Marcelo Bielsa on ManUtd style of play - "The more simple the football is, the better it is.
- Thread starter roonster09
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Read something similar about Zidane at Real yesterday. Makes sense to me, the more I think about it.
Very nice words from Bielsa, who's not a slouch himself tactics wise!
bielsa is just buttering the club up so he can replace woodward. see mourinho prior to being our manager.
Not entirely sure the man who played 4-1-5 against us is someone I'm particularly keen to impress with our tactics.
Bielsa clearly knows nothing about patterns of play.
‘’Playing football is very simple, but playing simple football is the hardest thing there is.” Johan Cruyff.
I have watched Sir Alex Ferguson era for long time. I don’t know why the fans still prefer a manager with more complicated style with complex and fancy name like ‘’tiki taka’’ ‘’gengen press’’ ‘’Total football’’. Football is very simple.
I have watched Sir Alex Ferguson era for long time. I don’t know why the fans still prefer a manager with more complicated style with complex and fancy name like ‘’tiki taka’’ ‘’gengen press’’ ‘’Total football’’. Football is very simple.
But the patterns, where are the patterns
There's nothing complicated about those styles of play so long as they suit the players and they are able to understand and carry it out. That's essentially Bielsa's point.
If we have a manager that relies purely on players ability - all we need is 11 amazing players on the pitch at the time.
I never really saw what was wrong with that.
I never really saw what was wrong with that.
I think Pep's success has somewhat skewed the opinions of the modern fan when it comes to tactics. The principles of Juego de posicion rely far too much on robotic indoctrination of players for my liking. The basic essence is not dissimilar to what LVG was trying to do with us, it's just that Pep is able to train his players that much quicker. Also helps he can buy the best players suited to his system as well.
Under Ole, our system is much more individual based compared to Pep's or even teams like Leipzig or to a lesser extent even Brighton. People take that as Ole being an incapable coach or not as good as some of the others. Personally, I perceive it as similar to what Bielsa is saying. Our system allows more creative freedom to individuals than a thorough indoctrination, a bit of a throwback to how most teams operated 15 or so years back. Of course it's a matter of individual preference what one prefers but I like our style of play much better than Pep's or Leipzig etc.
Its alright having 'simple tactics' as long as they win trophies. So far with these 'simple tactics' we have won feck all. Lets win some top trophies before we say this works.
As long as your style brings you trophies, it is successful. If we win CL or PL under Ole than his style is good enough. So far, we have won nothing. If we win EL, then we can come close to Mou's level of success at United. Hopefully, we go beyond and exceed.
Its shooting us up the league, id say its working.
Its doing a lot to fix the shit state we were in pre Ole, thats for sure.
Total football is probably the most successful tactical style in history. Tiki taka not far behind. Not the best examples to use.
We finished 2nd under Mourinho. I want to see regular trophies won before you can say anythings a success. Peps tactics still way out in front at the moment.
Tiki taka and total football are very simple. Basically their whole point is simplicity.
It's also perfectly alright to be patient, when it's clear the team is progressing.
2nd and that was it. Its now top 3 for two years in a row with constant improvement. We are even on course to beat Citys tally from last year.
Its working. We are getting results with these players that we didnt think was possible.
Klopp dominated the league last year with simplified tactics. Its not as simple as saying 1 way of playing is better than the other. Theyre just different.
Am I the only one who sees this as a sly dig?
Yes, but the point I'm making is you cant say Ole's tactic is better than another, Peps for example, when it clearly isnt at this time. Yes we have improved, but as i said we had a false dawn with Mourinho. We won the 2 trophies one year, then finished 2nd. Ole needs to win a major trophy next season as proof his tactics are at least on a level with Pep. If he can get better players in certain positions then this could happen. CD RB DM RW and ST if Cavani goes would certainly help.
Really?
How many teams in football history have ever fielded 11 amazing players on the pitch at the time?
I doubt you can name any in the past 20 years.
Hold on, Klopp got Liverpool to two Champions League finals (one of which he won) and won the Premier League. Right now it's fair to say Klopp made it work - Ole has some way to go before we can say his playing style is a success.
It's the fault of Pep and his ilk. Pep has shown you can have it all. Brilliant football, patterns all over the place, tiki taka, defensive stability, trophies and records.
For the moment we have defensive stability, that is about it. But we are working towards trophies.
Depends on what you call as amazing.
Madrid team that won CLs or Barca team was amazing, full of Amazing players.
This squad still has weaknesses, and I think now those weaknesses are there for all to see. That's a good thing, because it means they can be rectified, and by the players we seem to be targeting for next summer, Ole and co appear to be on course to do that. This squad isn't even close to maturity yet. All the players are clearly on board with what Ole is doing. What's more, it's working. We're ridiculously hard to beat right now. There's no reason why we can't be challenging for major trophies soon.
No he also won 2 trophies so still got a better record than Ole at the moment (and I never wanted Mourinho so not a fanboy). Ole needs to win a major trophy next season to say his tactics are working.
Agreed.
Pep's football is better, he's the best manager of his generation.
However I do feel that our general play is getting better. Our points total is steadily growing each season, since Ole took charge.
I see alot of positives going forward, with hopefully 2-3 quality additions to the squad this summer.
Maybe not 11 but what hugh core tactics did SAF's Ronaldo rooney Carrick, Tevez, Park Ji Sung, Scholes, vidic, Rio, VDs, Evra, Hargreaves etc have?
I didnt see them playing gegenpressing or possession football and yet would only play something like counter attack against Barcelona's possession football itself.
They all played like individuals trying to play cohesively.
You had the energy of PARK ji Sung or Tevez the aerial ability of Ronaldo, the no nonsense ability of Vidic and the ball playing ability Rio and Carrick of Scholes.
I agree with most of your post but just wanted to mention that we have only scored 5 goals less than City having played one less game. We have no way near the depth of squad that City have. In that way our attacking output has been very commendable.
I don’t think we have the players to suit a more flamboyant tactical style. Ole’s done well with his pragmatic style to steady the ship and secure his job, what I imagine were his two primary objectives. I think in the future with a couple more transfer windows under his belt we may start to see a more distinct, attractive style. And players like Donny having a bigger role over some headless runners.
Los galácticos are the closest we're ever going to get in terms of so many amazing players on the pitch but as they didn't win a CL it looks like it takes more than great players to be successful.
Its the style thats being dicussed. At Liverpools best they were rigid, held positions, hard working and incredibly direct. Simplified tactics brought to a high level.
We've scored the second most amount of goals in the league and if we repeat the result in the reverse fixture we would be go level with City, we finished top scorers in our CL group despite finishing 3rd, we've broken records for goals scored in consecutive games in the league, we're on our longest ever unbeaten run away from home and teams like City are now playing for draws against us because they're afraid to attack. To say all we have is defensive stability is doing an incredible disservice to the players and coaches.
I know it is. You said you can't say one style is better than the other, when you most definitely can. The proof is in the pudding.
Sir Alex didnt have a complicated style, neither did Leicester. Zidane is famous for keeping tacitis simple at Madrid.
Unless you mean a very specific pudding, the evidence just isnt there. Biesla himself is arguing with you
No I agree with you, Bielsa has been around the block a few times, he knows the value of 'getting your retaliation in first'. Comments about United a few days before the two meet is not unusual and can be uttered under the disguise of answering Sporting journo's questions, but its where you put the emphasis, is this an example of footballing 'gaslighting'?
You're kind of falsified your own statement here. We need to win major trophies next year in order for Ole to prove his tactical acumen, yet we have to replace half our outfield team?
He's probably right. Football isn't chess, it's a fairly simple game. But there is no right or wrong way to play, the objective is to score more goals than the opposition. Doesn't matter how you do it. Some days it will work other days it won't.
Personally I think having intelligent footballers is more important that shoving players into a system. What Pep had at Barca was both, extremely intelligent players playing in a system.
Personally I think having intelligent footballers is more important that shoving players into a system. What Pep had at Barca was both, extremely intelligent players playing in a system.