Manchester United Women 'in discussions' about playing a game at OT next season

[Dudu]

https://www.bbc.com/sport/football/47971096

Spoiler

Despite playing in the predominantly part-time second tier, United have attracted many of the largest club-level women's crowds in Britain this season, including a turnout of 4,835 in August.

But, speaking before Wednesday's win, Stoney told BBC Sport: "We've had discussions with the club [about playing at Old Trafford]."

The head coach added: "It logistically wasn't possible this year with the short turnaround and the schedules. But I know it is something the club are looking into next year.

"If the schedules fit and it's the right time, then I'm sure it's something that could happen."

Fantastic idea. Absolutely nothing to discuss.. make it happen.

They'll be absolutely buzzing to play at OT!!

 

[deadrevelz]

Slightly surprised it hasn't happened yet. The reserves play there sometimes.

 

[Indnyc]

Excellent stuff.. They could have low priced tickets and it would be a fantastic occasion for everyone

 

[Carl]

Have it at Old Trafford, make it free. Will get a massive crowd and no doubt squire a number of fans in the process.

 

[Snow]

It sounds good on paper but in honesty playing in a massively empty stadium is far from ideal.

 

[Sandikan]

It sounds good on paper but in honesty playing in a massively empty stadium is far from ideal.

Agreed.

Lovely idea and all that, but if anyone has ever been at Wembley to see say, a non league cup final, with about 7,000 fans there, it's really rubbish really.

 

[Carl]

It sounds good on paper but in honesty playing in a massively empty stadium is far from ideal.

You'd be surprised. If it was free we'd get a big crowd, as we have for the reserves in the past. Granted the stadium would be largely empty, but it would still be a bigger crowd than they'd realistically get anywhere else.

 

[Snow]

You'd be surprised. If it was free we'd get a big crowd, as we have for the reserves in the past. Granted the stadium would be largely empty, but it would still be a bigger crowd than they'd realistically get anywhere else.

I think you're being idealistic rather than realistic here. The average attendance is less than 1k per match with Chelsea and City having less than 2k per match. Even if you manage somehow to get 5k on average for a club with no tradition in women's football you're looking at more than 70k empty seats per match. That's more empty seats than there are currently available seats in the entire WSL combined.

edit: k's had no business being in some places

 

[decorativeed]

I think you're being idealistic rather than realistic here. The average attendance is less than 1000k per match with Chelsea and City having less than 2000k per match. Even if you manage somehow to get 5000k on average for a club with no tradition in women's football you're looking at more than 70k empty seats per match. That's more empty seats than there are currently available seats in the entire WSL combined.

I think a million people is a fairly decent attendance, but you obviously are more ambitious than I.

 

[Samid]

Don't see why they shouldn't get one game at OT.

 

[Snow]

I think a million people is a fairly decent attendance, but you obviously are more ambitious than I.

I did say less

 

[Carl]

I think you're being idealistic rather than realistic here. The average attendance is less than 1000k per match with Chelsea and City having less than 2000k per match. Even if you manage somehow to get 5000k on average for a club with no tradition in women's football you're looking at more than 70k empty seats per match. That's more empty seats than there are currently available seats in the entire WSL combined.

It's a one off at OT. If it was free it would get a big crowd.

They made a youth cup semi final free there a while back. Was over 9000 people attended. Our average (afaik) is less than 2000.

I know that's still a lot of empty seats, but it's still way more than they could fit anywhere else.

I honestly think it's a no brainer. Loads would go that wouldn't usually go. Particularly families with girls interested in playing football.

I'd sure as hell go.

 

[Snow]

It's a one off at OT. If it was free it would get a big crowd.

They made a youth cup semi final free there a while back. Was over 9000 people attended. Our average (afaik) is less than 2000.

I know that's still a lot of empty seats, but it's still way more than they could fit anywhere else.

I honestly think it's a no brainer. Loads would go that wouldn't usually go. Particularly families with girls interested in playing football.

I'd sure as hell go.

I'm still no sure even if it's a one off. There's a better atmosphere and it looks more impressive to fill a stadium of 8k seats than having 8k people in a stadium that seats 77k. An experiment is fine but filling your own ground would be better.

 

[Grande]

Brilliant!

 

[RORY65]

Juve did this a few weeks ago and filled out the Juventus Stadium while Atletico vs Barcelona got 60 thousand recently as well so I'm not sure where the idea that there would be only a few thousand is coming from. It almost certainly wouldn't fill out but if the club properly promoted it and made the game free then they could get a lot of people which would be massive for the team and the women's game generally in this country.

 

[Green_Red]

Put it on before one of our evening kick offs in the Prem, anyone with a ticket can go up early.

 

[Reddy Rederson]

Great idea. Should make it a whole big day out for people to go to the game, meet the girls. Interacting with the local community can only help promote the woman’s game further, which they all deserve.

 

[sullydnl]

Even if it did end up being a small crowd, the players would still get to play at Old Trafford, which probably makes it worthwhile from their point of view in and of itself.

 

[TMDaines]

It sounds good on paper but in honesty playing in a massively empty stadium is far from ideal.

And everyone there will be there for free or heavily discounted.

It’s all well and good Neville asking for stadiums to throw open their doors for the women’s game, but no one actually wants to pay to watch it. The big women’s attedances in Europe face the same problem. Professional sport is dependent upon people paying to watch athletes perform. There is a still a disconnect between people supposedly want the women’s game to be well paid and fully professional, and anyone actually being willing to regularly pay for any sort of pricey ticket. Expecting the men’s game to give charity to the women’s game indefinitely for the sake of avoiding negative PR from not being seen as progressive isn’t sustainable long term.

 

[decorativeed]

And everyone there will be there for free or heavily discounted.

It’s all well and good Neville asking for stadiums to throw open their doors for the women’s game, but no one actually wants to pay to watch it. The big women’s attedances in Europe face the same problem. Professional sport is dependent upon people paying to watch athletes perform. There is a still a disconnect between people supposedly want the women’s game to be well paid and fully professional, and anyone actually being willing to regularly pay for any sort of pricey ticket. Expecting the men’s game to give charity to the women’s game indefinitely for the sake of avoiding negative PR from not being seen as progressive isn’t sustainable long term.

Come on, it's absolutely no different to when the club put on u-23 matches at Old Trafford. It's completely free to get in, and they do that several times per season, and have been for four or five years. They know that getting people to pay money for these games is difficult, so they don't bother trying, they just aim to get people through the turnstiles.

In the 90s, I used to pay a pound to watch the reserves at OT, a nominal sum even then.

 

[jojojo]

I'm assuming we're talking about the occasional big match at OT, which would be great. When OT's used for smaller crowds, they open the lower tier and the one or more of the stands that the TV camera sees. So, it doesn't have to be even close to capacity to feel OK if you're in the crowd.

That said, a couple of European clubs have run the experiment of having a well-publicised free match at their main stadium this season. Athletic got 48000 to a Cup match at St Mames, Atletico got 60000 at the Wanda, Juventus got 39000 to the Allianz

United women get around 2000 to the Sunday lunchtime matches at Leigh, more for the games against the bigger teams, it can drop to around 1000 for midweek evening fixtures though.

It's early days in terms of building the kind of emotional loyalty that makes people show up on cold, wet winter evenings (particularly given that public transport isn't really an option to get to the stadium) - but a good run by England in the World Cup this summer could spark a lot of interest.

A nice match against City played on a Sunday at 12 noon could be a nice way to introduce the team to a bigger audience. It's a time of change in the women's game and United are exactly the kind of club that can use that.

 

[TMDaines]

Come on, it's absolutely no different to when the club put on u-23 matches at Old Trafford. It's completely free to get in, and they do that several times per season, and have been for four or five years. They know that getting people to pay money for these games is difficult, so they don't bother trying, they just aim to get people through the turnstiles.

In the 90s, I used to pay a pound to watch the reserves at OT, a nominal sum even then.

But that’s a different kettle of fish. The men’s u-23 team fulfills a different purpose. It’s essentially a training match and an investment in the first team that generates the revenue.

If you want the women’s game to be professional and comparably paid to the men’s game it needs to attract revenue. I’m not dismissing the idea of the women playing at OT. What I am saying is that there is a massive difference between a crowd of 50000 attending a match for free or for less than a fiver, and them paying £25+. One can support careers, the other makes the team amateurs.

 

[jojojo]

And everyone there will be there for free or heavily discounted.

It’s all well and good Neville asking for stadiums to throw open their doors for the women’s game, but no one actually wants to pay to watch it. The big women’s attedances in Europe face the same problem. Professional sport is dependent upon people paying to watch athletes perform. There is a still a disconnect between people supposedly want the women’s game to be well paid and fully professional, and anyone actually being willing to regularly pay for any sort of pricey ticket. Expecting the men’s game to give charity to the women’s game indefinitely for the sake of avoiding negative PR from not being seen as progressive isn’t sustainable long term.

For the men's game commercially, it's not seen as charity. More like a recognition that men's football may have reached saturation in terms of its ability to increase income from local fans, and even in terms of getting new sponsors.

Additionally, United and some other clubs now sell most of their tickets to season ticket holders. The cost for a family with kids to go to OT to watch the first team is high, but getting 4+ tickets together is more or less impossible. There's no commercial incentive to give up the guaranteed income the season tickets provide, but there is a (commercial) incentive to finding ways to get kids to football matches, because you're going to need to find ways of getting them as hooked on football as matchgoers as the current generation of ticket holders.

For the clubs (and the game generally) it's a cheap bet on growing their fanbase and widening sponsorship options, not just an act of PR friendly charity.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

It sounds good on paper but in honesty playing in a massively empty stadium is far from ideal.

I've seen FA Youth Cup semi finals and Final at Old Trafford - most of the stadium is empty, a few thousand in the North stand. It's fine and didn't feel weird.

I imagine the United's women team could get a 20-30k attendance for a one off game at Old Trafford

 

[redshaw]

Would hope they offer free entry as that's how Juve and Atletico got the big crowd in. The BBC don't mention that part.

 

[jojojo]

But that’s a different kettle of fish. The men’s u-23 team fulfills a different purpose. It’s essentially a training match and an investment in the first team that generates the revenue.

If you want the women’s game to be professional and comparably paid to the men’s game it needs to attract revenue. I’m not dismissing the idea of the women playing at OT. What I am saying is that there is a massive difference between a crowd of 50000 attending a match for free or for less than a fiver, and them paying £25+. One can support careers, the other makes the team amateurs.

There's a massive question of chicken or the egg going on right now in the women's game in England. The FA have gambled on insisting that the top League is a pro league. That's firmly on the principle that fulltime opportunities to train and make a career as a footballer will lead to higher standards on the pitch, and a better game. It's also acknowledgement that some teams who'd already committed to having FT players were starting to outclass their amateur/semipro rivals to the point of embarrassment.

The costs of running a top women's team are comparable to those of running a mid table National League men's team. Club wages are typically between £20k-£35k per year (though some players on contracts that will give them less than £200/week) and the top earners in the England team are on less than £100k/year including England team bonus and sponsorships). They aren't amateurs, they just aren't going to be driving round in new Bentleys on it.

Incidentally, in terms of ticket price. When I was a teenager in the 70s I remember paying between about 60p and £1 for a ticket - which if I run it through https://www.bankofengland.co.uk/monetary-policy/inflation/inflation-calculator puts ticket prices comfortably under a tenner - which brings it down to the kind of prices charged now for women's matches and pricing/seating policies that encourage families to bring the kids. Obviously the women's game has a long way to go to fund itself from gate receipts, but then the men's game doesn't do that either.

 

[jojojo]

Would hope they offer free entry as that's how Juve and Atletico got the big crowd in. The BBC don't mention that part.

Atletico was interesting - they basically did season ticket holders, club members and their families for free. People did have to apply for tickets though and in their case, the tickets were all allocated before the game.

I would guess United will try something similar.

Incidentally, tickets for Lyon women's games are sold at between 5 and 20 euros. They had 17,000 for the women's CL QF against Wolfsburg last month and over 25000 for a league match against PSG last week. Early days, but starting to go beyond novelty territory.

 

[Minimalist]

Good plan I think. Should just make sure it's a big enough match and then promote the feck out of it to get as many people into the stadium as possible.

 

[decorativeed]

But that’s a different kettle of fish. The men’s u-23 team fulfills a different purpose. It’s essentially a training match and an investment in the first team that generates the revenue.

If you want the women’s game to be professional and comparably paid to the men’s game it needs to attract revenue. I’m not dismissing the idea of the women playing at OT. What I am saying is that there is a massive difference between a crowd of 50000 attending a match for free or for less than a fiver, and them paying £25+. One can support careers, the other makes the team amateurs.

So you think the club should only do things that benefit the development of the men's team?

 

[TMDaines]

So you think the club should only do things that benefit the development of the men's team?

Not at all, but I never felt that United should be obliged or pressured to have a women’s team just because.

Increasingly organisations are finding themselves pressurised to ensure pay is equal between genders (whatever that means) and we could find ourselves in a political environment in ten or twenty years time where it is deemed no longer acceptable to have the wage budget of the playing staff between the men’s and women’s teams being unequal.

That might sound farfetched but other sports are already in that position, where the tennis majors are pressured to offer equal prize money, despite every metric showing that that the audience is primarily interested in the men’s game. People want to watch the absolute elite, what a surprise!

It needs to be remembered that professional sport exists because individuals pay to watch people perform or organisations want to associate themselves with the sport for the purposes of advertising. Nobody has a divine right to make a living from being good or even the best at their sport, regardless of agenda.

Sooner or later, the top women’s teams are going to need to monetise their spectators, otherwise they are entirely dependent off the charity of their associated men’s team.

Great. Give the United’s women’s team a showpiece match at OT, but don’t give away 50000 free tickets and pretend that that somehow shows that the interest in the two teams is remotely comparable. You’ve got to convince people that the women’s game is a serious sport worthy of spending money on a proper ticket.

 

[decorativeed]

Not at all, but I never felt that United should be obliged or pressured to have a women’s team just because.

Increasingly organisations are finding themselves pressurised to ensure pay is equal between genders (whatever that means) and we could find ourselves in a political environment in ten or twenty years time where it is deemed no longer acceptable to have the wage budget of the playing staff between the men’s and women’s teams being unequal.

That might sound farfetched but other sports are already in that position, where the tennis majors are pressured to offer equal prize money, despite every metric showing that that the audience is primarily interested in the men’s game. People want to watch the absolute elite, what a surprise!

It needs to be remembered that professional sport exists because individuals pay to watch people perform or organisations want to associate themselves with the sport for the purposes of advertising. Nobody has a divine right to make a living from being good or even the best at their sport, regardless of agenda.

Sooner or later, the top women’s teams are going to need to monetise their spectators, otherwise they are entirely dependent off the charity of their associated men’s team.

Great. Give the United’s women’s team a showpiece match at OT, but don’t give away 50000 free tickets and pretend that that somehow shows that the interest in the two teams is remotely comparable. You’ve got to convince people that the women’s game is a serious sport worthy of spending money on a proper ticket.

And how do you do that? I'd say affording them the same privilege as the under-23 men's team wouldn't be a bad start, and I'm not sure someone can legitimately object to it based on a perceived 'agenda'.

The line about being forced to have equal pay is clearly rubbish, when you already have huge differences in pay between people of the same gender, playing in the same league, never mind the same team. That's the nature of professional sports.

 

[jojojo]

Would hope they offer free entry as that's how Juve and Atletico got the big crowd in. The BBC don't mention that part.

Just seen an article on the BBC site:
https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/47871431
That has this to say about the Atletico-Barca match at the Wanda.
"They were marketed well, with Atletico offering free tickets to their members, and charging from five to 25 euros for non-member tickets, which amounted to 27,000 seats sold or 45% of the attendance."

I hadn't seen that 45% paid ticket figure before, I thought a higher proportion had been distributed (free) to members.

 

[Snow]

I've seen FA Youth Cup semi finals and Final at Old Trafford - most of the stadium is empty, a few thousand in the North stand. It's fine and didn't feel weird.

I imagine the United's women team could get a 20-30k attendance for a one off game at Old Trafford

You might think it's fine because you're at Old Trafford watching a match, I'm looking at it from the perspective of the players. It will feel a lot better to see 10k in a full stadium than 10k in a huge stadium where it neither feels like 10k by looking at it or listening.

 

[Cloud7]

Insert comment about them playing better football than the men’s team.

By all accounts haven’t they actually really been playing better than the men’s team?

 

[WR10]

The issue here is not how many people it would attract. Clearly, they will easily attract a large sum if they're at old trafford. It's just scheduling logistics especially when it's not factored in the pre-season plans.

It would be a fecking blast if the women team played at old trafford.

 

[Cloud7]

That said, a couple of European clubs have run the experiment of having a well-publicised free match at their main stadium this season. Athletic got 48000 to a Cup match at St Mames, Atletico got 60000 at the Wanda, Juventus got 39000 to the Allianz

Those are some fecking impressive numbers considering that other people in the thread are talking about struggling to make it to 5K.

Honestly speaking, United can afford to do this as a free venture. With the amount of money the club makes they can more than put on this match at OT entirely free of charge. I hope that they go through with this.

 

[2 man midfield]

Don’t see a problem with it really. They play for Man United.

Must be amazing for the players.

 

[Gary_Walsh_Nou_Camp_Hell]

You might think it's fine because you're at Old Trafford watching a match, I'm looking at it from the perspective of the players. It will feel a lot better to see 10k in a full stadium than 10k in a huge stadium where it neither feels like 10k by looking at it or listening.

I'm sure the players in the youth team or the women's team would love to play at Old Trafford given the choice

 

[jojojo]

The issue here is not how many people it would attract. Clearly, they will easily attract a large sum if they're at old trafford. It's just scheduling logistics especially when it's not factored in the pre-season plans.

It would be a fecking blast if the women team played at old trafford.

It was mentioned last year that United were hoping to schedule a match at OT. The women's timetable is all over the place though - no games for three weeks then 3 in 7 days, weekend League matches cancelled at three days notice to make way for a cup replay. The schedule isn't condusive to planning!

If we'd drawn City in the Cup, or if our WSL Cup semi-final with Arsenal had been a home game then maybe we'd have had more incentive to do it. Next season though, we're guaranteed to play City, Liverpool etc at home - so one of them should be a possibility.

 

[Snow]

I'm sure the players in the youth team or the women's team would love to play at Old Trafford given the choice

The women's team has a bunch of international players. They'd love to play in front of a good atmosphere more than anything.

Youth team is different as you're showing them a path of what may come.