Managers Draft - R1: Edgar Allan Pillow vs Jayvin

With players at 'peaks under the said manager', who will win?


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Balu

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vs


................. Team @Edgar Allan Pillow (Fabio Capello) ............................................................. Team @Jayvin (Carlo Ancelotti) ..........................................

Team Edgar Allan Pillow (Manager: Fabio Capello)

Defence:

Milan's defence under Capello (and Sacchi previously) is considered as one of the greatest defensive line-up's of all time. 3 of the fabled back 4 of Milan, Maldini, Costacurta and Panucci reprise their familiar legendary roles here with the only difference is that the play making skills of Baresi has been replaced with the defensive solidity of Desailly due to the presence of 2 of the worlds best creative (defensive) midfielders shielding them. This is a defence comprised of players who individually are GOAT's and have the history of being successful together.

Central Defensive Midfield (and so much more...)

El Principe, Redondo and the Metronomo, Albertini needs no introduction to anyone familiar with football. Though they are often labelled as Defensive Midfielder's, they are so much more than that tag might infer.
Two more complete midfielders you'll rarely see. Blessed with good mentality, excellent vision, tactical knowledge, ball control and a brilliant passing range, they are especially adept in reading the opposition play and making crucial interceptions, be it helping out in defence or in contributing to attack, both remained omnipresent. They compliment each other perfectly and the abundance of creativity between them will ensure a solid shield disrupting Jayvin's attack and start deadly counters.

Central Attacking Midfield:

Savićević, Nedved and Donadoni make up for a highly creative and flexible attacking midfield. All 3 players are capable of playing anywhere on the attacking midfield line and the constant switching between them will be a menace for Jayvin's defence constantly shirting the focus of attack well capable of overloading any potential opportunity to a goal certainty. Savićević attacking brilliance is complimented perfectly by the midfield work-rate of Nedved and Donadoni. It is quite impossible to forget Savićević's performance against Cryuff's Barcelona and he has a similar freedom to dominate here.

Attack:

Suker may not have had a long career like most others in the draft, but at his peak, he was one of the best in the world. Apart from his La Liga & Supercopa winning season (1996-97) under Capello, his time under Capello is smack down in the middle of his career peak (1996-98) as attested by UEFA Euro Team of the Tournament: 1996, ESM Team of the Year: 1996–97, 1998 FIFA World Cup Golden Shoe, 1998 FIFA World Cup Silver Ball, FIFA World Cup All-Star Team: 1998, Ballon d'Or (Runner-up): 1998, FIFA World Player of the Year (Bronze Award): 1998.

Advantages that will earn me the victory:

+ One of the best defensive line-up's in the draft. The back 4 players are all top of class and have played with each other successful making one of the tightest defensive units in their prime.

+ No offence to Alonso or Modric, but they are nowhere near the class of Redondo or Albertini when it comes to creativity or controlling the game from the middle. One of his finest moments for Redondo came in the Champions League triumph of 1998. Real Madrid came across Juventus, a team with a frighteningly gifted midfield of Deschamps-Davids-Zidane (Inzaghi and Del Piero leading the line) Despite the plethora of talent on display Fernando Redondo was named man of the match dominated the middle of the park with his uncanny knack of breaking opposition play. You can see the similarity the Alonso-Davids-Kaka here which will end with a similar result, imo. The additions of Modric vs Albertini also favours my team.

+ Two fold superiority in wide areas. Though Davids is a capable wide player, he is played in a more central role here. So Savićević and Donadoni will have a marked advantage in the flanks. Add the flexibility of Nedved to overload either of the flank, Alonso will be overwhelmed. Again due to the same reason mentioned, Jayvin will depend on fullback's to compliment on width and that is a two edged sword. Particularly in Savićević's case (vs Ashley Cole) it is a recipe for disaster for my opponents.

Team Jayvin (Manager: Carlo Ancelotti)

THE TEAM:

A young Buffon in goals in his 1996-1998 form that convinced Juventus to shatter the world record fee for a goalkeeper, during this time he was rated as one of the top 10 players in Serie A in consecutive seasons by Gazzetta dello Sport. Protecting him is a well-balanced partnership of Thiago Silva (circa 2013) – A year in which he was named in the European Team of the Season and hailed by his own manager as the best defender in the world - and Fabio Cannavaro; one of the finest defenders in Serie A during his spell at Parma.

At fullback, Ashley Cole and Antonio Benarrivo were both consistent and solid performers under Ancelotti, with the former voted Chelsea’s Player of the Year in 2010/11 and named in the Premier League team of the season, while Benarrivo was regarded as one of the best fullbacks in Italy during the 90’s. Their pace and stamina will allow them to get up and down the flanks and the protection from midfield means my team won't be easily punished if they are caught out of position.

Xabi Alonso will sit deep and orchestrate the play similarly to Pirlo under Ancelotti at Milan, while also being more adept defensively than the Italian. He is flanked by Edgar Davids in his imperious 1998-2000 Juventus form where he was rated as a top 5 player in Serie A by Gazzetta dello Sport and Luka Modric; one of the best midfielders in Europe last season as Ancelotti's Madrid won the Champions League.

In attack there is a dynamic partnership of Andriy Shevchenko - European Footballer of the Year in 2004 - and Didier Drogba - who enjoyed his most prolific season for Chelsea under Ancelotti - scoring 37 goals in 2009/10 en route to a League and Cup double. Supporting them will be Kaka - World Player of the Year under Ancelotti - who will play as a withdrawn forward in a free role, where he can drift between the lines and help to overload EAP’s central defenders.

TACTICS:

Lining up in Ancelotti's 4-3-1-2 (or diamond 4-4-2) which was used to great effect for Milan in the early 2000's, my team packs the central areas with creativity, explosiveness and strength in a bid to dominate the midfield and control the game; although they will be equally adept on the counter thanks to the pace and stamina of the fullbacks, Davids' ability to contribute to both phases of play and the devastating directness and pace up front of Kaka, Shevchenko and Drogba.

Alonso will be the primary playmaker, sitting deep in the Pirlo role where he can use his passing range to greatest effect, as well as being adept defensively; winning tackles and intercepting passes thanks to his impeccable positioning. The wily Luka Modric's creativity and movement from deep gives my team another option going forward, with his well-timed forward runs particularly useful in dragging players out of position.
Davids provides the energy in midfield, with his tireless running; explosiveness going forward and ability to break up the opposition play vital in giving Alonso and Modric a platform to control the game.

Up front Shevchenko can look to move wide and drop off in a bid to stretch EAP's defenders, dragging them out of position and creating space for Drogba and the onrushing Kaka, or cut in from the left himself and run at Panucci/Costacurta, causing havoc with his pace, dribbling and powerful shot.

Overall, the wide range of creative and attacking options will make my team difficult to defend against: Alonso dictating from deep supported by Modric, Davids' driving runs from midfield and Kaka drifting between the lines where he is most dangerous.
Further forward, there are yet more options, with Shevchenko's work rate, pace and ability to run the channels blended with Drogba's aerial threat and physical presence in the box.
 
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Balu

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@Jayvin and @Edgar Allan Pillow
Had to start it now, because I have to leave for a few hours soon and EAP said, it doesn't matter when to start it, hope that's okay. Let me know if there's a problem in there somewhere. Jayvin, if you want me to get rid of the spoiler tags in your write-up, so that it's instantly visible, let me know. It looks a bit short that way in comparison to EAP's, but I didn't want to change it on my own.

Good luck.
 

antohan

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That's a pretty decent Ancelotti homage team, but a better Capello one.
 

Jayvin

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In 1998 Madrid had Karembeu and Seedorf supporting Redondo, here it is just Albertini. Redondo wasn't a particularly hard worker either - at least not when things weren't going his way - and neither were very quick, which could be a problem when dealing with Kaka. Desailly and Costacurta have enough to worry about with Drogba and Shevchenko, so I could see Kaka causing some problems here.
 

Jayvin

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@Jayvin and @Edgar Allan Pillow
Had to start it now, because I have to leave for a few hours soon and EAP said, it doesn't matter when to start it, hope that's okay. Let me know if there's a problem in there somewhere. Jayvin, if you want me to get rid of the spoiler tags in your write-up, so that it's instantly visible, let me know. It looks a bit short that way in comparison to EAP's, but I didn't want to change it on my own.
I'm fine with starting now, thanks Balu. And yeah, might as well get rid of the spoiler tags
 

Gio

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In 1998 Madrid had Karembeu and Seedorf supporting Redondo, here it is just Albertini. Redondo wasn't a particularly hard worker either - at least not when things weren't going his way - and neither were very quick, which could be a problem when dealing with Kaka. Desailly and Costacurta have enough to worry about with Drogba and Shevchenko, so I could see Kaka causing some problems here.
That's a fair point when considering Redondo and I can see you having control of the centre of the park as a result. EAP does have Nedved and Donadoni though who will offer a lot of graft relative to their attacking roles.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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That's a fair point when considering Redondo and I can see you having control of the centre of the park as a result. EAP does have Nedved and Donadoni though who will offer a lot of graft relative to their attacking roles.
It would not. With my Attacking Midfield, Alonso and Davids would be operating deeper and only Modric trying to work out in the attacking 3rd occasionally. Mostly it'll be Kaka and Redondo and Albertini together will be able to handle him.

On the other hand, when my midfielders drift out wide, esp Donadoni with Panucci supporting, he has not much options there. With just the fullback to beat and Nedved supporting, I'll have much more joy.
 

Jayvin

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Mostly it'll be Kaka and Redondo and Albertini together will be able to handle him.
Kaka was rapid, if you want to limit his threat Redondo and Albertini will have to sit very deep and that will give space to my midfielders. As Gio said though, I do think the graft of your attacking players helps in that regard and overall it's tough to pick holes in your side. The movement of Kaka and Shevchenko could bring me some joy and perhaps a well timed forward run from Davids/Modric could temporarily overload your defence, but there's not really a readily apparent weakness to exploit, whereas on my side Benarrivo looks a bit exposed against Savicevic.

Voted for Edgar, maybe pick a more interesting manager next time Jayvin you peanut. :p
 

Jayvin

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It's Christmas time!



Ambrosini on for Drogba to give Benarrivo some protection and allow Modric/Davids a bit more freedom.
 

antohan

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That's probably how you should have started. I do like how Ancelotti-like it all looks, but Capello managed a better side, and it shows.
 

Chesterlestreet

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That's probably how you should have started. I do like how Ancelotti-like it all looks, but Capello managed a better side, and it shows.
'Fraid so.

I feel sorry for Jayvin here - as he has done nothing very wrong in setting up his side. But neither has Edgar - and then it comes down to a question of sheer quality.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
I think this is pretty close actually. I don't agree with EAP that Albertini is a class above Alonso, and I say that as a fan of both players. Maybe I'm leaning too much towards overrating Alonso as a result of his recent Bayern form, but I'd marginally prefer Alonso. I'm not a huge fan of Nedved playing through the centre either, and I could see Costacurta struggling with Shevchenko's pace and Desailly with Drogba's power. Desailly was awesome, but he could struggle with the rare attcker that could overpower him - Shearer scored once against Chelsea after shrugging Desailly aside quite easily.
 

Gio

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Edgar Allan Pillow said:
+ No offence to Alonso or Modric, but they are nowhere near the class of Redondo or Albertini when it comes to creativity or controlling the game from the middle.
Alonso is better than Albertini.
 

Theon

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I don't think Albertini and Redondo are a particularly complimentary partnership at all.
 

RoadTrip

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I like both teams here, but I've been swayed to Jayvin.

I'm glad there is a draft format to honour Kaka who largely gets ignored. His game under Ancelotti was excellent.

Also, I really do dislike Nedved in the centre.

Close one though I must admit.
 

Theon

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It would not. With my Attacking Midfield, Alonso and Davids would be operating deeper and only Modric trying to work out in the attacking 3rd occasionally. Mostly it'll be Kaka and Redondo and Albertini together will be able to handle him.
Disagree that Davids and Alonso won't contribute going forward, trying to paint it as Kaka attacking on his lonesome isn't accurate IMO.

Biggest thing I disagree with is that Redondo and Albertini would 'handle' Kaka though. I think that misrepresents the players.

Kaka was absolutely lightening quick in his prime and if there is one thing Redondo lacked it was pace. And if there was one thing Albertini lacked it was pace. Neither are pure defensive players either.

When Kaka gets on the ball and breaks forward I can see him having all sorts of success driving through that midfield - I think you're underrating him.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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mmm, finally things are heating up.

- In the main thread, I did post that Alonso is one of my favourite players, but he is no Pirlo here. If you are looking at the successful Seedorf-Pirlo-Gattuso vs the Davids-Alonso-Ambrosini here, it is definitely a step down in class.
- My point was that Benarrivo would require Ambrosini there to help with Savicevic. Similarly I rate Donadoni above Ashley Cole (Panucci will also back him up here), leading to an increased defensive workload for his midfielders. Not saying it is a weakness, but just pointing out the need to constantly support the fullbacks here. In his new formation, it would lead to Modric dropping deeper into midfield to maintain a bridge from his midfield to offence on regular basis.
- Neither Redondo nor Albertini are tasked with man marking Kaka here. They would play to their strengths in positional defence and breaking Jay's attacks here. Desailly replacing Baresi is not that huge of a step down to my defence which at their peak let in 15 goals entire season on their victory to Serie A. You are also forgetting the incomparable Maldini here. With no one in his flank to trouble him, he would definitely be comfortable to tuck in (if required) and set up a more compact defence unit.
 

antohan

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I think this is pretty close actually. I don't agree with EAP that Albertini is a class above Alonso, and I say that as a fan of both players. Maybe I'm leaning too much towards overrating Alonso as a result of his recent Bayern form, but I'd marginally prefer Alonso. I'm not a huge fan of Nedved playing through the centre either, and I could see Costacurta struggling with Shevchenko's pace and Desailly with Drogba's power. Desailly was awesome, but he could struggle with the rare attcker that could overpower him - Shearer scored once against Chelsea after shrugging Desailly aside quite easily.
But isn't the logic of playing Nedved centrally to choke Alonso? I think out of the three he is best suited to that role. Going forward, all three can interchange/swap around at will.
 

Pat_Mustard

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A never-nude? I thought he just liked cut-offs.
But isn't the logic of playing Nedved centrally to choke Alonso? I think out of the three he is best suited to that role. Going forward, all three can interchange/swap around at will.
Fair point but EAP didn't really specify that - his main point regarding Nedved and Alonso was that Nedved could drag him out of position by overloading a wing.
 

crappycraperson

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People are underrating some of the players on Jayvin's team. Someone like Drogba had his absolute peak under Ancelotti at Chelsea, same for Sheva at Milan, Modric now at Real, Kaka at Milan, Alonso (to some extent) at Real, Silva at PSG. Then others like Cole, Davids were also close to their best under him
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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People are underrating some of the players on Jayvin's team. Someone like Drogba had his absolute peak under Ancelotti at Chelsea, same for Sheva at Milan, Modric now at Real, Kaka at Milan, Alonso (to some extent) at Real, Silva at PSG. Then others like Cole, Davids were also close to their best under him
Drogba is not playing. His formation has changed subsequently.

Shouldn't make much of a difference, because my players were at their peaks too.

- That defence won Serie A letting in 15 goals only all season
- Redondo was player of the season absolutely dominating a Zidane-Deschamps-Davids midfield in Champions league match in a MotM performance.
- Suker was in the peak form, scored the best amount of goals in his career and would carry on to win the WC Golden Boot.
- Savicevic was let free and had the performance that sunk Cryuff's Barcelona.
- Smack in middle of Nedved's Balon d'Or winning form.

Considering defence and midfield, I would definitely put my players over his.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Fair point but EAP didn't really specify that - his main point regarding Nedved and Alonso was that Nedved could drag him out of position by overloading a wing.
I touched upon the flexibity and Savicevic's attack balanced by Nedved/Donadoni's workrate in the middle in the OP. Fact is before he changed his formation, Savicevic against Benarrivo was a much straighter possibility to goal, so I was on about my wingers vs his fullback. It is only after he brought in Ambrosini that Alonso took priority. Still the fact remains. With Nedved's workrate, the impact of Alonso would be greatly mitigated.
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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Nedved won it in 2003 .. didn't he? Capello took over after that
Capello managed Nedved between 2004-06 in Juventus. This was his form between 2003-06 putting Capello's reign in the middle of this peak.

Scudetto winner: 2004–05, 2005–06 (stripped due to Calciopoli)
- UEFA Club Best Midfielder of ther Year: 2002–03
- Serie A Footballer of the Year: 2003
- Golden Ball (Czech Republic): 2004
- Czech Footballer of the Year: 2004
- World Soccer Awards Player of the Year: 2003
- Ballon d'Or: 2003
- UEFA Team of the Year: 2003, 2004, 2005
- UEFA European Championship Team of the Tournament: 2004
- Golden Foot: 2004
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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I don't even know why I'm losing votes here.

Modric-Kaka-Sheva seem to be occupying all of my back 4 + Redondo + Albertini and I'm still vulnerable? And this is not counting for the fact that my attacking midfield is far superior to his!
 

crappycraperson

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Drogba is not playing. His formation has changed subsequently.

Shouldn't make much of a difference, because my players were at their peaks too.

- That defence won Serie A letting in 15 goals only all season
- Redondo was player of the season absolutely dominating a Zidane-Deschamps-Davids midfield in Champions league match in a MotM performance.
- Suker was in the peak form, scored the best amount of goals in his career and would carry on to win the WC Golden Boot.
- Savicevic was let free and had the performance that sunk Cryuff's Barcelona.
- Smack in middle of Nedved's Balon d'Or winning form.

Considering defence and midfield, I would definitely put my players over his.
Uuurgh.. don't like the changed formation at all. Sorry Jayvin.. gotta switch the vote here :(
 

Jayvin

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Uuurgh.. don't like the changed formation at all. Sorry Jayvin.. gotta switch the vote here :(
I was losing 9-0 when I changed it, figured the game was dead and buried so would try something different. With Sheva/Drogba/Kaka up front I did think I could cause some problems for EAPs defence, but the problem is Modric isn't going to provide much defensive support on the right so I was asking a lot of Benarrivo. To be fair I think that is a bigger weakness than Redondo/Albertini's lack of pace.

Probably should have started with this formation:



I just wanted that extra bit of creativity in the middle that Modric provides because it seems like deep lying playmakers get written off an awful lot in these drafts if there is a hard working attacking midfielder shadowing them.

Anyway, glad there was a bit more discussion and EAP actually had to defend his team to some extent! Was feeling bad I'd made it so boring for him
 

Edgar Allan Pillow

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I was losing 9-0 when I changed it, figured the game was dead and buried so would try something different.
Yeah, that was very uncharacteristic. The game would have obviously far tighter than that. I actually wanted to avoid 2 striker formations and when the match was made I knew it would be hard, and to top it you had Alonso, the only player I bigged up in the main thread :lol:

Move over Redondo. Alonso is the new Caf's darling DM/DLP.


Great game mate!
 

Jayvin

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To be honest there were only a couple of teams I thought I had a chance against, when the draw was made I knew I was toast. Good game though mate, you drafted very well and as I said earlier it was tough to pick holes in your side.

Think I will take a break from drafts for a while, my heart wasn't really in this. Will give some new blood a chance next time :)
 

antohan

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I was losing 9-0 when I changed it, figured the game was dead and buried so would try something different. With Sheva/Drogba/Kaka up front I did think I could cause some problems for EAPs defence, but the problem is Modric isn't going to provide much defensive support on the right so I was asking a lot of Benarrivo. To be fair I think that is a bigger weakness than Redondo/Albertini's lack of pace.

Probably should have started with this formation:



I just wanted that extra bit of creativity in the middle that Modric provides because it seems like deep lying playmakers get written off an awful lot in these drafts if there is a hard working attacking midfielder shadowing them.

Anyway, glad there was a bit more discussion and EAP actually had to defend his team to some extent! Was feeling bad I'd made it so boring for him
That is indeed your best formation. Your first one was really exposed to Savicevic and Nedved operating on the left, so Ambrosini was absolutely necessary, and Drogba upfront adds more than Modric behind a single striker when Kaká is already there.
 

Gio

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To be honest there were only a couple of teams I thought I had a chance against, when the draw was made I knew I was toast. Good game though mate, you drafted very well and as I said earlier it was tough to pick holes in your side.

Think I will take a break from drafts for a while, my heart wasn't really in this. Will give some new blood a chance next time :)
It was difficult once there were two Ancelottis. I'm not sure he quite had the pool to have two comprehensively strong teams from the start. One Ancelotti could become very tasty though.
 

Jayvin

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It was difficult once there were two Ancelottis. I'm not sure he quite had the pool to have two comprehensively strong teams from the start. One Ancelotti could become very tasty though.
Yep, if there wasn't a peak form rule though then Ancelotti would be nigh unbeatable IMO. He's managed some tremendous players (albeit ones who were past their peak): Ronaldinho, Ronaldo, Rivaldo, Redondo, Rui Costa, Stam...
 

Jayvin

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Also, aside from the obvious dearth of quality wide players, Ancelotti really hasn't managed that many quality fullbacks. The likes of Oddo, Jankulovski and Kaladze did fine jobs in his sides, but they are hardly vote winners. Should've snapped up Cafu or Thuram right away in hindsight.

edit: I may have posted this in the main thread, but wanna throw it in here as well; from a fantastic Guardian article on Redondo:

"...it must be said that humiliating United's Henning Berg is a realistic proposition. It has been done before, usually by Berg himself. But Redondo defined the art."

I've seen that moment countless times, and usually I'm annoyed watching it, but reading that I can't help but laugh.

 
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