That's why he should be sold. We can't have a senior player who switch on or off according to his agenda. It's bad for the club and to have around kids
Marcus Rashford (Out) | Ornstein: United want to keep, will only consider substantial bids
- Thread starter Samid
- Start date
Not since SAF left no. We had a purple patch after Ronaldo left last year but it was short lived.
I’d take £50m. Get his wages off the books and we’ll be saving £7.5m a year even if he’s replaced with someone on £150k a week
...for about six months, then back to square one.
From Wiki,
- He has 85 goals so far in about 223 games in this last 5 seasons (including this one).
- Both his off seasons, this one and the one in 21-22 came after seasons where he appeared in 55+ games in the season and was run into the ground; first by Ole and then by ETH last season.
Can one of you Stats Gurus find out for me how many assists Rashford has in the last 5 seasons (5 including this one). Once you have that, can you please give me a comparison of the other top left wingers in world in terms of goals and assists.
Before someone gets on the soapbox about their "Stats are not everything" pitch, I acknowledge that stats are not everything. I am also a little disappointed that Rashford's game hasn't developed to the level I expected it to in time since his debut. His goal scoring, even in his best seasons, comes in patches and his dribbling & decision making can leave a lot to be desired at times. However, I do not believe in the assertion that he is lazy or doesn't want to put a shift in or whatever consistently. I am sure there is a reason his drop-offs have been after seasons in which he has been overworked and overused. 'Tiredness', can be an excuse for someone who is expected to make sprints at full pelt chasing the ball in a counter-attacking set-up for an entire season playing 50+ games.
I am not ready to let Rashford go, especially without knowing that we are getting another top notch replacement who is equally or more productive than he has been over a significant period of time. So, someone please provide the comparison. Thanks.
- He has 85 goals so far in about 223 games in this last 5 seasons (including this one).
- Both his off seasons, this one and the one in 21-22 came after seasons where he appeared in 55+ games in the season and was run into the ground; first by Ole and then by ETH last season.
Can one of you Stats Gurus find out for me how many assists Rashford has in the last 5 seasons (5 including this one). Once you have that, can you please give me a comparison of the other top left wingers in world in terms of goals and assists.
Before someone gets on the soapbox about their "Stats are not everything" pitch, I acknowledge that stats are not everything. I am also a little disappointed that Rashford's game hasn't developed to the level I expected it to in time since his debut. His goal scoring, even in his best seasons, comes in patches and his dribbling & decision making can leave a lot to be desired at times. However, I do not believe in the assertion that he is lazy or doesn't want to put a shift in or whatever consistently. I am sure there is a reason his drop-offs have been after seasons in which he has been overworked and overused. 'Tiredness', can be an excuse for someone who is expected to make sprints at full pelt chasing the ball in a counter-attacking set-up for an entire season playing 50+ games.
I am not ready to let Rashford go, especially without knowing that we are getting another top notch replacement who is equally or more productive than he has been over a significant period of time. So, someone please provide the comparison. Thanks.
I’d be absolutely fine with that
Re.the bit in bold, I'm not sure you do.
Rashford has chronic issues in:
- workrate
- build up play
- professionalism (two occasions here in the last year)
- form
He is also a severely limited player system wise. He suits a counter attacking approach which is the bulk of his contributions. However he is ill suited to a progressive style of play since he can only come alive when he's running into space and not double marked. For such a limited player at 26, we should be counting our lucky stars for a potential big offer.
But he has triple the assists. We'd be better off getting someone who provides and invest in another forward. Only Arsenal rely on their wide players for goals and we still say they need a striker to win the league.
I don't think we need to directly replace them, in the same way I said Spurs will be a better side when Kane left. We need to be a better team and Rashford is not a team player, so even if he scores a loads, his slack has to be picked up by the rest of the team and now he's not even scoring.
80m and Xavi Simons and you've got yourself a deal!
We shouldn’t be hesistating over selling him based on his poster boy status. Ferguson didn’t give a feck when he ousted Beckham twenty years ago and we didn’t look back quite frankly.
I thought our boast as a club was we make the stars… so let’s ‘make’ the likes of Mainoo, Garnacho and Hojlund the new stars.
Even if we kept him and we hypothetically bought direct replacements for Martial, Sancho and whoever else should go, they outperform him and then we’re stuck with a £300k a week sub with years on his contract. No-ones touching him then. I feel it’s a good time to cash in on him this summer if possible.
He gives off that feeling he’s going to be completely retired from football by 30. He seems driven by the perks of being a football player rather than being a football player, and once he’s accumulated enough money he’s just going to live off that and do his own thing of socialising and partying in glamorous places.
I thought our boast as a club was we make the stars… so let’s ‘make’ the likes of Mainoo, Garnacho and Hojlund the new stars.
Even if we kept him and we hypothetically bought direct replacements for Martial, Sancho and whoever else should go, they outperform him and then we’re stuck with a £300k a week sub with years on his contract. No-ones touching him then. I feel it’s a good time to cash in on him this summer if possible.
He gives off that feeling he’s going to be completely retired from football by 30. He seems driven by the perks of being a football player rather than being a football player, and once he’s accumulated enough money he’s just going to live off that and do his own thing of socialising and partying in glamorous places.
Yikes!
Rashford has played under 5 managers in the last 9 seasons, I haven't heard or read one complain about his commitment and professionalism. Where did you hear that? Does that regularly come up in your nightly conversations before bed with Ten Hag? You read/heard about it somewhere? Or did you make it up?
Also, why would ETH play him if it was true when he is such a stickler for professionalism and had no issues sending Sancho to the gallows?
In professional sports, player form goes up and down. No one, besides may be a few superhuman exceptions, can maintain the same consistency game after game for season after season. Form for most player fluctuates from time to time is never a constant. Sometimes form can also fluctuate when a player is asked to move around positions and is played in a position which his game is not the most suited to. Which happens a lot with Rashford as we keep spending huge money on RW duds and due to our inability to get a proper striker since RVP.
No one was questioning his work-rate when he was banging them in last season. He was played relentlessly throughout last season and his form & consistency has suffered due to that this season. That is the reason I pointed out in my post about his drop in performances after the two 55+ game seasons.
Good news then, as we play counter-attacking football! Or do you want ETH sacked and would prefer if we go for another manager?
I actually don't think his game is not suited for progressive style of play. He came unto the scene under Van Gaal, who played a more possession based approach. Also, I cannot see a reason why he won't excel under a Klopp or a Arteta, when players like Diaz and Martinelli can succeed under those managers.
For me, our best periods post-SAF have been when Marcus had been on form.
From a footballing perspective, we have to consider any offer for this guy. He's not interested in playing for the club so ship him out. Hopefully PSG will come up with the funds.
In the last year publically we know he has been dropped in a match for poor punctuality, and fined two weeks wages for being on a bender in Belfast the night before training. The Athletic said there are other issues not made public.
So yes, I think he does have commitment and professionalism issues.
Because sancho spoke out publically and undermined the manager. It's worth noting Ten Hag did drop Rashford for some games this season because he was poor. He's getting better of late but therein lies the problem - he is terribly inconsistent.
Again false. There were many mentions of his lack of work rate but it was more than accepted as he could score. As long as he scores goals the limitations are palatable. If he's not scoring though, he's also not working and it's obvious. This is the 2ns season in the last 3 he's having a poor time.
No chance that's remotely standards of a United attacker at 26 year old.
Ten Hag does not want to implement counter attack football long term. He doesn't even want that now but a lot of our attacks happen to be counters, which I accept. Worth noting Rashford is still broadly quite shite at them. There's also no chance our owners will accept sit back and counter football as a plan A for much longer, so irrespective of the manager Rashfords limitations will just be more exposed.
The players you named are far more polished, in first touch, press resistance, decision making and dribbling. Rashford actually lacks in these areas.
Agree entirely. Have said from the start that I’ll judge them on what they do with Rashford.
he’ll either continue being the home grown poster boy or we’ll get serious about having effective players and see him out the door.
we’ve lost Stam, Beckham, Ronaldo, Ruud etc…there’s no reason we can’t survive and thrive after selling Rashford
While thats obviously true, he’s never actually been the best player during those good spells. In lockdown Martial and Greenwood were better. For Ole, Martial and Pogba were better. For Mourinho Ibra and Pogba were also better. Last season was the only time he’s been our “best” player but we didn’t play great stuff back then and even that aside I’d argue Bruno, Casa and Martinez were more influential to our good football spells.
I don’t get this impression at all.
He’s a streaky player who struggles to perform when his confidence is low, and he has cut a frustrated figure in the last few seasons but it seems unfair to say he doesn’t love football. I’m confident he’d love to win a league with United, he’s been a red all his live.
Attackers are generally on form when we have our best periods. That's not Rashford specific.
I also think our best period was Jose season 2, I think it might have been Lukaku or Zlatan smashing it that season. 80 something points and pretty ruthless.
Yeah I did have Bruno in mind too when I posted that, but obviously this is a thread about Marcus.
Must have been Zlatan. The only thing Lukaku was smashing was the poor guys sat in row Z
It was Lukaku. Zlatan did his ACL in Jose’s season 1 and spent most of the next season recuperating before moving on.Yeah I did have Bruno in mind too when I posted that, but obviously this is a thread about Marcus.
Must have been Zlatan. The only thing Lukaku was smashing was the poor guys sat in row Z
Lukaku hit pretty much the same goal tally as Zlatan in season 1. He was a machine.Yeah I did have Bruno in mind too when I posted that, but obviously this is a thread about Marcus.
Must have been Zlatan. The only thing Lukaku was smashing was the poor guys sat in row Z
Really? That would be shocking business by the club. 50m gets you nothing these days.
How much did McAllister, Lisandro Martinez Luis Diaz and Cole Palmer cost?
I can point to loads of absolute crap that went for 50m but I can't be arsed. 50m for Rashford would be daylight robbery by PSG, come on!
Yes the point is that 50m can get you a really good starting 11 footballer (which Rashford isn’t himself). If we have any intention of becoming a great side again then we have to aim to get bang for our buck rather than “absolute crap”.
Anyhoo if people think we should get more for him than great but I personally would not mind him going for 50m as I don’t rate him highly.
Because he slept in once, and because of the Belfast/illness thing? That really strikes you as ‘chronic’?!
Id doubt there is a poster on this forum who hasn’t at some point been late to work after an alarm didn’t go off etc or thrown a sicky - especially an alcohol related one.
Both times he’s accepted he did wrong, took his punishment and came back to score when he was included in the team again.
I doubt they have the balls to sell a youth player and a poster boy. Fergie kicked out Becks, Keane, etc., and that is how you progress and keep a certain standard up (and create a specific performance culture). I would try to sell him but the club will be hesitant imo
The day Manchester United is free from Rashford is my favourite footballing day since winning the league in 2013.
Players, like other humans, can have lapses of judgement and are prone to stupid things. That doesn't mean that a player has "Chronic professionalism issues". Even Scholes had an incident or two with Sir Alex where he acted like a dick, but no one claims that Scholes was not a professional. I remember one season when Rooney was dropped in a crucial holiday fixture when he went out partying or something. But that one incident didn't define Rooney's professional career.
So, you can be unprofessional as long as you don't speak out publicly. New information but point taken.
Terribly inconsistent as in? He has been dropped prior to this season because of similar issues. Again, new information.
Again, like I mentioned, both the down seasons have come after he was overworked in the previous seasons. Imo, that definitely has played a part. He also has had three 20+ goals seasons in the last 5 (with this one still to end).
He doesn't want it now when he himself said he wants us to be the "best transition team in the world", which is just a fancy way of describing counter-attacking football. What is counter-attacking if not speedily transitioning from the defensive phase to the attacking phase? Counter-attacking doesn't mean just sitting back, absorbing pressure and then hoofing it to your front men.
Every team, either transition or possession based, need players who can run in behind and keep the defenses honest. And that is one of Rashford's featured attributes, and the reason why he would excel in any set-up. He has the speed and his dribbling to really hurt the opposition.
Diaz and Martinelli are far more polished players than Rashford? You sure about that because that is not remotely true. Rashford has a very good touch. He has quick feet and is a good dribbler. Also, saying that either of those players have better decision making is surely a joke.
That’s just not true. Liverpool have four wide players over 10 goals for the season, City have Foden, Alverez and Bernardo who all play around Haaland and offer a lot more than three goals a season. Villa too. All of those teams have strikers scoring a lot of goals. I’m not saying Williams can’t offer more, but if he put up numbers like that in the Premier League, it won’t get us anywhere near where we need to be. They’re the kind of numbers you want from a midfielder.
The team tactics and structure is far more of an issue than any individual talent and until that’s addressed, I don’t really think it’s worth spending big money. I’m positive that’s how Ineos are thinking anyway. Midfield, left back, centre back and back up striker will all need heavy investment, I don’t see us going for a top left winger.
I heard with a certain interest what the Stretford Paddock guys said on the matter. Unsurprisingly they weren't exactly thrilled of Rashford going. Yet strangely enough the arguments they put forward kind of strengthens the idea that he should
a- we aren't able to replace him correctly. Well that's the reason why we're changing the whole staff isn't it? Haven't we learnt anything from keeping players way past their time?
b- Rashford would do well if he's surrounded by top players with the right attitude but he can't drag us to success on his own like a Salah would do. While its true that this is a team game its also true that he is a senior player with 300k a week. If he can't keep himself motivated with that and he can't do well even in a struggling side then he's outpriced himself out of United.
a- we aren't able to replace him correctly. Well that's the reason why we're changing the whole staff isn't it? Haven't we learnt anything from keeping players way past their time?
b- Rashford would do well if he's surrounded by top players with the right attitude but he can't drag us to success on his own like a Salah would do. While its true that this is a team game its also true that he is a senior player with 300k a week. If he can't keep himself motivated with that and he can't do well even in a struggling side then he's outpriced himself out of United.
So if you have a player who can produce 30-40GA if surrounded by good players, your solution is to sell that player, rather than buy the good players who will help make us a better team?
Whether you think he’s worth that or not it’s about time we started commanding top money for our players. Other clubs regularly ask for ridiculous fees for theirs and a lot of the time get their way, usually due to incompetent clubs like ours bowing to their demands. We’ve been mugged off in the market consistently for the last 10yrs, hopefully that ends now under the INEOS regime.£100m
Yeah I agree and I think getting a decent fee for Greenwood (which is maybe what Murtough was working on in Spain recently) will forgo any transfer saga with Rashford.
To who? Did we reject a 90m bid for Pogba?
Hmm ok maybe with Jota and Salah, but I am classifying Nunez as a striker - Diaz isn't a 10+ goal a season wide player. Alvarez similar to Nunez and Bernardo is sitting on a whopping 6 goals and 4 assists and Foden has only just become that, no reason someone like Garnacho couldn't be. I would prefer we buy an Alvarez or a Jota + Williams, than keep Rashford.
That's what I'm saying though and the best chance of addressing that will be selling assets that seriously impact FFP. That has to be player like Rashford, Greenwood, Scott and fully amortized transfers.
Look, if PSG feel Rashford could be the man to replace Mbappe, then 100 million should be what it takes. If they rate him that high, they will pay that.
The Pogba mistake is a brilliant comparison. Before covid we could have got top dollar, but kept him for commercial reasons. And here we are again, with an inferior player