I reckon he can still shithouse his way to 6th and a league cup or something. That wouldn't necessarily be a terrible season for spuds.
Jose Mourinho Sack Watch | Sacked per 19-04
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Not looking good for cult leader Jose, tough times for his acolytes and followers.
I don’t think José knows how to motivate modern players. Early in his career he had players who, for the most part, didn’t develop with the comfort of massive contracts and financial security like many do today. It’s possible his us versus them, go through the fire, sacrifice your body type rhetoric doesn’t vibe well with multimillionaire men in their 20’s who don’t want to have a limp or be in daily pain when they retire. Some of his interactions with Hazard and Pogba, as examples, suggest this. It can work for a while but eventually will become exhausting.
Combine this with a generally more attacking style pervading the league and it’s no surprise his message gets lost, especially when there are other managers who can be just as demanding but offer a better environment and style of play in return.
He used to be able to look at his squads and tell them that if they do as he says they will win, I’m not sure that’s enough these days (or even particularly true!).
I’ll always love the guy, I’d back his first Chelsea team against any other I've ever seen, but I struggle to see how he makes it anywhere near back to the heights of his early career.
Combine this with a generally more attacking style pervading the league and it’s no surprise his message gets lost, especially when there are other managers who can be just as demanding but offer a better environment and style of play in return.
He used to be able to look at his squads and tell them that if they do as he says they will win, I’m not sure that’s enough these days (or even particularly true!).
I’ll always love the guy, I’d back his first Chelsea team against any other I've ever seen, but I struggle to see how he makes it anywhere near back to the heights of his early career.
fecker was giving it big in the Spurs documentary. Saying how managing football is the only thing he knows and loves and how anything else was a false life.
Great post
It's now 2 year cycles with him. Things go bust in the 2nd year.
Acolytes will still praise their lord.
Probably, we should look behind and quote some drivel posted in here during his time, some mental stuff.
REAL MADRID!
Managers have a finite lifespan at the top. It’s just like players, you have a peak, and then a point where you’re past your peak. The only exception to this is SAF, which makes him even more remarkable, but there’s no shame in a manager being past their best. It happens to everyone.
What is important is having the self awareness to realize when that time has come, and bow out of the top level with grace, like Carlo going from Bayern to Everton without burning down the world around him.
Jose is very entertaining for sure as a person on the tv pundit scene. He was great in his tactics early on in his career. Even at United when he beat Ajax his tactics was spot on.
I think he should go back to Portugal. His fights with the press in Spain and Italy was acrimonious. I don't think Spurs have got better players than Everton. That said Spurs and Everton both should have scored before half time. Who is his assistant at Spurs?
I think he should go back to Portugal. His fights with the press in Spain and Italy was acrimonious. I don't think Spurs have got better players than Everton. That said Spurs and Everton both should have scored before half time. Who is his assistant at Spurs?
As opposed to saying "I will try to do an OK job. So God help me"?
He is one of the top paid managers in the world. He will not let his value tank by his own mouth. His value would go down automatically when clubs decide he is not going to do anymore magic. Till then there is no reason for him to downplay himself.
Hell, even Moyes talked himself into new jobs multiple times. So Jose can still go on about how good he is.
Or you know, he can try to evolve his game plans and tactics according to how the game has moved on. Problem with Mourinho isn't so much that he is past his best, it's just that he is so stuck up in that one style of play. Especially now that things haven't been going for him, he is reverting to what he knows well instead of trying to understand that his style of play is the actual reason why things aren't working out for him anymore.
That and the fact that he just burns bridges with everyone wherever he goes, with the exception of perhaps Inter.
What happened to Jose? the same thing that happened to Wenger. Two stubborn men who have no plan B or adaptability.
Question for our Portuguese posters... would you even take him as the NT manager at this point?
Such vitriol from a person who has probably achieved nothing..
I’m interested to see what happens to Mou, but I’m an MUFC fan first and foremost. Not invested in the Mou story.
Hence the greatness of Sir Alex. He went through 25 years of adapting.
How did he mitigate? He hired different coaches for different eras. Steve Mclaren was so different from Carlos Quieroz and yet they’re only a few years apart.
Sir Alex never let the ego get to him. Always willing to learn. That’s his biggest strength. He was and will always be the God of Pragmatic Football management.
To be fair to Wenger, I think his situation was completely different to Mourinho's now. Wenger still got Arsenal top 4 consistently (we are seeing now that it's not exactly a given, considering the competition), and still won regular FA Cups. He got no backing from their board in the transfer market to ever really aspire for more, but they were still a "fashionable" team, one that was fun to watch and players like playing for teams like that. Mourinho reputation was always that of a winner but with a shit style of play. When you lose the results, you have nothing else to go back on and Mourinho can't really point to a lack of spending or backing. He's just made poor decisions and failed to build any sort of style of play to keep up with current times.
I think wenger wasn't that great, he made "One" great team and milked it for all of his Arsenal Career
I had him down for getting a trophy at Spurs, an FA cup or League cup, maybe Europa. But after watching that Everton game they will be lucky to finish top half, absolute hot garbage. Lucky there were no Spurs fans in the stadium or they would have been boo'd off at half and full time with that kind of display.
The first half had glimpses, second half was just a train wreck of bang average play, uninspiring football involving a lot of route one, and unmotivated players. Gone by Christmas if that is what Spurs are going to put out on the pitch under Jose.
The first half had glimpses, second half was just a train wreck of bang average play, uninspiring football involving a lot of route one, and unmotivated players. Gone by Christmas if that is what Spurs are going to put out on the pitch under Jose.
I think he has passed club football. He should try a national team now. Less pressure.
For the sake of his status, he should go to Serie A. It's easier to challenge Juventus in there than trying to implement his football in EPL and challenge for top 4.
Considering Son and Kane are older than Rashford and Martial, they are more at risk of being ruined by this footballing dinosaur than our lads thankfully were.
I’d move if I were them. They are world class players who need a few trophies on the mantelpiece. Otherwise, they’ll waste their prime years playing for the Portuguese Pulis when their talent deserves big honours like the PL and CL.
I’d move if I were them. They are world class players who need a few trophies on the mantelpiece. Otherwise, they’ll waste their prime years playing for the Portuguese Pulis when their talent deserves big honours like the PL and CL.
What is his style of play again?
If I look at what he did at United and now at Spurs, I hardly think we could categorize the team into a defensive or offensive category. Neither teams look/looked solid in defense or fruitful in offense. For me it all simply looks like chaos. I maybe putting it in too much of layman terms, but somehow I am not able to put his football into any category.
If I look at what he did at United and now at Spurs, I hardly think we could categorize the team into a defensive or offensive category. Neither teams look/looked solid in defense or fruitful in offense. For me it all simply looks like chaos. I maybe putting it in too much of layman terms, but somehow I am not able to put his football into any category.
I remember the opening day of our second season with him. Game against Spurs. His attire was good and he looked fresh and ready to take on the world again. And there was me thinking that Old Jose is back. IIRC we had a good start to the season too. But then things started going south. He, now, is just a parody of his old self.
I think PSG or Inter are the only two possible big jobs that he could land in future. Or International management.
I think PSG or Inter are the only two possible big jobs that he could land in future. Or International management.
It’s not as simple as Real Madrid as he was exceptional there. Won the league with record points and goals and despite getting torn apart by Barcelona a few times which isn’t exactly an embarrassment given how they were probably the greatest team of all time he did well overall.
Raised the bar at Madrid in his last 2 years especially getting ridiculous amounts of points. The team he helped build then went on to win 4 European Cups in 5 years so he can’t have been that bad.
Those El Classico’s he was in really were the start of the modern interpretation of football at the highest level. Intense pressing and quality on the ball to match. Speed and power too up top.
He may not be the best manager anymore but if you gave him Liverpool, Man City or Bayern he’d have them winning most matches. He just had ridiculous squads in the past after his lucky break at Porto.
We can’t judge someone at Spurs or when he came here to those levels. Chelsea weren’t great when he rejoined either. All top managers need a top side to coach and usually the best team wins almost in-spite of their manager.
Chelsea, Real and maybe even Inter he had experience, quality and squad depth too boot. Went on to dominate because they were superior to just about every other side at the time in every department on the field and bench.
Tbf it's not as easy as it seems or the likes of Capello, Sacchi and Trapattoni would've lasted a lot longer than they did.
It'll eventually happen to the current crop of coaches too as the game moves on again. Alex Ferguson managed to keep up by changing his assistants/coaching staff often enough.
Pochettino must be the best manager ever, consider the level he took Spurs. I agree that you can’t judge a manager true quality at the likes of Spurs as they don’t have a big club budget. The expectations their are not the same as United, Liverpool, City, Chelsea, Madrid, Barcelona, etc. Mourinho with a team that cost more than 90% of other teams will have a small glimmer of success. However, that is barely a compliment for Mourinho as that should be the norm for most managers at that level. Regardless, Mourinho still has been our most accomplished manager post Sir Alex and that is because we backed him so much with the players he wanted.
Did he help building that team? Some of the key players in those 3-4 CL wins
Keylor Navas - Signed under Ancelotti
Carvajal - Signed under Ancelotti
Varane - Signed by Jose
Ramos - Way before Jose
Marcelo - Signed way before Jose was their manager
Casemiro - Signed under Rafa or Zidane
Kroos - Signed underAncelotti
Modric - signed under Zidane
Bale - Signed under Ancelotti
Ronaldo - signed before Jose
Benzema - signed before Jose.
Except one or two players, all were signed before or after Jose.
Players who were signed under Jose
Di Maria - Won 1 CL and was shipped out
Ozil - Didn't win CL and shipped out
Khedira - Won 1 CL and shipped out (He barely played too)
Coentrao - Non entity in CL (Almost)
Nuri Sahin - Shipped out immediately
Modric - Main player in all 4 CL wins
He didn't help build anything, all the major players were signed before or after Jose, if anything the results after Jose showed how much he was holding them back.
Once read an article that the average peak of a world class manager lasts about ten years. That after that, the game seems to pass them by.
He can only blame himself for his lack of evolution.
I don't agree with this notion that Madrid broke him or something. I think majority of his problems are tactical. Just look at Zabaleta's story about the West Ham game against Martial. Not only have his tactics become ineffective, they kill the morale of players. Kane had three touches in the box yesterday. Why would any top player bust their gut to play that way?
He can only blame himself for his lack of evolution.
I don't agree with this notion that Madrid broke him or something. I think majority of his problems are tactical. Just look at Zabaleta's story about the West Ham game against Martial. Not only have his tactics become ineffective, they kill the morale of players. Kane had three touches in the box yesterday. Why would any top player bust their gut to play that way?
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There was no vitriol and there's no need for insults, littleman.
I suppose I can't expect any sense from someone who cites Trump as an example of a tale of redemption. If that's what you think then you're bound to hold contradictory opinions.
You claim you're not invested in the story but you think the Mourinho's is the most fascinating in all of football and you get personal over a reasonable question?
He's 'washed-up' by definition in that his powers have waned and he seems no longer capable of doing what once seemed to come easy. He is no longer motivating his players to run through brick walls for him, his tactics seem out-dated and are clearly no longer as effective as they once were and his players seem off the pace. In short, he is no longer successful.
You said yourself that you were hoping for a redemption arc. To be redeemed you must have fallen.
I was genuinely wondering if there had every been such a tale of redemption for a football manager.
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Only 1 game into the season. They looked terrible though and looking at Spurs forum, they have been similarly terrible for 6 months.
One thing that struck me from the cringe, (but interesting) Amazon documentary is his truly awful people skills. If you’re outside of his ‘circle of trust’ you’re doomed. He just can’t handle anyone that doesn’t share his opinion. A lot of what he says to players is either disrespectful or literally makes no sense. He so negative, rarely offers praise and actually tells people how they should feel!!! How can you tell someone how to feel??
I can’t imagine him being an easy manager to relate to or build a relationship with and he seemed clueless when people/players told him anything other than his own narrative.
he makes decisions and his stubbornness appears to prevent any flexibility to change. He likes Dier (warrior) so Dier plays...regardless of limited ability. He knew Erickson was on his way out so he excludes him. Rose goes to raise valid concerns and walks out frustrated basically saying he’s going to Jose’s superior Levy...to which mourinho responds like a child “you do that”
all obviously scripted and therefore an element of acting involved. But the content we have to believe would be similar
I’m so glad he isn’t our problem anymore.
One thing that struck me from the cringe, (but interesting) Amazon documentary is his truly awful people skills. If you’re outside of his ‘circle of trust’ you’re doomed. He just can’t handle anyone that doesn’t share his opinion. A lot of what he says to players is either disrespectful or literally makes no sense. He so negative, rarely offers praise and actually tells people how they should feel!!! How can you tell someone how to feel??
I can’t imagine him being an easy manager to relate to or build a relationship with and he seemed clueless when people/players told him anything other than his own narrative.
he makes decisions and his stubbornness appears to prevent any flexibility to change. He likes Dier (warrior) so Dier plays...regardless of limited ability. He knew Erickson was on his way out so he excludes him. Rose goes to raise valid concerns and walks out frustrated basically saying he’s going to Jose’s superior Levy...to which mourinho responds like a child “you do that”
all obviously scripted and therefore an element of acting involved. But the content we have to believe would be similar
I’m so glad he isn’t our problem anymore.
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The Spurs forum were arguing if Jose failed at United. Some believe we have not improved since he’s left because we achieved less points.
Surely the way players have developed and now play is a factor? Jose will always have his fan club I guess
Surely the way players have developed and now play is a factor? Jose will always have his fan club I guess
They need something to hope for better future with Jose, so this is one way to look at the things.
There might be some truth, we need to improve a lot, our second half of the season form gives me lot of hope but depth is poor which would be very important this season.
Also depends on what points you consider to come up with whether Jose failed or not. He won couple of trophies and 2nd position, so he wasn't a total failure. But Jose wasn't signed to win league cup, he was signed to challenge for CL and PL title, which he didn't achieve. If Jose can't challenge for league and CL then there is no point signing him as he is short term manager, his football is shit, barely improves any young player.
They can't sack Mourinho until the documentary has fully been released and has had time to drop down the amazon ratings list.
He should speak to Marcus about things outside of football that are far from false
One thing I didn't understand vs Everton.
Jose knew he'd play against a team that likes to keep the ball, given their midfield and still played his usual counter attacking shit, even if his team has no counter attacking skills(down to his fault).
Also the midfield he played really resembles "hey, this is the shit midfield I have, I need players".
A 3-5-2 in a high press would've worked alright vs Everton but Jose chose to sit back and give the ball to a team that likes having the ball, it's just fecking dumb.
Jose knew he'd play against a team that likes to keep the ball, given their midfield and still played his usual counter attacking shit, even if his team has no counter attacking skills(down to his fault).
Also the midfield he played really resembles "hey, this is the shit midfield I have, I need players".
A 3-5-2 in a high press would've worked alright vs Everton but Jose chose to sit back and give the ball to a team that likes having the ball, it's just fecking dumb.
His teams never want the ball. He seems to believe that if you don't have the ball you won't give it away in a dangerous position. For him to implement a high press would require a radical shift in thinking which he is yet to display.
That's the thing. He always was with the same coaching set up. Maybe it's time to change something which has not been working for a while.
Jose will never risk space behind his defenders.
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