Leave Mickey Alone

[Manchesters Finest]

Why is everyone slating Mickey Silvestre? He is possibly one of the best wing backs we have ever had. He has pace,skill, control and good at crosses. How many goals have been scored this year by a Silvestre run and Cross? Also it seems that Den Irwin is leaving at the end of the season so then he will get the chance to piss all over the critics bonfires.

 

[Livvie]

Because he makes schoolboy errors too frequently.

No-one denies that he's improved 100%, but the whole defence makes silly mistakes, not just Silvestre.

 

[gordon]

Mikael Silvestre does go to sleep at times but so do others.he is good going forward down the left wing but seems to lose it in defence when tracking back.

 

[Amir]

Originally posted by Manchesters Finest:
[QB]Why is everyone slating Mickey Silvestre? He is possibly one of the best wing backs we have ever had.QB]<hr></blockquote>

Thats one of the problems. He plays full back for us, not wing back.

 

[DanishDevil]

Same problem we had with John Sivebæk!

 

[Roy]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>Because he makes schoolboy errors too frequently.

No-one denies that he's improved 100%</strong><hr></blockquote>

Has he?

And if so, improved 100% since what? the beginning of the season or last season?

 

[blythy]

There's no doubt Micky has improved (whether or not's 100% or not, I dunno). He is very good at carrying the ball, moving up field and distributing it in and around the box. His defending has improve, but like you've said, he still makes silly errors.

 

[Livvie]

Originally posted by Roy:
<strong>

Has he?

And if so, improved 100% since what? the beginning of the season or last season?</strong><hr></blockquote>


Since he arrived.

 

[suky gill]

100% i don't think so,improved yes
when he first joined i slagged him off all time but he has improved,and has potential to become a great player at UNITED.

 

[Murt]

wasnt he the player nearest Lomas for the Hammers opener today?

He does a lt of ballwatching as a defender, he should listen a bit more to Dennis Irwin and he could be a great player.

 

[United78]

Originally posted by DanishDevil:
Same problem we had with John Sivebæk!
<hr></blockquote>

I had forgotten all about him! <img src="graemlins/lol.gif" border="0" alt="[Laugh Out Loud]" />

 

[Roy]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>


Since he arrived.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Well I'd say he has definitely improved since he's arrived but that doesn't say much, does it.

I'd say Micky has done little or no progress from last year. He's been terribly inconsistent, awful at the start of the season, not bad during our good run and quite awful in the last 7-8 games as well. I think he's come to an age where he's quite unlikely to improve drastically. Minor improvements, yes, but that's not really what he needs in order to become a top class defender. He's a poor man marker, he ball-watches too much, his positional play is poor, he's unbelievably untidy, a poor passer of the ball and poor in the air as well. His carelessness has cost us big time and I've no doubt Fergie has spotted that as well (we put in a firm bid for Lizarazu in the summer).

With Denis leaving in the summer (prolly) I wouldn't be surprised to see a new top class LB brought in with Micky becoming 2nd choice. Rightly so as well IMO.

 

[Gazza]

Originally posted by Manchesters Finest:
<strong>Why is everyone slating Mickey Silvestre? He is possibly one of the best wing backs we have ever had. He has pace,skill, control and good at crosses. How many goals have been scored this year by a Silvestre run and Cross? Also it seems that Den Irwin is leaving at the end of the season so then he will get the chance to piss all over the critics bonfires.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Not sure about best wing-back we’ve ever had, but he is an imperative component of our defense. I do know why so many slate him tho. He, like everybody, makes mistakes. It’s just that they are highlighted so by the press, until when someone says the name Mikaël Silvestre all you can think about are his mistakes. But this is part and parcel of being a defender. The best defenders learn from their mistakes, and Silvy will too when given time. People forget he is still young, with much to learn; hopefully he will soon be as good as the like of Roberto Carlos was in his prime. But imo he is the best LB in the Premiership atm.

 

[Livvie]

Originally posted by suky gill:
<strong>100% i don't think so,improved yes
when he first joined i slagged him off all time but he has improved,and has potential to become a great player at UNITED.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Improving 100% doesn't mean he is a perfect player - just that he's at least twice as good as he was.

 

[mathiaslg]

Originally posted by Roy:
<strong>

Well I'd say he has definitely improved since he's arrived but that doesn't say much, does it.

I'd say Micky has done little or no progress from last year. He's been terribly inconsistent, awful at the start of the season, not bad during our good run and quite awful in the last 7-8 games as well. I think he's come to an age where he's quite unlikely to improve drastically. Minor improvements, yes, but that's not really what he needs in order to become a top class defender. He's a poor man marker, he ball-watches too much, his positional play is poor, he's unbelievably untidy, a poor passer of the ball and poor in the air as well. His carelessness has cost us big time and I've no doubt Fergie has spotted that as well (we put in a firm bid for Lizarazu in the summer).

With Denis leaving in the summer (prolly) I wouldn't be surprised to see a new top class LB brought in with Micky becoming 2nd choice. Rightly so as well IMO.</strong><hr></blockquote>

And which top class LB would you suggest? Chivu?

 

[Dans]

Agree with Roy on this one. Definitely don't agree with Gazza though, nobody deserves to be renamed Silvy after a bad performance.

 

[barca1999]

So Micky is the latest in the witchhunt......



Strange because what I saw of the game was a superb attacking performance, yet, what a surprise for people on here to ignore the positives (and the irrelevent fact that we won) and focus on the negatives.

Seems to always be the way on Redcafe.

 

[Dans]

Originally posted by barca1999:
<strong>So Micky is the latest in the witchhunt......



Strange because what I saw of the game was a superb attacking performance, yet, what a surprise for people on here to ignore the positives (and the irrelevent fact that we won) and focus on the negatives.

Seems to always be the way on Redcafe.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Change the record Sarah will ya? It's getting boring. I've maintained all season that he's a weakpoint and I will continue to do so until he improves. There's no need to be so blind to what happens on the pitch in front of you, he's been bad defensively all season and any amount of attacking play shouldn't make up for defensive deficiency. He is a defender after all not a winger.

 

[barca1999]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>

Change the record Sarah will ya? It's getting boring. I've maintained all season that he's a weakpoint and I will continue to do so until he improves. There's no need to be so blind to what happens on the pitch in front of you, he's been bad defensively all season and any amount of attacking play shouldn't make up for defensive deficiency. He is a defender after all not a winger.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah, wouldn't want to be discussing the same thing over and over again on the forum would we...

Is giving a player a little support so wrong?

Anyways, I don't see the point continually slating our players all the time, basically because nothing will come of it (i.e. Fergie will not read the forum one day and think 'you know, I've never thought it before but x is just not good enough, lets ship him out...)

Yesterday was a superb attacking performances with so many plus points and moments to enjoy, yet it's always 'focusing on the negatives' on this forum and I believe that is unfair on this superb team.

Why can't we just enjoy it without nit picking and looking for fraelties (sp) all the time?

 

[Dans]

Originally posted by barca1999:
<strong>

Yeah, wouldn't want to be discussing the same thing over and over again on the forum would we...

Is giving a player a little support so wrong?

Anyways, I don't see the point continually slating our players all the time, basically because nothing will come of it (i.e. Fergie will not read the forum one day and think 'you know, I've never thought it before but x is just not good enough, lets ship him out...)

Yesterday was a superb attacking performances with so many plus points and moments to enjoy, yet it's always 'focusing on the negatives' on this forum and I believe that is unfair on this supber team.

Why can't we just enjoy it without nit picking and looking for fraelties (sp) all the time?</strong><hr></blockquote>

Actually it is anything but 'focus on the negatives' in this forum. There are plenty of threads praising players, it's just that you seem to ignore these threads and YOU go looking for and focus on the negative threads.

Nobody is continually slating players and if you care to pay more attention to the postive threads you'll see that plenty of posters who have previously slated players are more than happy to give them their dues when they deserve it. Gary Neville is a case in point. All people are doing is voicing their concerns and opinions which is what the forum is all about. I'm sort of tired explaining this to you actually Sarah. We're all more than entitled to do so, if you read other threads then perhaps you'd realise that this isn't the 'slate the team' forum that you seem to think it is.

Yesterday's performance was no doubt a great achievement of attacking football and we all enjoy the ride that United takes us on, but it doesn't mean players are immune to criticism. I can appreciate that at the ground 100% backing is required, but we are on a message board here and it's purpose is for United fans to air their views. Defensively we are not all that, especially not so in Europe. Am I not right in thinking that SAFs greatest ambition this season is to win the CL in his hometown? Well with defending like that displayed by Silvestre on Wednesday night and previously in the competition we risk not going to Glasgow. It's all very well scoring 5 against West Ham, but we ain't about to do the same against the likes of Bayern and Real.

 

[mathiaslg]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>

Change the record Sarah will ya? It's getting boring. I've maintained all season that he's a weakpoint and I will continue to do so until he improves. There's no need to be so blind to what happens on the pitch in front of you, he's been bad defensively all season and any amount of attacking play shouldn't make up for defensive deficiency. He is a defender after all not a winger.</strong><hr></blockquote>

The question is are you (or anyone) willing to tolerate such bad performances from local United players defensively. Wes, Phil and Gary aren't exactly brilliant players in their own right, and Phil isn't better than Silvestre in any regard. If we are talking about replacing defenders, or simply adding players on, I think we should discuss all the weakpoints rather than just one.

 

[barca1999]

Everyone is intitled to their own opinion....

Anyways I'm off to change the record over a few scoops <img src="confused.gif" border="0">

 

[barca1999]

Originally posted by mathiaslg:
<strong>

The question is are you (or anyone) willing to tolerate such bad performances from local United players defensively. Wes, Phil and Gary aren't exactly brilliant players in their own right, and Phil isn't better than Silvestre in any regard. If we are talking about replacing defenders, or simply adding players on, I think we should discuss all the weakpoints rather than just one.</strong><hr></blockquote>

That's a good point, why not discuss the defence as a whole without always focusing on one to blame i.e. a scapegoat.

ALL the team are responsible for defending, you can't just pin the blame on one player.

 

[Dans]

I don't know where you've got hold of this foreign player predjudice I apparently exhibit. Every player is judged on merit. Gary Neville played badly at the start of the season but has done well since and has received just praise for his performances. Furthermore the thread is about Silvestre and he is the one who has looked weakest throughout the season. Philip Neville will never be more than a squad player and Wes Brown has had a bad season as has been acknowledged IMO, but deserves to have judgement reserved bearing in mind his age and his recent long term injury which would no doubt have hindered his progress.

 

[Dans]

Originally posted by barca1999:
<strong>Everyone is intitled to their own opinion....

Anyways I'm off to change the record over a few scoops </strong><hr></blockquote>

Of course they are. But you weigh in with the same one every time somebody dares criticise a player. Apparently we're making scapegoats and we're not getting behind the team. As for your 'Fergie doesn't read the forum and therefore won't act on our advice' comment, you'll forgive me for thinking that quite ludicrous won't you? If you honestly think that people write what they do in the hope that somebody at OT is reading and may take heed of the advice then you should stay away from forums altogether, cos everyone will annoy you incessantly surely?

 

[mathiaslg]

Originally posted by Dans:
<strong>I don't know where you've got hold of this foreign player predjudice I apparently exhibit. Every player is judged on merit. Gary Neville played badly at the start of the season but has done well since and has received just praise for his performances. Furthermore the thread is about Silvestre and he is the one who has looked weakest throughout the season. Philip Neville will never be more than a squad player and Wes Brown has had a bad season as has been acknowledged IMO, but deserves to have judgement reserved bearing in mind his age and his recent long term injury which would no doubt have hindered his progress.</strong><hr></blockquote>

It was directed at everyone, and not just you. However, the fact remains, there have always been arguments about keeping players that aren't United calibre simply because they are United through and through or such. Is that judging on merit?? Now, Phil isn't a bad player, but he isn't United class. Is Gary a class CB/RB? I would classify him as solid, and not much more. Wes is nothing more than average, and I haven't even been too impressed with O'Shea, despite all the hype (granted, he is young, but seems to lack a lot of pace). As for the topic, i.e. Silvestre...Well, whether or not he is United calibre is also up for debate. He certainly has the physical capability for top class football, and the question now remains whether or not he is capable mentally. Mind you, I wouldn't mind seeing Chivu at United, but I don't think Silvestre is as weak of a link as he is made out to be. Honestly, much of the weaknesses I have seen on the left have as much to do with the midfield support (or the lack thereof) than Silvestre is given. When one looks at a defensive mistake, one can't concentrate on one player and ignore the rest of the pitch.

 

[Kristjan]

Originally posted by Murt:
<strong>wasnt he the player nearest Lomas for the Hammers opener today?

He does a lt of ballwatching as a defender, he should listen a bit more to Dennis Irwin and he could be a great player.</strong><hr></blockquote>

you mean like Blanc was ballwatching for the third goal ...

 

[Murt]

Originally posted by Kristjan:
<strong>

you mean like Blanc was ballwatching for the third goal ...</strong><hr></blockquote>

Larry was onto that ball but was beaten to it. the cross should never have come in so easily from the left back position for starters.

The problem with Mickey is he doesnt seem to take defending seriously enough. He wants to play in centre back but still Lomas won that header yesterday as if he wasnt their. Its so frustrating to watch him do that as otherwise hes a great player, he just needs to learn how to do the simple things right.

 

[Livvie]

If anyone criticises Blanc, or Veron, or Silvestre, to name a few, most posters will wade in and defend them to the hilt. Nothing wrong with that, except those same posters are calling for Forlan to partner RVN, or for Crespo to be signed asap. So the words may not be there, but those same people are saying Ole isn't good enough. Case of double standards I think.

 

[mathiaslg]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>If anyone criticises Blanc, or Veron, or Silvestre, to name a few, most posters will wade in and defend them to the hilt. Nothing wrong with that, except those same posters are calling for Forlan to partner RVN, or for Crespo to be signed asap. So the words may not be there, but those same people are saying Ole isn't good enough. Case of double standards I think.</strong><hr></blockquote>

In some cases, but not all. I will defend a player when blame is resting almost entirely upon him as if he alone is bringing the team down when that is not the case at all. Silvestre deserves criticism, no doubt, but to act as if it is only his fault is too one-deminsional.

 

[barca1999]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>those same people are saying Ole isn't good enough.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Yeah that Ole's rubbish isn't he!

How United fans cannot be satisfied with our two strikers is beyond me, they are both world class and I wouldn't swap them for anyone else.

 

[giggzy]

i think our problem is that we are very attack minded...i am sure we'll continue to have defensive problems even if we buy Nesta or Hofland...


personally, i love our style...

 

[barca1999]

attack attack attack, it's the United way

Wouldn't change it for the world.

 

[Raoul]

Barring the availablity of a world class replacement (ala Lizerazu last summer), Silvestre will not be leaving. And yes all you Xenophobes, Waybe Bridge would not / could not displace him. I would expect Silvestre to remain at his current position for the rest of Fergie's stay.

 

[Livvie]

Originally posted by barca1999:
<strong>

Yeah that Ole's rubbish isn't he!

How United fans cannot be satisfied with our two strikers is beyond me, they are both world class and I wouldn't swap them for anyone else.</strong><hr></blockquote>

Agreed. You can spend 35 million or whatever - but you can't guarantee a United heart.

And you don't fix what isn't broke.

 

[cD]

Originally posted by Livvie20:
<strong>Because he makes schoolboy errors too frequently.

No-one denies that he's improved 100%, but the whole defence makes silly mistakes, not just Silvestre.</strong><hr></blockquote>

You could attribute that to inexperience..His defending HAS improved a great deal over the past season and a half or so and he is a world class attacking LB.

 

[barca1999]

all he needs is a decent song cause the current one is pants

 

[Red down under]

Originally posted by mathiaslg:
<strong>

.... the fact remains, there have always been arguments about keeping players that aren't United calibre simply because they are United through and through or such. Is that judging on merit?? Now, Phil isn't a bad player, but he isn't United class...</strong><hr></blockquote>

I think this is a bit unfair on Phil. Sven seems to think it's OK to include him in all his England squads. That's not a bad result for a player who is not an ever-present for his club. I can't think of any other England player in this situation apart from Butt maybe.

 

[reelworld]

I think his defensive works against West Ham was a little bit poor because he also should support the attack in the absence of Giggs. Scholes played more to the middle, so that leaves poor Mikky with the left wing very much on his own for much of the game.
While I think he was at fault for the first goal, I don't think he's a bad player. I think he's a very good young player who just need some time to reach his potential.

 

[Pi]

Can Mickey run faster than Giggs? He seemed capable of.