LVG 'laying the foundations'

[Tyrion]

I don't really want to add another anti-LVG thread but I've been thinking about this for a while.

Has he really laid any foundations? He's played plenty of young players but they were already there when he arrived and they haven't really improved under him. McNair, Blackett, Januzaj and Wilson all seem to have vanished from his plans after a season either rarely playing or going on loan to poor leagues and I imagine if he was here for another year, Lingard, Fosu-Mensah and Borthwick-Jackson would all struggle to get in the side assuming we bothered to strengthen at all. Personally I don't think these 3 will be good enough regardless of how much gametime they're given, as harsh as that sounds.

My point is that anyone can play younger players. I can do that if I was manager; I just pick 11 guys who are 22 or younger. The trick is improving them and doing it without (much) short term cost and he's failed at both imo.

Wrt scouting, I've seen no improvements (if anything the opposite) and any changes to the academy system seems to be coming more from Woodward.

Finally our tactics are awful. We play a possesion game but a terrible one that's painfully slow and ineffective. Besides, any of the managers we're linked to atm (Mou, Giggs, Pochetino, Simeone) will change the way we play anyway.

Has he really laid any foundations (whatever that means) or is this a myth that he's spread to lessen the pressure on him and his two years here have been a waste?

 

[izec]

He is just so shit that it automatically will get better.

 

[ti vu]

LVG got sharp eye for good players. He is just bad at managing/ motivating / decision making. If we're able to get a better coach in, won't be surprised some of the shit players would transform and feel like complete different players. His Barcelona, Bayern time and his first stint with Netherland NT showed that even with talented playing squads, his mismanagement could make the team underperforming. In the right hand, some of those players were able to reach great height.

 

[Tyrion]

LVG got sharp eye for good players. He is just bad at managing/ motivating / decision making. If we're able to get a better coach in, won't be surprised some of the shit players would transform and feel like complete different players. His Barcelona, Bayern time and his first stint with Netherland NT showed that even with talented playing squads, his mismanagement could make the team underperforming. In the right hand, some of those players were able to reach great height.

Which ones do you think he's brought in that might improve?

 

[RedStarUnited]

unfortunetly, if TFM, Rashford and Martial go on to be regulars, LVG will take most of the credit for that.

And to be honest, someone like Rashford or Martial will hold LVG in really high regard. He gambled on them and plays them day in day out.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

There are no foundations. When he leaves, his methods and tactics will be discarded along with most of his signings.

 

[grahamo]

laying the foundations for mediocrity. Can it get worse? I suppose the only way is up from here!

 

[Kaos]

He is just so shit that it automatically will get better.

This.

I'm beginning to think his philosophy is destroying the club, wiping the slate clean and hence making the next manager a success by default.

Looking back at his time at Barca and Bayern it all makes sense.

 

[InfiniteBoredom]

Mensah, Rashford, Martial have been bright spots. CBJ might amounts to something and this new guy Chong may work out too.

If we are being brutally honest though, the squad he will leave behind while much younger and has more potential will also be weaker and vastly more inexperienced than the squad he got, so his tenure here, FA Cup or not, has been overall an abysmal one. Well, he might yet stay another season and surprise us, I guess.

 

[Xaviesta]

The foundations business is a rubbish myth that I'm pretty sure wasn't around before he became United's manager. I don't remember any talk of Louis van Gaal laying the foundations for Jupp Heynckes's treble in 2013.

 

[Sky1981]

unfortunetly, if TFM, Rashford and Martial go on to be regulars, LVG will take most of the credit for that.

And to be honest, someone like Rashford or Martial will hold LVG in really high regard. He gambled on them and plays them day in day out.

He shouldn't take the job he gets paid a fortune with to gamble around.

Extreme measure last effort perhaps, but if his idea of developing youth is just to take a punt and fingers crossed they click then it doesn't bode well for us. Like the op says it's very easy to pick a youngster.

With saf it's very different, it's very sistemic. If he fields a youngster he had a purpose, he has a vision, he knows exactly when to field them, when to pull them off the team to keep their and salary feet on the ground, he knows when to loan them, he knows exactly when they're ready (bar pogba), and he knows if they dont make it and make the sale on time.

With lvg he doesnt play mcnair because he sees something in him, he just pick him randomly. He didnt know and plan well with januzaj, perreira, he just simply pick anyone new and play them again if they click and ditch them when the going gets tough. It's development by percentage

 

[CG1010]

The foundations that were referred to were:
(i) development of a broad playing philosophy and making the players stronger in thinking on the field
(ii) bringing up a core of young players who could be mainstay in the team.

On (i) he has failed miserably. The players look more clueless than ever, and we desperately need to start over. On (ii) he has had partial success by bringing Martial, Shaw, Rashford and to an extent TFM to the first team. But it doesn't feel like he has contributed much towards their development - its just that they were brought by us as bright young talents or happened to be there in the academy when we needed backup players and turned out to be good players.

 

[rooney1905]

He doesn't really pick them though. Most got in the side due to injury. He likes to take credit but most of our youth would never be near the first team had it not been for injuries. He has no idea what he is doing from a management approach.

 

[Robbie Boy]

http://www.football365.com/news/manchester-united-the-ridiculous-statistics

Here's some stats. I have no fecking idea what foundations this man is laying.

 

[ti vu]

Which ones do you think he's brought in that might improve?

Damian, Schneiderlin ( vs City away is the best destroying display in years as an Unites player when being used in his correct role. He's not Carrick), Bastian, Martial (he is short of good supply and even mismanaged at time being instructed to stick wide, used on the right), Herrera, Blind (he's punching above his height to be used as CB. Should be used differently), Shaw (mismanaged in first season)...

And players before LVG's arrival: Carrick & Rooney (both suffered from LVG possession philosophy. They have been declining but surely can be more useful than what currently show), Mata (luxury player. However if being utilized wisely, can offer great output in final third. He even had good output at the end of Moyes season. Show at time he has nose for goal from the floating position), Januzaj (simply not LVG type of player)...

Team knows a different approach, passing game than one route direct football (still at very low level). Under the right coach, this helps adding another dimensional. Players had been (over)trained to use their heads to play football. Under good coach, with good motivation, freedom, this would be an great ingredient toward multi dimensional football.

And last but not least, we're slowly building the leadership in the team (not good the moment), which was completely destroyed under Moyes.

 

[pcaming]

foundations for our tombstone maybe

 

[Smores]

He doesn't really pick them though. Most got in the side due to injury. He likes to take credit but most of our youth would never be near the first team had it not been for injuries. He has no idea what he is doing from a management approach.

He also tried to sign several players so it's not like it was even by choice.

I'd give him a fair bit of recognition for playing Rashford now continiously but that's about it.

 

[CG1010]

He also tried to sign several players so it's not like it was even by choice.

I'd give him a fair bit of recognition for playing Rashford now continiously but that's about it.

Even that's obviously to be honest. He has easily been the second best attacking player this season and he only played in the second half! The other players have been that bad...

 

[Bastian]

He's trained the team to keep possession. Without a winning mentality this is less evident when we are being pressed or when we are protecting a lead. There have been a few games when our possession game was actually good.

He's given some youngsters a chance who may be thankful to him long into their careers at OT.

He's overseen Smalling become a good player.

He bought Martial.

That concludes it.

 

[Crustanoid]

'Laying the foundations' for mid-table next season, if he carries on defacing our club.

 

[Amar__]

We have to improve in pretty much every position even after he spent so much money and brought so many youngsters, of course he didn't lay any foundations. He's been absolute waste of time and money in pretty much every aspect.

 

[devilish]

Of course he is. Can he now leave so that another manager can 'reap the fruits' of his hard work?

 

[Tyrion]

This.

I'm beginning to think his philosophy is destroying the club, wiping the slate clean and hence making the next manager a success by default.

Looking back at his time at Barca and Bayern it all makes sense.

That actually makes sense. He keeps saying our expectations are "in the past" when he's saying he's one of the best managers in the world.

 

[dogrob]

'Laying the foundations' for mid-table next season, if he carries on defacing our club.

Took the words right out of my mouth.

 

[NinjaFletch]

I really find it hard to believe that people think we're worse off now than we were before.

He's not done a good enough job, and not improved us as much as he should have, but with the exception of right wing and possibly striker we're better in virtually every department, in terms of personnel, than we were before he arrived.

A new manager, the right signings in the right places and I'm genuinely excited about this team and the potential there.

 

[Insanity]

De Gea
Valencia Smalling Blind Shaw
Carrick
Schweinsteiger Fellaini
Mata Rooney Martial
​

With everyone fully fit, this would be VG's most preferred formation from what I have observed this season. That's 4 players from the 13 he has signed in his two years; one of the four is a 33 year Bayern has been. What foundation?

The central defense has a converted midfielder who cannot head the ball and a converted winger who can neither defend nor attack properly.
The midfield is a mess.
The attack is a mess.

Foundations to our ultimate demise, maybe. History will equate him as our Souness.

 

[Drifter]

I'm sure that's what the board had in mind when they hired him.Not sure if he's full filled that but he'll have another season to continue.

 

[Kostur]

Only foundations he's laid so far are those where he tells everybody that our expectations are too high, we're living in past and he actually managed to convince some people that when we finally bounce off the rock bottom and it's only natural we'll get better, it will be thanks to him.

A fecking mindcontroller.

 

[Natener]

LVG got sharp eye for good players. He is just bad at managing/ motivating / decision making. If we're able to get a better coach in, won't be surprised some of the shit players would transform and feel like complete different players. His Barcelona, Bayern time and his first stint with Netherland NT showed that even with talented playing squads, his mismanagement could make the team underperforming. In the right hand, some of those players were able to reach great height.

This. I don't know about LVG having a sharp eye for good players but Darmian impressed me early in the season. Schneiderlin was highly rated at Southampton, as was Herrera before joining us. So, I don't think our signings aren't United quality because they certainly are capable of much more than the shite they showed under the LVG.

 

[mu77]

foundation

the make LVG 5m a year foundation. give till it hurts!

 

[BennyBlanco]

De Gea
Valencia Smalling Blind Shaw
Carrick
Schweinsteiger Fellaini
Mata Rooney Martial
​

With everyone fully fit, this would be VG's most preferred formation from what I have observed this season. That's 4 players from the 13 he has signed in his two years; one of the four is a 33 year Bayern has been. What foundation?

The central defense has a converted midfielder who cannot head the ball and a converted winger who can neither defend nor attack properly.
The midfield is a mess.
The attack is a mess.

Foundations to our ultimate demise, maybe. History will equate him as our Souness.

Shaw wasn't even his signing, the club had already struck the deal before he came in, same as Herrera.
Schweinsteiger is about done too from your 11.
He doesnt know how to utilize Schneiderlin or Memphis or Herrera, Rojo is bang average, Darmian looks a shadow of himself under this guy, etc etc.
The guy is a biblical wanker and he's done a shit job with the "Rebuild/Foundation/Process"

 

[Raoul]

....of gelatin.

 

[Twigg]

I think he's given the next manager a lot of good to work with. We've got great defensive cohesion (I mean, by what other miracle are we 5th with such an abysmal attack?), and a good goup of young'uns coming through, even if most of them won't make it here. At least that's something to be optimistic about. I feel more confident in the next manager coming in with our current setup than when Fergie or Moyes left.

Not gonna pretend he isn't though, of course he is, he's failed massively considering. I'm just trying to spin a bit of optimism.

 

[Crustanoid]

Make him the foundation for a new car park near OT

 

[MkPaul]

We have to improve in pretty much every position even after he spent so much money and brought so many youngsters, of course he didn't lay any foundations. He's been absolute waste of time and money in pretty much every aspect.

Disagree. The quality of the players shouldn't be in doubt IMO, I think it's much more to do with the system LvG is forcing them to play or him not motivating them properly. We don't need massive changes to the squad in the summer providing LvG is the manager.

GK - DDG - World Class

LB - Shaw - Great before his injury, potential to be amazing.
CB - Smalling - Our best defender by far and not many people would replace him on here.
CB - Blind - Splits the crowd - If there was a top CB available then we should invest heavily & Blind could be a good utility player.
RB - Darmian - Started fantastic, has dipped in form massively. He could go either way but I think our options here should suffice for another year.

LW - Martial - No explanation needed.
CM - Schneiderlin - Has been pretty poor so far but at Southampton he was the best CDM in the league, I would imagine he would be a different player all together under someone like Jose.
CM - Herrera - Again, splits the crowd but has so much potential. Dubbed the next captain of Spain at Bilbao. In a less rigid system he would flourish imo.
RW - #### - We need a world class player here who can beat a player and score goals.

ST - Rashford - Looks bright, still needs time to develop, don't want to burn him out (LvG has actually managed him very well on this occasion IMO)
ST - Rooney - He isn't good enough in the position and whether we put him in midfield or not, we need a world class striker to lead the attack.

Buy a CB/RW/ST and we're well on our way to comfortably winning the league with a new manager.

 

[Nighteyes]

"LVG is laying the foundations of the club"

"LVG is modernizing the football of the club"

Two statements often used by the so called tactical experts on here. Just complete rubbish.

LVG is one of the biggest frauds I have seen. Utterly clueless from day one a the club.

 

[OnlyTwoDaSilvas]

LvG deserves some credit for Fosu Mensah, doesn't he? I was under the impression he was an LvG transfer. Happened on the same day as Daley Blind but slipped under the radar

 

[NoLogo]

If by laying the foundations you mean shitting all over our club then he is doing a good job.

 

[Oo0AahCantona]

He's laid the foundations in C4

 

[Balu]

CM - Herrera - Again, splits the crowd but has so much potential. Dubbed the next captain of Spain at Bilbao. In a less rigid system he would flourish imo.

That can't be true? Was he ever even close to be called up?