost wrote Rui Costa at the same time! He reminds me so much of him, running from deep drawing players in, socks down. Ha! I didn’t know if anyone would agree
 

Winzaghi

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Wowzers we almost wrote Rui Costa at the same time! He reminds me so much of him, running from deep drawing players in, socks down. Ha! I didn’t know if anyone would agree
Almost telepathic :lol:

It's such an endearing style of play, I almost feel like that's the ideal footballer. Like if I wanted to be reincarnated as a footballer, it would be like that. Either that or a Ronaldo Fenomeno type striker.
 
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golden_blunder

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Almost telepathic :lol:

It's such an endearing style of play, I almost feel like that's the ideal footballer. Like if I wanted to be reincarnated as a footballer, it would be like that. Either that or a Ronaldo Fenomeno type striker.
Costa is probably my favourite Portuguese footballer of all time, yes even ahead of Ronnie
Made it look so easy in a languid kind of way
 

Yagami

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At Villa. Could he do it at United?
Doubt it.
Who knows, mate. I definitely think he's worth a shot because if he can do what he does for Villa for us, then he'll be one hell of a player to have, and I believe he can.
 

croadyman

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Could the Jimenez stuff be United's way of saying to Villa we can spend big on people other than Grealish
 

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Aston Villa has used various systems over the course of the season. They have rotated between a 4-2-3-1 and a 3-4-3 depending on the opponent. Grealish has fit into both systems with ease. In the 4-2-3-1, he plays in his preferred number ten role with the freedom to influence play all over the pitch. In the 3-4-3, the midfielder plays in a left-sided role. Although he isnt naturally a winger, Grealish can fill in that position when required. In this role, he drifts inside to the central areas in order to have a bigger impact on the game. Aston Villa's tactics are built around Grealish having the ball as much as possible since he is the most creative player in the side. Grealish is a combination between a traditional number ten and a modern day midfielder. The number ten role is slowly losing its influence as sides switch to midfield trios. Grealish has the ability to play across the frontline as well as in a midfield three due to his dribbling and being extremely press-resistant, very similar to Kovacic for us at Chelsea. If United were to buy him I could see him being playing in a 4-3-3 with Pogba and Bruno. They would be an extremely lethal midfield going forward and if I was Ole I would surely go for Graelish.
Are all your posts stolen?

https://www.sportskeeda.com/footbal...lish-and-which-club-would-be-the-best-for-him
 

The Brown Bull

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Since he hasnt played International football or at any other club than Villa, how can you even form an opinion of whether or not he can do it higher up or not as there is no evidence either way to go on.
Exactly. No evidence. You don't go splurging 80 million unless it's a sure thing.
 

croadyman

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Wouldn't be at the least bit surprised if Utd try getting creative with signing Jack like we are seeing with Jadon too
 

Riz

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Could the Jimenez stuff be United's way of saying to Villa we can spend big on people other than Grealish
How would that help things?
If they played the same position then maybe it would be used as a threat of targeting an alternative but they don’t.
 

Hoboman

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As someone mentioned earlier, Ødegaard has chronic injury which has no fully effective treatment
 

Real Madras

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No way are United going to send Henderson to Villa. He will be our first choice next season.
As for Grealish. I think we will get him for around £45m with add ons taking it to around £65m. (Maybe send Garner there on loan)
 

Chairman Steve

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The public defiance stance could be adopted by Villa in this instance, and that a deal is already in place with Utd. It makes it look like Villa tried their best to keep him and didn’t give up easily, as well as it hides their poker hand from the rest of the market when they’re after his replacement(s).

Nothing worse than you get a ton of money then all the clubs who have players you wish to target with that said money, will automatically jack up the price (no pun intended) to the point you are genuinely priced out. This could all just be a charade by two clubs and the buying club is giving the selling club time to find their replacement.

It seems fairly sound to me anyway. When we bought Herrera, Bilbao were very defiant publicly saying he wasn’t going anywhere from memory then a few hours later he was going to OT.