DavidDeSchmikes
Full Member
- Joined
- Jan 20, 2013
- Messages
- 17,276
So what are people's thoughts on the Panorama documentary?
This doesn't really answer the Formby thing at all, who was clearly interfering in the case (you can say it was for good reasons as they have said in response, but they'd also previously said there hadn't been any interference had they not? and it wasn't just about speed, it was about the makeup of the panels), sending stuff to and from non-Labour accounts (given they're so hot on GDPR, this seems odd), and saying she's deleting all traces of the email. None of that is being disputed, it seems. I'm also willing to believe there might be one person who was employed by the party in disputes that had enough axes to grind to make so much stuff up, but multiple people, that also got signed off from working?
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
Oh I wasn't saying that tweet answer Formby thing at all more than it was another thing the BBC fail to give full context on(Although if the Labour press account is getting hacked then I can why she would want to use a personal email.)This doesn't really answer the Formby thing at all, who was clearly interfering in the case (you can say it was for good reasons as they have said in response, but they'd also previously said there hadn't been any interference had they not? and it wasn't just about speed, it was about the makeup of the panels), sending stuff to and from non-Labour accounts (given they're so hot on GDPR, this seems odd), and saying she's deleting all traces of the email. None of that is being disputed, it seems. I'm also willing to believe there might be one person who was employed by the party in disputes that had enough axes to grind to make so much stuff up, but multiple people, that also got signed off from working?
Come on now that wasn't a mistake that got through by accident.Conversely, the Milne misquote is woeful, crazy that that was let through. They should release the full docs sharpish.
It accidentally got put in the show and the press release put out before the show to make people watch it.Come on now that wasn't a mistake that got through by accident.
Pretty much this.So what are people's thoughts on the Panorama documentary?
Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
I'll need to give the full thing a read to give a full comment...but I dunno, on first glance, this comment just stuck out to me as...weird? Like, I dunno, it just seems to me as such a strange thing to say about a minority group who are largely claiming there has been discrimination against them. Compared to any other group who I imagine Labour would stand up for there just seems to be so much reluctance and doubt in recognising that there's even an issue here. I mean, I remain unsure how legitimate certain accusations are, but generally when groups are being discriminated against their voices are rightfully considered to be the primary perspective and the key voice you want to hear. And their views can be analysed but here the suggestion seems to be that they inherently need to be questioned and doubted, that there's a somewhat decent chance they're lying, or being hysterical, or somehow being a bit shady about the whole thing.Similarly, the testimonies of Jewish members were left to float without context and response.
It wasn't a group chat with friends , it was a prime time documentary investigating anti semtism in the Labour Party. Not matter what the minority I would expect a investigative documentary to push for as much detail as possible. The documentary fail to do this a number of times.I'll need to give the full thing a read to give a full comment...but I dunno, on first glance, this comment just stuck out to me as...weird? Like, I dunno, it just seems to me as such a strange thing to say about a minority group who are largely claiming there has been discrimination against them. Compared to any other group who I imagine Labour would stand up for there just seems to be so much reluctance and doubt in recognising that there's even an issue here. I mean, I remain unsure how legitimate certain accusations are, but generally when groups are being discriminated against their voices are rightfully considered to be the primary perspective and the key voice you want to hear. And their views can be analysed but here the suggestion seems to be that they inherently need to be questioned and doubted, that there's a somewhat decent chance they're lying, or being hysterical, or somehow being a bit shady about the whole thing.
https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...tchdog-could-rule-on-whether-labour-broke-lawThe EHRC said it “can only commence an investigation where we suspect that an organisation has committed an unlawful act”, using powers introduced when the last Labour government passed the Equality Act in 2006.
I wonder if the EHRC are also blairite zionists making things up to undermine corbyn
https://www.theguardian.com/news/20...tchdog-could-rule-on-whether-labour-broke-lawThe EHRC said it “can only commence an investigation where we suspect that an organisation has committed an unlawful act”, using powers introduced when the last Labour government passed the Equality Act in 2006.
indeed and its even more obvious that there is credible evidence of a problem when the EHRC decision to prosecute is also factored inI feel a lot of people are putting their fingers in their ears and shouting "la la la, I can't hear you".
The suggestion that a load of disaffected ex-employees banded together and decided that, you know what, lets accuse the Labour Party of antisemitism, is rather fanciful.
The fact that 15 people have already been excluded from the Labour Party for antisemitic behaviour, suggests that there may actually be a problem here.
If you can't accept that then, ask yourself, are you, yourself, part of the problem, or is it that you just can't accept that the only party whose principles you approve of have let you down by not following the principles you approve of.
holy shit that's so many15 people have already been excluded from the Labour Party for antisemitic behaviour
It's most definitely both. The only reason the issue has been weaponised is that there is something their to begin with. It's fanciful to think politicians who don't like the new direction the party is going in wouldn't weaponise such an issue, especially when you have a lot of sub-parties within Labour.I feel a lot of people are putting their fingers in their ears and shouting "la la la, I can't hear you".
The suggestion that a load of disaffected ex-employees banded together and decided that, you know what, lets accuse the Labour Party of antisemitism, is rather fanciful.
The fact that 15 people have already been excluded from the Labour Party for antisemitic behaviour, suggests that there may actually be a problem here.
If you can't accept that then, ask yourself, are you, yourself, part of the problem, or is it that you just can't accept that the only party whose principles you approve of have let you down by not following the principles you approve of.
I guess that makes it alright then, the fact that 'only' 15 have been excluded? presumably, that's in the last couple of years.holy shit that's so many
oh my god that's literally the most racist thing that's ever happened i've changed my mind about everything and will be voting for boris johnsonWhat do you think of this then?
If you can't accept that then, ask yourself, are you, yourself, part of the problem
I'm not sure any other minority group would be faced with the same level of scrutiny or doubt when making claims that they've been discriminated against. Just above you've got a clip where people who have been faced with mental health issues are being branded as 'wimps' and the like even when some have threatened suicide.It wasn't a group chat with friends , it was a prime time documentary investigating anti semtism in the Labour Party. Not matter what the minority I would expect a investigative documentary to push for as much detail as possible. The documentary fail to do this a number of times.
literally everyone, like read any thread about anything on any forum and you'll find people being all like "uh, have you tried not being depressed" "uh, have you tried being a hermit who never goes out" etc. etc.I'm not sure any other minority group would be faced with the same level of scrutiny or doubt when making claims that they've been discriminated against. Just above you've got a clip where people who have been faced with mental health issues are being branded as 'wimps' and the like even when some have threatened suicide.
Which I think is my overriding problem with a lot of the discourse surrounding this. Labour are a party who, on the left, are supposed to have sympathy with and who are supposed to side with ordinary people, and yet there appears to have been an almost complete ignorance from a lot of the party who don't think this is a problem that these people have had fairly horrible experiences at all.
You think that's benign?of all the examples of antisemitism in the labour party, of all the follow up quotes etc you really have a talent for picking the dullest most benign shit in the world
These types of things should not be getting said by people within a socially progressive left-wing party that's supposed to care about ordinary people.literally everyone, like read any thread about anything on any forum and you'll find people being all like "uh, have you tried not being depressed" "uh, have you tried being a hermit who never goes out" etc. etc.
Those comments all come from assholes.literally everyone, like read any thread about anything on any forum and you'll find people being all like "uh, have you tried not being depressed" "uh, have you tried being a hermit who never goes out" etc. etc.
sure and hopefully she learns that, but the idea that it's only jews who get this treatment is just stupidThese types of things should not be getting said by people within a socially progressive left-wing party that's supposed to care about ordinary people.
aren't you one the more prominent "uh, why is PC and cancel culture so extreme these days" posters?Those comments all come from assholes.
And when you find yourself on the same side of the debate as assholes...
I got back late last night so only saw the last 15 minutes, but Sam Matthews and the woman with the haircut, was their position within the party complaint handlers? Genuinely asking because I didn't understand if they had been personally attacked (which seems most likely), or if the nature of the complaints proved too difficult or something.Tweet
— Twitter API (@user) date
feck stuff like this.
Of course not, but it feeds into this wider idea (true or otherwise) that for all their claims to supporting social justice and reducing inequality this party really don't care about helping ordinary people when they go against the party line or party agenda. I'll agree a lot of the claims that this is somehow unique or a problem within Labour alone are often overplayed and over-exaggerated, but I get the impression that even if there were actual problems a lot of the party would continue to keep their heads buried in the sand because they're determined their can't be a problem at all.sure and hopefully she learns that, but the idea that it's only jews who get this treatment is just stupid
Also this attitude clearly isn’t working in the polls so... what’s the point of it? It’s just champion grade sand burying at this point. It also appears to be the diametric opposite of the arguments being used by American leftists, who consistently argue (hi Eboue) that “voting to keep out Trump” was insufficient enough to vote for Hillary, or any establishment Dem, and that that is all their own fault... yet here, our version (which I would largely consider myself a part of) are seemingly arguing the same thing that their dreaded Centrist enemies are there... that convincing people of the Labour movement is irrelevant, ‘cos if you don’t just vote to keep out the Tories you’re a cnut.* It’s all a complete clusterfeck.I'm not sure any other minority group would be faced with the same level of scrutiny or doubt when making claims that they've been discriminated against. Just above you've got a clip where people who have been faced with mental health issues are being branded as 'wimps' and the like even when some have threatened suicide.
Which I think is my overriding problem with a lot of the discourse surrounding this. Labour are a party who, on the left, are supposed to have sympathy with and who are supposed to side with ordinary people, and yet there appears to have been an almost complete ignorance from a lot of the party who don't think this is a problem that these people have had fairly horrible experiences at all.
AgainI'm not sure any other minority group would be faced with the same level of scrutiny or doubt when making claims that they've been discriminated against.
Also did you watch the documentary ?It wasn't a group chat with friends , it was a prime time documentary investigating anti semtism in the Labour Party. Not matter what the minority I would expect a investigative documentary to push for as much detail as possible. The documentary fail to do this a number of times.
Er...we talking about the BBC show last night and the blog I posted.Just above you've got a clip where people who have been faced with mental health issues are being branded as 'wimps' and the like even when some have threatened suicide..
This discourse stuff is meaningless(In that it can be anything to anyone). The fact is the Labour party has in a number of ways put in place measures to deal with the anti semitism(Some of this by the way has pissed off Palestinians but whatever I guess) in the party.Which I think is my overriding problem with a lot of the discourse surrounding this. Labour are a party who, on the left, are supposed to have sympathy with and who are supposed to side with ordinary people, and yet there appears to have been an almost complete ignorance from a lot of the party who don't think this is a problem that these people have had fairly horrible experiences at all.
that's just how politics work and why people vote for party x instead of y when leaderships change, it would be foolish to pretend that a corbyn labour would have the same agenda as a watson labourOf course not, but it feeds into this wider idea (true or otherwise) that for all their claims to supporting social justice and reducing inequality this party really don't care about helping ordinary people when they go against the party line or party agenda.
i don't think anyone here has made that argumentyet here, our version (which I would largely consider myself a part of) are seemingly arguing the same thing that their dreaded Centrist enemies are there... that convincing people of the Labour movement is irrelevant, ‘cos if you don’t just vote to keep out the Tories you’re a cnut.* It’s all a complete clusterfeck.
What’s the implication behind this then? If not “this isn’t really that important, ‘cos Tories”...i don't think anyone here has made that argument
This whole thread is covered in Whatsbboutism... which is fine for me, I’m not in need of being convinced. But as a countrywide approach to electability, it isn’t working.oh my god that's literally the most racist thing that's ever happened i've changed my mind about everything and will be voting for boris johnson
it's a very obvious exaggeration which you also constantly use in your posts to undermine the other poster, in this case a life long tory pretending to give a shit about racismWhat’s the implication behind this then? If not “this isn’t really that important, ‘cos Tories”...