Jadon Sancho| Staying at Dortmund for now

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marktan

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His xA for the season is only 4.33 so that isn't really true. xA per 90 is roughly half that of Sancho. Sancho's xG is double his. Maximin seems like a good enough player but Sancho is younger and already way ahead in terms of productivity. Also, is Maximin not primarily a left winger.
I'm not saying they're on the same level, all I said was that if we didn't want to spend £100m and instead around £40-50m he's the one I'd go for.

I'm not sure what xA is or how it's calculated but I've watched a lot of Newcastle games this season and he'd easily hit 10 assists based on a lot of the chances he created being finished. Regardless of however xA is calculatrd I've seen enough to know that he'd be able to regularly create for any team. He is better on the left but he has been playing on the RW recently and he still looks very good. It's similar to Sancho in that both would long term be better on the left but can play well on the right.
 

croadyman

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I don’t get the arrogance over the Sancho deal. We’ve been here so many times over the past few years. Most recently , Haaland.
Because Stone said exactly the same thing yesterday as he said with AWB, Bruno & Maguire. That is the main reason I am so confident about it
 

JoeyJoJoJrShabadoo

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Maximin would easily have 10+ assists this season if either Joelinton or Almiron could finish. He sets up a lot but not many of the chances get finished.

I do agree that Sancho has exceptional decision making and vision - I would caveat it though with the point that defenses in Bundesliga in general aren't as compact as they are in the PL.

The reason you need someone who can dribble and beat a man, is because against compact defenses being a good passer of the ball isn't enough. You need to be able to beat a defender from a standing start. All top teams have these players - your Mane/Salahs, Sterling/Sane, Son, Messi, Neymar etc.

It's hard to really speculate how Sancho will translate his skill set in the PL - he does have an exceptional tough and close control - but Kagawa and Mkhitaryan also looked a lot better for Dortmund. It's one of those that's just conjecture really until it happens and it plays out. A bit like Pulisics current form at Chelsea or Bruno who was relatively not as highly regarded due to playing in a weaker league and then obviously has been great.

The reason I mention Maximin because 1) He'd be cheaper 2) Hes shown that he can consistently beat defenders in the PL - he reminds me a bit of Mane with the spring he has in his step. But if we did fork out the £100m for Sancho I wouldn't complain - we've been dying for a RW for about 10 years now and he'd definitely improve us.
If the takeover doesnt happen, Maximin could be a shout but bare in mind they refused to sell Longstaff for less than £50M....
 

HerrLeinad

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Is this meant to be a joke? I know people have this obsession with Sancho, but he is not better than Martial . I think people will be in for a shock when Sancho plays in the premier league. He wont produce the Dortmund numbers here because teams don't give you that freedom here. Defending in Bundesliga is a joke.
Counter argument: Danny Ings has 20 goals this season so far.

Besides that the last player of that category who went to the PL (De Bruyne) has had no problems to keep his BL numbers.
It's anyways weird to argue that BL defending is a joke considering some of the recent goals ManUtd has scored with a lot of help from the opponents. Defending is of very mixed quality in all top leagues or do you honestly think there is a big difference between the mid and lower table teams in England, Spain, Germany, Italy or France?
The real difference is usually between the top teams but then one should acknowledge that this is certainly not an area where EPL top teams currently shine outside of Liverpool. Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham for example struggle defensively this season and City also has been weaker than usual.

It is of course always possible that a player will struggle at a new club and not deliver the same kind of numbers but it won't be because of better defending or did someone like Sanchez fail at United because everyone in the EPL started to defend better once he arrived at your club?
The most likely reason for Sancho not producing the same numbers is the simple fact that United is less attacking than Dortmund (at least so far).

In regards to comparisons between Martial and Sancho:
Keep in mind that Martial is now 24 years old and delivers these numbers for the first time after some disappointing seasons and as striker.
Sancho is just 20 years old and is now 2 for 2 in exceptional seasons and that while not being on a particular hot streak (you can feel/see that there is still a lot of room left in him).
Even someone like CR7 needed three seasons before he started to produce such numbers in his 4th PL season.
So I don't care too much about stuff like "who is better" because judging players at different stages in their career is always difficult but so far Sancho's trajectory is definitely on a different level than Martial's. Doesn't need to stay that way but there is a reason why Sancho's numbers are EXTREMELY rare for such a young player.
 

marktan

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Counter argument: Danny Ings has 20 goals this season so far.

Besides that the last player of that category who went to the PL (De Bruyne) has had no problems to keep his BL numbers.
It's anyways weird to argue that BL defending is a joke considering some of the recent goals ManUtd has scored with a lot of help from the opponents. Defending is of very mixed quality in all top leagues or do you honestly think there is a big difference between the mid and lower table teams in England, Spain, Germany, Italy or France?
The real difference is usually between the top teams but then one should acknowledge that this is certainly not an area where EPL top teams currently shine outside of Liverpool. Chelsea, Arsenal and Tottenham for example struggle defensively this season and City also has been weaker than usual.

It is of course always possible that a player will struggle at a new club and not deliver the same kind of numbers but it won't be because of better defending or did someone like Sanchez fail at United because everyone in the EPL started to defend better once he arrived at your club?
The most likely reason for Sancho not producing the same numbers is the simple fact that United is less attacking than Dortmund (at least so far).

In regards to comparisons between Martial and Sancho:
Keep in mind that Martial is now 24 years old and delivers these numbers for the first time after some disappointing seasons and as striker.
Sancho is just 20 years old and is now 2 for 2 in exceptional seasons and that while not being on a particular hot streak (you can feel/see that there is still a lot of room left in him).
Even someone like CR7 needed three seasons before he started to produce such numbers in his 4th PL season.
So I don't care too much about stuff like "who is better" because judging players at different stages in their career is always difficult but so far Sancho's trajectory is definitely on a different level than Martial's. Doesn't need to stay that way but there is a reason why Sancho's numbers are EXTREMELY rare for such a young player.
That's harsh on Ings - he's scored some cracking goals this season that have nothing to do with the defence. Genuinely been in top top form.

As you say I don't think Bundesligas defence is worse on average, but rather that Dortmund are a pretty attacking team.

United fans have prior to be a bit hesitant - both Kagawa and Mkhitaryan had similar 20 goal seasons to Sancho, and then struggled to get anywhere near that here.

For me I think Sancho has all the tools to be a top player, but the one thing that worries me is that when he played against Spurs or PSG in the CL, he struggled to really dribble. If he's not able to dribble against tighter more compact defences in a less attacking team than Dortmund than really it negates a huge part of the effectiveness of a front 3 player.
 

The Oracle

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I honestly think it would be a bad move if we were to sign Sancho this Summer.

A £100m transfer fee would simply put too much pressure on the young man’s shoulders. The fans and the media would expect him to give near 10 out of 10 performances week in week out – and he simply wouldn’t do that.

You only have to look at Paul Pogba to see how an astronomical transfer fee can affect a player. Not only have we seen it in his performances over the years, but we actually now have inside information that backs up the argument...

Ex-United coach Emilo Álvarez, when giving a recent interview about his fallout with De Gea, was asked about Paul Pogba’s talents, and he gave this response:
“At United, he was weighed down by the responsibility and the pressure of being a multi-million euro signing.”

I think the best situation all round would be to wait a year, and then Sancho will have 12 months remaining on his contract, and he will then be available for around £50m.

This Summer I would be more than happy if we sign Jack Grealish. He’s a proven Premier League player, who in my opinion would bridge the gap between our World class midfielders (Pogba and Bruno), and our good midfielders (Matic, McTominay, and Fred).
 

RkkMan

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I honestly think it would be a bad move if we were to sign Sancho this Summer.

A £100m transfer fee would simply put too much pressure on the young man’s shoulders. The fans and the media would expect him to give near 10 out of 10 performances week in week out – and he simply wouldn’t do that.

You only have to look at Paul Pogba to see how an astronomical transfer fee can affect a player. Not only have we seen it in his performances over the years, but we actually now have inside information that backs up the argument...

Ex-United coach Emilo Álvarez, when giving a recent interview about his fallout with De Gea, was asked about Paul Pogba’s talents, and he gave this response:
“At United, he was weighed down by the responsibility and the pressure of being a multi-million euro signing.”

I think the best situation all round would be to wait a year, and then Sancho will have 12 months remaining on his contract, and he will then be available for around £50m.

This Summer I would be more than happy if we sign Jack Grealish. He’s a proven Premier League player, who in my opinion would bridge the gap between our World class midfielders (Pogba and Bruno), and our good midfielders (Matic, McTominay, and Fred).
And what makes you think Utd will be the only club that will be after Sancho next summer if he`s available on a lesser fee after a good season and good Euros?? Waiting a year will make it 2 times harder to buy him competing with 4/5 other clubs and Grealish at best would be a rotational midfielder would be a good buy but he neither adds proper depth to our front 3 nor take us to the next level to close the gap on LFC/City Sancho will even if not immediately.
As for the fee Sancho jettisoned himself from his home country to go to a new country with a different culture and still ended up succeeding whilst getting matchday experience against the likes of Barca/Bayern/PSG he is more than capable of handling the pressure of a big fee and he`s English so reckon the English press will go easy on their star player anyway.
 

sp_107

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We have our own like Rashford, Mason and Henderson from the academy who can fetch 60+ Millions

Wondering you prefer to wait for more like this/sign absolute bargains like Bruno OR go and buy like Madrid ?

looks like even Madrid did well in cleverly spending money in last few years

I feel sad to see our team is at 10th place in most valuable teams across Europe after spending 700 Millions in last 7 years.

It feels good to have our own to balance the books but I don’t mind to spend big rather Glazers pocketing that money
 

Goku23

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If we seal Sancho we should go for Varane next this might be the best chance to get him Madrid are on the decline we are improving and we are atttractive with Bruno Pogba Martial etc
 

Giggsy13

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There seems to be a lot of public posturing over the price, which would suggest that there is some talks going on in the background. I think a deal will eventually get done but it’s going to drag out for the rest of the summer in typical Woodward/Glazer style.
 

Al Capone

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We have been crying out for a right side combination since neville and becks. Sancho and AWB could get somewhere near to that combination with many years ahead of them to grow. Both players have so much more to offer and will no doubt grow to be even better over the next few seasons. Price tag is always irrelevant for UTD as it doesn't matter who they buy or when, they always pay a premium. If the player is the right one we just need to close the signing ASAP and start addressing other areas in need of improvement.
 

The Oracle

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And what makes you think Utd will be the only club that will be after Sancho next summer if he`s available on a lesser fee after a good season and good Euros?? Waiting a year will make it 2 times harder to buy him competing with 4/5 other clubs and Grealish at best would be a rotational midfielder would be a good buy but he neither adds proper depth to our front 3 nor take us to the next level to close the gap on LFC/City Sancho will even if not immediately.
As for the fee Sancho jettisoned himself from his home country to go to a new country with a different culture and still ended up succeeding whilst getting matchday experience against the likes of Barca/Bayern/PSG he is more than capable of handling the pressure of a big fee and he`s English so reckon the English press will go easy on their star player anyway.

There is no doubt that if he stays at Dortmund for another year, other clubs would come in for him next season, when he would be available for a lot less than what he is now.

In that scenario, even with a lot of clubs that would come in for him, if Sancho chose Manchester United then that would say a lot about the player – that he actually wants to play for Manchester United! As opposed to him just signing for whoever pays him the highest wages.

I do agree that Grealish wouldn’t displace Pogba or Bruno, but there is a clear gap between Pogba and Bruno (who everyone can see are World class), and our next best midfielders of Matic, McTominay, and Fred.
Grealish would plug that gap brilliantly.

Of course there is an argument that signing Sancho would get us closer to competing with City and Liverpool. For me it’s all about the timing, and trust me when I say that if he currently had 12 months left on his contract, then I would be saying to go all out and sign him right now.
As he doesn’t then I am sceptical about how he would perform being a £100m transfer.
 

crossy1686

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I don’t get the arrogance over the Sancho deal. We’ve been here so many times over the past few years. Most recently , Haaland.
Go back and read what the athletic have been reporting on this transfer for the last year and you’ll understand.
This hasn’t just been decided this month and this isn’t the first contact United have had with Sancho and his reps. This deal has been years in the making to this point.
 

Bojan Djordjic

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I'm not saying they're on the same level, all I said was that if we didn't want to spend £100m and instead around £40-50m he's the one I'd go for.

I'm not sure what xA is or how it's calculated but I've watched a lot of Newcastle games this season and he'd easily hit 10 assists based on a lot of the chances he created being finished. Regardless of however xA is calculatrd I've seen enough to know that he'd be able to regularly create for any team. He is better on the left but he has been playing on the RW recently and he still looks very good. It's similar to Sancho in that both would long term be better on the left but can play well on the right.
Well expected assists (xA) just calculates what the average player would score from the positions in which Maximin has provides goal chances. Very few players outperform the xG over long periods of time so is highly predictive over a large sample period (such as a season) and highly unlikely therefore that if his xA is 4.33, that he has actually set up 10 clear chances this season despite what the eye test tells you.

Separately, I really think we need a specialist right winger. One of our big issues in recent years has been fitting round pegs in square holes. It all has a cumulative effect on team play. We've seen how playing on the right has hampered the productivity of Martial, Rashford and even James in comparison to when they play on the left.
 
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croadyman

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Go back and read what the athletic have been reporting on this transfer for the last year and you’ll understand.
This hasn’t just been decided this month and this isn’t the first contact United have had with Sancho and his reps. This deal has been years in the making to this point.
Yeah they wanted to sign him when he left City in 2017 but there was no chance of that happening back then.
 

La Pioche

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Sancho is just that type of player with that x-factor. It‘s time to pay whatever they want. Together with Tony and Rashy he will shine. He is not only technically gifted and can send any defender to the cinema but he is also unselfish. He will always find his mates whenever defenders only looking at him. Get him und let‘s take the piss out of the football world again.
 
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AbstruseAlan

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I don't usually buy into any of the transfer muppetry but you can just kind of sense this is nailed on can't you? We should be in a position to get him at a decent price considering the current financial climate. I don't particularly rate him as high as many seem to but he'll do a job and fit in with the lads we have and system we use comfortably.
 

Giggsy13

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Settling for Grealish or Maximin over Sancho would be a prime 90s/early 2000s liverpool move. We all know who the better player is, it’s clear as day. Sancho is a game changer with world class potential. This deal will take time and most likely hinges on top 4 but I think the noise we’ve been hearing in the press is that there’s clearly interest from our club in the player. As mentioned, the public posturing over price suggests that preliminary talks have already started.
 

Zapata

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Settling for Grealish or Maximin over Sancho would be a prime 90s/early 2000s liverpool move. We all know who the better player is, it’s clear as day. Sancho is a game changer with world class potential. This deal will take time and most likely hinges on top 4 but I think the noise we’ve been hearing in the press is that there’s clearly interest from our club in the player. As mentioned, the public posturing over price suggests that preliminary talks have already started.
100%.. past signings all have seemed similar to this
 

He'sRaldo

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Well expected assists (xA) just calculates what the average player would score from the positions in which Maximin has provides goal chances. Very few players outperform the xG over long periods of time so is highly predictive over a large sample period (such as a season) and highly unlikely therefore that if his xA is 4.33, that he has actually set up 10 clear chances this season despite what the eye test tells you.

Separately, I really think we need a specialist right winger. One of our big issues in recent years has been fitting round pegs in square holes. It all has a cumulative effect on team play. We've seen how playing on the right has hampered the productivity of Martial, Rashford and even James in comparison to when they play on the left.
I think we need a right wing forward akin to Rashford but on the right, which is why Greenwood has been such a great fit as he can naturally play that role. One of the main requirements to the role is being able to cut in onto your stronger foot even against tight or packed defenses, and have a shot at goal, and Greenwood is deadly at that.

The issue with Sancho is, he will obviously be more natural at this from the left than from the right, which is why your point about round pegs applies to him as well at least in theory. If he does come and plays equally as well on the right as on the left, I'd be surprised as it usually doesn't happen. Even the Ronaldo's and Messi's of the world prefer to play inverted and are slightly less effective on the other side.
 
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Al Capone

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He's an England International. He is clearly marketable with the younger audience who will flock to buy his shirt. The money would be clawed back in the most from merchandise alone.

I think at the end of the season this will be wrapped pretty soon as dortmund will want ample time to replace him and may well be identifying targets as we speak so they don't get held over a barrel by teams with the money they get from us.

We always get our targets late for one reason or another and end up missing out on the player settling and getting to know them team on the pitch playing friendlies.
 

Bojan Djordjic

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I don't usually buy into any of the transfer muppetry but you can just kind of sense this is nailed on can't you? We should be in a position to get him at a decent price considering the current financial climate. I don't particularly rate him as high as many seem to but he'll do a job and fit in with the lads we have and system we use comfortably.
Our attack is very biased towards the left side of the pitch and we can frequently see that teams aren't even covering the right due to AWB's temerity in attack and Greenwood's tendency to pull inside. I think if Sancho's purchase means that teams have to cover this space because of his much more significant threat, it should create far more space all over the pitch which should help us work attacking positions.

I think people are underestimating Sancho's playmaking abilities. His decision making and productivity is off the charts and he's barely out of his teenage years. Look how much Sterling or even Rashford has improved since they were Sancho's age and neither of them were performing at that level or that consistency.
 

Rozay

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Saw some quotes earlier from him confirming he is not actually a Chelsea fan as often mentioned.
 

beingshe7don

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If we seal Sancho we should go for Varane next this might be the best chance to get him Madrid are on the decline we are improving and we are atttractive with Bruno Pogba Martial etc
Madrid just won the league after 2 to 3 years. How are they exactly in decline? Varane is no doubt a CB that would complement Maguire but he would cost a lot of money. Madrid are in the rebuilding phase and losing Varane wouldn't be something Zidane would be okay with.
 

Thisistheone

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I honestly think it would be a bad move if we were to sign Sancho this Summer.

A £100m transfer fee would simply put too much pressure on the young man’s shoulders. The fans and the media would expect him to give near 10 out of 10 performances week in week out – and he simply wouldn’t do that.
Everything I've seen and read about Sancho suggests he has the personality that would relish the type of pressure that comes with playing for Utd and being a star.
 

-Supreme-

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I think we need a right wing forward akin to Rashford, but on the right, which is why Greenwood has been such a great fit, as he can naturally play that role. One of the main requirements to the role is being able to cut in onto your stronger foot, even against tight or packed defenses, and have a shot at goal and greenwood is deadly at that.

The issue with Sancho is, he will obviously be more natural at this from the left than from the right, which is why your point about round pegs applies to him as well, at least in theory. If he does come and plays equally as well on the right as on the left, I'd be surprised as it usually doesn't happen. Even the Ronaldo's and Messi's of the world prefer to play inverted and are slightly less effective on the other side.
Yep, couldn't agree more. I have stressed numerous times the importance of having a left footed player on the right flank.

He'd be up against compact PL defences and we won't be as attack minded compared to BvB as we would get punished in the PL... unlike in the Bundesliga.
 

Andycoleno9

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There seems to be a lot of public posturing over the price, which would suggest that there is some talks going on in the background. I think a deal will eventually get done but it’s going to drag out for the rest of the summer in typical Woodward/Glazer style.
This time it is only logical choice to drag this transfer. This will be who will blink first situation. Dortmund know that they must sell him because next year his price will be much lower due his contract ending 2022. We want him but we don't want to spend 100 mil in this post covid market.
We will offer 60 mil maybe, they will say no chance. And then....waiting time.

I don't expect that anything will be solved until last days of transfer window.
 

Al Capone

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I mean, indirectly, it is true. One way or another, signing a super-marketable footballer would bring money into the club.
True. Its something Madrid and Barcelona are pretty good at to recoup much of the transfer fee. Mind you when you buy marquee players like they used to it makes it easier to make money through merchandise.

Whichever way you look at it. He will be a good signing for us.
 

Cliche Guevara

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I mean, indirectly, it is true. One way or another, signing a super-marketable footballer would bring money into the club.
Does it really though? Does Man Utd need Jadon Sancho for publicity and to sell merchandise?

It’s probably far more beneficial for the player. In any event marketing a player gets absolutely nowhere near to paying towards his cost any reference which makes this link should rightly be destroyed.
 

He'sRaldo

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Yep, couldn't agree more. I have stressed numerous times the importance of having a left footed player on the right flank.

He'd be up against compact PL defences and we won't be as attack minded compared to BvB as we would get punished in the PL... unlike in the Bundesliga.
Agreed. Dortmund's attackers usually are able to play almost all attacking positions on the pitch. Reus, Gotze, Kagawa, Mkhitaryan, Sancho, and Hazard have all had extended periods playing RW, LW, AM , and some even ST, with similar performance levels. But for at least 3 of those players, they couldn't replicate that elsewhere.

That's why it's best to focus on what the player's best position would be, which in Sancho's case would most likely be LW. Hence he may very well be a round peg for our RW issue (which may not even be a pressing issue anymore with Greenwood). And if Sancho is being bought to rotate with the front 4, 100M for a rotation player with other positions not fully sorted wouldn't be the smartest move.
 

Rozay

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Does it really though? Does Man Utd need Jadon Sancho for publicity and to sell merchandise?

It’s probably far more beneficial for the player. In any event marketing a player gets absolutely nowhere near to paying towards his cost any reference which makes this link should rightly be destroyed.
It shouldn’t be destroyed at all. Having the world’s most famous players will earn a club a lot of money, for obvious reasons. Hence why players are paid a fortune in image rights. Real have been amongst the highest earning clubs for years, and if they did not go around buying Galacticos and instead bought less glamorous players - they wouldn’t have the same prestige and income.

If United signed Mbappé and Neymar we would be cemented as the most marketable club in football.
 

MadDogg

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I honestly think it would be a bad move if we were to sign Sancho this Summer.

A £100m transfer fee would simply put too much pressure on the young man’s shoulders. The fans and the media would expect him to give near 10 out of 10 performances week in week out – and he simply wouldn’t do that.

You only have to look at Paul Pogba to see how an astronomical transfer fee can affect a player. Not only have we seen it in his performances over the years, but we actually now have inside information that backs up the argument...

Ex-United coach Emilo Álvarez, when giving a recent interview about his fallout with De Gea, was asked about Paul Pogba’s talents, and he gave this response:
“At United, he was weighed down by the responsibility and the pressure of being a multi-million euro signing.”

I think the best situation all round would be to wait a year, and then Sancho will have 12 months remaining on his contract, and he will then be available for around £50m.

This Summer I would be more than happy if we sign Jack Grealish. He’s a proven Premier League player, who in my opinion would bridge the gap between our World class midfielders (Pogba and Bruno), and our good midfielders (Matic, McTominay, and Fred).
If we wait until next year then there will likely be more clubs in for Sancho, which will push the price back up. He won't be 'that' much cheaper and we'll miss out on a year of him playing for us. Look at how much a 28yo Hazard cost Real Madrid when he only had a season left on his contract. He may also get annoyed that we don't seem to want him enough to actually pay for him, which will give other clubs the edge. That seemed to happen with Sanchez, where he originally wanted City but they kept stringing him and Arsenal along so they'd get him for cheap so he turned around and signed somewhere else when we gave him the opportunity.

As for Pogba, it wasn't so much the price tag by itself. It was the team as a whole was shit so people then expected him to do everything by himself and drag us to victories. Sancho would be coming in to a much better team where the responsibilities are shared amongst numerous players.
 

Adam-Utd

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Does it really though? Does Man Utd need Jadon Sancho for publicity and to sell merchandise?

It’s probably far more beneficial for the player. In any event marketing a player gets absolutely nowhere near to paying towards his cost any reference which makes this link should rightly be destroyed.
Of course, just look at the effect Ronaldo has.

Obviously he and Messi are on a different planet but more and more these days people are supporting individuals rather than teams. Whoever they play for, they'll support that team. Same with certain managers also it seems!

Sancho has a big following with the younger fans, they like his skills and that he's friends with young rappers etc.
 

Skeezix

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We need him soon. Sancho can rotate with our front 3 of MMA. They all get enough rest in turns and enough motivation at the same time to not lose their place to the other terrific 3.
 

Al Capone

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Of course, just look at the effect Ronaldo has.

Obviously he and Messi are on a different planet but more and more these days people are supporting individuals rather than teams. Whoever they play for, they'll support that team. Same with certain managers also it seems!

Sancho has a big following with the younger fans, they like his skills and that he's friends with young rappers etc.
Yup there are only a handful of players who can branch and form links with other industries. All of this exposure and extra revenue from image rights etc etc surely can't hurt UTDs finances. He is a top footballer with the marketability potential.
 
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