is he always that bad with the ball at his feet?
Manuel Neuer
- Thread starter golden_blunder
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He's used to no pressure being applied on him in the Bundesliga. He said himself it's only a matter of time before he starts playing higher up the pitch.
Chase him down and there's his weakness. We must do this again next week
I thought he was quite good for someone who was being pressed and stressed due to all the work he had to do. The better of the two goalkeepers on that day, some of his last-man stops were so crucial.
Can't really think of any better goalkeepers with the ball at their feet in world football.
Can't really think of any better goalkeepers with the ball at their feet in world football.
Didn't think he was bad either, but I think De Gea and Valdes are better with the ball at their feet.
former coaches have been heard to say he could play comfortably in the field in a 3rd div team.
He looked terrified when the ball was passed back to him. Visions of Ben Fosturd.
Not too sure about DDG tbf. I think he hasn't been too good with the ball at his feet lately; his left foot is only decent and he has made a few wayward clearances.
Eh? I thought he was fantastic. Not sure I've ever really seen a keeper so calm on the ball that he plays like a sweeper half the time, invites a bit of pressure and picks out a defender rather than nailing it upfield.
I think he's comfortably the best keeper around. Something Schmeichel like about his shot stopping and handling, while he's calm on the ball and good at reading the game to come out and head it if need be.
I think he's comfortably the best keeper around. Something Schmeichel like about his shot stopping and handling, while he's calm on the ball and good at reading the game to come out and head it if need be.
You're joking right? I'm someone who thinks DDG is slightly, and I do mean... slightly overated by United fans, (Doesn't come off his line enough yet) but he's easily one of the best around with the ball at his feet, I still have nightmares of Bosnich trying to kick the ball.
Can someone please correct the name in the title, it's hurting my eyes.
De Gea struggled way more yesterday, imo. Thought Neuer was excellent with the exception of the one really shit pass at the beginning of the game. According to whoscored, Neuer played 24 passes with an accuracy of 75% yesterday, de Gea 18 passes with 39%. United overall had only 66% to add some perspective. Strange to call that struggling for a goalkeeper, when even under pressure he most of the time found a good pass to a teammate and didn't just kick it forward.
Reina is excellent with the ball at his feet.
As for the positions he takes up though, I thought Rooney would have tried to get him at some stage last night. He's generally outside his box when Bayern attack.
As for the positions he takes up though, I thought Rooney would have tried to get him at some stage last night. He's generally outside his box when Bayern attack.
It's not that simple. Neuer had way more short passes to his teammates, De Gea almost exclusively went with long distribution.
interesting stats but i thought he looked panicked when Rooney or Welbeck put pressure on him, didnt seem used to that happening.
Which is exactly the point? Even under pressure Neuer controled the ball and looked for a teammate instead of just playing the long ball. The first posts in this thread state he struggled under pressure and is weak on the ball, which makes no sense, it was exactly the opposite yesterday.
It maybe wasn't clear, but I wasn't talking only about yesterday's game: the way we set up, of course the stats are going to be better for Neuer. He had the opportunity to play a lot of short passes, with usually just Rooney trying to press two or three defenders. De Gea, his 'passes' were most of the time long clearances. They were in good zones quite often, but they're always 50/50 balls.
In any case, I was speaking from a general point of view. De Gea is excellent with his feet for me, one of the best out there. Rossa, you talk about 'a few wayward clearances', I don't know if you're referring to the City game (where he wasn't great as far as footwork is concerned, one of his 'worst' games for us), but generally speaking he's excellent. He's technically rather good and has more than once eluded strong pressing with a high risk little trick, and his kicking is excellent, very accurate. It doesn't always translate into stats because a long clearance into the path of an attacker is, as I said, a 50/50 ball, but you only have to watch him on a regular basis to know he's excellent with his feet.
And, again, I didn't think Neuer was bad at all last night, I said so right at the beginning of my post. I was just answering Pippa's post.
That's the point? Neuer, being pressed very often, controlled balls before spreading them wide. De Gea would just hoof it out in almost every occasion. In terms of distribution, Neuer is a cut above De Gea.
I'm not sure about Neuer and if he struggled or not, just don't think it's true to say that De Gea struggled way more, and only based on passing stats.
When pressed, Neuer kept kicking it out of touch. De Gea almost always found Fellaini or Welbeck with his clearances.
I never joke!
I know that DDG is one of the best around with the ball at his feet; he has a tremendous technique, but normally he would never use his right foot where it was natural to use his left. I remember VDS receiving the ball on his left, having two minutes to shift it to his right, but didn't bother. DDG looks a little uneasy at times this season. Passing the ball he's brilliant, but hoofing it, I'm not convinced as of late. I know he's world class at this, so that's why I'm mentioning it.
Bosnich was bad, but has there been worse than Kusczak?
As for overrating him, a Liverpool fan of mine said he surely must be the best goalie in the PL!
No, he isn't. And certainly not based on the match last night.
Neuer is the best keeper in the world with the ball at his feet. A couple of supposed nervous clearances in 90 minutes of football doesn't change that.
Fair enough, when you had that impression, still doesn't make much sense to me. He controled the ball well and found his teammates under pressure without much problems. We didn't struggle at all in the build-up from deep. Also, while you rarely see great defending deep in the box in Germany, we have countless teams that play way better pressing than United yesterday. Neuer definitely is used to pressure and I can't think of a goalkeeper who's more comfortable against it and needs less long balls to get out of these situations. Pretty sure the overall stats back that up.
So far this season:
De Gea averages 16.8 passes with 55.9% accuracy, Valdes 14.9 passes with 64.6% and Neuer 25.9 passes with 85.9%. No keeper participates as much in the build-up as Neuer and relies less on long balls when pressured. There's such a massive gap between him and the other sweeper keepers out there, it's really strange that his ability on the ball is questioned.
Valdes is easily better for me.
Seriously? One goalkeeper completed 75% of his passes, the other completed 39%. One goalkeeper completed 50% of his long passes, the other completed 39%.
It's obvious that De Gea almost always found Fellaini or Welbeck with his clearances.
I doubt many teams play 2 up top pressing the keeper like that, hence the almost suicidal tendancy shown yesterday to try and play it out from the back. Its great when there's one striker and a packed midfield, when you have 2 up the pitch with decent appetite to close down its really risky
Exactly, he kicked a couple of balls out of touch as soon as Rooney and Welbeck pressed him. This notion that he is calmer than De Gea is false.
Instead of percentages, why don't you provide the number of long passes attempted. If he got 1 right out of 2, it will still count as 50%.Seriously? One goalkeeper completed 75% of his passes, the other completed 39%. One goalkeeper completed 50% of his long passes, the other completed 39%.
It's obvious that De Gea almost always found Fellaini or Welbeck with his clearances.
He did? Neuer completed 5 out of 10, that's the 50% in his post. De Gea 7 out of 18, that's the 39% he mentioned.
Those stats don't exist in a vacuum though. There's a hell of a lot of other factors that determine number of passes and passing accuracy that aren't related to the quality of the goalkeeper involved.
That's not to say that Neuer isn't good with the ball, because he undoubtedly is, but it helps that your team is set up to pass from the back. In last night's game, and presumably throughout the season (I haven't caught anywhere near your games so I'm not going to pretend I'm an expert) when Neuer's received the ball he's had players moving into space to give him options. Obviously in that context, especially as Bayern have been incredibly dominant in all competitions this season, he's going to come out with some very favourable stats compared to someone like DDG playing for us this season.
edit: fwiw I reckon the reason people are picking up on the passing is that a couple of times when we put Neuer under pressure last night he punted the ball straight out of play for a throw-in and that stuck in peoples' heads.
5/10 vs 7/18. De Gea hoofed the ball more than Neuer did under less pressure. De Gea didn't have two forwards regularly running into his penalty box like Neuer did. I have absolutely no idea where you're going with this.
The graphic shows how you're revising what you saw yesterday to suit your narrative.
Yet he completely owns Valdes and Barca are hardly that different in the build-up from deep?
Mate, just admit when you're wrong.
So even if we assume that Neuer would have maintained that high passing percentage with long passes, it would have amounted to 9 out of 18 to De Gea's 7 out of 18. How does that prove "In terms of distribution, Neuer is a cut above De Gea"?
No way is Neuer a "cut-above" De Gea in distribution. Especially with those stats, which prove that he was slightly better. 2 more successful long passes than De Gea if he continues with that 50% trajectory.
Because one completely relies on long balls under pressure to get out of difficult situations while the other controls the ball and looks for his teammates most of the time to keep possession? De Gea played 18 passes yesterday and all counted as long balls, Neuer played 24 and only 10 of those were long balls.
Exactly, I wouldn't even say De Gea is particularly notable for his ability to play with the ball, he's just pretty standard in that department.
Where as Valdes and Neuer are known for playing as sweeper keepers and constantly being an out ball for the team and switching play to the other flank etc..
That has more to do with the options available to Neuer and how Bayern set up. We had less options as Bayern were on many of our defenders as soon as we played the ball back. Whenever we put pressure on Neuer, he invariably kicked it long. It's not rocket science.
You have to keep in mind that Neuer plays with defenders who move to make passing options whereas De Gea plays with pylons as defenders.
No need to be defensive, I said in the post you've quoted he's good with the ball. I'm just pointing out that other factors are involved, not least the fact that he plays for the best team in the world at this moment.
This is especially harsh, it's difficult to prove how good you are on the ball as a goalkeeper when you don't play in a system where your defenders give you the option to pass it short.