Manchester United in the Europa League

UnofficialDevil

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I'm not anti Scottish, I just wanted Moyes out.
When we first played in Europa League most were embarrassed. It seemed wrong, weird strange out of place. We were Manchester United a club tied into the history of the Champions League, always there always one of the favourites.

Even winning the Europa seemed strange, like Real madrid winning it would.
I mean can you imagine Barcelona or Bayern in the Europa league?

In a recent Marca survey 70% of the fans said they would rather finish fourth than be seen playing in the Europa league.

For us, it now seems like the new normal. Like we've turned into a Europa league club.

I remember United vs Real Madrid's galacticos being the match every football fan wanted to see, now we're worried about drawing Real Sociedad

This isn't a moan thread, we just don't belong in the Europa League and I don't want anybody getting used to it, we belong in the Champions League and nowhere else.
Getting knocked out of the first group stages should also be seen as a failure
 
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AshRK

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Based on last 7 years we definitely belong here. Gone are the days I am even embarrassed being in europa.
 

el3mel

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We actually have only qualified for it twice from the league in last 7 years. The other two times were rubbishly knocked out of CL group.

At least we're not yet at Arsenal level who can't even finish top 4 anymore for 4 years or so. :nervous: :nervous:
 

Giggs' right foot

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now we're worried drawing Real Sociedad
I don’t understand how you, and a lot of other people in the draw thread, can be so bad at seeing where us who finds the draw upsetting are coming from.

We should be beating Sociedad over the course of two games. We have better players, and despite a terrible record against Spanish teams, we will probably go through. But a lot of us wants the focus 100% shifted to the league, and with this draw you know that we can’t afford to play a second string team (which we would be able to, with a bunch of the other teams). It’s not a case of “oh no, big bad Sociedad” - it’s a case of disappointment that we’ll need our strongest eleven twice in a tournament that is only ‘okay’ because it has a tier 1 Champions League spot at stake if you win it.

This is my last post today, but it’s astonishing the amount of people saying “well back in my day we could beat anyone, including the aliens in Space Jam and the demons from that Adidas commercial (or some shit like that), and now some of you are afraid of Sociedad hahahaha”. We just wanted a walkover, to be able to chuck some youngsters in there and still go through, that’s all.
 
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Bobcat

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I don’t understand how you, and a lot of other people in the draw thread, can be so bad at seeing where us who finds the draw upsetting are coming from.

We should be beating Sociedad over the course of two games. We have better players, and despite a terrible record against Spanish teams, we will probably go through. But a lot of us wants the focus 100% shifted to the league, and with this draw you know that we can’t afford to play a second string team (which we would be able to, with a bunch of the other teams). It’s not a case of “oh no, big bad Sociedad” - it’s a case of disappointment that we’ll need our strongest eleven twice in a tournament that is only ‘okay’ because it has a tier 1 Champions League spot at stake if you win it.

This is my last post today, but it’s astonishing the amount of people saying “well back in my day we could beat anyone, including the aliens in Space Jam and the demons from that Adidas commercial (or some shit like that), and now some of you are afraid of Sociedad hahahaha”. We just wanted a walkover, to be able to chuck some youngsters in there and still go through, that’s all.
This.

Not been lucky with the draws in Europe this year thats for sure.
 

UnofficialDevil

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I'm not anti Scottish, I just wanted Moyes out.
I don’t understand how you, and a lot of other people in the draw thread, can be so bad at seeing where us who finds the draw upsetting are coming from.

We should be beating Sociedad over the course of two games. We have better players, and despite a terrible record against Spanish teams, we will probably go through. But a lot of us wants the focus 100% shifted to the league, and with this draw you know that we can’t afford to play a second string team (which we would be able to, with a bunch of the other teams). It’s not a case of “oh no, big bad Sociedad” - it’s a case of disappointment that we’ll need our strongest eleven twice in a tournament that is only ‘okay’ because it has a tier 1 Champions League spot at stake if you win it.

This is my last post today, but it’s astonishing the amount of people saying “well back in my day we could beat anyone, including the aliens in Space Jam and the demons from that Adidas commercial (or some shit like that), and now some of you are afraid of Sociedad hahahaha”. We just wanted a walkover, to be able to chuck some youngsters in there and still go through, that’s all.
By that I take it you didn't want us to get through Champions league group to the knock outs either? There would be no easy game there for you to just chuck in some youngsters and focus on the league would there?
 

Ronaldo's ego

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We do belong in the Europa league based on the trajectory of the club in the last ten years. The rot set in during Sir Alex’s reign, it’s just that we don’t have his genius anymore to paper over the cracks. Big clubs are generally embarrassed and humiliated and people will pay for it. Us? Back the manager and trust the process.
 

DRJosh

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I suspect sentiments around United's involvement in the Europa league is largely generational.

For those of us who had the privilege of watching the class of 92 strut their stuff week in week out, there is an element of sadness (although inevitably too) that our standards have plunged.
 

Paul_Scholes18

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This is the biggest thing Ole can realistically win. If we get this title and bring in a better coach that can fight in CL I am sure everyone would be happy.
Let's just go for it 100% and rest players in the league. Unless we really are in the title race, but I doubt it.
 

tomaldinho1

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I don’t understand how you, and a lot of other people in the draw thread, can be so bad at seeing where us who finds the draw upsetting are coming from.

We should be beating Sociedad over the course of two games. We have better players, and despite a terrible record against Spanish teams, we will probably go through. But a lot of us wants the focus 100% shifted to the league, and with this draw you know that we can’t afford to play a second string team (which we would be able to, with a bunch of the other teams). It’s not a case of “oh no, big bad Sociedad” - it’s a case of disappointment that we’ll need our strongest eleven twice in a tournament that is only ‘okay’ because it has a tier 1 Champions League spot at stake if you win it.

This is my last post today, but it’s astonishing the amount of people saying “well back in my day we could beat anyone, including the aliens in Space Jam and the demons from that Adidas commercial (or some shit like that), and now some of you are afraid of Sociedad hahahaha”. We just wanted a walkover, to be able to chuck some youngsters in there and still go through, that’s all.
I would say in this regard, let's see where Sociedad are in La Liga when the tie comes around & let's see where we are. No game is a walkover for this United team sadly, even had we drawn another team, that is where things have changed - I feel the quality is still there but the big game mentality, the concentration and ownership of individual responsibilities has gone. We should win and I believe we will win but I'm certain Socieded will have dropped down La Liga and we don't even know if Ole will be in charge it's so far away.
 

Mindhunter

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I don’t understand how you, and a lot of other people in the draw thread, can be so bad at seeing where us who finds the draw upsetting are coming from.

We should be beating Sociedad over the course of two games. We have better players, and despite a terrible record against Spanish teams, we will probably go through. But a lot of us wants the focus 100% shifted to the league, and with this draw you know that we can’t afford to play a second string team (which we would be able to, with a bunch of the other teams). It’s not a case of “oh no, big bad Sociedad” - it’s a case of disappointment that we’ll need our strongest eleven twice in a tournament that is only ‘okay’ because it has a tier 1 Champions League spot at stake if you win it.

This is my last post today, but it’s astonishing the amount of people saying “well back in my day we could beat anyone, including the aliens in Space Jam and the demons from that Adidas commercial (or some shit like that), and now some of you are afraid of Sociedad hahahaha”. We just wanted a walkover, to be able to chuck some youngsters in there and still go through, that’s all.
Don't worry. We are well prepared. The first XI will only be deployed around the 50 minute mark. As long as we are less than three goals behind, they will win us the game with minimum energy expended. It's all part of the master plan.
 

Dve

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Maybe it will feel different come February, but right now I think we should go all in for the league. If we are up there fighting in February, send a B-team to play Sevilla. If they beat us, fine. A win gives more game time for the fridge players, so that´s fine too.

But again, maybe it will feel different come February.
 

groovyalbert

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Europa League gets such an undeserved rep on here, and in English football in general.

Yes, you can pull the Madrid fans quote out to support the notion we've fallen loads, but Madrid fans are known to be some of the most entitled and superior tw@s in the game. So, even when we were/are at the same level as them, I'd never want our set of fans compared to their garbage.

If you play it right, bring through new youth players, allow foreign imports to settle at the club, there's a lot to be said for the Europa. It's a relatively stress free way of managing a large squad, which we have.

Look at Atletico about ten years ago, they were able to lay the basis for a really successful club period in part off the back of the Europa. It's also the second biggest cup tournament in Europe, and overshadows all domestic cups in the modern game in terms of its quality and springboard it gives you.

There's lots I'm not happy about at the club, but I'll never not want us to do well in a tournament because I think we're too good for it. And that's straight from the Fergie mindset.

If you're better than the tournament you're in, prove it by winning it.
 

Lentwood

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We should be using the Europa League as a chance to rest players. That’s it.

In previous years, I saw it as our most likely route into the CL. This year I’m confident we are good enough to get top four
 

Rood

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The Europa League is more worthy nowadays than it used to be - gone are the days when it was seen as more of a hindrance, English clubs started taking it seriously as soon as they offered the CL place for winners. Not the same for the likes of Bayern or Barca who have little competition for Top4 so are guaranteed anyway

But if we are in a similar position in Feb as we are now then I would play the reserves/kids anyway
 

Adam-Utd

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We have the ability to win it with ease, but also the attitude of not turning up and getting blown away by the first opponents.

We should have won it last season but our lack of finishing let us down again.
 

Jaxa

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I think what the problem is is that people are in denial about how shite we truely are and still think 2013 was a few years ago, we've not won a title of importance for 3/4's of a decade, we've had small highlights here and then but nothing to truly boast about,

It's also a clear view on just how badly run we are under Woodward and will continue to be the case until we get football men (or women) running our club, not finance experts
 

SirMattlives

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I have almost no interest in the Europa. We tried to win it a few months back and it seemed to take more out of us than necessary. Right now, I'd prefer we concentrate on the league. I understand and generally agree with the 'we're in so play to win' attitude but I still can't get interested in it unless we really use it to experiment with players and tactics.
 

theklr

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Sure beats League and FA cup, id rather we play our B-team in those. EL at least give a guaranteed CL spot.

But we desperately need to win something this year, both for having progress to this project, but more importantly that the players get over this mental barrier for performing in games that matter.
 

UnofficialDevil

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I'm not anti Scottish, I just wanted Moyes out.
I suspect sentiments around United's involvement in the Europa league is largely generational.

For those of us who had the privilege of watching the class of 92 strut their stuff week in week out, there is an element of sadness (although inevitably too) that our standards have plunged.
That's what I'm saying but as you can see from most of the replies most consider us a Europa League club now unfortunately.
 

laughtersassassin

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We are a Europa League club now.

It's sad and crap and our standard has to go up. It has to stop being tolerated.
 

lex talionis

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As glorious as a new EL trophy would be to have in our cabinet, it's hard to see us actually winning it. The priority needs to be the PL and if someone Bruno or Harry needs a rest during the midweek to be sharp for an important PL match, rest them.
 

londonredmaniac

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It's the level the club is at to a large degree...partially because of the drop out of the Champions League Groups. Which goes a long way to devaluing the competition.

I think I generally have more time for the Europe League if we are in it from the start...I can't really stand this whole dropping down out the Champions League Groups if I am honest.

However, now we are in it, of course I'd rather win it than not...but we are in quite the dilemma with the sheer number of games we already have to negotiate.

I do miss the days we were swash buckling through Europe and playing exciting football against the cream of the crop at the top level...it did take some time to get there mind you...United didn't exactly have successful runs after winning the league in the early 90's...but part of that was because only champions of their respective country were in it! Beating Porto 4-0 at Old Trafford was the first time I thought we had arrived on the big European stage since before I was born I suppose. Cracking night that.

One of my fondest United memories was winning the 'second rate' Cup Winners Cup against Barca in 91. Genuinely epic night and those older than me who went to Rotterdam remember it as one of the finest nights in United history....hardly a run full of glory playing Pesci, Wrexham, Legia etc...but then European competition was so different back then in structure and culture I suppose.

These days, with so many teams qualifying for the Champions League from tier 1 countries it's hard not to expect a team of United's stature not being in it. I think the notion of us 'turning into a Europa League Club' is a little harsh...given the fact that each of our last 3 managers have qualified us for the Champions League...but you can't deny that each and every appearance in the competition post Fergie has been pretty poor...so I can't help but agree there is some truth in it.

Moyes probably made the best fist of The Champions League rather surprisingly (although he still had some fantastic players to dig him out)!
 

londonredmaniac

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We are a Europa League club now.

It's sad and crap and our standard has to go up. It has to stop being tolerated.
Tolerated by whom is the question though...I don't mean this to be confrontational, I agree with the sentiment but it's hard to quantify...

Tolerated by our support?


I don't see anyone being happy with dropping out of the Champions League at the group stages...depends what you mean by 'tolerate'. Should we stage a protest or a boycott or some sort of civil disobedience every time we end up in the Europa League? Do we ask for every manager who finishes outside of the top 4 or knocked out of the Champions League Group Stage to be sacked (we pretty much have and got nowhere)?

How do we show we won't tolerate it? I don't really fancy white handkerchiefs and booing every home game...but if not that how do we show our dissatisfaction? Rant on forums or social media? Like anyone at the club gives a feck?

Tolerated by our managers?

Do they just say feck it and play the reserves as a show of defiance? You're on dodgy ground if it backfires...and you'd have to say that the manager (unless new that season) has been in some way complicit in getting us in there as opposed to the Champions League....so would look a bit daft unless it was a genuine statement about squad size or quality...big gamble with your job mind you!

Tolerated by our players?


Players will not or should not refuse to play if picked...they would be destroyed for doing so. They could not join the club....but then they have that decision anyway. Nobody is holding a gun to their head to join United. If they are under long contract they can't leave...(unless there is some mad clause in their contract which would be pretty much suicidal).

Tolerated by our owners?

They have shown themselves to be entirely incompetent in pretty much every way apart from serving their own agenda...draining money out of the club, sticking United in a shed load of debt that was never necessary and getting an abundance of sponsorship deals from across the world. I would say that Woodward and The Glazers have made significant improvements to the commercial revenues of the club and its ability to diversify sponsorship and marketing opportunities on a global scale...but they have no great interest in United beyond that vehicle. Since Fergie left (who was holding their shoddy outfit together) they have made an abundance of piss poor decisions relating to the footballing side of things.

Should they sack every manager that fails to meet the grade? Well they have tbf...and it's got us nowhere. I wouldn't trust the fecking shithouses throughout the upper echelons of our football club to manage a fecking piss up in a brewery.

This is about more than the Europa League. It's about the structure of the football club from the top down. It's going to be tough to change without fundamentally changing that structure...and even then it's not going to be instant. It will probably see us at this level for further years whilst changes are made and come to fruition...which may not materialise for a number of reasons.

1. The owners have no desire to sell, and I am not overly sure there are too many viable buyers anyway in this climate.
2. Fan power is difficult in modern football and unless a significant rule change is made to ensure fan ownership models...that shows little sign of changing.
3. The only way we as fans can really demonstrate any great power away from the ownership model, is to disrupt the revenue streams as a whole in a very public way.

Mass boycott (which hasn't worked for various reasons), widespread civil disobedience at or outside the ground (which will never occur in high enough numbers...unless it does all that happens is it gets labelled as a 'mindless thug minority'...plus people have jobs/families and responsibilities they'd be putting in the firing line), or outwardly embarassing the clubs image to make it less desirable as a cash cow to the leeches to convince them it's not worth a bother.

All of these options would have to be backed by match going and non match going fans alike and sustained for a significant period of time. It seems very unlikely...

People seem convinced we need a director of football within the club structure, I agree in principle. However, if they are being appointed by the same dysfunctional higher ups, what guarantee is there they will get that right? What if it doesn't work after 2 or 3 years? Do they then get the sack and start all over again?

This club is either being run by people who don't care about the footballing side (or at best see it as secondary to their main aims), or have no great understanding of it but are so arrogant they think perceive that they do.

The scattergun approach to managerial appointments, transfers of players, the inexplicable offering of new contracts to players that offer no value to the club and the complete lack of any long term strategy is there for all to see...and this is what you get for that. It's not all on the owners of course (how ever much I can't stand the cnuts), managers, players etc have a significant portion of blame also.

A billion pounds odd has been thrown at transfers since Fergie left...with no great continuity or consistency of player or plan...and you can blame managers for that of course, but the overall strategy comes from the club. It's not simply a complaint of money spent, it's a complaint that it's been dispersed poorly...whilst allowing other players of value to simply run down a contract and leave for free (Herrera) or selling for peanuts.

At the end of the day though, you need a solid structure with the footballing interests of the club at the forefront. Our ability to win trophies (or compete at the highest level consistently) hasn't really hit their business model, money in their bank accounts or the level of sponsorship they have managed to acquire to achieve it.
 

Gabagoo

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Play the kids.

It's a competition no one gives a shit about, and let's face it, we never get to see how good (or bad) the kids are. People talk about Ole giving a chance to youth... no he doesn't.

Fck the sponsors. Play the youth players in Europa, give them their chance to impress, a and save the first team squad for an assault on the league.