MADN Draft SF: Himannv vs GSTQ

[Šjor Bepo]

vs

Team Himann

Tactics:

Attack:

• Maradona in a free role to go wherever he wants. I have him on the right here to indicate that both him and Baggio would attack wide areas more in this setup. I expect he'd often operate right from the center of the pitch if it suits him to do so.
• There were a few videos I watched of Baggio where he's great at drawing players to him when he's on the ball and then playing it off to someone else (hopefully Diego in my case) so that the person he's passing it off to has the space to impact the game.
• Riva comes into the side. He's great in the air, has lovely hold up play, and he's quite unselfish for a poacher. Makes loads of runs off the ball and plays others in so I expect both Baggio and Diego to thrive with him in front of them.

Midfield:

• I have Lothar playing more to the left here to ensure he and Diego don't operate in the same areas here as much, while his offensive and defensive workrate will count more in terms of making that flank more defensively stable, but also dangerous with Baggio playing ahead of him.
• Modric playing on the left as he did so often with Spurs when he was with him. He'd also be the one to drop deeper and help play it out from there. I have him close to Diego as I think he's the sort of playmaker who if very selfless and will work on setting things up to get the best of Diego.
• Makelele in the Makelele role shielding the back four. On the ball, he'd be playing those short passes that he usually does to start attacks or play in one of the others.

Defence:

• Maldini shifts over to LB for this game so he's at his best.
• Kohler and Vierchovod are my exceptional CBs for this game. Kohler the player who is better on the ball and he'll help with passing it out.
• Cafu comes in to add an extra threat on the right.
• Schmeichel at the back dominating and organizing my defence.

Wanted to share this harms video of Riva which is an excellent all touch compilation that highlights what he brings to the table:




Team GSTQ

Inspiration -

Tactics -

Pressing together as a team from the front

Pushing ahead together from the back in transition from defense to attack

Continuous positional switches and movement from the wingers (Iniesta and Finney) and second striker (Di Stefano)

Compact and coherent movement in midfield

Coordinated movement in defense

Zonal Marking - Counter the opponent with the ball in your space

 

[Šjor Bepo]

@Himannv @GodShaveTheQueen good luck!

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Good luck @Himannv

Have 2 concerns with Himannv's team -

1. The lack of a genuine passer in the defensive core (which includes Makelele and Schmeichel) who can deal with the high press and get out of tight situations is going to be a huge advantage for my team. Can see us winning a lot of balls high up the pitch leading to quick attacks in the opposition half.
2. Cafu - more on this in the next post.

Other than that, the front 5 is absolute class. Probably a more attacking fullback than Maldini would have been ideal.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Cafu @ Zaragoza - 1994/95

I think Spanish league Cafu is a bad pick for any draft let alone the semi final of an all time draft. His time at Zaragoza was riddled with injuries and he hardly played much football during the half season he was there. Even when he played, he wasn't fully fit (which can be a huge problem against a high energy pressing team). I haven't watched footage, but if stats are anything to by, he genuinely had a bad time there even though Zaragoza had a good season.

Appearance stats

Below image shows his appearances by game week and the minutes he played in each game

Total league games after he signed in Jan 1995 = 20
Games played = 16
Number of games started = 10
Number of games he lasted full 90 mins on the pitch = 7
Number of games he came in as a substitute = 6

Points Per Game (PPG)

Again, take this with a pinch of salt as I haven't seen the games, but when you compare it with the rest of his teammates and Zaragoza's own average that season, his stats look really bad - has the worst PPG out of all outfield players

Real Zaragoza season average PPG = 1.61 (finished joint 5th in La Liga)

P,S: If you are wondering why very few players have PPG around the team average of 1.61, this is not the full table, its sorted from worst to best, so the best players got cut at the end.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

have my concerns about scrappy's team but he made some great points with which i completely agree so for now im on his side, game just started so will give h-man a chance to respond

 

[harms]

I wonder how @Himannv would've set his team up if there were no injuries. Riva wasn't available in the previous round, Müller isn't available now, so the front three pick itself, but what if all of his forwards were fit? I can't help but feel that 2 fantasistas on one team isn't ideal and when Baggio was forced to choose between a trequartista and a supporting striker's role in a front three (instead of having a completely free role), he would be more likely to play as a trequartista. Thoughts? @Joga Bonito

Riva - Müller
Maradona​

Seems so tempting! Especially with Riva's tendency to drift outwide.

 

[harms]

Señor Cafu does look out of place — his multiple peaks were mostly spread between Brazil & Italy and he had infamously failed to adapt to European football in the first time round for whatever reason (probably injures first and foremost as Scrappy had noted above).

Not sure how much Himann's defenders would struggle under Scrappy's pressure — Di Stéfano and Law is a fearsome duo in that regard, Iniesta did it it masterfully even though it never looked like he had even broken a sweat and I can give Finney the benefit of a doubt considering his reputation, character & willingness to put his team's needs above his personal ones. Still, there are more than enough very competent (even though no outstanding ones) ball-playing players (Maldini, Kohler, Makélélé, budget version of Cafu), Schmeichel has his precise throwing & both Matthäus and Modrić can and will drop deeper to help out their teammates to bring the ball forward.

The lack of focus on Scrappy's wings can prove to be an issue — Himannv has a very central-oriented side and it's hard to imagine a stronger central core than that of GSTQ, while his fullbacks are asking to be exploited...

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Still, there are more than enough very competent (even though no outstanding ones) ball-playing players (Maldini, Kohler, Makélélé, budget version of Cafu), Schmeichel has his precise throwing

It's not just about being a decent passer. They have to be comfortable getting out of tight spaces and situations with the ball to escape the press. Obviously it's okay if not all of them can, but not having even one in the back 5-6 who is genuinely good on the ball is a problem.

I don't think Schmeichel's long throws have a say in the argument as he would be dealing with the press with the ball at his feet when against the high press and that he wasn't great at.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Not sure how much Himann's defenders would struggle under Scrappy's pressure — Di Stéfano and Law is a fearsome duo in that regard, Iniesta did it it masterfully even though it never looked like he had even broken a sweat and I can give Finney the benefit of a doubt considering his reputation, character & willingness to put his team's needs above his personal ones. Still, there are more than enough very competent (even though no outstanding ones) ball-playing players (Maldini, Kohler, Makélélé, budget version of Cafu), Schmeichel has his precise throwing & both Matthäus and Modrić can and will drop deeper to help out their teammates to bring the ball forward.

Have to disagree on this one, Schmeichel throwing abilities are irrelevant when we speak about pressing. I give you Kohler, no idea what to think about Makelele but Maldini was pretty average on the ball even without a pressing, i saw him struggle against a 1 man press(which was common at the time, individual burst rather then organized pressing) so against a well built pressing machine of scrappy he would have major issues when his side has the ball.
Modric and Matthaus help but against a great press you need every piece to be right so even if we assume midfield can bail them out(which i dont think they can) that fecks up the team on a whole different level because team loses connection so you end up having a well functioned unit in scrappys case against almost disjointed side where midfielders are asked to do too much so a team of Di Stefano, Kaiser and Iniesta would have a field day between lines.

 

[Joga Bonito]

I can't help but feel that 2 fantasistas on one team isn't ideal and when Baggio was forced to choose between a trequartista and a supporting striker's role in a front three (instead of having a completely free role), he would be more likely to play as a trequartista. Thoughts? @Joga Bonito

Agreed with that. Baggio would prefer the trequarista role and it's easier to envision him alongside direct forwards as opposed to a fellow creative influences. That being said, Baggio was really malleable tactically and in one game you'd see him dropping deep and functioning as a classic #10 and the next he'd be playing as a #9.5 etc. He also didn't play with too many creative trequarista-like players, but he seemed to gel quite nicely with the flair creative types like Möller or Savicevic and metronome like midfielders such as Dunga or P. Sousa.

Given Himanv's midfield, I'd say Baggio & Maradona should get along nicely with Baggio. Müller would have been brilliant but Riva should bring out the best in Maradona & Baggio as the physical and dynamic focal point.

 

[harms]

It's not just about being a decent passer. They have to be comfortable getting out of tight spaces and situations with the ball to escape the press. Obviously it's okay if not all of them can, but not having even one in the back 5-6 who is genuinely good on the ball is a problem.

I don't think Schmeichel's long throws have a say in the argument as he would be dealing with the press with the ball at his feet when against the high press and that he wasn't great at.

Have to disagree on this one, Schmeichel throwing abilities are irrelevant when we speak about pressing. I give you Kohler, no idea what to think about Makelele but Maldini was pretty average on the ball even without a pressing, i saw him struggle against a 1 man press(which was common at the time, individual burst rather then organized pressing) so against a well built pressing machine of scrappy he would have major issues when his side has the ball.
Modric and Matthaus help but against a great press you need every piece to be right so even if we assume midfield can bail them out(which i dont think they can) that fecks up the team on a whole different level because team loses connection so you end up having a well functioned unit in scrappys case against almost disjointed side where midfielders are asked to do too much so a team of Di Stefano, Kaiser and Iniesta would have a field day between lines.

We’ll, Schmeichel’s throwing can simply bypass the press in the first place. I doubt that Himann is going to go with a patient build up from the back with that personnel.

 

[Himannv]

It's 1 am here so I'll post more when I wake up tomorrow.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

We’ll, Schmeichel’s throwing can simply bypass the press in the first place. I doubt that Himann is going to go with a patient build up from the back with that personnel.

I am not sure how much long throws will be helpful without wide presence to be honest, but that is just a minor detail.

 

[Himannv]

Cafu @ Zaragoza - 1994/95

I think Spanish league Cafu is a bad pick for any draft let alone the semi final of an all time draft. His time at Zaragoza was riddled with injuries and he hardly played much football during the half season he was there. Even when he played, he wasn't fully fit (which can be a huge problem against a high energy pressing team). I haven't watched footage, but if stats are anything to by, he genuinely had a bad time there even though Zaragoza had a good season.

Appearance stats

Below image shows his appearances by game week and the minutes he played in each game

Total league games after he signed in Jan 1995 = 20
Games played = 16
Number of games started = 10
Number of games he lasted full 90 mins on the pitch = 7
Number of games he came in as a substitute = 6

Points Per Game (PPG)

Again, take this with a pinch of salt as I haven't seen the games, but when you compare it with the rest of his teammates and Zaragoza's own average that season, his stats look really bad - has the worst PPG out of all outfield players

Real Zaragoza season average PPG = 1.61 (finished joint 5th in La Liga)

P,S: If you are wondering why very few players have PPG around the team average of 1.61, this is not the full table, its sorted from worst to best, so the best players got cut at the end.

Agree with the point made on Cafu in Zaragoza. He was obviously hit by injuries quite a bit during his time there and that probably affects the stats, but let's not think of him as a bad player here - He had just won South American Footballer of the Year and was selected in the South American team of the year for five years running by this point in time. I feel even this version of Cafu stands up if I'm comparing him with Dietz or Zabeleta since he's probably the best RB of all time.

We've also got to consider what he's up against and it's Iniesta he's facing on that flank and he's not what you'd call a flank hugging winger who will constantly target the flank and try to whip in crosses. It's almost similar to Dietz and Zabeletta sometimes having to deal with Baggio and Maradona if they decide to drift wider.

 

[Himannv]

It's not just about being a decent passer. They have to be comfortable getting out of tight spaces and situations with the ball to escape the press. Obviously it's okay if not all of them can, but not having even one in the back 5-6 who is genuinely good on the ball is a problem.

I don't think you really need a Beckenbauer type to deal with a high press. One or two who can pass well will do. Cafu (even the budget version) is certainly good enough, as is Kohler.

I also think you underrate Makelele in this regard - he wasn't just a ball winner, he also started off attacks by making that first quick pass to a team mate once possession was regained. He isn't Pirlo, but he doesn't have to be with Modric and Matthaus operating in the vicinity. From what I've seen of him, he's not a bad passer of the ball at all so I don't know where the criticism is coming from exactly.


I find the comments on Maldini fairly extreme - you and Sjor are talking about him like he was some mug who'll lose the ball whenever he's put under pressure. He's not as good a passer as Baresi obviously, but he's no liability even when pressed. I was watching this video earlier, which is a 1990 WC compilation and there are numerous times he was pressed but he seemed more than capable of dealing with it. I mean, he's not likely to make a crossfield pass with pinpoint accuracy or something, but that's not what you need with a press anyway you need an ability to deal with the pressure and a quick pass to take it away or a quick change of direction with control and I don't think he's beyond that at all. Here's the video anyway:

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I feel even this version of Cafu stands up if I'm comparing him with Dietz or Zabeleta since he's probably the best RB of all time.

Ah, the shiny name syndrome. This version of Cafu is as good as a sheep in an all time draft.

 

[Himannv]

Ah, the shiny name syndrome. This version of Cafu is as good as a sheep in an all time draft.

Cafu was not some ordinary player in 1995 though - he had just won the World Cup and was named the best player in South America. His time in Zaragoza was very short obviously but he was still a great player at this time, even if you can consider him a budget version.

Even this budget version will stand up if you're intent on comparing him with Zabeletta. We're talking about the best RB of all time probably and that's reflected in how Redcafe has voted in the RB top 20 list (Zabeletta doesn't even make the list): https://www.redcafe.net/threads/redcafes-all-time-top-20-right-backs-results.449325/

Dietz similarly features nowhere on the list of top LBs voted by Redcafe (guess who's number 1): https://www.redcafe.net/threads/redcafes-all-time-top-20-left-backs-results.449681/

So yeah, Cafu and Maldini are both shiny names - gold standard in fact.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Cafu was not some ordinary player in 1995 though - he had just won the World Cup and was named the best player in South America. His time in Zaragoza was very short obviously but he was still a great player at this time, even if you can consider him a budget version.

Only his performances in La Liga count mate. The fact that he was absolutely brilliant before that doesn't matter. That is the whole point of league peaks rule.

If you think a player who didn't even play 1 quarter of a season is better than one of the best right backs of the premier league era, I don't have much to add to the debate on Cafu.

 

[Gio]

In judging Cafu I'm not really sure what the rules are? If players can be picked having only been in a league for less than 3 years, without a minimum game threshold, then we cannot really then expect a 3-year peak assessment? The way I'm looking at it for these one-season types, eg Cafu here or Ronaldo in Spain, is their average game during that season reflects their level during this game. Is that fair?

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

The way I'm looking at it for these one-season types, eg Cafu here or Ronaldo in Spain, is their average game during that season reflects their level during this game. Is that fair?

Yes.

 

[harms]

In judging Cafu I'm not really sure what the rules are? If players can be picked having only been in a league for less than 3 years, without a minimum game threshold, then we cannot really then expect a 3-year peak assessment? The way I'm looking at it for these one-season types, eg Cafu here or Ronaldo in Spain, is their average game during that season reflects their level during this game. Is that fair?

Pretty much this for me, but I’m also counting longevity as a factor (so a player with 1 season would be considered a lesser one compared to someone who had spend 3+ seasons there with the same level of average performances).

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I think enough time has been spent on discussing the negative aspects of the teams, so time to discuss some positives.

The whole reason for picking this setup and formation while even dropping Cristiano of all people was that the front 6 seemed to fit almost seamlessly into the roles assigned for the original team. I am not even that concerned about quality of upgrades, its the stylistic fits that is almost perfect IMO.

Gullit	Di Stefano	Its almost impossible to upgrade Gullit and the only player capable of doing that is Di Stefano IMO. Can match or better him in almost every aspect, be it work rate (better), goal scoring (better), creativity (better) and physicality (match or maybe a bit less)
Van Basten	Law	Van Basten maybe the better pure scorer but not by a lot, but when it comes to all round play and work rate, Law beats him. When it comes to this setup, I think Law is an upgrade on Van Basten. The pair of Law - Di Stefano is almost the best possible combination if you are trying to rebuild Sacchi's Milan
Rijkaard	Beckenbauer	Rijkaard was a two way player at Milan, so was Beckenbauer when he played in midfield. I am not sure whether to call it in upgrade, but its definitely not a downgrade.
Ancelotti	Suarez	Now Suarez is obviously the better player but what I love about him here is that he matches Ancelotti's role in the team to a tee. Offers decent work rate and plenty of creativity from deeper positions like Carlo was expected to do.
Donadoni	Finney	Again, Finney obviously the better player but what makes them a really good match is that both could operate on both sides of the pitch. Donadoni was often used on the left too by Sacchi.
Colombo	Iniesta	Both could play wide of course, but both expected to contribute to the midfield battle by tucking in. Don Andres obviously miles ahead in quality, but purely looking at it from a stylistic perspective, it looks like a great match.

 

[harms]

Gullit Di StefanoIts almost impossible to upgrade Gullit and the only player capable of doing that is Di Stefano IMO. Can match or better him in almost every aspect, be it work rate (better), goal scoring (better), creativity (better) and physicality (match or maybe a bit less)

As much as I love Di Stéfano, he can't match Gullit neither in physicality nor in athleticism, there's a clear gap there. That's not to say that he's not a brilliant and probably the best possible replacement/upgrade on the Dutchman.

P.S. didn't realise that you've dropped Cristiano, just how enormously stacked is your squad? And kudos for that by the way, that was a right decision.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

I don't think you really need a Beckenbauer type to deal with a high press. One or two who can pass well will do.

I think its unfair to assume most footballers or defenders can't pass. So no, am not being unfair to the likes of Makelele and Maldini.

Dealing with the press is not just about being able to string short passes but about doing it in tight situations with very little time and space afforded on the ball. Everyone can pass, but can they do it with 3 players running into them from 3 directions? That is where a good playing defender would be very helpful alongside a stopper like say Vierchowod or Kohler. But your team lacks that.

It would have been helpful to have a DLP who can get the team out of trouble, someone like say a Cerezo (you dont even need a Beckenbauer or Rijkaard) would have been great too. And of course having a keeper who was good with the feet to back pass to and be confident that it wont lead to a feck up would have been helpful too, but Schmeichel is not that player.

When you compound all that, I dont think its unfair to say the defense probably will have trouble dealing with the press. Am not sure if you would have started Blakenberg if he wasnt injured, but his presence would have been immense here IMO.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

he can't match Gullit neither in physicality nor in athleticism, there's a clear gap there.

Yea, less is correct. He still was very strong physically, but not a match to Gullit I guess.

P.S. didn't realise that you've dropped Cristiano, just how enormously stacked is your squad? And kudos for that by the way, that was a right decision.

Oh, I have dropped Cristiano and Zico. The squad looks really stupid at this point in @Himannv and my case

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Dietz similarly features nowhere on the list of top LBs voted by Redcafe (guess who's number 1): https://www.redcafe.net/threads/redcafes-all-time-top-20-left-backs-results.449681/

I think we can agree that there are some players we are not that knowledgeable about. Not to say he suddenly becomes a top 20 LB of all time in my books, but him not featuring in the votes even once kind of reflects that we can't know about every player in history. If we redo the LB list, I think at least a couple more people apart from me might have him in their lists. He genuinely does seem a better player than his draft appearances in here.

It's one of the reasons I upgraded my RB with Lahm but not my LB even when I had multiple opportunities. Dietz seemed like a good fit for most of my ideas with the squad and a good player to carry till the end.

While I do rate Zabaleta, I can't say the same about him, so yes, he is the weakest link in my team.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

I think enough time has been spent on discussing the negative aspects of the teams, so time to discuss some positives.

The whole reason for picking this setup and formation while even dropping Cristiano of all people was that the front 6 seemed to fit almost seamlessly into the roles assigned for the original team. I am not even that concerned about quality of upgrades, its the stylistic fits that is almost perfect IMO.

Gullit	Di Stefano	Its almost impossible to upgrade Gullit and the only player capable of doing that is Di Stefano IMO. Can match or better him in almost every aspect, be it work rate (better), goal scoring (better), creativity (better) and physicality (match or maybe a bit less)
Van Basten	Law	Van Basten maybe the better pure scorer but not by a lot, but when it comes to all round play and work rate, Law beats him. When it comes to this setup, I think Law is an upgrade on Van Basten. The pair of Law - Di Stefano is almost the best possible combination if you are trying to rebuild Sacchi's Milan
Rijkaard	Beckenbauer	Rijkaard was a two way player at Milan, so was Beckenbauer when he played in midfield. I am not sure whether to call it in upgrade, but its definitely not a downgrade.
Ancelotti	Suarez	Now Suarez is obviously the better player but what I love about him here is that he matches Ancelotti's role in the team to a tee. Offers decent work rate and plenty of creativity from deeper positions like Carlo was expected to do.
Donadoni	Finney	Again, Finney obviously the better player but what makes them a really good match is that both could operate on both sides of the pitch. Donadoni was often used on the left too by Sacchi.
Colombo	Iniesta	Both could play wide of course, but both expected to contribute to the midfield battle by tucking in. Don Andres obviously miles ahead in quality, but purely looking at it from a stylistic perspective, it looks like a great match.

i dont see it, Colombo i dont know(seriously doubt he is anything like Iniesta considering the era) and the only similar players in the team are Donadoni and Finney. Saying that, your teams functions well as it is so there really is no need for comparison because some of this players are nothing alike.

 

[Gio]

i dont see it, Colombo i dont know(seriously doubt he is anything like Iniesta considering the era) and the only similar players in the team are Donadoni and Finney. Saying that, your teams functions well as it is so there really is no need for comparison because some of this players are nothing alike.

Yeah, have to agree with this. I struggle with Di Stefano's mega-ego and individual tactical freedom in such a set-up. And in terms of ethos there is generally much more joga bonito in this team and much less self sacrifice and off-the-ball running compared to Sacchi drones. We all love a blueprint, but not sure Scrappy's team needs one as it stands tall without any need for a comparison.

It's H-man's team that smacks of a famous manager as a countain-and-counter Mourinho side.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Cheers @Himannv , good game.

@Šjor Bepo , does pnut/mike's vote count? If no, then Himannv wins.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

All votes count except of the playing managers

 

[General_Elegancia]

Yea, less is correct. He still was very strong physically, but not a match to Gullit I guess.



Oh, I have dropped Cristiano and Zico. The squad looks really stupid at this point in @Himannv and my case

Peak Alfredo can match peak Gullit stamina for sure but the others like strength,speed or jumping,he couldn’t.

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Peak Alfredo can match peak Gullit stamina for sure but the others like strength,speed or jumping,he couldn’t.

Yea, I got overflown there. The replica idea anyways hasn't sold that well though even if the team has, so that's a bummer.

 

[General_Elegancia]

I think its unfair to assume most footballers or defenders can't pass. So no, am not being unfair to the likes of Makelele and Maldini.

Dealing with the press is not just about being able to string short passes but about doing it in tight situations with very little time and space afforded on the ball. Everyone can pass, but can they do it with 3 players running into them from 3 directions? That is where a good playing defender would be very helpful alongside a stopper like say Vierchowod or Kohler. But your team lacks that.

It would have been helpful to have a DLP who can get the team out of trouble, someone like say a Cerezo (you dont even need a Beckenbauer or Rijkaard) would have been great too. And of course having a keeper who was good with the feet to back pass to and be confident that it wont lead to a feck up would have been helpful too, but Schmeichel is not that player.

When you compound all that, I dont think its unfair to say the defense probably will have trouble dealing with the press. Am not sure if you would have started Blakenberg if he wasnt injured, but his presence would have been immense here IMO.

Maldini was a hell of skillful players at the left-back position.He wasn’t an offensive machine like mr.Cabrini but he wasn’t slouch at that for sure,in first half of his career,I would say he even played at offensive lb role(Maoro was more defensive).
He played at left center back in back3 during 1997-2001 and he was probably main ball-carrier of that Milan.In this period,I would say he played a bit like Rudiger,a stopper with some attacking skills.

Vierchowod for me was really underrated in ball playing skills.He wasn’t as great as great sweepers for sure but he had. Some beautiful long passes to strikers especially in Sampdoria days.He was better than Kohler in that regard

 

[GodShaveTheQueen]

Vierchowod for me was really underrated in ball playing skills.He wasn’t as great as great sweepers for sure but he had. Some beautiful long passes to strikers especially in Sampdoria days.He was better than Kohler in that regard

Vierchowod did have a good record against Sacchi's Milan to be fair as I checked it out before the game. That Sacchi period did collide with Sampdoria's golden period in late 80's.

 

[General_Elegancia]

Agreed with that. Baggio would prefer the trequarista role and it's easier to envision him alongside direct forwards as opposed to a fellow creative influences. That being said, Baggio was really malleable tactically and in one game you'd see him dropping deep and functioning as a classic #10 and the next he'd be playing as a #9.5 etc. He also didn't play with too many creative trequarista-like players, but he seemed to gel quite nicely with the flair creative types like Möller or Savicevic and metronome like midfielders such as Dunga or P. Sousa.

Given Himanv's midfield, I'd say Baggio & Maradona should get along nicely with Baggio. Müller would have been brilliant but Riva should bring out the best in Maradona & Baggio as the physical and dynamic focal point.

If Maradona and Baggio play together in real life, Baggio will probably be as pure secondary striker with an alpha scoring mindset like his days in Fioretina(Fio’s Baggio focused more on scoring oppurtunities).Diego will run the show for sure.Baguio will receive a lot of great passes from Baggio and he can create some plays to Riva too.A but similar to Zidane and Del Piero(with a lot of differences because of Maradona style’s playing).It doesn’t easy to suitable for have 2trequaristas in one team most for sure

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Maldini was a hell of skillful players at the left-back position.He wasn’t an offensive machine like mr.Cabrini but he wasn’t slouch at that for sure,in first half of his career,I would say he even played at offensive lb role(Maoro was more defensive).
He played at left center back in back3 during 1997-2001 and he was probably main ball-carrier of that Milan.In this period,I would say he played a bit like Rudiger,a stopper with some attacking skills.

Vierchowod for me was really underrated in ball playing skills.He wasn’t as great as great sweepers for sure but he had. Some beautiful long passes to strikers especially in Sampdoria days.He was better than Kohler in that regard

if Maldini was a hell of a skillful player i have no idea how would you call someone like Marcelo(or if you want to stay in the same era, Cafu) then? God?
Someone like Evra is superior to Maldini looking just at ability on the ball, Paolo wasnt a donkey by any means but he was decent at best.

 

[Himannv]

You're all cnuts!

 

[General_Elegancia]

if Maldini was a hell of a skillful player i have no idea how would you call someone like Marcelo(or if you want to stay in the same era, Cafu) then? God?
Someone like Evra is superior to Maldini looking just at ability on the ball, Paolo wasnt a donkey by any means but he was decent at best.

Marcelo is superior to Maldini on the ball,yes you’re absolutely right.But Maldini was no joke about ball controlling,I mean he wasn’t fancy dribbler and controller,he was more about first touches and great controlling.

His short/long passing,as much as I have watched him,I would say he was superior to Baresi and some great modern footballers for sure but like I have said before he wasn’t a bum on passing(not excellent but not terrible).He was even a main ball-playing defender for Milan during2000s,Nesta was more of a stopper when paired with Maldini and he was inferior to Maldini in passing ranges too.

 

[Šjor Bepo]

Marcelo is superior to Maldini on the ball,yes you’re absolutely right.But Maldini was no joke about ball controlling,I mean he wasn’t fancy dribbler and controller,he was more about first touches and great controlling.

His short/long passing,as much as I have watched him,I would say he was superior to Baresi and some great modern footballers for sure but like I have said before he wasn’t a bum on passing(not excellent but not terrible).He was even a main ball-playing defender for Milan during2000s,Nesta was more of a stopper when paired with Maldini and he was inferior to Maldini in passing ranges too.

As scrappy said previously, being able to pass the ball isnt enough.....he was decent and thats it, could play himself out of trouble occasionally but a lot of times he would lump it up forward(and we talking mostly about individual burst of press rather then a organized team one). Considering whats around him(Cafu sheep, Vierchowod(meh), Schmeichel terrible, Makelele(no idea tbh)) its a problem against a side that on paper has a great pressing potential.
He was and is probably the best natural defender ever, probably even better then Baresi when it comes to pure defending but lets not go overboard and turn him into Lahm when it comes to ability on the ball and under pressure.

 

[General_Elegancia]

As scrappy said previously, being able to pass the ball isnt enough.....he was decent and thats it, could play himself out of trouble occasionally but a lot of times he would lump it up forward(and we talking mostly about individual burst of press rather then a organized team one). Considering whats around him(Cafu sheep, Vierchowod(meh), Schmeichel terrible, Makelele(no idea tbh)) its a problem against a side that on paper has a great pressing potential.
He was and is probably the best natural defender ever, probably even better then Baresi when it comes to pure defending but lets not go overboard and turn him into Lahm when it comes to ability on the ball and under pressure.

If we talk about invidual,you're right.No one(include Cafu,Maldini and Peter)is excellent in this regard.