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Jarrad Branthwaite

ayushreddevil9

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And buy who? Inacio for 60m, Silva for 100m, Yoro for 70m? Scalvini for 65m? They are all expensive.
Just like Spurs found their dutch CB for cheap? Villa with Torres? Gabriel went for 25m. There are options to be found.
 

Rozay

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Just like Spurs found their dutch CB for cheap? Villa with Torres? Gabriel went for 25m. There are options to be found.
And there are different risk elements attached too. And 50m for VdV was not cheap, and Villareal also wanted 70m for Torres and Villa waited a couple of years for a favourable contract situation to get him for less. We don’t know what the final price for Branthwaite will be, but he’s in a group of highly rated young centre halves in the game and all of them are expensive, home and abroad. If we do go abroad, I’d want us to be signing one of the most highly rated young centre halves, but they are all 50m+. We could get a 20m player, but then chances are, we’d have a 20m player.
 

ayushreddevil9

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And there are different risk elements attached too. And 50m for VdV was not cheap, and Villareal also wanted 70m for Torres and Villa waited a couple of years for a favourable contract situation to get him for less. We don’t know what the final price for Branthwaite will be, but he’s in a group of highly rated young centre halves in the game and all of them are expensive, home and abroad. If we do go abroad, I’d want us to be signing one of the most highly rated young centre halves, but they are all 50m+. We could get a 20m player, but then chances are, we’d have a 20m player.
We did that with Sancho.

Risks are attached everywhere. What different would we be doing if we just keep spalshing cash on prospects who might not come good?

Other clubs are able to find quality players for cheap then why cant we? This mentality of overspending has gotten us nowhere and we have a ton of holes to fix and if you think splashing 70m on a prospect is good then there's nothing to argue about really.
 

Rozay

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We did that with Sancho.

Risks are attached everywhere. What different would we be doing if just keep spalshing cash on prospects who might not come good?

Other clubs are able to find quality players for cheap then why cant we? This mentality has gotten us nowhere and we have a ton of holes to fix and if you think splashing 70m on a prospect is good then there's nothing to argue about really.
Going for the players we don’t want will get us nowhere. It has nothing to do with ‘splashing 70m’. My logic is a simple one. Go after the players that you want and identify to improve your team. If you decide that you want Branthwaite as your first choice, and he costs 70m - then buy him if you can afford to. And if you cannot, buy the one you want most from the options you can afford.

We bought Sancho because we identified him and could afford him. Any suggestion that we should just buy a player that we want less because he costs less, even though we could afford the one we want, makes no sense to me. If players become genuinely ‘too expensive’ for us, the market will take care of itself and we will make the necessary choices, as does any club and any person who has money and buys things with it.
 

Redivy

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Are people still surprised we are quoted such high prices for English Premier League players? We've been through this with Maguire and AWB already.

Now on Branthwaite, I actually think he is a pretty good player, but I'd rather spend 40-50 million on Diomande as I think he is a better player. In an ideal world you would get both because we need more than one centre back. And if we are going to spend 75 million, I'd rather us bring in Antonio Silva who I think is the best CB talent in Europe at the moment.

Realistically we could sign Diomande from Sporting, and Ronnie Edwards who is a rising talent out of Petersborough for a combined 50-55 million.
 

ayushreddevil9

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Going for the players we don’t want will get us nowhere. It has nothing to do with ‘splashing 70m’. My logic is a simple one. Go after the players that you want and identify to improve your team. If you decide that you want Branthwaite as your first choice, and he costs 70m - then buy him if you can afford to. And if you cannot, buy the one you want most from the options you can afford.

We bought Sancho because we identified him and could afford him. Any suggestion that we should just buy a player that we want less because he costs less, even though we could afford the one we want, makes no sense to me. If players become genuinely ‘too expensive’ for us, the market will take care of itself and we will make the necessary choices, as does any club and any person who has money and buys things with it.
And I'm arguing that we can't afford to. We couldnt even keep Reguilon for 6 more months.

We were running out of cash and still spent 86m on Antony so don't tell me that this club will suddenly become the smartest club in the world and work differently.

Other clubs do just as good with their 2nd/3rd choice signings (Arsenal when they missed out on Buendia, Martinez.. Klopp with Salah etc).
 

Rozay

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And I'm arguing that we can't afford to. We couldnt even keep Reguilon for 6 more months.

We were running out of cash and still spent 86m on Antony so don't tell me that this club will suddenly become the smartest club in the world and work differently.

Other clubs do just as good with their 2nd/3rd choice signings (Arsenal when they missed out on Buendia, Martinez.. Klopp with Salah etc).
And you think Manchester United signs all of our first choice targets? And what we could afford to do last summer isn’t the same as this summer. And again, if it turned out that we can only spend 10m this summer, then we won’t be buying Branthwaite anyway. He will of course only be signed if we can do so within our budget and priorities. Arsenal paid 105m for their first choice midfield target last summer you didn’t mention.
 

Adnan

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We're going to try and negotiate the price down to £50m according to David McDonnell. I think Everton will sell for £60m? and the difference between Branthwaite and Maguire is that Branthwaite has the pace and physicality to defend in a highline. I think if we managed to sign Branthwaite and one of Diomande or Yoro, then I think that's a strong base to build a strong attacking foundation. I don't think many of these CBs are going to come cheap either and even Diomande has a €80m release clause which possibly could be negotiated. I think Spurs got a great deal with Van de Ven and the the €50m they spent on him looks money well spent, but I think it's extremely important to bring in the right profile of players for the system you want to develop. I'm not saying we should spend £70m plus on young players but around the £60m mark seems reasonable in the current market for young up and coming CBs.




There's also other options at LCB like Lukeba but he won't come cheap either from Red Bull Leipzig.
 

Grande

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We're going to try and negotiate the price down to £50m according to David McDonnell. I think Everton will sell for £60m? and the difference between Branthwaite and Maguire is that Branthwaite has the pace and physicality to defend in a highline. I think if we managed to sign Branthwaite and one of Diomande or Yoro, then I think that's a strong base to build a strong attacking foundation. I don't think many of these CBs are going to come cheap either and even Diomande has a €80m release clause which possibly could be negotiated. I think Spurs got a great deal with Van de Ven and the the €50m they spent on him looks money well spent, but I think it's extremely important to bring in the right profile of players for the system you want to develop. I'm not saying we should spend £70m plus on young players but around the £60m mark seems reasonable in the current market for young up and coming CBs.




There's also other options at LCB like Lukeba but he won't come cheap either from Red Bull Leipzig.
What happened to Todibo?
 

ayushreddevil9

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And you think Manchester United signs all of our first choice targets? And what we could afford to do last summer isn’t the same as this summer. And again, if it turned out that we can only spend 10m this summer, then we won’t be buying Branthwaite anyway. He will of course only be signed if we can do so within our budget and priorities. Arsenal paid 105m for their first choice midfield target last summer you didn’t mention.
Yes, they did. But they had to settle for their 2nd/3rd choice targets before they became a cohesive unit and before they started playing with their identity. Players like Rice wouldn't have joined Arsenal 2-3 years ago.

We should try to do the same.
 

Woziak

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Or he plays right back because Dalot had to move into CM to enable Mainoo to become our new striker.
You know Martinez started as CDM right and is flexible enough to play Left back, would you prefer him there if he was fit or Lindelof right now ?

Our squad has been decimated most of the season and the lack of flexibility is the main reason for being overrun in midfield, Dalot would be an upgrade in CM than Sofran Amrabat and S Mctominay !
 

NoPace

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Going for the players we don’t want will get us nowhere. It has nothing to do with ‘splashing 70m’. My logic is a simple one. Go after the players that you want and identify to improve your team. If you decide that you want Branthwaite as your first choice, and he costs 70m - then buy him if you can afford to. And if you cannot, buy the one you want most from the options you can afford.
Unless Lisandro is crocked, he won't be first choice though. We're not going to move to 3/5 at the back or play 2 left-footers together.
 

Bondi77

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Not being called for England is irrelevant as long as Gareth Southgate is selecting Kalvin Phillips, Jordan Henderson & Harry Maguire. The man is not exactly famous for finding talent... !!!
It is not down to a national manager to find young talent as that is down to the clubs.
 

Grande

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You know Martinez started as CDM right and is flexible enough to play Left back, would you prefer him there if he was fit or Lindelof right now ?

Our squad has been decimated most of the season and the lack of flexibility is the main reason for being overrun in midfield, Dalot would be an upgrade in CM than Sofran Amrabat and S Mctominay !
That’s just so we can play Amrabat at LB and McTom as a false nine..
 

Nytram Shakes

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We shouldn’t have transfer targets at this stage, untill we have a proper football structure in place, that asses the squad, install a decent scouting network then we shouldn’t be spending and significant money.
 

JJ12

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We shouldn’t have transfer targets at this stage, untill we have a proper football structure in place, that asses the squad, install a decent scouting network then we shouldn’t be spending and significant money.
That would be gross negligence not to have any plans for the summer by this point.

We have a decent scouting network, maybe they'll get listened to under the new regime.
 

tomaldinho1

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You're focusing on specific factors without taking in the whole picture. It's the same when people laugh at Brighton for wanting a lot of money for their players. When you take everything into account, wanting a fee in the range of ~60m for Branthwaite makes complete sense.

You're also ignoring the current market. Players are regularly being traded now for big fees and Branthwaite is being tracked by the top clubs.
Naturally Everton will think it’s a fair price. The thing with Onana and Branthwaite I’m really not sure on, is I’m certain you could find a similar profile of player elsewhere for cheaper. The one thing you pay through the nose for is the ‘PL proven’ nonsense.

When it comes to assessing Branthwaite what has he got that is so rare, what are you paying top dollar for?
 

SilentWitness

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Naturally Everton will think it’s a fair price. The thing with Onana and Branthwaite I’m really not sure on, is I’m certain you could find a similar profile of player elsewhere for cheaper. The one thing you pay through the nose for is the ‘PL proven’ nonsense.

When it comes to assessing Branthwaite what has he got that is so rare, what are you paying top dollar for?
I think the fact that he's what you thought Maguire would be, which understandably will give some United fans some nerves - A technically astute centre-back that plays on the front foot but with the physique of an old school 90s CB.

I think also there is a misconception in the thread that he's all potential. He's only 21 but already performing at a very good level.
 
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sincher

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Promising player but £75m is too much, he is by no means a sure thing. Todibo would be half that.
 

VP89

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Promising player but £75m is too much, he is by no means a sure thing. Todibo would be half that.
£75m? feck me sit and spin :lol:

Braithwaite strikes me as a center back who does everything well enough without being outstanding in any department. No chance he's worth that.
 

tomaldinho1

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I think the fact that he's what you thought Maguire would be, which understandably will give some United fans some nerves - A technically astute centre-back that plays on the front foot but with the physique of an old school 90s CB.

I think also there is a misconception in the thread that he's all potential. He's only 21 but already performing at a very good level.
Yes I am talking about current ability. He certainly is more mobile than Maguire but my fear is Dyche's system likely plays to his strengths and might mask others. I do like he's played in the Dutch league, although it's obviously inferior he'll have seen different tactics but is he that technically astute or just better than average and then it's hyped because he's a big man and it's rarer to see? I don't know the answer but watching him I kind of think it might be the case. Not that he's bad, just that he's decent but it's being exaggerated given his size. Think of how Maguire had a reputation as a 'ball playing CB' basically because England bossed rubbish teams but, in reality, whilst he's no Chris Smalling he's definitely not what people expected in that department.

I always thought pre injury Godrey was the best defender you'd produced for a while, do you rate Braithwaite higher?
 

SilentWitness

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Yes I am talking about current ability. He certainly is more mobile than Maguire but my fear is Dyche's system likely plays to his strengths and might mask others. I do like he's played in the Dutch league, although it's obviously inferior he'll have seen different tactics but is he that technically astute or just better than average and then it's hyped because he's a big man and it's rarer to see? I don't know the answer but watching him I kind of think it might be the case. Not that he's bad, just that he's decent but it's being exaggerated given his size. Think of how Maguire had a reputation as a 'ball playing CB' basically because England bossed rubbish teams but, in reality, whilst he's no Chris Smalling he's definitely not what people expected in that department.

I always thought pre injury Godrey was the best defender you'd produced for a while, do you rate Braithwaite higher?
Nah, he's actually good technically and yes, Dycheball focuses on defending but the individuals still need to do their job within that system and Branthwaite is performing individually very good. He pretty much puts in a 7 or 8/10 performance every week.

Godfrey has regressed sadly, partly due to COVID complications I think and injuries. He's always been a top athlete but a rough footballer and he's made little to no progress on the football part. Branthwaite is way ahead of him.
 

SouthMancRed

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I think the fact that he's what you thought Maguire would be, which understandably will give some United fans some nerves - A technically astute centre-back that plays on the front foot but with the physique of an old school 90s CB.

I think also there is a misconception in the thread that he's all potential. He's only 21 but already performing at a very good level.
I haven't seen much of Everton so was Haaland brushing him aside to score last month an exception? I only saw the goal but was surprised how easily Haaland skipped past him and thought Branthwaite looked like he was still a bit away from the finished article.
 

SilentWitness

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I haven't seen much of Everton so was Haaland brushing him aside to score last month an exception? I only saw the goal but was surprised how easily Haaland skipped past him and thought Branthwaite looked like he was still a bit away from the finished article.
Well, I think if you watch that you'll see that it's a simple case of Branthwaite getting his feet muddled which I'd put more down to bad luck rather than Haaland brushing him aside. Aside from that he was the main reason we shut them out in the first half.

He's a young defender, he will make mistakes or get his fair share of bad luck, heck, even the best defenders we have seen in the PL have made mistakes (Rio, Terry, VVD etc), sometimes multiple within seasons.
 

SouthMancRed

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Well, I think if you watch that you'll see that it's a simple case of Branthwaite getting his feet muddled which I'd put more down to bad luck rather than Haaland brushing him aside. Aside from that he was the main reason we shut them out in the first half.

He's a young defender, he will make mistakes or get his fair share of bad luck, heck, even the best defenders we have seen in the PL have made mistakes (Rio, Terry, VVD etc), sometimes multiple within seasons.
I never studied it that closely. I know everyone makes mistakes but was just surprised at how easily Haaland got through especially against someone so highly rated. If it was just a slip up then fair enough. Thanks.
 

bosnian_red

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He's a quality young CB. He would also cost an obscene amount of money, and is a LCB, like Martinez. Sure you can probably "make it work" with putting him at RCB, but is it really smart to start this new era off by spending a ridiculous amount of money because of English player tax on a player who doesn't suit literally the only safe long term player in our defence? Unless we think his injury has fecked him and we are replacing him (which we aren't).

I've gotta say, these links that have come out the past few months are all pretty dumb and just lack logic. Joao Neves? Sure let's spend 100m on a 19 year old who excels playing the exact same role as Kobbie Mainoo. Branthwaite? Sure let's spend 75m on a young CB to replace our youngest and best CB (who is a LCB only) while the others are all RCB's, 30+ years old, crocks, not good enough and need replacing. Olise as well, though at least the logic is sound there as in he'd just replace Antony who is shite. But Olise is falling into the same sort of trap as someone like Sancho for me and not appreciating the quality bar that you actually need to reach as an attacker for top clubs and he'd just be a squad player anyway.
 

DownRiver

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Him and Martinez are both left footed. One of them won’t be happy from the go if both are fighting for that LCB spot.
 

Righteous Steps

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I'm not being naive when i say you can literally find a cb of a similar age at a similar level for half the quoted 70m price on the continent(France, Spain, Germany).
 

Righteous Steps

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And there are different risk elements attached too. And 50m for VdV was not cheap, and Villareal also wanted 70m for Torres and Villa waited a couple of years for a favourable contract situation to get him for less. We don’t know what the final price for Branthwaite will be, but he’s in a group of highly rated young centre halves in the game and all of them are expensive, home and abroad. If we do go abroad, I’d want us to be signing one of the most highly rated young centre halves, but they are all 50m+. We could get a 20m player, but then chances are, we’d have a 20m player.
Not necessarily at all.
 

Lu Tze

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Him and Martinez are both left footed. One of them won’t be happy from the go if both are fighting for that LCB spot.
Perhaps we should go for the plan Arteta had for Martinez and have him as an inverted left back that steps into midfield to help with build up. He'd get torched occasionally by fast wingers but it would mean we didn't have an aerial issue at CB.
 

SilentWitness

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Perhaps we should go for the plan Arteta had for Martinez and have him as an inverted left back that steps into midfield to help with build up. He'd get torched occasionally by fast wingers but it would mean we didn't have an aerial issue at CB.
Pep would definitely utilise Martinez like he does Ake at LB.
 

DJ_21

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Perhaps we should go for the plan Arteta had for Martinez and have him as an inverted left back that steps into midfield to help with build up. He'd get torched occasionally by fast wingers but it would mean we didn't have an aerial issue at CB.
That’s how we’re using either Shaw or Dalot aren’t we. One of them come inside to form a back 3. Newcastle have done it with Dan burns aswell where they’ve turned him to a Lb. It works with him though as he’s quite physical so won’t be bullied as much.
 

Lu Tze

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That’s how we’re using either Shaw or Dalot aren’t we. One of them come inside to form a back 3. Newcastle have done it with Dan burns aswell where they’ve turned him to a Lb. It works with him though as he’s quite physical so won’t be bullied as much.
Yes, it makes sense for me to swap our traditional focus from double overlapping FBs to focusing play down the right given that Shaw is a permacrock and Rashford is shit.

I'd rather have Dalot and Garnacho do the overlapping thing and have Martinez off the left. While he's brilliant I think in the long term, we have to ensure both CBs are aerially dominant. So fitting him in at LB makes a lot of sense.

If you twinned that with a left footed and fast DM that could also help to cover that area of the pitch, all the better.