Film Justice League

[VP89]

Apparently the original storyboard laid out for JL had:

Spoiler: spoilers

Batman developing a strong attraction to Louis Lane, whilst Superman was still dead

Which WB had to reign in because they felt Snyder was getting carried away with his imagination. But that was vital for the meaning of the Knightmare scene + Justice League 2:

Spoiler: Justice League 2 story with HEAVY spoilers

Louis Lane is pregnant (thats already hinted in JL with the baby basket she carries in Kansas). In the timeline related to the Knightmare scene at the end, that occurs because Lex Luther pieces together the anti-life equation and decides he wants to serve Darkseid. So he gets the motherboxes together and gives him the equation. Darkseid goes on to kill Aquaman, Wonder Woman. Flash+ Cyborg escape. Louis Lane is pregnant and she tells Bruce it's not his, but Clark's baby .

Then Superman asks Bruce to watch over Louis in the batcave while he finds Darkseid. Darkseid doesn't want to kill Supes but wants him to serve. He's told Louis is the weakness to him by Lex Luther, so he goes in and kills Louis + the unborn baby. Batman blames himself for not reacting in time. Superman arrives too late and is destroyed, vulnerable and able to be corrupted. He vents on Blatman to blame but Batman gets away just in time.

Then we get to that Knightmare bit. Bad guys and good guys working together to save the world from being a wasteland. Joker is there because he managed to acquire a motherbox or something. And he mugs off Batman for not being able to make sacrifices, relying on Flash to help him change things only for him to feck it up again (I think this is the end scene in JL). They are all travelling to try and get to a "treadmill" created by Cyborg.

This treadmill enables Flash to go back for 15 seconds in time but only once a year, because the Earth needs to be in the same place to face the treadmill. They get there in time, Flash goes back and it's that point where Bruce had that scene in BvS where Flash said "Louis is the Key". This was initially said to get him to save Louis from Darkseid. He instead changes this on the second travel to "Louis lied, it's your baby".

All events then unfold the same, except when Darkseid comes to kill Louis, Bruce is able to react quicker maybe thinking about his unborn child. He goes on to sacrifice himself and Superman comes in with Louis still alive etc. Darkseid goes on to lose and the baby is called something like Jonathon Bruce Kent.

Personally, I don't want either Supes or Batman to die out of fandom. And I think in this series Batman is just like another Ironman sacrifice so I'd like to see something better happen!

Overall I like the story board for JL2 but it needs to be built over more than just 2 movies.

 

[VP89]

I haven't seen the whole movie yet but answered 2 gripes below

Spoiler

- How would Steppenwolf and co know the mother boxes are on earth, and yet NOT know the anti life equation was? They were clearly both left on the same planet, by them, so its literally impossible that they wouldn't already know both were on the same planet. I mean its already stupid that they would just forget what planet they left them on in the first place, because weren't they kind of, the entire point of everything they were up to? So they'd have just been sitting around doing nothing since being on earth, and then somehow forgot where Earth was, and then forgot that the mother boxes and anti life equation were on the same planet? Anyone this stupid is no credible threat to anyone. Its just lazy writing as well. They could have just written the story so that Darkseid wasn't aware of the anti life equation due to being taken out of the battle before it was cast or something. Stupid

^ I think it's more that the anti-life equation is incomplete. I've posted who goes on to complete the equation in my spoiler post.

- Also, when Darkseid says "ready the armada, we'll use the old ways"...but the mother boxes have been on earth the whole time, so wouldn't the only way they could have done anything since leaving them there have been the "old ways"? What are these people? Idiots? Going back to earth would literally have been the first time since the last time they were on Earth that they could have possibly not used the "old ways", so the old ways would in fact be the new ways. Again, just lazy writing and dumb dialogue
^ It's rushed for sure, I think Snyder expected to have this franchise built over many movies, but he was just given one. That said, he should have tailored the script rather than try and cram say 4 films into one.

- When Cyborg says to Batman "I heard about you, didn't think you were real" after having prior to this, hacked into batmans computer, in batman's secret lair. Again, no purpose to this dialogue other than to prove whoever wrote it was stupid.
^ I think you're seriously nit picking a bit there. It's a throwaway line that he clearly meant pre-cybog. Like, "I heard about you as a kid, didn't think you were real". Remember he hasn't been Cyborg forever, it's a new life for him. Before that he was a star football player for Gotham. He would have heard about the legend of Batman at that age.

 

[Dirty Schwein]

I'll give Snyder some credit. It was a very brave move to put this in the film

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[afrocentricity]

I'm actually thinking about a rewatch, the action and style of it is dope. A spliff and a bit of rum... I just don't care about these flaws repeatedly mentioned itt. It's good.

They can make more if they want, I'll be watching them. Guarantee most of you moany feckers will too... You can't help yourselves it seems.

 

[noodlehair]

I haven't seen the whole movie yet but answered 2 gripes below

Yep the last one is nitpicking but the stupidity of the dialogue just annoys me. Its not like there's any purpose to him saying it. They would have lost nothing by just not having Cyborg say anything at all at that point.

The first two gripes do get me a bit because they are so glaring they detract from the credibility/coherency of the story and therefore the film overall, and again they could have been easily written out without needing any extensive re-shooting. Its the sort of thing where if you wrote a story yourself, you would definitely notice and think "yeah that doesn't make sense actually I better tweak it a bit" so I don't get how it ends up being left in a multi million pound motion picture, even with all the re-shoots and cutting everything down. I mean neither scene was in the original release. They've actually put them both in and created the problem, so may as well have solved it at the same time by making the story actually make sense.

On the plus side Flash, Cyborg and even Steppenwolf have much better character development in the Schnyder version. Obviously easier when its about half a month long but I think people would actually tolerate longer films if it was necessary to tell the story properly. The premonition scenes I thought were actually quite cool, apart from the awful joker acting.

Hard to say how happy I would have been if this was the original relase as so much has been cut in and out that I don't know what parts I just followed easier or pre made up my mind on because I'd effectively already sort of seen the film but not really. Its not oike the Batman vs Superman extended cut where they just tried to make a bad film better by making you watch it for even longer, this is actually almost a completely different film.

 

[Sylar]

I'm actually thinking about a rewatch, the action and style of it is dope. A spliff and a bit of rum... I just don't care about these flaws repeatedly mentioned itt. It's good.

They can make more if they want, I'll be watching them. Guarantee most of you moany feckers will too... You can't help yourselves it seems.

ON the whole, most people enjoyed it. I think the criticism is taken too much at heart by some on here, especially as its a forum to discuss things. Most have been balanced pointing out the good as well as the bad, so its not like people have come on, said ugh Snyder, this is shit, that is shit, everything is shit.

Id happily take 4 hours for superhero stuff especially for home watching. But studios wont give that as theres no money to be made.

Apparently the original storyboard laid out for JL had:

Spoiler: spoilers

Batman developing a strong attraction to Louis Lane, whilst Superman was still dead

Which WB had to reign in because they felt Snyder was getting carried away with his imagination. But that was vital for the meaning of the Knightmare scene + Justice League 2:

Spoiler: Justice League 2 story with HEAVY spoilers

Louis Lane is pregnant (thats already hinted in JL with the baby basket she carries in Kansas). In the timeline related to the Knightmare scene at the end, that occurs because Lex Luther pieces together the anti-life equation and decides he wants to serve Darkseid. So he gets the motherboxes together and gives him the equation. Darkseid goes on to kill Aquaman, Wonder Woman. Flash+ Cyborg escape. Louis Lane is pregnant and she tells Bruce it's not his, but Clark's baby .

Then Superman asks Bruce to watch over Louis in the batcave while he finds Darkseid. Darkseid doesn't want to kill Supes but wants him to serve. He's told Louis is the weakness to him by Lex Luther, so he goes in and kills Louis + the unborn baby. Batman blames himself for not reacting in time. Superman arrives too late and is destroyed, vulnerable and able to be corrupted. He vents on Blatman to blame but Batman gets away just in time.

Then we get to that Knightmare bit. Bad guys and good guys working together to save the world from being a wasteland. Joker is there because he managed to acquire a motherbox or something. And he mugs off Batman for not being able to make sacrifices, relying on Flash to help him change things only for him to feck it up again (I think this is the end scene in JL). They are all travelling to try and get to a "treadmill" created by Cyborg.

This treadmill enables Flash to go back for 15 seconds in time but only once a year, because the Earth needs to be in the same place to face the treadmill. They get there in time, Flash goes back and it's that point where Bruce had that scene in BvS where Flash said "Louis is the Key". This was initially said to get him to save Louis from Darkseid. He instead changes this on the second travel to "Louis lied, it's your baby".

All events then unfold the same, except when Darkseid comes to kill Louis, Bruce is able to react quicker maybe thinking about his unborn child. He goes on to sacrifice himself and Superman comes in with Louis still alive etc. Darkseid goes on to lose and the baby is called something like Jonathon Bruce Kent.

Personally, I don't want either Supes or Batman to die out of fandom. And I think in this series Batman is just like another Ironman sacrifice so I'd like to see something better happen!

Overall I like the story board for JL2 but it needs to be built over more than just 2 movies.

interesting to read that. I think the studio would have been better off keeping Snyder for action shots (though controlling him on his Snyderisms) and getting some other writers to build out the full story.

I dunno man, let's call it different instead, structure that people talked in the thread already about, the usual cliched "all is lost" moment before the big finale isn't there for example, the structure more similar to a mini series which I like more. And yeah, the style, direction etc.

And lack of jokes which I LOVED in Batman v Superman (except the Eisenberg awful Luthor take), god, how I hate when people give negative points to a DC movie because of lack of jokes. This movie had some really awkward jokes just because Zack was probably told to put them in because Avengers has jokes, let's do them jokey jokes just because.

I think that was Snyders' doing it. The jokes we got in JW version were due to the studio, but if you thought the jokes in this movie was awkward, thats on Snyder.

Also with regards to DC, not every character needs to be dark and brooding.
Snyder I think just doesnt get Superman, so he made him a God version of Batman (and probably why he tried to limit his use).
It works for vigilantes like Batman, but for superheroes like Flash and Superman, whilst they dont need to be making quips and jokes all the time, they shouldnt be angry face all the time either.

 

[Ramos]

Thought it was great. Watched it two times now. Watched the theatrical cut last week to get a good idea of what had changed. That movie is truly an abomination. You could easily tell what parts were missing (like the taking of the third box) and of course the reshoots. It's nearly unwatchable. Can't believe they released it like that.

It's much, much better now. We went from Flash pushing cars, not liking bugs and asking what brunch is, to him being absolutely crucial to the survival of the planet. From Steppenwolf being a baddie straight out of a morning cartoon show to him being a tragic figure just trying to regain his master's trust. He looks way better too. Fight scenes are longer and more spectacular. The climactic battle is miles better and even makes that line Mera says to Aquaman in his movie make more sense. All characters feel fleshed out. Every choice Snyder makes is better (bar maybe one, the Flash intro).

Yeah, the story isn't that special (a bit silly even) and it's way too long. But i think that's on purpose. Probably wanted to give fans as much content as possible. Had they released this in theaters, it would obviously have been cut somewhat. There's some very obvious parts that could go. Maybe not 60 mins worth, but still. You could turn this in a 3 hour movie without sacrificing too much.

 

[VP89]

ON the whole, most people enjoyed it. I think the criticism is taken too much at heart by some on here, especially as its a forum to discuss things. Most have been balanced pointing out the good as well as the bad, so its not like people have come on, said ugh Snyder, this is shit, that is shit, everything is shit.

Id happily take 4 hours for superhero stuff especially for home watching. But studios wont give that as theres no money to be made.


interesting to read that. I think the studio would have been better off keeping Snyder for action shots (though controlling him on his Snyderisms) and getting some other writers to build out the full story.



I think that was Snyders' doing it. The jokes we got in JW version were due to the studio, but if you thought the jokes in this movie was awkward, thats on Snyder.

Also with regards to DC, not every character needs to be dark and brooding.
Snyder I think just doesnt get Superman, so he made him a God version of Batman (and probably why he tried to limit his use).
It works for vigilantes like Batman, but for superheroes like Flash and Superman, whilst they dont need to be making quips and jokes all the time, they shouldnt be angry face all the time either.

They did that (got 2 guys to watch over Snyder). But it did more harm than good because they were too limiting apparently. Also one of them was a dick who didn't take the Josh Wheadon(?) complaints seriously, and he ended up getting removed.

I agree with your point that not everyone needs to be dark. In fairness only Batman and Cyborg I guess really need to be dark. Superman is an omnipresent character that can turn good or bad so I guess he can fluctuate. But Snyder does this shit its annoying -e.g. Gotham is dark, Metropolis is vibrant. But it's like BvS was watching all the different grains of grey on a screen

 

[reelworld]

My kid wanted to watched Man of Steel so I gave that a rewatch last night. And I just remember that the Martian Manhunter is already in that movie too (Swanick the black general dude)

So a being as powerful as Superman just sat twiddling his thumb at 2 apocalyptic event, not trying to help?

 

[The Cat]

Just finished it - and I'd not seen any DC films.

Enjoyed it I thought the pacing was decent for a 4 hour movie.

 

[UnrelatedPsuedo]

Has anyone done the joke about Justice is Grey and something something about not being able to notice the difference between the colour version? Someone should.

 

[Garethw]

I'm actually thinking about a rewatch, the action and style of it is dope. A spliff and a bit of rum... I just don't care about these flaws repeatedly mentioned itt. It's good.

They can make more if they want, I'll be watching them. Guarantee most of you moany feckers will too... You can't help yourselves it seems.

I thoroughly enjoyed it as well pal!

 

[Sylar]

My kid wanted to watched Man of Steel so I gave that a rewatch last night. And I just remember that the Martian Manhunter is already in that movie too (Swanick the black general dude)

So a being as powerful as Superman just sat twiddling his thumb at 2 apocalyptic event, not trying to help?

He was in Batman v Superman too. He's a lazy feck

 

[Andy_Cole]

He was in Batman v Superman too. He's a lazy feck

Maybe if they were to do a back story they’d show him doing a lot in those two movies behind the scenes? What’s his power anyway? Other than shape shifting?

 

[reelworld]

Maybe if they were to do a back story they’d show him doing a lot in those two movies behind the scenes? What’s his power anyway? Other than shape shifting?

Basically same as Superman but added with shapeshifting and intangibility

 

[FrankDrebin]

Seems like he could've been usefull for the super hero's.
Probably more useful than rich-man-dressed-up-in-fancy-Bat-outfit.

 

[Sylar]

@Andy_Cole
That would be cool, but they clearly didn't think it through

Unless they go with the real general died after bvs and then the MM took over him in human form around JL (but they would need a reason he didn't help)

.

Maybe if they were to do a back story they’d show him doing a lot in those two movies behind the scenes? What’s his power anyway? Other than shape shifting?

Pretty much this

Basically same as Superman but added with shapeshifting and intangibility

I mean they can obviously down play it like they did in Supergirl tv show

 

[SalfordRed18]

I dunno man, let's call it different instead, structure that people talked in the thread already about, the usual cliched "all is lost" moment before the big finale isn't there for example, the structure more similar to a mini series which I like more. And yeah, the style, direction etc.

And lack of jokes which I LOVED in Batman v Superman (except the Eisenberg awful Luthor take), god, how I hate when people give negative points to a DC movie because of lack of jokes. This movie had some really awkward jokes just because Zack was probably told to put them in because Avengers has jokes, let's do them jokey jokes just because.

None of the film was fresh. Different tone, but follows the same structure of every superhero film.

And there most definitely was an all is lost moment, when flash had to go back in time.

 

[The Corinthian]

I got round to watching this last night. I haven't watched the original Justice League, so don't have anything to compare it to (but have watched MoS, and BvS).

Overall, it's good. A solid 6-7/10 I'd say. It's a clear step below your standard Marvel flick, but what Marvel has gotten right is the time needed to properly world build. Here, it's a little jumpy and and not as much time and effort is taken to effectively build up the world and the nuance within.

4 hours is way too long though.

I really enjoyed the Cyborg and Flash scenes. Would love them to have a spin off of their own as not only are their powers the most interesting (and potentially the most powerful), but there's so much you can do with it. It's not a standard beat-em-up as it is with the other four.

Also, the Knightmare sequence was great as well. That was probably my favourite scene from BvS, so it was good it was developed. This is obviously a real interesting concept, why don't they get the ball rolling and make a full on Knightmare movie? As long as you have Flash, you can always go back and 'reset' the timeline anyway.

The Lois scenes were the real drag. And didn't understand why Martian Manhunter wanted her to start working again.

The scene were Darkseid came to Earth the first time was really interesting. Great seeing an older Green Lantern there, and Zeus (and Ares?). Is there any reason they aren't around in the current world?

Also, what was with the weird singing at the start when Batman approached Aquaman in that Russian village? Was so bizarre and out of place.

The background music when WW was on screen was so irritating (it was some weird woman warbling).

How does Lex Luthor know Batman's real identity?

Is there news for a next Justice League movie or is this it?

Anywho, overall was pretty decent. 4 hours way too long for a movie though.

 

[VP89]

Knightmare sequence was great as well. That was probably my favourite scene from BvS, so it was good it was developed. This is obviously a real interesting concept, why don't they get the ball rolling and make a full on Knightmare movie? As long as you have Flash, you can always go back and 'reset' the timeline anyway.

If you want the spoilers for what was planned for JL2, I posted what I think at least, earlier in this thread. But yeah it's up in the air now because of many factors I guess. Affleck and Henry Cavil have declined for now, if I'm not mistaken. WB and Snyder have to compromise at some place for it too.

The scene were Darkseid came to Earth the first time was really interesting. Great seeing an older Green Lantern there, and Zeus (and Ares?). Is there any reason they aren't around in the current world?

God knows I'm sure it can be explained somewhere.

The background music when WW was on screen was so irritating (it was some weird woman warbling).

Glad it's not just me thinking that!

How does Lex Luthor know Batman's real identity?

He's a clever man. So is the Riddler.
If I'm not mistaken, there is a hint Riddler had told Lex who Batman is - but yeah, one or both of them should be clever enough to find out!

Is there news for a next Justice League movie or is this it?

As of now no JL2. I think.

 

[The holy trinity 68]

Zeus (and Ares?). Is there any reason they aren't around in the current world.

In the past, Ares waged war against the gods of Olympus and killed them all, Zeus managed to cast Ares out but was fatally wounded and died of his wounds.

Wonder Woman killed Ares in the Wonder Woman movie which was set in 1918.

 

[The Corinthian]

Apparently the original storyboard laid out for JL had:

Spoiler: spoilers

Batman developing a strong attraction to Louis Lane, whilst Superman was still dead

Which WB had to reign in because they felt Snyder was getting carried away with his imagination. But that was vital for the meaning of the Knightmare scene + Justice League 2:

Spoiler: Justice League 2 story with HEAVY spoilers

Louis Lane is pregnant (thats already hinted in JL with the baby basket she carries in Kansas). In the timeline related to the Knightmare scene at the end, that occurs because Lex Luther pieces together the anti-life equation and decides he wants to serve Darkseid. So he gets the motherboxes together and gives him the equation. Darkseid goes on to kill Aquaman, Wonder Woman. Flash+ Cyborg escape. Louis Lane is pregnant and she tells Bruce it's not his, but Clark's baby .

Then Superman asks Bruce to watch over Louis in the batcave while he finds Darkseid. Darkseid doesn't want to kill Supes but wants him to serve. He's told Louis is the weakness to him by Lex Luther, so he goes in and kills Louis + the unborn baby. Batman blames himself for not reacting in time. Superman arrives too late and is destroyed, vulnerable and able to be corrupted. He vents on Blatman to blame but Batman gets away just in time.

Then we get to that Knightmare bit. Bad guys and good guys working together to save the world from being a wasteland. Joker is there because he managed to acquire a motherbox or something. And he mugs off Batman for not being able to make sacrifices, relying on Flash to help him change things only for him to feck it up again (I think this is the end scene in JL). They are all travelling to try and get to a "treadmill" created by Cyborg.

This treadmill enables Flash to go back for 15 seconds in time but only once a year, because the Earth needs to be in the same place to face the treadmill. They get there in time, Flash goes back and it's that point where Bruce had that scene in BvS where Flash said "Louis is the Key". This was initially said to get him to save Louis from Darkseid. He instead changes this on the second travel to "Louis lied, it's your baby".

All events then unfold the same, except when Darkseid comes to kill Louis, Bruce is able to react quicker maybe thinking about his unborn child. He goes on to sacrifice himself and Superman comes in with Louis still alive etc. Darkseid goes on to lose and the baby is called something like Jonathon Bruce Kent.

Personally, I don't want either Supes or Batman to die out of fandom. And I think in this series Batman is just like another Ironman sacrifice so I'd like to see something better happen!

Overall I like the story board for JL2 but it needs to be built over more than just 2 movies.

Wow, that would be pretty interesting! However, if they kill their main stars and want to develop the universe, they'd be a little hamstrung. Perhaps the actual Knightmare movie would be their equivalent of Infinity War/Endgame.

 

[The Corinthian]

In the past, Ares waged war against the gods of Olympus and killed them all, Zeus managed to cast Ares out but was fatally wounded and died of his wounds.

Wonder Woman killed Ares in the Wonder Woman movie which was set in 1918.

Oh right thanks. The Wonder Woman movies I haven't actually seen. I heard the first is great but the second is awful.

 

[Shane88]

In the past, Ares waged war against the gods of Olympus and killed them all, Zeus managed to cast Ares out but was fatally wounded and died of his wounds.

Wasn't that Kratos? White text.

 

[VP89]

Wow, that would be pretty interesting! However, if they kill their main stars and want to develop the universe, they'd be a little hamstrung. Perhaps the actual Knightmare movie would be their equivalent of Infinity War/Endgame.

It is - I think Zach Snyder wanted to create a couple films before doing JL but Warner Bros just hashed it up.

 

[The Corinthian]

Also, forgot to add - the opening 5 mins of this JL was fantastic. Superman's screams, death knell for the rest of the world was so brilliantly done, and showing how it permeated Amazon, Antlantis, and showing other's reactions to it. Thought it was a great opening to the movie.

 

[Sylar]

Also, forgot to add - the opening 5 mins of this JL was fantastic. Superman's screams, death knell for the rest of the world was so brilliantly done, and showing how it permeated Amazon, Antlantis, and showing other's reactions to it. Thought it was a great opening to the movie.

Agree, was nicely done to show the impact of his death and that waking the mother boxes (well box)

That is basically the beginning of the movie so odd JW cut that part

 

[reelworld]

I think the Snyder forced to put in jokes things was overblown. Man of Steel has some jokes and most of it was cringey as feck

 

[The Corinthian]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/technology-56528052

Some interesting behind the scenes narrative, around the VFX specifically.

 

[unchanged_lineup]

Scrolling through random clips on YouTube last night, I realized the "I don't believe it", "Believe it" ... scene we were all laughing at is basically a vastly inferior version of this scene:

 

[LovelyLittlePanda]

I was so disappointed with the original that I would've skipped this were it not for the praise in this thread. Thanks.

Some stupid "artistic choices", like not using colour or widescreen. Too much slow motion and characters doing ordinary stuff with folk music on.

Whedon did a terrible job. The ommission of Darkseid in the original felt off. He also didn't get this was a Cyborg origin story.

 

[el3mel]

What a great watch this was. Enjoyed every second of it. 4 hours but not a single second I felt was not needed or that it dragged any time. The pacing is absolutely fantastic for such long film. Honestly, anything less and I would have felt that the characters weren't done justice, but this is really well done. Every character got its own screen time and moments to shine.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

 

[Sylar]

Always like Honest Trailers.

 

[ThinkTank@Cafe]

Impossible shit. Marvel Final is a masterpiece compared to this. An insult to DC comics universe with legendary Dark Knight and Joker. banal plot, cartoon characters, the jokes aren’t funny at all, absolutely no charm. Don’t waste your time. Even visual part is not that impressive: too much CGI which makes it like gloomy Shrek on steroids, not like a cinematography

 

[Sylar]

Interesting, I thought visually it was great

 

[Salt Bailly]

Spoilerific pic from the set of the new Flash movie:

Spoiler

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[SmashedHombre]

Wow, that would be pretty interesting! However, if they kill their main stars and want to develop the universe, they'd be a little hamstrung. Perhaps the actual Knightmare movie would be their equivalent of Infinity War/Endgame.

If they killed their main stars it would make the universe a lot more interesting. I could get behind a comic-book universe where the good guys were actually in danger.

 

[Sylar]

If they killed their main stars it would make the universe a lot more interesting. I could get behind a comic-book universe where the good guys were actually in danger.

Whilst I agree I cannot see a movie universe that depends on movie goers doing this or being the first to take that step with established characters.