MADN Draft R1 — Enigma vs General

[Šjor Bepo]

vs

Team Enigma

Formation: 4-4-2
Style: Direct, counter attacking

Defence:
Sammer as ball playing center back he's flanked by defensive full back in Tassotti, who has played a similar role alongside libero Baresi at Milan. On the left side we have Jordi Alba who is in his typical attacking full back role. Ciro Ferrara plays as a stopper.

Midfield:
A very dynamic midfield four with 2 B2B monsters in Kante and Tardelli in the middle, flanked by Boniek and Gullit. We will press the opposition and force a mistake when off the ball, where Gullit and Boniek will break the lines and connect with the strike duo.

Attack:
Fenomeno and Eto'o will lead the line and alongside Gullit and Boniek will be a fearsome quartet especially on counter.

My team:
R. Hellstrom - Germany
Jordi Alba - Spain
Ciro Ferrara - Italy
Matthias Sammer - Germany
Mauro Tassotti - Italy
N’golo Kante - England
Marco Tardelli - Italy
Zbigniew Boniek - Italy
Rudy Gullit - Italy
Samuel Eto’o - Spain
Luis Ronaldo - Italy



Team General

Formation:4-2-3-1

Goalkeeper:Gianluigi Buffon,aka one of the best goalkeeper of all times,great positioning,commanding and shot stopping

Defenders:Strong backline from Cannavaro+Vogts+Schnellinger+Luis,all of them have the intensity and mentality of pitbulls,never give up on anything(especially Vogts and Cannavaro),very aggressive mentality and have great fighting spirits to chase the ball back from the oppositions.

Cannavaro and Vogts had captained the National/club teams for many times too.

Additional points:Karl Heinz Schnellinger dbs calcio rating was highest when he had played at sweeper/cb role not lb,so in this game I prefer him to be a lcb/sweeper.

Filipe Luis has beem recognized during 2013-2017 as one of the best left backs in the world,Luis was/is an attacking left back with great crossing abilities and overlapping,he was a great defender with well timing tackles and always aware of opponet left wingers.

He was on the part of solid Atletico's back line,which was considered to be one of the best backline in the world during this time.This backline defenders were very solid and tough,their defenders were Godin,Miranda,Luis and Juanfran.

midielders:Breitner and Deschamps will pair each other really well,Breitner will act as offensive b2b and Deschamps as more defensive orietned.Both of them were known for their mentality and leadership too.

attackers:Ronaldinho+Walter+De Bryune,all of them are very creative players with great iq of the game.Ronaldino and De Bryune are probably well known for their imaginative passes and visions and don't worry about their passes when my team has Preben Elkjaer,a fast and rapid forward,who has an unmatched acclerations,speed and hunger in front of goals.He had experinced playing a lot of mathces with creative players like Laudrup too and in this game Dinho,Walter,Breitner and De Bryune will provide a lot of services for him.


My team:
G.Buffon-Italy
F.Cannavaro-Italy
K.Schnellinger-Italy
B.Vogts-Germany
D.Deschamps-Italy
P.Breitner-Germany
F.Walter-Germany
Ronaldinho-Spain
De Bryune-England
Elkjaer-Italy

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@General_Elegancia @Enigma_87 good luck and also, both please post leagues for your players!

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

What a team, Enigma!

 

[General_Elegancia]

I would say Enigma's team is an excellent team with no weakness.What a hell of Ronaldo,Gullit and Kante......

@Enigma_87 we deserve a finale duel match,lmao.

 

[Jim Beam]

Kante, Tardelli is a good midfield, but Vidal, Neeskens, Di Stefano is all over the place?

Tbf, that's only what bepo said, but Tardelli/Kante is not good midfield. Here you go..

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

but Tardelli/Kante is not good midfield

I really like the Gullit/Boniek support cast. Has a Fergie 90's team look about it.

 

[Enigma_87]

Kante, Tardelli is a good midfield, but Vidal, Neeskens, Di Stefano is all over the place?

Tbf, that's only what bepo said, but Tardelli/Kante is not good midfield. Here you go..

It really isn’t just both of them as a midfield pair as @GodShaveTheQueen mentioned and much more as a sum of parts. Boniek and Gullit add a lot to the table as a creative outlets wide cutting in.

 

[Enigma_87]

I really like the Gullit/Boniek support cast. Has a Fergie 90's team look about it.

Cheers mate. Yeah that’s one of the examples I had in mind whilst preparing the formation. Eto’o/ Fenomeno is one hell of a dynamic duo, whilst the midfield four would be a hell to come up against considering the work rate they put in and all of them being great two way players.
My idea was never to exert total control of the game and dominate the opposition 70-30, but being a really direct side that can turn defence into offence.

I really like the damage Eto’o and Ronaldo can cause to the opposition back line as Cannavaro had the most issues against forwards of Henry ilk and both of them can cause serious trouble on the front foot.

 

[Enigma_87]

I would say Enigma's team is an excellent team with no weakness.What a hell of Ronaldo,Gullit and Kante......

@Enigma_87 we deserve a finale duel match,lmao.

Cheers mate you have done pretty well yourself and I can’t really fault your team singling out a weak spots.

The only player I don’t really know is Fritz Walter and I haven’t really seen enough of him to rate him that well compared to some of the other greats that came up half a decade later.

 

[harms]

I'm not really enamoured with that 4-4-2 even though Gullit & Boniek make it better. Kanté & Tardelli as well as Ronaldo & Eto'o don't seem to be very complimentary partnerships to me. Functional, but hardly complimentary.

 

[Enigma_87]

@General_Elegancia @Enigma_87 good luck and also, both please post leagues for your players!

My team:
R. Hellstrom - Germany
Jordi Alba - Spain
Ciro Ferrara - Italy
Matthias Sammer - Germany
Mauro Tassotti - Italy
N’golo Kante - England
Marco Tardelli - Italy
Zbigniew Boniek - Italy
Rudy Gullit - Italy
Samuel Eto’o - Spain
Luis Ronaldo - Italy

 

[General_Elegancia]

My team:
G.Buffon-Italy
F.Cannavaro-Italy
K.Schnellinger-Italy
B.Vogts-Germany
D.Deschamps-Italy
P.Breitner-Germany
F.Walter-Germany
Ronaldinho-Spain
De Bryune-England
Elkjaer-Italy

 

[Jim Beam]

It really isn’t just both of them as a midfield pair as @GodShaveTheQueen mentioned and much more as a sum of parts. Boniek and Gullit add a lot to the table as a creative outlets wide cutting in.

You need a controller.

 

[P-Nut]

Whys Ferrara been striped of his number

Both great sides, I'd agree Walter is the standout that I know mostly nothing about.

Feel like the comparisons with Fergies 442 is off as well. His peak midfield of Scholes and Keane had 2 players capable of dictating play and controlling the game. Neither Tardelli or Kante would come close to that and whilst Gullit and Boniek would help, the same was obviously true of Beckham and Giggs.

I would usually have an issue with Alba as well, but up against De Bruyne I don't think it would be as much of an issue as it would a true inside forward or proper wide man.

 

[harms]

If anyone here haven’t seen Walter play a full game before.

 

[Enigma_87]

You need a controller.

Well for starters Boniek was the most creative outlet for the national team and was often deployed as a playmaker operating between the lines. Sammer is also someone that can easily control the game from deep and initiate moves from deep, between Gullit, Boniek and Fenomeno there is a lot of creativity up front.

 

[harms]

I wouldn’t call what Sammer did “controlling”, his intent was always to get forward as fast as possible. And Boniek at his creative best wasn’t playing as a winger in a 4-4-2, a role that doesn’t allow to roam freely which was when he was the most dangerous

 

[Jim Beam]

Well for starters Boniek was the most creative outlet for the national team and was often deployed as a playmaker operating between the lines. Sammer is also someone that can easily control the game from deep and initiate moves from deep, between Gullit, Boniek and Fenomeno there is a lot of creativity up front.

Well, for starters, that's really one shit explanation. Obviously am talking about using Kante to full extent and a midfield player who can control the game would be great alongside of him... Like being greater then sum of its parts which that midfield isn't.

 

[General_Elegancia]

You need a controller.

Kante: everyone knows about him(defensive oriented).
Tardelli:He was more of b2b in his playing days but some matches like Finale83 against Hamburg he played a lot in controlling role.
I think your team would be even better with someone who is a pass master and controller type of b2b(Tardelli didn't do that role so much in his life,he was a pure b2b๗ใ


So, your attacking games depend a lot on wide-players like Boniek and Gullit.Even you rely on your wide players,you still want your b2b player to make some great passes to them.
Your team can be even better,if you have Schuster,Falcao,Masopust,Scholes or Van Hanegem type pair with Kante in 4-4-2
@Enigma_87

 

[General_Elegancia]

In fact,Tardelli often played with more defensive b2b like Bonini and Orilali but @Jim Beam is right in this case and I agree with him that you need a bit of controller in this game since Juventus80s/Italy80s are different from Enigma's 4-4-2(he had Platini and Conti in Juve and Italy and in fact both Italy and Juventus he didn't control game much).

So you choose to play 4-4-2 Tardelli's role will be a lot different from his Juve's and Italy.Sammer was a specialist in back5,so in this game he plays in back4,I'm sure that he can't contribute offensive to help your midfielders as much as he always did in his career for sure.

Boniek at his best form,I would say his best performances was in WC1982(not Juventus that he played a bit less creative and more of a sprinter) and this is Boniek line up in WC1982,his Juventus role is above.To use Boniek in creator role,left winger on 4-4-2 doesn't suit him most for sure.

If anyone here haven’t seen Walter play a full game before.

I watched this match not for long time ago and after that I fell in love with him.
He is my lovely boy.

 

[General_Elegancia]

In this match against Hamburg,I could say that Tardelli played a lot of controlling role and he played really really well.Platini in this game was really well marked by Rolff.

 

[Enigma_87]

Well, for starters, that's really one shit explanation. Obviously am talking about using Kante to full extent and a midfield player who can control the game would be great alongside of him... Like being greater then sum of its parts which that midfield isn't.

I already explained that I’m not looking to control the game in the sense of having the biggest share of possession and pin the opposition back.

Besides even with what General wrote above you had the same players (Tardelli/Boniek/Gullit) as part of teams that didn’t have designated playmaker, or let’s say a dominant one.

Fergie’s United didn’t dominate games, especially in the sense you are applying when we came against elite sides. In the 90s and early 00s before he change it to more conservative one in his later years.

However as I said - this is not a replica of Fergies United but rather a fun side to watch that would use a lot of two way players (just like Giggs/Scholes/Keane/Becks) and would Catch the opposition on back foot on the counter. It was a very fun team that created a lot of special games like the ones against Bayern, Juve, Barca, Inter and the likes.

besides they’re are loads of games of a 4-4-2, where top teams didn’t have a dominant playmaker - Milan of the early 90s and late 80s had Rijkaard and Evani in the middle for lot of games when Ancelotti or Albertini didn’t start. You have Italy in the 80s when Tardelli was the controlling midfielder as per Generals example above. Then Arsenal invincibles when Bergamp was not starting every game and only Vieira was controlling midfielder with kinda the same creative outlet on the wing in Pires. Then you also had United often having Butt in the middle next to Keane.

so whilst Tardelli and Kante aren’t the most conventional choice, Boniek and Gullit add a lot to the mix, hence I’ve the arrows in on the formation graphic.
Besides as I mentioned couple of times - I’m not looking to control the game and I’m looking at counter attacking approach. Which means that our midfield would look to break up play and switch to attack when we regain the ball back.

All four midfielders and also striking duo are well familiar with that.

 

[Jim Beam]

I already explained that I’m not looking to control the game in the sense of having the biggest share of possession and pin the opposition back.

Besides even with what General wrote above you had the same players (Tardelli/Boniek/Gullit) as part of teams that didn’t have designated playmaker, or let’s say a dominant one.

Fergie’s United didn’t dominate games, especially in the sense you are applying when we came against elite sides. In the 90s and early 00s before he change it to more conservative one in his later years.

However as I said - this is not a replica of Fergies United but rather a fun side to watch that would use a lot of two way players (just like Giggs/Scholes/Keane/Becks) and would Catch the opposition on back foot on the counter. It was a very fun team that created a lot of special games like the ones against Bayern, Juve, Barca, Inter and the likes.

besides they’re are loads of games of a 4-4-2, where top teams didn’t have a dominant playmaker - Milan of the early 90s and late 80s had Rijkaard and Evani in the middle for lot of games when Ancelotti or Albertini didn’t start. You have Italy in the 80s when Tardelli was the controlling midfielder as per Generals example above. Then Arsenal invincibles when Bergamp was not starting every game and only Vieira was controlling midfielder with kinda the same creative outlet on the wing in Pires. Then you also had United often having Butt in the middle next to Keane.

so whilst Tardelli and Kante aren’t the most conventional choice, Boniek and Gullit add a lot to the mix, hence I’ve the arrows in on the formation graphic.
Besides as I mentioned couple of times - I’m not looking to control the game and I’m looking at counter attacking approach. Which means that our midfield would look to break up play and switch to attack when we regain the ball back.

All four midfielders and also striking duo are well familiar with that.

Around, around it goes...

 

[Gio]

No issues with the midfield partnership in isolation. But the midfield as a whole could benefit from some schemer who would look to take control and get on the ball in the middle third if not earlier. In 4-man midfields that can easily be picked up by a wide midfielder, for example a Beckham figure, or a Trevor Steven / Kevin Sheedy type that flanked a similarly styled Everton CM partnership. Knowing Gullit’s all-rounded genius I’m sure he could be the midfield conduit even if it doesn’t necessarily play to his absolute strengths.

That said the strategy of counter attack is sound, well aligned in terms of player selection, and it suits Ronaldo, Boniek and Eto’o to get the ball fizzed up early rather than faffing about too much in midfield.

 

[General_Elegancia]

besides they’re are loads of games of a 4-4-2, where top teams didn’t have a dominant playmaker - Milan of the early 90s and late 80s had Rijkaard and Evani in the middle for lot of games when Ancelotti or Albertini didn’t start. You have Italy in the 80s when Tardelli was the controlling midfielder as per Generals example above. Then Arsenal invincibles when Bergamp was not starting every game and only Vieira was controlling midfielder with kinda the same creative outlet on the wing in Pires. Then you also had United often having Butt in the middle next to Keane.

so whilst Tardelli and Kante aren’t the most conventional choice, Boniek and Gullit add a lot to the mix, hence I’ve the arrows in on the formation graphic.
Besides as I mentioned couple of times - I’m not looking to control the game and I’m looking at counter attacking approach. Which means that our midfield would look to break up play and switch to attack when we regain the ball back.

All four midfielders and also striking duo are well familiar with that.

Tardelli is a bit weird type of b2b,he always had 1 more defensive b2b paired with him,in Italy he had Oriali and Juventus he had Bonini.But in the real game he didn't seem to be attacking b2b like Gerrard,Viera,Breitner,Bremner,peak Matthaus and Neeskens ,he was more defensive than all of them.On the other hand he didn't seem to be type of Kante,Gattuso,Nestor Rossi,Jansen ,Rattin or Zito.He was more offensive.He seemed like a mix of offensive b2b and defensive b2b(there are a lot of players that can be classified in this type ex .Tigana,Roy Keane,Souness or Benetti).

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I think I prefer not having a playmaker in the middle. Rather have 2 proper box to box players in the centre and give Gullit and Boniek meaty roles. Both are as hybrid as it gets. Ask them to play wide forwards, they will. Ask them to create from the wings, they will. Ask them to move in centrally and play make, they will. Doesn't make sense then to add a Falcao or Suarez in the centre there. You will end up with none of them having the full freedom to express themselves without having to worry about being short of a defensive shield.

I know I can't stop singing lyrical about Gullit/Boniek, but that formation is super sexy as it works both as a 4-2-4 and 4-4-2 in different phases of the game which is where Kante and Tardelli are super handy. You can't convert it to a good 4-2-4 with Suarez or Falcao. It won't be a good 4-4-2 with a Makelele Or Desailly too if you wanted to go the DM route.

Kind of agree that Etoo and Ronaldo is not an ideal pair, but I think it's functional. Both are not limited players by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Jim Beam]

Fred - McTominey and those meaty, saucy roles for Gullit and Boniek.

 

[Himannv]

Love Enigma's team. I think if he had Gullit as DLP and a front 3 of Boniek - R9 - Eto'o there'd be more fans of it, but that's just me tweaking it based on some comments here.

 

[General_Elegancia]

@Enigma_87 Congratulations mate,I would say you deserve it to win against me hahaha.Let’s be honest I didn’t expect you to sent Ronaldo pair with Eto,I though you will sent Ronaldo as striker and Gullit would play at second striker(like Van Basten and Gullit at Milan80s-90).So,I‘m a bit misexpected.

Your team deserve to win since you have 3 monsters/cheat codes in your team.Kante,R9 and Gullit are f__ing cheat in any team ahaha.

 

[General_Elegancia]

I think I have made a lot of mistakes during picking players too(I don’t have enough time,so sometimes I pick late and the players that I expect have been chosen by others).

 

[Jim Beam]

I think I have made a lot of mistakes during picking players too(I don’t have enough time,so sometimes I pick late and the players that I expect have been chosen by others).

It was a damn fine team.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

It was a damn fine team.

Seconded

 

[Jim Beam]

Seconded

And harms is handsome.

 

[Pat_Mustard]

And harms is handsome.

Seconded.

 

[Enigma_87]

@Enigma_87 Congratulations mate,I would say you deserve it to win against me hahaha.Let’s be honest I didn’t expect you to sent Ronaldo pair with Eto,I though you will sent Ronaldo as striker and Gullit would play at second striker(like Van Basten and Gullit at Milan80s-90).So,I‘m a bit misexpected.

Your team deserve to win since you have 3 monsters/cheat codes in your team.Kante,R9 and Gullit are f__ing cheat in any team ahaha.

cheers, mate. You have done pretty well yourself. Can’t single out a glaring weakness in your team hence I didn’t really concentrate in poking in that direction.
I really liked the Elkjaer/ Goofy combo and your use of KdB.

on top of that Deschamps and Breitner is a sound base and that back four didn’t lack anything.

 

[Enigma_87]

Love Enigma's team. I think if he had Gullit as DLP and a front 3 of Boniek - R9 - Eto'o there'd be more fans of it, but that's just me tweaking it based on some comments here.

Cheers! I had the same team in mind with Sir Bobby playing alongside Fenomeno up front but he got injured so whilst they aren’t the Yorke / Cole level of complimentary - but both are very versatile and most importantly fit the style I wanted to employ.
Will see how reinforcements go, but considering I spent half of the draft outside the board didn’t have too much options anyway

 

[General_Elegancia]

And harms is handsome.

God Origi is the most handsome men in this planet.
seconded

 

[Jim Beam]

God Origi is the most handsome men in this planet.
seconded

I just love Shaqiri. A definition of a man.