Yes !! Totally agreed !! People will get their facts right before they criticise him
So I respect Jose for giving it back !!
Jose Mourinho's press conference - Sevilla (H) | 14:00GMT
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So I respect Jose for giving it back !!
Manchester United hasn't been part of the elite of Europe in the last years, is this game one of the most important ones in order to be back?
Well, I think Europe League final was the most important match because we won the competition and that victory brought us to Manchester United natural habitat wich is the Champions League.
Alexis has been criticized so much lately. We saw yesterday that he arrived ten minutes earlier than the rest. So, how does it feel like to have a player like this, a one who always likes to play and gives everyting on the field, like a true professional who loves what he does more than anyone else in the world? He's like a miracle of the universe, am I right? Do you expect something exepcional from him?
He always does the same. I don't see a problem with that. Criticism? Every player is critiziced. He isn't a kid. Alexis has a lot of experience. It can not be easy to play for Barcelona or the international team. He's used to that kind of pressure. I'm sure that he will perform better. And I want a win, not just a shinny performance from him.
If you don't win tomorrow, it will be a failure? If that happens. It will be your fault, obviously.
Failure? I don't know. What can I say? We won against Liverpool and for some people I failed. For me it would be a disappointment. Is it right? Disappointment, that's the word. This team isn't one of best ones, definitely. And we didn't get a good result there, but it wasn't bad either. So, we don't need an unrealistic result to achieve our objective. Then, if we don't win in our home it t would be a disappointment. For me, at least.
I’d rather Jose be like this than moan about fans, tactics, players. Absolutely shat on de Boer. And it’s hilarious.
Thanks a lot. Much appreciated.
Agree. Didn't SAF completely destroy Pardew while he was at Newcastle earlier ?
I actually do like him and spend most of my time on here defending him from silly criticisms. I just don't think he needs to spend so much of his time doing the same thing. Actions speak louder than words. When someone is moaning at you not giving a player a chance, and that player is starting for you and scoring two goals against your main rivals, the person criticising you already looks like an idiot. You don't need to come out two days later and launch a personal attack on them.
It doesn't deter criticism, it invites it. It's inviting a reaction. Then the next bit of criticism comes in, and he has to fight that too. Some fans boo a substition, and he has to fight that too. Gary Neville suggests one of his plaers should be careful not to get sent off, he has to fight that too. It gets to the point where you wonder how much time and energy all this is taking up, and what could possibly be so productive about it for it to be worthwhile.
THe thing is I don't think his character has always been like this, or rather it has, but he seems to have become more and more obsessive with fighting off criticism with attacks, rather than just brushing it off by being an arrogant sod. I remember saying in here when he was back managing Chelsea, that if he didn't stop it he was heading for a meltdown...and he ended up kind of having one. He's not at that stage here but at the same time I'm still not sure what the aim of it all is.
Someone saying "its a pity" x player needs to be guided by you, isn't criticism, but rather a personal attack - suggesting that you individually are the wrong person to be helping this player.
I don't think its a silly criticism, or something that wastes time - I think FdB crossed a line and he will now know better going forward.
It's not the same as critcising a decision, or a tactical play - he is suggesting that Mourinho isn't good enough to coach Rashford - or rather, Mourinho is the wrong person to coach Rashford, and it is a shame that the situation is the way it is.
If I was Mourinho, I would make sure FdB checked himself too.
Actually, you could see at Mourinho when he made that comment that it was tongue in cheek. He sometimes have this deadpan delivery - can't believe that's being overlooked. He had a similiar look when he praised Bailly's "amazing goal"
Even so - who cares? Mourinho is a fighter and he probably loves to create a bit of mischief now and again.
He simply can'tThat's brutal.
How can De Boer reply to that?
It’s not criticism but it’s saying wrong things, things which aren’t true.
A few days ago, guardiola did the same for Gary Neville when the whole ‘didn’t put another youth player on the bench’ thing happened and called him out. Many managers do it
Exactly!
Is this for real? Jose has been sucking up to every manager from Big Sam to Wenger to even Klopp as recently as yesterday since he joined us. Maybe this is a case of seeing things you want to see.
Even his feud with Conte was started when Conte assumed Jose was talking about him, and in the end, it was Jose who stepped forward and shook his hand to end the feud. Even that little spat can be excused as Conte had previously made comments about "avoiding a Mourinho season" and whatnot.
Jose has never picked a fight himself with any manager since he joined us. He's been very polite and even admitted he made mistakes in the past, which is unusual for him.
Thanks, yeah I figured thats what happened.
100% agree. Can't let people talk shit about you.
Appreciate. So that's what he said. He spoke so intensely, very curious.
"...that victory brought us to Manchester United natural habitat wich is the Champions League."
"Criticism? Every player is critiziced."
"Failure? I don't know. What can I say? We won against Liverpool and for some people I failed. For me it would be a disappointment."Is Pogba fit?
I don't understand why anyone thinks this. A few people have said it now.
Jose has been attacking Journos, pundits, other managers and anyone who's had anything to say about him, since he came back to England, and no one is thinking twice at all. The result is that people now line up to criticise him about every insignificant thing, incuding stuff that can't possibly be his fault.
Sir Alex used to pick his moments and targets. Jose just comes out scatter gunning these days. There's no consequence or fear of being on the end of a Jose pipe bomb, because at this point you're just being thrown in the same hat as nearly everyone else.
I just think he'd be better off ignoring it. Shutting people up by proving them wrong works a lot better than by slapping them in the face.
De Boer did go personal but I somewhat agree that he goes overboard sometimes eg the attack on Scholes whose comments were fair or getting angry with groaning matchday fans. Those instances were best left ignored. Not worth picking a fight
Did Scholes also cross the line when he launched into him? Did Conte? Wenger? The other day it was pundits who are ex managers in general...did they all cross the line? A few weeks before he's having a go at them for questioning Pogba's positioning, before that it's something else. Everyone's always crossing the line all the time it seems. You wonder how much of a deterrant insulting them must actually be.
I don't mind him calling up the media for complete bullshit (i.e. actual lies). When it's just opinion, what exactly is he trying to do? What battle is it he's going to win exactly? You can't control people's opinions...you're not going to change a person's opinion or the opinion of anyone who agrees with them, by insulting them. You're not going to stop pundits and journos from spouting shite, considering it's pretty much their job.
You want to shut people up, you do it by proving them wrong. Starting Rashford and Rashford winning the game speaks 1,000 times louder than insulting anyone who criticises you ever will.
Do you guys surprised with how Mourinho behave ? He is always like this when he is confident , he is bastard but he is now our bastard , he and sir alex is really similar in every way
I disagree. The critic will merely say something like 'see, I said he should start Rashford more - just look at how his performances have helped improve the results.'
I hate the way he keeps saying we're not candidates to win the thing. It's killed my excitement a little bit for tomorrow.
I realise it would take a monumental effort to get past Madrid etc but if the boss doesn't believe in the team then why should I?
I realise it would take a monumental effort to get past Madrid etc but if the boss doesn't believe in the team then why should I?
I think everyone knows we are not as good as the very top teams. He did not say we can't win it though.
He hasn't always been like this though. He's been more like it since the later spell of his Madrid days.
He used to be arrogant and cocky, and was still a dick, but he exhumed self confidence. He wouldn't be letting every minor bit of criticism rile him up.
Now he picks at anyone who has a bad thing to say about him. That doesn't exhume confidence. It exhumes insecurity.
I know people lap it up because they think it's funny or clever, but it's not a playground at the end of the day. We don't magically become a better team because Jose said some not very nice things about Frank De Boer, or made fun of Conte's wig.
Nice hyperbole
Not sure you understand what the word hyperbole means.
I'm not even saying it's a major problem, just something I wish he'd stop doing. It serves no purpose
I'm not even saying it's a major problem, just something I wish he'd stop doing. It serves no purpose
What about when you have shut them out and proved them wrong and they still wont shut up? What do you do then? Option 1. You concede to the unfair reality brought to you by your critics and accept you are nothing. 2. You fight back.
His critics can't shut up. That Liverpool game flipped the script and proved a lot of people wrong but instead of it shutting people up, they just use that against us too. Now the ridiculous spin is that Rashford and Lingard is doing well despite Mourinho, and that Mourinho is an idiot that in fact are standing in the way of young players winning us league titles, as they would have if they played more, you know like in the Liverpool game... Remember that positive thing that just happened but are now a negative thing?
I think he picks his fights good actually and he seems balanced and unfazed while doing it. But he has to do it.
Even you are criticising him for reacting to criticism, are you too not better off just ignoring it?
He's allowed to defend himself. What de Boer said is out of order.
If the media focus on Jose and his 'antics', they are not highlighting the flaws in the on-field team play.
The less player slurs in the media, the happier the players mindset during the game, thus less pressure, in my humble opinion anyway.
Look being cocky and brushing stuff off, is actually a way of responding too, your basically saying 'thats beneath me and doesn't matter'. Used to work for Fergie but he also had to let people know whats what once in a while too. So maybe thats what Mourinho learned in Madrid, that when brushing off stuff that "didn't matter" actually mattered, in the end he would lose that control and respect instead of gaining it, ultimately making his job harder. Maybe that is why he is being more insecure now than before, he is protecting what he is building. Maybe de Boer is irrelevant, but if he can read it then Rashford can. Media control peoples opinions all the time, and fighting that opinion is exactly the purpose of what Mourinho is doing. Maybe its not always needed but who is to know really, when and what can have a huge negative impact?
Im not sure what your point is? He is not focused on his job and just has a lot of itching in his body that he projects onto others? I can't see it. As others have said, Mourinho has done an effort to please the fans with regards to playing youth, and to the club and even F.A with his general behaviour which is not exactly as you portray. You can't see the purpose of him protecting the way he's being viewed as a manager, and you actually criticise him for doing it, but what exactly is the purpose of that?
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I think he just has a very low opinion of average players and managers who take up punditry, talking shit about the men who are doing the actual jobs these people are supposed to be "experts" at.
Redknapp, Gullit, Scholes and now De Boer...these are people who are going up on TV talking about a big one about what managers should be doing when they're sitting in their chairs in a studio earning easy money.
Redknapp, Gullit, Scholes and now De Boer...these are people who are going up on TV talking about a big one about what managers should be doing when they're sitting in their chairs in a studio earning easy money.
About Mourinho distributing roundhouse kicks, getting into fights and executing a Fatality on De Boer (and on others): I really think he feeds on it. It gives him strenght, confidence, I don't know (just an wannabe psychologist here).
Anyway, I like it. It's petty - sometimes too much - but, man, after two seasons of enduring brainless criticism about everything ("too defensive"; "little defensive, lucky to have De Gea"; "too much Pogba"; "where's Pogba"; "where's the goals"; "there's a lot of goals, but they are pragmatic"; "killing youth players"; "playing youth and criticizing them" etc) Mourinho gets the right to act like as the guy from Rocky IV said:
Anyway, I like it. It's petty - sometimes too much - but, man, after two seasons of enduring brainless criticism about everything ("too defensive"; "little defensive, lucky to have De Gea"; "too much Pogba"; "where's Pogba"; "where's the goals"; "there's a lot of goals, but they are pragmatic"; "killing youth players"; "playing youth and criticizing them" etc) Mourinho gets the right to act like as the guy from Rocky IV said:
And that he continue so for as long as he deems it necessary.
De Boer had it coming for him. If you put yourself out there for the world to hear your opinions, you better be able to back it up.
He challenged Jose's management of Rashford and was giving advice on how he would have allowed Rashford to play week in week out, even with dips in form.
That is the very definition of 'asking for it'
He challenged Jose's management of Rashford and was giving advice on how he would have allowed Rashford to play week in week out, even with dips in form.
That is the very definition of 'asking for it'
There’s a clear difference between saying “it’s a pity that Mourinho is Rashford’s manager” and
“Pogba’s best position is on the left side of a midfield 3, Mourinho should adjust the side to get the best out of him”
The first one is a critique of him as a person- suggesting that he isn’t the right man, or isn’t good enough to manage Rashford, it’s insulting. The second is a critique of his tactics, which is what all pundits are to do.
They’re both opinions but one is a direct insult.
If you can’t see the difference between them then I’m not surprised you have a problem with him doing this.
Indeed, but also how about by pointing out WHY they’re wrong, rather than making childish personal remarks about their crap managerial record or how they’re envious ‘cos they didn’t earn as much as the player they are criticising.
Which of course he goes on to do. Problem is, people (particularly the controversy-loving press) will focus on the insult bit and ignore the rational rejoinder. Which will just encourage further controversy. Maybe the club likes it this way, any publicity being good.
I think it’s also worth noting that all this stuff tends to happen at press conferences. It’s not like the club are releasing official statements or he’s running to the media dictating vituperative articles.
These events must be a nightmare game after game and what else is there to do other than answer really boring and pointless questions.
I doubt Jose is at training thinking I really should be working on tactics for the Seville game but I can’t get Frank De Boer out of my head.
It’s thirty seconds out of his life he’s taken to set the record straight.
These events must be a nightmare game after game and what else is there to do other than answer really boring and pointless questions.
I doubt Jose is at training thinking I really should be working on tactics for the Seville game but I can’t get Frank De Boer out of my head.
It’s thirty seconds out of his life he’s taken to set the record straight.
This
I haven't seen the media turning our win against Liverpool into a negative. I know people on here are very precious but this simply hasn't happened, aside from Souness having a meltdown immediately after the game, which just made the win that bit better.
I'm not sure picking fights with everyone is picking your fights well. Earlier in the season he was picking fights with our own fans, for getting frustrated during a game. He's picked a fight with Conte for no reason at all. He's picked a fight with Scholes over nothing. Now De Boer. Give it a few days and it'll be someone else. He doesn't actually need to pick any fights.
Part of the reason there seems to be a negative spin on everything with Jose, is precisely because he's constantly picking fights. We just beat our main rivals who were a place behind us in the league, and Jose is picking a fight with a pundit over a criticism of him. So the focus goes on to that. It didn't have to.
I'm not saying he isn't allowed to defend himself, but he doesn't always need to.
I get the logic, but try telling that to Paul Pogba, or Luke Shaw, Martial etc...I don't disagree with Jose's management of any of these players, but you can't really have it both ways, saying that Jose picks childish fights with people to avoid bringing focus on to criticism of his players, when at the same time he himself has a habit of using press conferences to bring focus on to criticism of his players.
Did it work for him in Madrid? Or at Chelsea the second time around?
I'm not sure what your point is in the second paragraph, as I'm not questioning his use of young players, or behaviour on the touchline.
I don't see the purpose of it because it simply doesn't work, and it's a fairly basic logic as to why it doesn't work, because a) you can't as a public figure, bully the public or press into thinking what you want them to think about you. It will never work, and b) responding to criticism with childish personal insults isn't really the right thing to do in ANY situation. As we all, as grown adults, actually know full well...yet here a large number of you are on the internet trying to defend it as the right thing to do.
I was simply pointing out that there isn't really much point to it. It's turned into a multi page debate because so many people don't seem to accept this. Because Jose has a right to dish out petty insults, somehow it must also be the right thing to do. Sorry but I don't buy that, and if he wasn't our manager neither I suspect would most people in this thread....on this forum...which has a policy of banning people who dish out childish insults in response to opinions they don't like.
Yes but you are also missing the point, because Mourinho felt the need with the Pogba criticism, to come out and basically insult the whole press by claiming that they don't know what a formation is, and therefore can't actually tell that Pogba already is playing in a midfield three (and I'm with Jose on the whole Pogba thing, but this basically amounted to a lie on his part). So it seems that Jose doesn't really see a difference between the two things, so I'm not sure why your argument is that I should see a difference between the two things.
What personal attack did Conte launch on Mourinho to justify the hair and match fixing jibes? What personal attack did Paul Scholes launch on Mourinho?
Why do you, as a grown intelligent adult, thing the correct way for Mourinho to behave is to throw childish insults around everywhere? If it's a master plan to stop people criticising him, it clearly doesn't work very well.
Well exactly. He could very easily have pointed out that he's actually played Rashford quite a lot, and that he has in fact generally used him pretty well, without the need for a personal attack on anyone.
I don't really think he even needs to do that. When something is clearly nonsense you can generally just dismiss it as such. People keep referring back to Ferguson, but with him it would literally have been "nah that's a load of nonsense", and that would have been the end of it.