Jurriën Timber | Arsenal player

[sullydnl]

Even though I rate him, prem football is a different game. The likes of Chris Wold etc will eat this kind of players alive, they dont care about high line, they bully on set pieces. He already is very suspect in the air that trait is very important in the premier league, wether we like it or not

We're currently the tallest and most aerially dominant (in terms of % of aerial duels won) side in the league. Last season we were the second most aerially dominant and presumably not much shorter. Yet we conceded the second most set-piece goals in the league. Meanwhile Arsenal, the second least aerially dominant side in the league, conceded the fewest set-piece goals.

Meanwhile if we compare the side who won the biggest percentage of aerial duels with the side that won the least last season, the side that won the most conceded one more set-piece goal and just as many goals from corners.

That's how much aerial dominance matters in isolation when it comes to conceding from set-pieces. Defending set-pieces is far more about organisation and not conceding those opportunities in the first place. That's how you stop Chris Wood from bullying you, not by out-Burnleying Burnley at corner kicks.

Beyond that, set-piece goals are only a fraction of the total goals conceded by most teams. The team who conceded the most total goals last season conceded 17.1% from set-pieces, the team who conceded the fewest total goals conceded 18.75% from set-pieces. So it makes sense to put far more weight on what a defender will contribute to you in open play than on set-pieces, because it's multiple times as important.

Which isn't to say it isn't something to consider. People just tend to overplay its overall importance.

 

[CallyRed]

It's going down, I'm yelling timber
You better move, you better dance
Let's make a night, you won't remember
I'll be the one, you won't forget

 

[Adnan]

We're currently the tallest and most aerially dominant (in terms of % of aerial duels won) side in the league. Last season we were the second most aerially dominant and presumably not much shorter. Yet we conceded the second most set-piece goals in the league. Meanwhile Arsenal, the second least aerially dominant side in the league, conceded the fewest set-piece goals.

Meanwhile if we compare the side who won the biggest percentage of aerial duels with the side that won the least last season, the side that won the most conceded one more set-piece goal and just as many goals from corners.

That's how much aerial dominance matters in isolation when it comes to conceding from set-pieces. Defending set-pieces is far more about organisation and not conceding those opportunities in the first place. That's how you stop Chris Wood from bullying you, not by out-Burnleying Burnley at corner kicks.

Beyond that, set-piece goals are only a fraction of the total goals conceded by most teams. The team who conceded the most total goals last season conceded 17.1% from set-pieces, the team who conceded the fewest total goals conceded 18.75% from set-pieces. So it makes sense to put far more weight on what a defender will contribute to you in open play than on set-pieces, because it's multiple times as important.

Which isn't to say it isn't something to consider. People just tend to overplay its overall importance.

Good post.

Timber is versatile player and it's not only at CB where he could potentially be utilised. We could actually do with his ability at fullback where he could provide the inverted fullback option, as well as the overlap for a inverted wide forward. He plays with a intensity that we're lacking in several positions, and that is something we need to address.

 

[golden_blunder]

Another wood pun?

Yes sir his name is puntastic!

maybe I’ll leaf it there

 

[Red Star One]

We're currently the tallest and most aerially dominant (in terms of % of aerial duels won) side in the league. Last season we were the second most aerially dominant and presumably not much shorter. Yet we conceded the second most set-piece goals in the league. Meanwhile Arsenal, the second least aerially dominant side in the league, conceded the fewest set-piece goals.

Meanwhile if we compare the side who won the biggest percentage of aerial duels with the side that won the least last season, the side that won the most conceded one more set-piece goal and just as many goals from corners.

That's how much aerial dominance matters in isolation when it comes to conceding from set-pieces. Defending set-pieces is far more about organisation and not conceding those opportunities in the first place. That's how you stop Chris Wood from bullying you, not by out-Burnleying Burnley at corner kicks.

Beyond that, set-piece goals are only a fraction of the total goals conceded by most teams. The team who conceded the most total goals last season conceded 17.1% from set-pieces, the team who conceded the fewest total goals conceded 18.75% from set-pieces. So it makes sense to put far more weight on what a defender will contribute to you in open play than on set-pieces, because it's multiple times as important.

Which isn't to say it isn't something to consider. People just tend to overplay its overall importance.

Great post. I’m not an expert on Dutch football but my friends that follow it hyped Timber for a while now. He also developed into world’s best right back in my Football Manager save, overtaking TAA around 2026

 

[Giggsforever]

There is not a single player in that Ajax team good enough for us, hope Ajax negotiate a ban on us buying their players for a couple of years.

 

[Mailo]

The Jürrien is still out on this guy...

 

[Adam-Utd]

There is not a single player in that Ajax team good enough for us, hope Ajax negotiate a ban on us buying their players for a couple of years.

what sort of ego is that? ridiculous

 

[MUFC OK]

what sort of ego is that? ridiculous

They'd probably beat us

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

4 pages already. Looks promising. I expect ETH to fix the back four and keeper first if he thinks the current ones are not good enough to be fair because if you watch the way how he plays, it’s very important to have defenders and keeper who are very comfortable on the ball to make his system works, he views his defenders on that aspect more than on the defensive or aerial duel aspect. This signing doesn’t surprise me at all if it‘s actually legit. If it happens then ETH might think this guy is the real deal and required for his defense, whether used as his inverted full back or as centre back.

 

[Thoms]

There is not a single player in that Ajax team good enough for us, hope Ajax negotiate a ban on us buying their players for a couple of years.

hahahaha delusional

 

[CallyRed]

There is not a single player in that Ajax team good enough for us, hope Ajax negotiate a ban on us buying their players for a couple of years.

Incredible take

 

[AFC NimbleThumb]

There is not a single player in that Ajax team good enough for us, hope Ajax negotiate a ban on us buying their players for a couple of years.

As a fanbase we’re getting exactly what we deserve. Moronic.

 

[bond19821982]

There is not a single player in that Ajax team good enough for us, hope Ajax negotiate a ban on us buying their players for a couple of years.

Bayern is getting Gravenberch and Mazraoui. Antony is the fall back plan for Salah at Liverpool.

I understand not everyone watches Ajax but why the feck do you act as if you know everything? You know feck all !

Deary me, our fan base is something else.

 

[cyberman]

Bayern is getting Gravenberch and Mazraoui. Antony is the fall back plan for Salah at Liverpool.

I understand not everyone watches Ajax but why the feck do you act as if you know everything? You know feck all !

Deary me, our fan base is something else.

It’s not that outrageous though. If their 3 best are going elsewhere then who is there that can get us competing with City or Liverpool? Not being good enough doesn’t mean who is better than we have now, might as well raid West Ham etc and be comfortable where we are.

 

[bond19821982]

It’s not that outrageous though. If their 3 best are going elsewhere then who is there that can get us competing with City or Liverpool? Not being good enough doesn’t mean who is better than we have now, might as well raid West Ham etc and be comfortable where we are.

Come on, it's outrageous. His claim was

There is not a single player in that Ajax team good enough for us

I just mentioned 3.

 

[André Dominguez]

We are really desperate to get some wood. I'll get my coat...

 

[Berbaclass]

There is not a single player in that Ajax team good enough for us, hope Ajax negotiate a ban on us buying their players for a couple of years.

In terms of commitment, work rate and effort. Most of them would get in.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

I really don't see the need for this guy with Lindelof around. He already has all his best traits (passing) and all his worst ones (physicality/aerial prowess).

While this guy might be a better passerer losing a better headerer in the rough and tumble of the Premier League isn't a worthwhile trade-off.

Edit - Thinking about a back 2. Might work in a back 3.

The problem of Lindelof is that he lacks aggression and not brave enough to put his body on the line, this is why he tends to lose in duel whether it's ground or aerially. Not saying I had paid attention on Timber but based on the website below, his defensive work was labeled as forthright and aggressive. He's probably not tall enough to win header vs Chris Wood but on the ground is the question whether he's aggressive enough on challenge and win ground duel.

https://www.scoutedftbl.com/best-young-football-players/jurrien-timber/

 

[bosnian_red]

There is not a single player in that Ajax team good enough for us, hope Ajax negotiate a ban on us buying their players for a couple of years.

Onana at GK, Blind at LB, Mazraoui at RB, Antony at RW would all walk in. Gravenberch a high potential player in midfield but young. Haller would probably start for us every week too as he is a striker who can actually hold up the ball. Unsure of what level Alvarez is to be the DM here, but it's not like McTominay is a high level to compete with...

 

[TwoSheds]

Onana at GK, Blind at LB, Mazraoui at RB, Antony at RW would all walk in. Gravenberch a high potential player in midfield but young. Haller would probably start for us every week too as he is a striker who can actually hold up the ball. Unsure of what level Alvarez is to be the DM here, but it's not like McTominay is a high level to compete with...

Blind and Haller? Not sure about those shouts buddy!

 

[bosnian_red]

Blind and Haller? Not sure about those shouts buddy!

Why not? Blind was an excellent footballer while he was here, Mourinho got rid because he wanted a different type of player (and Blind himself was going through health issues). Blind returned to being an excellent footballer and has been key for Ten Hag. His playmaking from left back or left center back is as good as anyone in Europe. Certainly miles better than Telles and would get in ahead of Shaw (though not Shaw of last season) without a doubt.

Haller flopped in West Ham true. But it was also a case of a player just not suiting a manager, not getting the best out of him and only being there a short time. Above all... Who is his competition at United? 37 year old Ronaldo that can't hold up the ball and has 1 good game every 5 games and just never suited being a #9? Ten Hag has Haller on fire since he's been there and Haller continued the excellent form in the CL. If he didn't have the 1 bad season at West Ham, you'd have loads of clubs after him. Maybe it was just a bad fit for 1 year?

 

[TwoSheds]

Why not? Blind was an excellent footballer while he was here, Mourinho got rid because he wanted a different type of player (and Blind himself was going through health issues). Blind returned to being an excellent footballer and has been key for Ten Hag. His playmaking from left back or left center back is as good as anyone in Europe. Certainly miles better than Telles and would get in ahead of Shaw (though not Shaw of last season) without a doubt.

Haller flopped in West Ham true. But it was also a case of a player just not suiting a manager, not getting the best out of him and only being there a short time. Above all... Who is his competition at United? 37 year old Ronaldo that can't hold up the ball and has 1 good game every 5 games and just never suited being a #9? Ten Hag has Haller on fire since he's been there and Haller continued the excellent form in the CL. If he didn't have the 1 bad season at West Ham, you'd have loads of clubs after him. Maybe it was just a bad fit for 1 year?

Haller is one of the worst passers I've ever seen in my life - Momo Sissoko bad. I always thought he was a decent striker being badly misused by Moyes to be fair to him but his best qualities are his finishing, aerial ability and decent pace. All of which Ronaldo also has.

And Blind wasn't physical enough to play LB when he was here really, never mind now. Don't see it at all.

 

[Terranova]

Why not? Blind was an excellent footballer while he was here, Mourinho got rid because he wanted a different type of player (and Blind himself was going through health issues). Blind returned to being an excellent footballer and has been key for Ten Hag. His playmaking from left back or left center back is as good as anyone in Europe. Certainly miles better than Telles and would get in ahead of Shaw (though not Shaw of last season) without a doubt.

Haller flopped in West Ham true. But it was also a case of a player just not suiting a manager, not getting the best out of him and only being there a short time. Above all... Who is his competition at United? 37 year old Ronaldo that can't hold up the ball and has 1 good game every 5 games and just never suited being a #9? Ten Hag has Haller on fire since he's been there and Haller continued the excellent form in the CL. If he didn't have the 1 bad season at West Ham, you'd have loads of clubs after him. Maybe it was just a bad fit for 1 year?

Both Blind and Haller aren't good enough to play for Ajax, why would they be good enough here.

 

[bosnian_red]

Both Blind and Haller aren't good enough to play for Ajax, why would they be good enough here.

So the #2 and #3 players with the most minutes at Ajax aren't good enough to play there? Guy who scored 42 goals and 14 assists in 50 games in the League and CL since joining? Right...
Sounds like the "we need to sell Bruno" crowd to be honest.

 

[ShinjiNinja26]

There is not a single player in that Ajax team good enough for us, hope Ajax negotiate a ban on us buying their players for a couple of years.

Well that’s a load of bollocks isn’t it? Clearly you’ve been living under a rock this season.

 

[Terranova]

So the #2 and #3 players with the most minutes at Ajax aren't good enough to play there? Guy who scored 42 goals and 14 assists in 50 games in the League and CL since joining? Right...
Sounds like the "we need to sell Bruno" crowd to be honest.

You're not an Ajax fan, so i can see why you think that. But Blind is under extreme scrutiny lately because he's pretty much done physically and it's showing. But for some reason Ten Hag is keeping Tagliafico on the bench.
Haller on the other hand just isn't good enough to play for Ajax, because at Ajax a striker is supposed to do a lot more than score goals, something Haller can't do.
Any striker at Ajax gets a few 100% chances a game, not that hard so score a lot.

 

[bosnian_red]

You're not an Ajax fan, so i can see why you think that. But Blind is under extreme scrutiny lately because he's pretty much done physically and it's showing. But for some reason Ten Hag is keeping Tagliafico on the bench.
Haller on the other hand just isn't good enough to play for Ajax, because at Ajax a striker is supposed to do a lot more than score goals, something Haller can't do.
Any striker at Ajax gets a few 100% chances a game, not that hard so score a lot.

Fair enough. Its also a difference of "what should United have" vs "what we currently have". On the weekend for example we used Bruno as a false 9 because we had nobody else, and generally if Ronaldo isn't fit and on form, we don't have anyone to be a striker. And at left back, Telles is really not a good player and Shaw has been always injured as well as just shit on the pitch, so I still think Blind would get ahead of him even if he has been declining.
But saying they aren't good enough current day for Ajax when they are both key players still is weird IMO. Maybe you feel you can improve on them in the market, but you need to sign players for that. They aren't currently available for selection.

 

[dutchred]

With Ajax it's not only the players it's the way we play. Looking at the players
Mazaroui There is not a better right in Europe that I've seen
Timber Great young footballer Maybe not a centre half for the PL But could easily play Right back and is better and more aggressive than any DM we have
Martinez Great left foot, aggressive and a great leap on him. Better than any lest sided defender we have
Blind Too old for us
Alvarez Prone to errors and maybe would get a lot of red cards in England
Gravenberch Super Talent. Probably been our best player sice Xmas
Berghuis Not good enough
Antony Talent but sometimes lets emotion get the better of him. Temperament might be an issue
Haller Not Good enough
Tadic Too old

Mazaroui, Timber, Martinez, Gravenberch and Antony would all improve us.
If we get ETH we would also need a new keeper. he would want a footballing keeper

 

[AjaxCunian]

So the #2 and #3 players with the most minutes at Ajax aren't good enough to play there? Guy who scored 42 goals and 14 assists in 50 games in the League and CL since joining? Right...
Sounds like the "we need to sell Bruno" crowd to be honest.

Bollocks confirmed.

 

[AjaxCunian]

You're not an Ajax fan, so i can see why you think that. But Blind is under extreme scrutiny lately because he's pretty much done physically and it's showing. But for some reason Ten Hag is keeping Tagliafico on the bench.
Haller on the other hand just isn't good enough to play for Ajax, because at Ajax a striker is supposed to do a lot more than score goals, something Haller can't do.
Any striker at Ajax gets a few 100% chances a game, not that hard so score a lot.

This is just untrue, Ajax hasnt had a high scoring striker since Milik.

 

[Terranova]

This is just untrue, Ajax hasnt had a high scoring striker since Milik.

Because the tactics were different in those years. Ajax usually doesn't have a high scoring striker, but a large number of players around 10 goals. Because usually the striker fits into the Ajax system. Haller, like Milik doesn't fit, so the tactics were changed a bit to make it work. That doesn't mean that Haller is good enough for Ajax, because he certainly isn't. Brobbey is a better fit, but he's never had a run to actually prove he's better than Haller(mostly due to injuries...).

But the topic is about Timber. He's absolutely good enough to play for United, but i don't think he's going anytime soon. He already said he wants to stay at Ajax for another year and his fee will be very high.

Edit: And Tadic had 28 league goals as a striker in 18/19(38 in total), so your statement is also untrue.

 

[simonhch]

Let’s be honest, he’s either the reincarnation of Franz Beckenbaur, or 2014 World Cup Semi Final version David Luiz.

For a player of his stature, playing the way he does, there is no middle ground.

He’ll either be brilliant or terrible.

In many ways his attributes remind me of the logic of SAF playing Paul Parker at Center half to counteract Romario. His (Timber) lower Center of gravity and agility will be extremely effective against the smaller, rapid forwards which seem to dominate the modern game. You’d rather this kid, than Harry Maguire, marking Kylian Mbappe.

But the extremes of his height (in context for his position), is surely an unavoidable complication. Imagine an aerial cross coming in and he is marking a player like Ronaldo, Kane, Nunez, Vlahovic, Ibrahimovich, Lukaku, etc. He’d be mincemeat. I’d probably love him against City or Liverpool (except at corners), but hate him against most of the midtable.

Hardly a hot take, but I think a fair one.

We are going to likely redefine what makes a good centre back as the game continues to evolve. Physical contact is progressively becoming less and less tolerated from an officiating stand point, and high lines, pressing, and pace are increasingly vital. Target men type forwards are increasingly the rarity, than the rule, but I’m not sure we are yet at the tipping point when a five foot nine centre half can thrive in the Premier League.

Happy to be proved wrong. He looks a talent.

@Terranova tagged you because you’re an Ajax fan.
@Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber tagged you because I had the same thought regarding his potential in a partnership. Varane is superb in the air, and the two would both have superb pace.

 

[sullydnl]

Someone like Cesar Azpilicueta is about the same height as him. It's not like it's Angel Gomes playing at CB.

 

[AjaxCunian]

Because the tactics were different in those years. Ajax usually doesn't have a high scoring striker, but a large number of players around 10 goals. Because usually the striker fits into the Ajax system. Haller, like Milik doesn't fit, so the tactics were changed a bit to make it work. That doesn't mean that Haller is good enough for Ajax, because he certainly isn't. Brobbey is a better fit, but he's never had a run to actually prove he's better than Haller(mostly due to injuries...).

But the topic is about Timber. He's absolutely good enough to play for United, but i don't think he's going anytime soon. He already said he wants to stay at Ajax for another year and his fee will be very high.

Edit: And Tadic had 28 league goals as a striker in 18/19(38 in total), so your statement is also untrue.

The striker before Milik that scored at a high rate is Suarez by the way, and no, Tadic mainly played as a striker in Europe that campaign.

Transfermarkt has Tadic on 7 goals scored as a striker in 18/19. He played mostly as a left winger, Dolberg was the main stiker for that season. What you are saying is just false.

Though I agree that Haller has significant shortcomings.

 

[Blzbud]

Let’s be honest, he’s either the reincarnation of Franz Beckenbaur, or 2014 World Cup Semi Final version David Luiz.

For a player of his stature, playing the way he does, there is no middle ground.

He’ll either be brilliant or terrible.

In many ways his attributes remind me of the logic of SAF playing Paul Parker at Center half to counteract Romario. His (Timber) lower Center of gravity and agility will be extremely effective against the smaller, rapid forwards which seem to dominate the modern game. You’d rather this kid, than Harry Maguire, marking Kylian Mbappe.

But the extremes of his height (in context for his position), is surely an unavoidable complication. Imagine an aerial cross coming in and he is marking a player like Ronaldo, Kane, Nunez, Vlahovic, Ibrahimovich, Lukaku, etc. He’d be mincemeat. I’d probably love him against City or Liverpool (except at corners), but hate him against most of the midtable.

Hardly a hot take, but I think a fair one.

We are going to likely redefine what makes a good centre back as the game continues to evolve. Physical contact is progressively becoming less and less tolerated from an officiating stand point, and high lines, pressing, and pace are increasingly vital. Target men type forwards are increasingly the rarity, than the rule, but I’m not sure we are yet at the tipping point when a five foot nine centre half can thrive in the Premier League.

Happy to be proved wrong. He looks a talent.

@Terranova tagged you because you’re an Ajax fan.
@Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber tagged you because I had the same thought regarding his potential in a partnership. Varane is superb in the air, and the two would both have superb pace.

Did this happnen? I only recall Romario doing things to Bruce and Pallister that no one should be forced to watch, but it is a fecking long time ago now so memory may betray me.

 

[TwoSheds]

Fair enough. Its also a difference of "what should United have" vs "what we currently have". On the weekend for example we used Bruno as a false 9 because we had nobody else, and generally if Ronaldo isn't fit and on form, we don't have anyone to be a striker. And at left back, Telles is really not a good player and Shaw has been always injured as well as just shit on the pitch, so I still think Blind would get ahead of him even if he has been declining.
But saying they aren't good enough current day for Ajax when they are both key players still is weird IMO. Maybe you feel you can improve on them in the market, but you need to sign players for that. They aren't currently available for selection.

a) Nobody in their right mind is paying a big fee for Haller to be their backup striker.
b) we used Bruno at the weekend along with Pogba up top because our manager is a feckwit. Rashford or Elanga can both play striker but didn't.

 

[UNITED ACADEMY]

Onana at GK, Blind at LB, Mazraoui at RB, Antony at RW would all walk in. Gravenberch a high potential player in midfield but young. Haller would probably start for us every week too as he is a striker who can actually hold up the ball. Unsure of what level Alvarez is to be the DM here, but it's not like McTominay is a high level to compete with...

Onana yes, Blind probably but in his prime 100% yes, Antony probably yes, Graverberch is still young but great talent, Haller is no IMO. This Ajax is different to 18/19, it's just ETH makes it looks so good.

 

[Neil_Buchanan]

Phil Jones is 5’11” and had no problem playing centre back in the pl (injury issues aside). I don’t think his height is an issue, particularly under a manager who knows how to use him.

 

[V.O.]

Phil Jones is 5’11” and had no problem playing centre back in the pl (injury issues aside). I don’t think his height is an issue, particularly under a manager who knows how to use him.

To be fair, he was 6'2" when he had knees.