Leeds (dirty thugs) discussion

Maluco

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I think he has done a good job and I genuinely do think that Leeds were a great watch at times.

But, he can’t be absolved of the blame because of injuries.

He insisted on having a smaller squad (as he tends to do), and at the same time, insisted on a style which is very intensive for players.

You can’t decide you want that combination and have that excuse when it doesn’t go well.
 

Beans

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It's a shame that football is inherently a defensive game, watching a Bielsa team is great fun, but over time you'll give up more chances than you create.
 

Vaultech

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Beans said:
It's a shame that football is inherently a defensive game, watching a Bielsa team is great fun, but over time you'll give up more chances than you create.
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I disagree. If its a defensive game, then managers like Pep won't be winning trophies left right and center. It's an offensive game, with defensive managers being cowards and dulling the game.

Football as played by kids is not about defending. In its purest form it's about attacking and having fun from seeing good attacking football. The dullest games are the ones when both teams are defensive and that ruins the sport. The only reason it is defensive is because of financial interest in the game, where not losing is suddenly seen as valuable when it actually isn't.

Go and ask how many people would actually watch Burnley if they are not playing a top PL team. Bielsa is a romantic about football in its purest sense. He understands that football has to entertain people. Just a few defensive match against top opponents might make some fans happy on rare occasion that it worked, but how often has Burnley's defensive football worked against Man City? They defend for 90 mins and still get slaughtered by top PL teams anyway.

The downfall of Bielsa lies in his relatively poor squad compared to his rivals. In the Championship, where Leeds financial might are comparable to most teams, Bielsa has shown he can build a squad that win promotion. His tactics can work, if the squad are in the same calibre as Liverpool or Man City.

Let's not forget how his Atheltic Bilbao slaughtered Man Utd in 2012.

Hell, give him Man Utd squad and you can see how strongly the team can perform with his methods.

I wish Bielsa will coach Man Utd, but knowing him, he would not sign for a rival club to Leeds. The Glazers will probably disgust him as well. If you want the most principled anti-glazer manager out there for Man Utd, that would be Bielsa.

But no, some Man Utd fans will rather opt for an "established and proven" coach like Mourinho purely because they want an easy path to winning trophies.
 

horsechoker

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Beans said:
It's a shame that football is inherently a defensive game, watching a Bielsa team is great fun, but over time you'll give up more chances than you create.
Click to expand...
Why don't boxers just keep their hands down? It would be a much better sport if they did
 

GuybrushThreepwood

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I can probably go back to disliking Leeds again now. I only liked them during the past few years because of Bielsa.

I thought that after the win away to West Ham last month, they’d push on and move comfortably away from the bottom 3, but they were sleepwalking towards relegation.

In terms of style of play, numerous teams have been relegated playing overly negative and cautious football, for example Birmingham twice under McLeish in 2008 and 2011 (then Villa were daft enough to hire him), Middlesbrough under Karanka in 2017 etc. At least regularly losing playing decent football is better for fans than regularly losing playing negative football.

Ultimately Bielsa got a team regularly finishing in the bottom half of the Championship promoted to the Premier League (after nearly getting them promoted during his first season), led them to a 9th place finish last year with no serious relegation danger, and drastically improved their style of play pretty instantly. A clear success.
 

Vaultech

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Dr. StrangeHate said:
He got Leeds promoted when no one else could. He kept them up comfortably last year with a squad that had no business in the PL. How do you think you are right?
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Probably a Mourinho fan. Hates attacking football because it's too hipster to be attacking.

Leeds fans still love him despite him being sacked. Anyone that don't understand why haven't seen or read enough about football outside news about the top 4 teams.
 

The holy trinity 68

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Vaultech said:
Overrated for getting Leeds promoted?

I guess Klopp and Pep are overrated in your mind too.
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:lol: Plenty of managers got teams promoted that were not very good.


Dr. StrangeHate said:
He got Leeds promoted when no one else could. He kept them up comfortably last year with a squad that had no business in the PL. How do you think you are right?
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You have just described plenty of managers though, it's not like teams haven't been promoting when the odds were against them then kept them in the PL.

Vaultech said:
Probably a Mourinho fan. Hates attacking football because it's too hipster to be attacking.

Leeds fans still love him despite him being sacked. Anyone that don't understand why haven't seen or read enough about football outside news about the top 4 teams.
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:houllier::lol: What a ridiculous post. Last season Bielsa was being hyped up to ridiculous levels on social media and by pundits. There was even a managers thread on this forum with plenty of people voting him the 4th best manager in the PL. He is a decent manager but he is over rated considering the hype he got and how he has Leeds playing this season.

Saying I must hate attacking football and mentioning a hipster view is nonsense.

They have conceded 20 goals in the last 5 games, only scoring 5 in the process.

They have conceded 42 goals in the last 14 league games, that is 3 goals conceded per game on average. They have scored 17 goals in these 14 games, that is only 1.21 goals on average per game. That doesn't sound very attacking to me.

I would describe his football as gun ho, wide open and naive. But keep hyping him up as this amazingly attacking manager. He doesn't deserve to be praise in his attacking football if he ignores the defence altogether and cannot adapt.

He is a decent manager but he is overrated.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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Beans said:
It's a shame that football is inherently a defensive game, watching a Bielsa team is great fun, but over time you'll give up more chances than you create.
Click to expand...
Its a shame opposition is allowed to score goals. 60 of them before the season is little more than halfway through. Daddy Bielsa's team should be allowed to play a game where they only attack and not bother with defence like all the other peasants.
 

padzilla

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Vaultech said:
I disagree. If its a defensive game, then managers like Pep won't be winning trophies left right and center. It's an offensive game, with defensive managers being cowards and dulling the game.

Football as played by kids is not about defending. In its purest form it's about attacking and having fun from seeing good attacking football. The dullest games are the ones when both teams are defensive and that ruins the sport. The only reason it is defensive is because of financial interest in the game, where not losing is suddenly seen as valuable when it actually isn't.

Go and ask how many people would actually watch Burnley if they are not playing a top PL team. Bielsa is a romantic about football in its purest sense. He understands that football has to entertain people. Just a few defensive match against top opponents might make some fans happy on rare occasion that it worked, but how often has Burnley's defensive football worked against Man City? They defend for 90 mins and still get slaughtered by top PL teams anyway.

The downfall of Bielsa lies in his relatively poor squad compared to his rivals. In the Championship, where Leeds financial might are comparable to most teams, Bielsa has shown he can build a squad that win promotion. His tactics can work, if the squad are in the same calibre as Liverpool or Man City.

Let's not forget how his Atheltic Bilbao slaughtered Man Utd in 2012.

Hell, give him Man Utd squad and you can see how strongly the team can perform with his methods.

I wish Bielsa will coach Man Utd, but knowing him, he would not sign for a rival club to Leeds. The Glazers will probably disgust him as well. If you want the most principled anti-glazer manager out there for Man Utd, that would be Bielsa.

But no, some Man Utd fans will rather opt for an "established and proven" coach like Mourinho purely because they want an easy path to winning trophies.
Click to expand...
I would be stunned if any United fans want Mourinho back as coach.
 

Beans

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Wednesday at Stoke said:
Its a shame opposition is allowed to score goals. 60 of them before the season is little more than halfway through. Daddy Bielsa's team should be allowed to play a game where they only attack and not bother with defence like all the other peasants.
Click to expand...
I can't agree with that.
 

nuanced

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Everyone in the Leeds camp from the fans to their chairman lauding the 'sacked' Bielsa, yet caftard who barely watch them a handful of times a year know better than all of them :lol:
 

The holy trinity 68

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ThierryHenry14 said:
I will give Pep, Klopp and Conte's opinion on Bielsa more weight than yours. It is also the same for their opinion on Adama Traore than the common opinion in Redcafe.
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And I will give the results and performances this season more weight than that.

Apart from the Championship last season, he has not won a trophy since the Olympics in 2004, and the last time he won a top flight club trophy was in 1998 in Argentina.

The hype he gets considering he has such a poor trophy cabinet is absurd. Like I said, he is a decent manager but over hyped and not as good as people pretend.
 

Maluco

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I feel like Everton and Leeds haven’t felt their immediate danger enough when they were thinking about these managerial changes.

The likes of Watford and Burnley are now much better equipped for the run in.

Both only 5-6 points off the very bottom of the league with a lot of games to come.

I don’t think this is a good appointment at all.
 

Iker Quesadillas

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ThierryHenry14 said:
I will give Pep, Klopp and Conte's opinion on Bielsa more weight than yours.
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Do managers do much in public other than give each other praise?
Guardiola said if Bielsa managed City he'd win titles. Is he going to recommend his as City's next manager? I'm sure he has sway.
 

Vaultech

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The holy trinity 68 said:
:houllier::lol: What a ridiculous post. Last season Bielsa was being hyped up to ridiculous levels on social media and by pundits. There was even a managers thread on this forum with plenty of people voting him the 4th best manager in the PL. He is a decent manager but he is over rated considering the hype he got and how he has Leeds playing this season.

Saying I must hate attacking football and mentioning a hipster view is nonsense.

They have conceded 20 goals in the last 5 games, only scoring 5 in the process.

They have conceded 42 goals in the last 14 league games, that is 3 goals conceded per game on average. They have scored 17 goals in these 14 games, that is only 1.21 goals on average per game. That doesn't sound very attacking to me.

I would describe his football as gun ho, wide open and naive. But keep hyping him up as this amazingly attacking manager. He doesn't deserve to be praise in his attacking football if he ignores the defence altogether and cannot adapt.

He is a decent manager but he is overrated.
Click to expand...
Last season he managed to achieve 9th position in the PL, while going toe-to-toe with some of the top teams, beating a number of them (including Man City) and drawing with others. This season he didn't do as well, partly down to his injury list.

Bielsa was lauded because of what he managed to do with a limited squad. Context matters. It's your problem that you fail to understand context.


Iker Quesadillas said:
They lost the two finals they played that season, 3-0 each.
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Against peak Barca and against Simone's Atletico. The fact they even got to the final was impressive on its own.
 

Iker Quesadillas

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Vaultech said:
Against peak Barca and against Simone's Atletico. The fact they even got to the final was impressive on its own.
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Simeone had been managing Atletico for half a season, losing 3-0 to them was not expected and pretty embarrassing. Barcelona are a tougher opponent, but it was not 'peak' Barcelona, that was Pep's last season, they were faltering.
Athletic also finished 10th and 12th in La Liga under Bielsa. They finished 4th the season after he left. They've played 3 Copa del Rey finals since then, they're the team with second most Copa wins in Spain.
 

Vaultech

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Iker Quesadillas said:
Simeone had been managing Atletico for half a season, losing 3-0 to them was not expected and pretty embarrassing. Barcelona are a tougher opponent, but it was not 'peak' Barcelona, that was Pep's last season, they were faltering.
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It's still an Atletico team managed by Simeone. Simeone haven't proved himself when he was appointed, but his ability as a coach was always there.

Barcelona was on the decline, but even in its decline it was still an extremely good team that few other clubs dared to play against on a front-foot.

Athletic also finished 10th and 12th in La Liga under Bielsa. They finished 4th the season after he left. They've played 3 Copa del Rey finals since then, they're the team with second most Copa wins in Spain.
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Athletic played an insane amount of games that season. Back then they said they were concentrating on the Europa league and the cup ties over that of the league position.
 

V.O.

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Samid said:
Smells like relegation :drool:
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Can't say I'd mind, but they're about the only cnuts we can reliably beat a couple of times most years. Everton taking the spot would still be funnier.
 

Offside

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They’re absolutely gone I think. Getting spanked weekly. Even we beat them.
 
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