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Film Justice League
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Yeah that was good, he did a bit of that for Wonder Woman. The ragdolls were hilarious.
The absolute best thing about that scene, is that not only did it not need to be in slow motion, but the entire moment was unnecessary, because once the Flash has dramatically run across the walls covered in lightning set to an epic soundtrack and gently pushed Wonder Woman’s sword into her hand, she just.... lands on the ground.
She doesn’t turn in one fluid motion to wield it against Steppenwolf, and the sword wasn’t about to fall down a giant chasm or into lava... she literally just lands on the ground and looks at him. It saved her all of about 3 seconds of picking it up off the floor (probably less considering her own inconsistently demonstrated super speed) It’s a literally pointless moment, rendered EPIC!! by its ridiculous OTT presentation. It’s Zach Snyder to a tee. At best he saved her sword from getting a little scuffed.. but in slow motion.
Amazing
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I guess when it comes to film criticism there's really nothing that can qualify as objective criticism, What would legit criticism look like ? Also I think it's presented as fact due to the over the top nature of the internet.
But having said that and also argued on here that Snyder fight scenes are basically objectively dog shit(They are awful to watch due to the how weightless they look)I do agree with you in a way. So much of film criticism is I don't like x thing so it must be bad without trying to think about what the film was trying to say. I recently re watched Blue Velvet and some people hated it at the time because of it's sexual politics, the lack of sympathetic characters, the dreamlike nature of the film, how the film takes itself both very seriously and at times sounds like a comedy. Yet this was the whole point of the film, it was trying to express all these things, it was in some part the goal of the director to put forward these ideas. Blue Velvet was trying to achieve some form of artistic expression whether we like it or not doesn't really matter.
But I think if we applied this type of criticism or outlook onto super hero films then imo Scorsese is right. These films aren't trying to express some form of the human condition or trying to say anything about it, they aren't putting forward a challenging view to its audience. There's as much artistic expression in Marvel and DC films(Maybe not the Nolan films) as there is in pre show adverts. For the me an ''objective'' criticism of Justice League is to say it's 4 hour log flume ride that spent it's talking about in film lore in a bid to keep it's nostalgic hungry audience mildly entertain until the end credits.
Somehow I think that will annoy people far more than me complaining about fights scenes in the Snyder cut though.
True although I don't think this a bad thing tbh. Looking at a film critically rather than enjoying it for what it is, can give you a new perspective on the film or can question what you actually like about the film. Is it just a combination of visual and audio hitting you're eyes and ears while sitting in warm room stuffing your face full of popcorn that resulted in a positive experience or was there's something more, was the film saying something on a ''deeper'' level. It also produces a boarder and better level discussion, if people can critically look at film or art then they are able to see a number of different views rather than simply dismissing anything they disagree with. Thats not to say looking critically at film will produce all the answers but it increases the chance of finding some.
Also especially when it comes to giant cultural things like superhero films, criticism is needed. When cinemas open again they won't be full of Adam Sandler comedies it will the next round of marvel movies. Atm they consume all of cinema(and tv)unlike anything else before and it doesn't look stopping any time soon.
For whatever reason I think some people feel a bit insecure about seeing criticism towards things that have a attachment to.
You can't go into action with a dirty sword.
There'd be absolutely nothing wrong with watching those films and critiquing it in detail. Why would there be?
Dya know what? At first I thought meh, now actually I think yeah go on. Use the lesser known characters, less expectation and go and create something good. See Guardians.
Fair enough. I still find it weird. Like hating Chinese food and sampling all the best Chinese restaurants.
I'll give Snyder some credit. It was a very brave move to put this in the film
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Here's the thing. Half of the movies I grew up watching and liking (and probably some of you lot too) were at this level... Or the level of Transformers etc. Entertaining for loads of people but very flawed. We loved them all the same, skipped the boring bits and took the piss out of the silly bits.
Expectation has gone through the roof and people are expecting close to perfection nowadays. Or maybe it's just the internet? Probably that as nobody I interact with in real life gives much of a shit...
Expectation has gone through the roof and people are expecting close to perfection nowadays. Or maybe it's just the internet? Probably that as nobody I interact with in real life gives much of a shit...
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If people kept going on about a certain Chinese restaurant, you might find some people are willing to try it and have their opinion changed.
You might know what you're getting with a sweet and sour chicken, but not every sweet and sour chicken taste the same
With Snyder, I don't think people are wanting perfection, the film's just aren't that good.
Meh...
It's more specific than that, if you hate the food that Zack Snyder cooks you aren't going to be keen on his cooking are ya? You definitely aren't going to hang around for 4 hours to find out how you feel about it. Odds are if the starters shit then you're out.
@Sweet Square personally I don't have a problem with people disliking the film. I'm just baffled some of you put yourselves through 4 hours of it knowing you weren't going to like it. Also some of you come across like moany old codgers, it is what it is. Now knock yourselves out....
So the people who have an issue with others criticising the film have pretty much described it as like consuming Chinese food and also compared it to the transformer movies from the mid 2000's.
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It's more like enjoying Chinese food and having the misfortune of getting a bad takeaway or visiting a mediocre restaurant .
Everything has to be explained to the Nth degree too. Look at wandavision, people were mad it didn't have Mephisto in it when they never even said he would be.
Thanks. Yeah she was great in mos.
I objectively didn't like it because it wasn't pushing enough agendas.
There was a confirmed story that he choked and slammed a fan in a fit of frenzy.
Also, I sent a creative to film him do some VT lines for the launch of a channel focusing on DC heroes. He was probably stoned and acted like a massive cnut. There was a point where he was literally spitting water onto the camera as he said his lines, and was just treating the creative like he was a piece of shit. We got so many apologies from his management in a plea to delete the footage.
Apparently this has happened with most people he's worked with.
Yep
Hes a lot of style without substance at times. I said before, I dont mind the slow motion as it can be affective. But him moving like a bolt would have just saved time in terms of the movie (but as said above, it didnt even need to be in there, as it was used better in other parts with the Flash)
Or hating a certain Chinese restaurant but keep going back when they change the menu.
But literally nobody other than an idiot or sadist would do that. My scenario on the other hand is pretty commonplace. Basically the feeling of disappointment.
You order a kung po shrimp because it's one of your favourites, and when it arrives it is a massive portion. While it looks decent enough, you find that there's only three prawns in it, the rest is just bulked out with water chestnut and the sauce is thin and flavourless. Is that my fault? Am I supposed to just eat it and say nothing, or do I say to others that actually I didn't think it was very good?
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Dont you guys want more people to watch it though? Surely the whole point is to get new fans, so people who might not like his other stuff, hears the hype and watches it hoping to see something good or based on the reviews they are seeing. And then watch the whole thing (rather than 10 minutes) to see if the hype justifies it.
I just want different takes and something fresh, and mainstream movie goers rarely like different things out of their perception of what they find good. This is perfect example. I understand Marvel formula is mainstream and beloved worldwide, but I am personally bored of the same formula.
But you haven't explained how Snyder's formula is tangibly any different. His style is different, I'll give you that, but that's mainly confined to his visuals. He and the DCEU appear to me to be doing almost everything the same as Marvel, but without the patience, or the off-camera talent. There were as many shit quips in Snyder's justice league as there were in Doctor Strange, for example (and some of the jokes in that were dreadful, by the way).
As I said earlier, his formula is no different than a typical marvel film. Just poor execution.
Watching it now. Decent so far but 20 seconds into Flash's appearance and I want him dead.
Wait...Some idiot thinks this was a "fresh" take?
Now now let's be nice
It’s now on Sky in UHD HDR
No, we should never be nice to people like him.
But in any case, that was clearly no "fresh take". It has to be 4hrs long just to give any backstory, and even then it's terrible at that. What it does well is super heroes doing super hero things, albeit in a ridiculously convoluted way, but still what was "fresh" about that?
I liked it. Could lose some scenes (most already mentioned), and would be better.
Coolest, of course, was Zeus.
Coolest, of course, was Zeus.
Let him spew his usual poison, me not playing along with his fantasy agenda against me really got to him I guess. We are at the primitive insults stage now.
Fresh compared to Marvel, I also like the slow movie structure more that lots of people hated here etc. When I say fresh, it doesn't mean groundbreaking or anything. Just not usual Marvel borefest (for me). I mean, superhero movies, you can only do so much with them.
Just saying the word 'fresh' again (twice) doesn't explain what you think the difference is. Like, what makes it 'fresh'? Also, is the 'slow structure' not simply a byproduct of having a 4 hour long film?
A bigot calling someone poison? I'll take that.
Thought you blocked me...whoops, you must have forgot again. Go figure.
But in the spirit of discussion, what's "fresh" about this film exactly? I'm actually interested to know. I thought it was ok, better than the original but then it couldn't not be. I'm intrigued as to what you saw in it that was so different to the Marvel offerings though?
I dunno man, let's call it different instead, structure that people talked in the thread already about, the usual cliched "all is lost" moment before the big finale isn't there for example, the structure more similar to a mini series which I like more. And yeah, the style, direction etc.
And lack of jokes which I LOVED in Batman v Superman (except the Eisenberg awful Luthor take), god, how I hate when people give negative points to a DC movie because of lack of jokes. This movie had some really awkward jokes just because Zack was probably told to put them in because Avengers has jokes, let's do them jokey jokes just because.
So I watched it again and maybe I was a bit harsh. Its definitely a lot better than the original release, purely because characters like Flash are no longer just in the film but for no actual reason. I mean in the original even the main villain didn't really have any point. He was just sort of, there. So basically it actually has a story now, and oddly I don't really think the length is too long, although the way its structured definitely feels more like a mini series.
Couple of fairly major gripes with the plot though:
On the plus side I actually kind of want them to make the sequel now. The Darkseid sequel, not the Deadpool spends 3 hours gradually failing to kill Batman sequel.
In general tbh the DC films aren't any worse or better than the Marvel ones for me.
Also how would Flash be able to have an entire drawn out conversation with himself about his dad during the course of travelling a disance of about 0.3 miles at "much faster than the speed of light" This journey would have taken about 0.01 seconds. For someone who uses it so much you'd expect Schneider might know how slow motion works.
Couple of fairly major gripes with the plot though:
- How would Steppenwolf and co know the mother boxes are on earth, and yet NOT know the anti life equation was? They were clearly both left on the same planet, by them, so its literally impossible that they wouldn't already know both were on the same planet. I mean its already stupid that they would just forget what planet they left them on in the first place, because weren't they kind of, the entire point of everything they were up to? So they'd have just been sitting around doing nothing since being on earth, and then somehow forgot where Earth was, and then forgot that the mother boxes and anti life equation were on the same planet? Anyone this stupid is no credible threat to anyone. Its just lazy writing as well. They could have just written the story so that Darkseid wasn't aware of the anti life equation due to being taken out of the battle before it was cast or something. Stupid
- Also, when Darkseid says "ready the armada, we'll use the old ways"...but the mother boxes have been on earth the whole time, so wouldn't the only way they could have done anything since leaving them there have been the "old ways"? What are these people? Idiots? Going back to earth would literally have been the first time since the last time they were on Earth that they could have possibly not used the "old ways", so the old ways would in fact be the new ways. Again, just lazy writing and dumb dialogue
- Also, not to beat on the point, but why would they need to use the old ways when Steppenwolf could apparently just teleport tube himself to wherever he wanted? The teleporting tube of plot convenience. This is some Game of Thrones level bullshit.
- When Cyborg says to Batman "I heard about you, didn't think you were real" after having prior to this, hacked into batmans computer, in batman's secret lair. Again, no purpose to this dialogue other than to prove whoever wrote it was stupid.
Plot inconsistencies bug me when they're just dumb and avoidable.
- Also, when Darkseid says "ready the armada, we'll use the old ways"...but the mother boxes have been on earth the whole time, so wouldn't the only way they could have done anything since leaving them there have been the "old ways"? What are these people? Idiots? Going back to earth would literally have been the first time since the last time they were on Earth that they could have possibly not used the "old ways", so the old ways would in fact be the new ways. Again, just lazy writing and dumb dialogue
- Also, not to beat on the point, but why would they need to use the old ways when Steppenwolf could apparently just teleport tube himself to wherever he wanted? The teleporting tube of plot convenience. This is some Game of Thrones level bullshit.
- When Cyborg says to Batman "I heard about you, didn't think you were real" after having prior to this, hacked into batmans computer, in batman's secret lair. Again, no purpose to this dialogue other than to prove whoever wrote it was stupid.
Plot inconsistencies bug me when they're just dumb and avoidable.
On the plus side I actually kind of want them to make the sequel now. The Darkseid sequel, not the Deadpool spends 3 hours gradually failing to kill Batman sequel.
In general tbh the DC films aren't any worse or better than the Marvel ones for me.
Also how would Flash be able to have an entire drawn out conversation with himself about his dad during the course of travelling a disance of about 0.3 miles at "much faster than the speed of light" This journey would have taken about 0.01 seconds. For someone who uses it so much you'd expect Schneider might know how slow motion works.
Finished it in two sittings. Thought it was fairly good. I don't know if I'm too picky but I feel like neither this or Endgame hit the right tone with me. In Endgame, they're still getting their one-line zingers in despite the hyper-genocide of Earth and in this it feels far too doom and gloom despite the threat only kinda lingering for a large part. Dunno.
I liked Cyborg even if he was mainly broody and angry the whole time. His design is far too busy though.
Bats is Bats, Affleck is alright.
Couldn't fecking stand Flash. Any time he was on screen I was trying to think of who he reminded me of and then I figured it out. He is Troy when he was imitating Abed.
Gadot can't act to save her life but looks incredible as WW.
Momoa is a charming fecker. I'd kill for his body and hair.
Joker's scene was mercifully short. Reacharound, what the feck?
I don't think anyone has looked more perfect for Superman than Cavill. I loved his "Not impressed." line too, that was badass. When Superman shows off the powers, it is really great.
7.5, maybe 8 out of 10 for me.
The flash forward stuff intrigued me. Looking forward to corrupted/evil Superman.
Good to see Martian Manhunter too which makes me think where is Hawkgirl? Are they not including her in this JL?
I liked Cyborg even if he was mainly broody and angry the whole time. His design is far too busy though.
Bats is Bats, Affleck is alright.
Couldn't fecking stand Flash. Any time he was on screen I was trying to think of who he reminded me of and then I figured it out. He is Troy when he was imitating Abed.
Gadot can't act to save her life but looks incredible as WW.
Momoa is a charming fecker. I'd kill for his body and hair.
Joker's scene was mercifully short. Reacharound, what the feck?
I don't think anyone has looked more perfect for Superman than Cavill. I loved his "Not impressed." line too, that was badass. When Superman shows off the powers, it is really great.
7.5, maybe 8 out of 10 for me.
The flash forward stuff intrigued me. Looking forward to corrupted/evil Superman.
Good to see Martian Manhunter too which makes me think where is Hawkgirl? Are they not including her in this JL?
I’d like to see the story that was planned for this play out even in a comic book or a cartoon form, or even a mini series and they need to replace some actors. I just want to see where they were going. Feel like it had so much potential and if WB didn’t get hung up on ‘it’s too dark’ criticism they got then we might have gotten a decent universe
glad it's not just me that found this tedious