Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

Status
Not open for further replies.

sewey89

Incorrectly predicted the de Jong transfer 2022
Joined
Jun 15, 2011
Messages
10,682
Location
Chesterfield
I don’t expect to hear anything today. But it’s one day closer to October which makes it a big day.
 

LisburnWhite

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Feb 26, 2015
Messages
433
Location
Lisburn, N.Ireland
Then put your little hand in mine
There ain't no hill or mountain we can't climb
Babe
I got you babe
I got you babe

OK, campers, rise and shine, and don't forget your booties cause it's cold out there. It's cold out there every day.

"Happy Sancho day, again"
 

Fido

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 8, 2013
Messages
40
RedRonaldo said:
You are using team trophy to compare young players? Since when do a winning Portugal league > scoring nearly 20 goals + 20 assist of individual performance in Germany when assessing a player?
In any sense, Sancho > Joao Felix, by quite a margin.
Click to expand...
RedRonaldo said:
You are using team trophy to compare young players? Since when do a winning Portugal league > scoring nearly 20 goals + 20 assist of individual performance in Germany when assessing a player?
In any sense, Sancho > Joao Felix, by quite a margin.
Click to expand...

Winning Portuguese league ain’t better than 20G+20A in Bundesliga for sure. I was trying to insinuate that winning trophies as a metric to see what kind of contribution they made to the team. We all know that to win even a simple tournament, there will be tight moments to any team. A person who held their own in those kinda situations show a characteristic that’s transferable to any club they went (Prime example is Zizou, he seems to drag his teams through thick and thin)

We might need to analyze why Dortmund is fixed on €120m. I believe that it’s because someone with similar value with respect to potential+talent went for that much money to Atletico. If Dortmund is comparing Sancho with Felix, why shouldn’t we?

In the last two seasons, if you are of the opinion Dortmund didn’t choke up on the title race. I beg to differ since they had a fairly good chance to win the league.

What did Sancho contribute in those tight fixtures against Bayern. He was hooked off after 36 mins last year against Bayern.

So, all I am saying that there could be chinks in the armor of Sancho and dumping all our transfer funds on one guy with the hope he will solve all our issues could be utter stupidity.
 

King7Eric

Correctly predicted Italy to win Euro 2020
Joined
Sep 19, 2016
Messages
3,113
Location
Cardiff
croadyman said:
So how much do the confident ones think that this deal gets done for just out of interest
Click to expand...
I don't know if I qualify as one of the confident ones, because I'm not someone who gets very invested into muppeting, but I still think this deal will get done.

Looking at the chain of events logically, what we know so far is that Utd still believe this deal can be done. Now we have been notorious in the past to shut down rumours about players we actually go for but when it becomes clear we are not getting them, we always let it known via our mouthpieces that we have ended the pursuit. Griezmann, Dybala, Haaland are some examples of this. So far all the noise from our end is we are still trying to get him.

Reputed international journalists like Romano and Falk have also maintained that we are interested and the player is interested in moving as well.

I've read German posters on here saying that there's no noise in the German media about this deal, which they take as indicative of the deal being dead. Well there was no news about VDB as well, until it broke all of a sudden as being nearly done. I really don't equate no news as being bad news. It's only the Dortmund mouthpieces who have parroted the club line of the deal being dead or no longer being possible.

Lastly, some on here have speculated that us making a bid is just to appease fans and we are doing it knowing it will be rejected so we can lay the blame at Dortmund's door. I don't think it works like that. No club publicly makes a bid knowing it will be rejected because it's embarrassing for the said club as it shows incompetence of bidding without knowing it'll be accepted. We certainly wouldn't make this public knowledge that our bid was rejected, it's much easier to claim we never bid at all.

I do think in the coming week we will bid, lower than 100 million, but the deal will be structured in a way that Dortmund can pass it off as being 100 million thus appearing to have stayed firm on their stance. I think Sancho will also agitate for the move once we actually make a bid, so it works out for Dortmund in the end as they can claim they didn't want to force the player to stay and they also get their required amount.

Of course, this is all speculation on my part, but that's how I see it going down.
 

Stretender

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
582
Bastian said:
@Stretender

Whether people like it or not football is a business and the elite clubs are playthings of rich people or groups of rich people. So best not to expect some moral fortitude from those in power.

Two specific things you mentioned: the prices of players - you can debate values all day, but again, football is embedded in the world of money and entertainment, so prices reflect what demand there is. No player should be worth or sold for 90m, but if Mbappe was put up for sale today for 90m, you'd probably have a queue of the top 10 clubs willing to pay that, by any means necessary. Any significant transfer activity now is a gamble, but we're seeing most, if not all, of our domestic rivals take that gamble. Going into a season with a thin or a weak squad is likewise, also a gamble - with view to sponsorship deals and CL money. If Sancho was our player, I don't think I'd want the club to sell for anything below 100m, regardless of the current market.

Also, if the club were to go bankrupt, as you suggested, it wouldn't be asset stripped and ultimately destroyed. The Glazer cnuts would then encourage a bidding war and pocket anything upwards of a billion, whilst our debts would be wiped off in the process. I don't mean to sound blasé about it, because it could end up being something altogether diabolical (nation state white washing enterprise) but the club won't go bankrupt, as such.

The wisest decision the Glazers could make - financially - given the economic landscape, would be to appoint top class people to take care of the footballing side of the club's operations as our track record is there for all to see, 100s of millions wasted and one of the highest wage bills in the world with nothing to show for it. That would be the most cost-saving exercise they could engage in.
Click to expand...
I agree on the Sports Director point. Someone who understands football would not have recommended us to renew contracts for Rojo and Jones.

The decisions to give contract extensions at Manchester United to players who do not deserve such contracts is the reason we find ourselves in this position today where we cant sign more players because the wage bill is too high.

People need to understand that I am not against signing Sancho. I am very much sign Sancho than not sign Sancho. What I find annoying is some fans who seem to question why Woodward doesn't want to pay 120 million. Like just pay regardless. The suggestion that United want to pay less is being laughed at as if it's a sign that we are under valuing Sancho or thinking he is not important.

Manchester United will pay what they think is the right valuation and it's clear they are not happy with the Dortmund's valuation. Calling United useless, rubbish etc because they don't want to pay 120 million is just childish thinking.
Chief123 said:
This post is even more bizarre than your last one.

You had a problem with Utd spending 120m euro on a player because Utd fans are losing their jobs and it would be irresponsible of the club.

But you are then suggesting Utd should spend that same 120m on other players. Because Utd fans won’t lose their jobs in that situation right? :confused:
Click to expand...
If you think paying 120 million for one player is the same as paying the same amount for 2 players then there is no point in discussing this because you can't grasp basic economics.

Chelsea bought Timo Werner and Pulisic for less than 120 million. Do you not understand that buying a player for 120 million sets a bad precedent in that the next player you want to buy, the selling club will want to over charge?

You are here acting like you know how things will turn out economically in the next 6 to 12 months. People like Woodward are actually qualified finance professionals whose job involves not just signing or approving 120 million pounds cheques today. They think about the future more, forecasting and budgeting based on the economic outlook.

At the moment they don't know when they will receive money at the gates, so they are correct to be cautious with writing out cheques.

Of course it would look stupid if United paid 120 million pounds for Sancho, and 2 months down the line, they end up laying off some of their staff

Don't come here and say things like pay 120 million at all costs. Its not necessary to pay 120 million at all costs now, if you can pay less in a year for the same player.

Ask yourself which other club wants to pay 120 million for Sancho today? If you honestly answer that question you will begin to understand why 120 million pounds is not 120 pounds.
 
Last edited:

sglowrider

Thinks the caf is 'wokeish'.
Joined
Dec 27, 2009
Messages
25,214
Location
Hell on Earth
blackhawk747 said:
The loss is no big deal. Everyone posts loss in this difficult period.
As of 30/06, BVB only had 3M cash in bank and already drawn down 8M out of 60 M credit facility. They are so short of cash.
Moreover, 27% of Total sales revenue comes from player transfer in the period 19-20. Their business model is heavily dependent upon players sales. If they think Sancho worth more next year, why don’t they sell someone else to balance the book?
Click to expand...
Is this public knowledge? If its true, it would explain why Woodward is waiting till the very last week to pull the trigger.
 

Fortitude

TV/Monitor Expert
Scout
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
22,812
Location
Inside right
Why do people keep asking why United are the only club chasing Sancho this window like the answer is not glaringly obvious?

It should be obvious to the point it is not bought forward as a talking point unless you simply have no idea of the personnel (and targeted pursuits) at the clubs who are able to entertain the wages, transfer and agent fee of a player in Sancho's price bracket.

Further to that, we are desperate for an actual wide-forward, which makes him a priority for us as opposed to anyone else who could afford him.
 

Chief123

Full Member
Joined
Dec 27, 2013
Messages
12,787
Fortitude said:
Why do people keep asking why United are the only club chasing Sancho this window like the answer is not glaringly obvious?

It should be obvious to the point it is not bought forward as a talking point unless you simply have no idea of the personnel (and targeted pursuits) at the clubs who are able to entertain the wages, transfer and agent fee of a player in Sancho's price bracket.

Further to that, we are desperate for an actual wide-forward, which makes him a priority for us as opposed to anyone else who could afford him.
Click to expand...
According to a lot of Caf members, a player can’t be very good when there is only one team in for him.

No wonder Cristiano Ronaldo was awful for Real Madrid. They should have seen the signs when no one else came in for him.
 

fps

Full Member
Joined
Dec 22, 2018
Messages
5,504
Stretender said:
There are people on here , I don't know if they are genuine Manchester United supporters or not but their attitude stinks. They are somehow convinced that we should pay 120 million for Sancho regardless. No negotiating of the price. For them paying more for Sancho is like something to brag about or it will prove how important Sancho is.

They would be the first people to castigate Woodward and the Glazers if Manchester United went broke because of irresponsible spending.

My only view or take on it is that these fans do not live in the real world. Everything is done for them and their mum and dad pay for their credit card.

Sancho is a good player but he is not worth 120 million.

If Ed or indeed Manchester United fail to sign him on that basis, we should all applaud them not condemn them.

People talk about 120 million like its 120 pounds. People are losing their jobs at the moment and for Manchester United, a club based in the North West where all these hardships are common place, it would be heavily irresponsible to splash 120 million on Sancho when most of their fans are out of work. It would be insensitive and could cause unrepairable damage to the club if they went along with it.

Personally I like Sancho but pay as low as possible and not at once. It would be a kick in the teeth to fans whose lives have been turned upside down by covid crisis.

As Manchester United fans on here we need to get REAL.
Click to expand...
This doesn’t make sense. Man Utd already paid lots of money for a player this window and will continue to do so. It has no relation to others’ hardships now any more than it did before.
 

Mickeza

still gets no respect
Joined
Aug 21, 2012
Messages
14,100
Location
Deepthroating information to Howard Nurse.
Stretender said:
This is common knowledge to those working at Manchester United and I happen to know a few.

Ole gave Woodward Jadon Sancho as his primary transfer target. Ed Woodward knew all along the amount Dortmund valued Sancho at. There is no way Ed would fail to deliver on what Ole wanted .Think about it, if United were not going to buy Sancho, cheaper alternatives would have been brought in already.

It will happen trust me.
Click to expand...
Well @Stretender seems to have changed his tune. Seems it’s now common knowledge at the club that it’ll happen next year instead because signing players now is an insult to fans who have lost their job :lol:
 

Hammondo

Full Member
Joined
Aug 21, 2015
Messages
6,855
King7Eric said:
I don't know if I qualify as one of the confident ones, because I'm not someone who gets very invested into muppeting, but I still think this deal will get done.

Looking at the chain of events logically, what we know so far is that Utd still believe this deal can be done. Now we have been notorious in the past to shut down rumours about players we actually go for but when it becomes clear we are not getting them, we always let it known via our mouthpieces that we have ended the pursuit. Griezmann, Dybala, Haaland are some examples of this. So far all the noise from our end is we are still trying to get him.

Reputed international journalists like Romano and Falk have also maintained that we are interested and the player is interested in moving as well.

I've read German posters on here saying that there's no noise in the German media about this deal, which they take as indicative of the deal being dead. Well there was no news about VDB as well, until it broke all of a sudden as being nearly done. I really don't equate no news as being bad news. It's only the Dortmund mouthpieces who have parroted the club line of the deal being dead or no longer being possible.

Lastly, some on here have speculated that us making a bid is just to appease fans and we are doing it knowing it will be rejected so we can lay the blame at Dortmund's door. I don't think it works like that. No club publicly makes a bid knowing it will be rejected because it's embarrassing for the said club as it shows incompetence of bidding without knowing it'll be accepted. We certainly wouldn't make this public knowledge that our bid was rejected, it's much easier to claim we never bid at all.

I do think in the coming week we will bid, lower than 100 million, but the deal will be structured in a way that Dortmund can pass it off as being 100 million thus appearing to have stayed firm on their stance. I think Sancho will also agitate for the move once we actually make a bid, so it works out for Dortmund in the end as they can claim they didn't want to force the player to stay and they also get their required amount.

Of course, this is all speculation on my part, but that's how I see it going down.
Click to expand...
Why would Dortmund care about passing it off as 100m? Why would they want to?
 

Adam-Utd

Part of first caf team to complete Destiny raid
Joined
Sep 10, 2010
Messages
39,954
I feel like this thread will never die. It'll go until January - then next summer will be the one.
 

HackeyC

Full Member
Joined
Dec 31, 2018
Messages
532
Stretender said:
I agree on the Sports Director point. Someone who understands football would not have recommended us to renew contracts for Rojo and Jones.

The decisions to give contract extensions at Manchester United to players who do not deserve such contracts is the reason we find ourselves in this position today where we cant sign more players because the wage bill is too high.

People need to understand that I am not against signing Sancho. I am very much sign Sancho than not sign Sancho. What I find annoying is some fans who seem to question why Woodward doesn't want to pay 120 million. Like just pay regardless. The suggestion that United want to pay less is being laughed at as if it's a sign that we are under valuing Sancho or thinking he is not important.

Manchester United will pay what they think is the right valuation and it's clear they are not happy with the Dortmund's valuation. Calling United useless, rubbish etc because they don't want to pay 120 million is just childish thinking.

If you think paying 120 million for one player is the same as paying the same amount for 2 players then there is no point in discussing this because you can't grasp basic economics.

Chelsea bought Timo Werner and Pulisic for less than 120 million. Do you not understand that buying a player for 120 million sets a bad precedent in that the next player you want to buy, the selling club will want to over charge?

You are here acting like you know how things will turn out economically in the next 6 to 12 months. People like Woodward are actually qualified finance professionals whose job involves not just signing or approving 120 million pounds cheques today. They think about the future more, forecasting and budgeting based on the economic outlook.

At the moment they don't know when they will receive money at the gates, so they are correct to be cautious with writing out cheques.

Of course it would look stupid if United paid 120 million pounds for Sancho, and 2 months down the line, they end up laying off some of their staff

Don't come here and say things like pay 120 million at all costs. Its not necessary to pay 120 million at all costs now, if you can pay less in a year for the same player.

Ask yourself which other club wants to pay 120 million for Sancho today? If you honestly answer that question you will begin to understand why 120 million pounds is not 120 pounds.
Click to expand...
If I could leave a like I would, couldn't have said it better.
 

Fortitude

TV/Monitor Expert
Scout
Joined
Jul 10, 2004
Messages
22,812
Location
Inside right
Chief123 said:
According to a lot of Caf members, a player can’t be very good when there is only one team in for him.

No wonder Cristiano Ronaldo was awful for Real Madrid. They should have seen the signs when no one else came in for him.
Click to expand...
It requires such base deductive reasoning that it boggles the mind to see it repeatedly used in posts. Simply look at the clubs in the select tier, and the answer is literally right there in their 1st xi's and squads!
 

ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg

Full Member
Joined
May 22, 2017
Messages
13,122
RedPnutz said:
Was hopeful about this deal from the beginning and very confident about this happening. Nothing is certain of course but reckon probability is high that we sign Sancho at a price lower than Borussia’s asking.

Woodward has played this well. No doubt BD’s financials have been scrutinised and they need the money. In the intervening weeks of silence no one else has even shown interest in Sancho, and Dortmund will be getting nervous. Of course it can be argued that Sancho staying is good for them Football-wise but when you are cash-strapped Football takes second place.

Clubs have been brought to ruin not by poor Football but by poor finances.

We’ve got other deals lined up and even without Sancho we will get replacements. Sorry to say this but fans who claim we should just pay what Dortmund wants are fools. No one should ever take the first offer, and paying up only sends the signal that we can be ripped off. Negotiating is the only responsible thing to do. If anything the pandemic should be teaching the lesson that unexpected things can happen and having a large margin of safety is critical. Yes we all want United to be back at the races but no one wants the horse to die.

The way I see it, Dortmund will cave. Perhaps not at our bid but certainly not at their asking.
Click to expand...
Good post mate.

Dortmund have been posturing all summer and want to sell. Yes, we clearly want the player, but I am pleased that we aren’t jumping in and paying whatever they want. We have to be prudent.
 

RashyForPM

New Member
Joined
Jun 25, 2020
Messages
3,183
Chief123 said:
According to a lot of Caf members, a player can’t be very good when there is only one team in for him.

No wonder Cristiano Ronaldo was awful for Real Madrid. They should have seen the signs when no one else came in for him.
Click to expand...
That shite player Messi hasn’t had anyone want him until this year too. Crap. Furthermore, KdB and Lewandowski haven’t been chased since they last switched clubs, when only one club wanted them iirc. Neuer too. What shite players.

Basically lads, football doesn’t work like that. There are so many factors involved in wanting and buying a player. Let’s not resort to using this ridiculous argument.
 

RUCK4444

New Member
Joined
Feb 3, 2015
Messages
9,553
Location
$¥$¥$¥$¥$
ClaytonBlackmoorLeftPeg said:
Good post mate.

Dortmund have been posturing all summer and want to sell. Yes, we clearly want the player, but I am pleased that we aren’t jumping in and paying whatever they want. We have to be prudent.
Click to expand...
Yeah these ‘fake deadlines’ have been very over the top, their whole approach to this screams ‘please sign him for lots of money.’

We haven’t even made a bid and we’ve missed two of these deadlines supposedly. They know they want to sell, they’ve tried setting their stall out from the beginning.
Those deadlines are clearly created to pressure us into panicking and paying the top fee.

I’m not saying they will suddenly fold and take a silly offer but they are likely to accept a payment structure that suits United.
 

dinostar77

Full Member
Joined
Feb 6, 2014
Messages
7,262
If we had a better negotiating team we could have given Dortmund the fee they want albeit in addons. If Dortmund really think hes that good then put a Balon D'or trophy or being nominated in top 3 in the Balon D'or in the addons.
Or winning the Champions League or winning the league etc. All of these would be great for Utd if they happened and in that situation Utd should be happy to pay out.

Basically we need a Marina Granivskaia whos bloody awesome at negotiating. She got £150mil out of Madrid for Hazard who had one year left on his contract albeit the total sum was made up of addons.
 

Stretender

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Jun 23, 2020
Messages
582
Mickeza said:
Well @Stretender seems to have changed his tune. Seems it’s now common knowledge at the club that it’ll happen next year instead because signing players now is an insult to fans who have lost their job :lol:
Click to expand...
Not changed one bit mate. I am for Sancho and it will happen but at terms acceptable to Manchester United

My issue is not signing Sancho. I want Sancho to be signed. My issue is with people on here who are behaving like Dortmund fans in laughing at the fact that United will bid 90 million.

My question is if United sign Sancho for 90 million, will those laughing at United not be happy with a 90 million Sancho instead of a 120 million Sancho.

Because in my opinion these people seem to think we should pay 120 million at all costs to earn the respect from Dortmund and show the rest of the footballing world that we can pay 120 million
 
Status
Not open for further replies.