Marriage equality postal survey (not an actual plebiscite or referendum)

[Wibble]

Due to a bizarre political sandoff between the right and left of the Liberal party who only hold a 1 seat majority we are currently undertaking a A$122m non-binding postal survey on the question of marriage equality.

It looks like there will be a decent majority for yes that the Libs may well then ignore anyway.

However, the only light at the end of the tunnel is that the department running the survey didn't limit the barcode option identifying each unique form. This resulted.

 

[Jippy]

I read about that earlier.

My sis-in-law is voting yes, her hubby no, fwiw. Didn't realise it was non-binding.

 

[Wibble]

Not only is it non-binding, it isn't even a vote.

The government are in trouble on the issue. They wanted to avoid a free vote in parliament because the far right of the ruling party openly hate the usual things gays/non-whites/non-christians etc. and would get rid of their useless but moderate leader. They wanted a plebiscite but the senate blocked it so they decided to do this farce of a pretend referendum instead. A$122 mill for feck all.

The yes vote seems likely to win so we may get a private members bill before the next election. Maybe.

 

[Wibble]

her hubby no

I haven't met anyone who is voting no. Then again nobody ever voted for Maggie Thatcher.

 

[JustAFan]

Due to a bizarre political sandoff between the right and left of the Liberal party who only hold a 1 seat majority we are currently undertaking a A$122m non-binding postal survey on the question of marriage equality.

It looks like there will be a decent majority for yes that the Libs may well then ignore anyway.

However, the only light at the end of the tunnel is that the department running the survey didn't limit the barcode option identifying each unique form. This resulted.

complete by chance accident or did someone tamper with the UPC program to get that to show up?

 

[Jippy]

I haven't met anyone who is voting no. Then again nobody ever voted for Maggie Thatcher.

The wife and I are at the in-laws in Mauritius and my wife's sister, hubby and kid are over- they live in Perth. The sis was saying to her mum, what if your grandson is gay and she replied NO, he is normal.
The in-laws are lovely hindu, spiritual, teetotal and vegan people, but wow, they still have deep prejudices that genuinely surprised me.

My gran had pictures of Maggie and Diana on her living room wall. She was like a physical embodiment of the Daily Mail. Just needed a property price chart on the fridge door to complete the trinity.

 

[Jippy]

Oh, and what's the point of this referendum if it's non-binding and the government is too weak to push it through? How would you get in this position. Will result in negative publicity whichever way it goes by the sound of it.

 

[Wibble]

Oh, and what's the point of this referendum if it's non-binding and the government is too weak to push it through? How would you get in this position. Will result in negative publicity whichever way it goes by the sound of it.

The government promised a plebescite on the issue at the last election that nobody wanted and got voted down by the senate, so they want to say they carry out their promises despite their disastetous record on getting anything done.

The real reason is that a minority of very far right MPs would push for a leadership spill and Turnbull is very vulnerable so it is worth A$122 million to keep his job. Hopefully this will all result in a free vote on a private members bill but that is far from certain.

 

[Wibble]

My gran had pictures of Maggie and Diana on her living room wall. She was like a physical embodiment of the Daily Mail. Just needed a property price chart on the fridge door to complete the trinity.

My folks were the lite version of that although more through habit than anything else. After moving to Australia they stopped going to church and even voted Labor in tbe last election before they died. Although in retrospect it was probably a sign of the onset of Alzheimers.

 

[Jippy]

The government promised a plebescite on the issue at the last election that nobody wanted and got voted down by the senate, so they want to say they carry out their promises despite their disastetous record on getting anything done.

The real reason is that a minority of very far right MPs would push for a leadership spill and Turnbull is very vulnerable so it is worth A$122 million to keep his job. Hopefully this will all result in a free vote on a private members bill but that is far from certain.

Kind of sounds like Cameron pandering to the right with his referendum gamble. You think it would get through on a free vote. If it did in Ireland, you'd hope it would in Oz.

My folks were the lite version of that although more through habit than anything else. After moving to Australia they stopped going to church and even voted Labor in tbe last election before they died. Although in retrospect it was probably a sign of the onset of Alzheimers.

Not sure whether to laugh at that last bit or not. My gran was a divisive character it's fair to say and she defo didn't have a late life leftist epiphany.

 

[Wibble]

Kind of sounds like Cameron pandering to the right with his referendum gamble. You think it would get through on a free vote. If it did in Ireland, you'd hope it would in Oz.

It would easily.

Not sure whether to laugh at that last bit or not. My gran was a divisive character it's fair to say and she defo didn't have a late life leftist epiphany.

Laugh for sure. Alzheimers is a evil fecker so you have to take the laughs when they are there. One that still makes me laugh is my Mum heckling me during my Dad's funeral.

 

[Wibble]

complete by chance accident or did someone tamper with the UPC program to get that to show up?

Random. They forgot to set the program to exclude dodgy words.

 

[Wibble]

The big fuss is now that Tony Abbott (the second or third biggest twat in Australian politics - which is saying something) got headbutted by a yes campaigner. No actual mark was visible but it looks like for once Abbott was making it u as he went along. It turns out that the bloke wasn't a yes campaigner but happened to have a yes sticker. In fact he was just a bit pissed and hates Tony Abbott. I despise violenece but we have all been there.

https://www.theguardian.com/austral...arged-over-allegedly-head-butting-tony-abbott

2 quality quotes from his attacker.

“It was nothing really remotely to do with that. It’s just about Tony Abbott — the fecking worm that he is,”

“All it was is I saw Tony Abbott and I’d had half a skinful and I wanted to nut the cnut.”

The Guardian didn't censure the swear words either

 

[Kentonio]

“If I see an opportunity to improve my life and those around me by nutting Tony Abbott, I’m a pretty pragmatic guy.”

 

[Smores]

“If I see an opportunity to improve my life and those around me by nutting Tony Abbott, I’m a pretty pragmatic guy.”

Thats quality

 

[sullydnl]

“If I see an opportunity to improve my life and those around me by nutting Tony Abbott, I’m a pretty pragmatic guy.”

 

[Jippy]

Amazing quote.

 

[Wibble]

We are now getting the knuckledraggers out and about. Swastikas sprayed on gay people's houses and a big upsurge in public abuse. Not pretty and exactly what people were concerned about when the Government pushed this through.

 

[Wibble]

Interesting article about why the Australian right are so homophobic

https://www.theguardian.com/comment...n-its-colonial-past?CMP=Share_AndroidApp_Memo

 

[jojojo]

So I had to bump this thread to celebrate the fact that Australians did indeed vote to legalise gay marriage. With 61.6% in favour and 80% of the population voting. The Aussie parliament are now going through the process of creating the law to put it into operation.

However, of course, the real reason I'm here is because of a video. Just in case anyone missed it. A no vote campaigner Aussie politician handling the result as well as he could.

 

[711]

I'm amazed at an 80% turnout. I wonder how much being postal had to do with that? I know post is an option in UK elections, but maybe if everyone were sent a voting paper automatically, and it became the default method, people would feel more involved?

 

[Kentonio]

I'm amazed at an 80% turnout. I wonder how much being postal had to do with that? I know post is an option in UK elections, but maybe if everyone were sent a voting paper automatically, and it became the default method, people would feel more involved?

Isn't voting in general elections mandatory in Australia? They probably are just used to turning out to vote.

 

[711]

Isn't voting in general elections mandatory in Australia? They probably are just used to turning out to vote.

Ah right, I'd forgotten that. It's not something I've supported in the past, as I've only heard it put forward by losers in the usual 'blame the referee' way, but I'm always willing to change my mind on things.

 

[Kentonio]

Ah right, I'd forgotten that. It's not something I've supported in the past, as I've only heard it put forward by losers in the usual 'blame the referee' way, but I'm always willing to change my mind on things.

I'm torn on it. If it leads to a more politically engaged public then it sounds good, but I worry it might just lead to millions of people turning up and ticking a box they were propagandized into favouring. Obviously this happens anyway, but not sure it's a good idea when a lot of people are only voting because they have to.

 

[Blatzo]

So they promised to put the decision to citizens

Put the decision to citizens

And are acting on the result...?

That doesn't sound like politics to me!!

 

[711]

Same here.

I'm torn on it. If it leads to a more politically engaged public then it sounds good, but I worry it might just lead to millions of people turning up and ticking a box they were propagandized into favouring. Obviously this happens anyway, but not sure it's a good idea when a lot of people are only voting because they have to.

We're all propagandized one or another though, aren't we? Obviously rich press owners have undue influence, but might not widening political interest counter that somewhat?

 

[Wibble]

So they promised to put the decision to citizens

Put the decision to citizens

And are acting on the result...?

That doesn't sound like politics to me!!

Well actually they promised a plebescite (in effect a referendum) that nobody apart from some right wing nutjobs wanted because they knew a free vote would fly through the parliament. When this was voted down in the senate they took $122m and threw it away of an anonymous, non-compulsory survey (voting is compulsory in Australia) which opened us up to weeks of hateful "debate" that descended to exactly the depths that you would expect. After the survey showed over 60% approved of SSM we have then been subjected to more hateful "debate" in parliament which has been an excuse for the far right to try to legalise discrimination in the bill (thankfully all of the amendments have been voted down now). SSM was finally passed this afternoon with only 4 votes against in the end, but what it has opened up is a huge push by the far right to introduce new "freedom of religion" legislation that will be an even more destructive event next year.

In summary we finally have SSM and right wing politicians are even more bigoted than before.

 

[Wibble]

I'm amazed at an 80% turnout. I wonder how much being postal had to do with that? I know post is an option in UK elections, but maybe if everyone were sent a voting paper automatically, and it became the default method, people would feel more involved?

It was a huge turnout. I guess we are in the habit of voting as it is compulsory so despite this not being a vote I think there was a carry over by habit. That said there was a huge wave of support for SSM here.

 

[buchansleftleg]

Has anyone rescued that poor man that keeps getting attacked by crocodiles?

 

[Wibble]

So I had to bump this thread to celebrate the fact that Australians did indeed vote to legalise gay marriage. With 61.6% in favour and 80% of the population voting. The Aussie parliament are now going through the process of creating the law to put it into operation.

However, of course, the real reason I'm here is because of a video. Just in case anyone missed it. A no vote campaigner Aussie politician handling the result as well as he could.

Katter is an utter twat. Some gems from him in today's "debate".

“We have a history of being picked on in a big way,” Katter said.

“Please excuse me for being a little paranoid today and extremely worried.”

Katter then went on to explain something about how boys are told they “have to go to school dressed up as a girl”.

“Mr Speaker, I repeat for the third time, every single effort to protect religious freedom has been denigrated today,” he said.

“I would like to ask the Christians in Australia to remember not one time did the parliament protect them today.”


and then


Katter said the debate “makes no difference as far as I can see to anything”.

“L-G-B-Ts, whatever the hell it is ... I have no idea what it is ... you’ll probably change it,” Katter said.

“I refuse to use the word g-a-y.”

The member for Kennedy’s comments came as he expressed confusion as to why people in same-sex relationships want to use the term ‘marriage’.

He said gay people have “an inflated opinion” of themselves and that “the rest of the world would agree”. He then accused the LGBTI community of stealing the word “gay” before reading out the alternative definition of the word: ‘Beautiful, light, happy and ethereal”.

To which the gallery started cheering.

“They are proud of it,” a bemused Katter responded.

“I would be embarrassed to go around calling myself all these wonderful adjectives.”

“They took the word gay off us ... now they’re taking the word marriage off us.”

Katter asked the speaker to “shut them up please” in reference to the “happy clappers” in the public gallery.

And it isn't like this is the worst things he has said.

Last week he went on a rant about gays deliberately killing 72 children with AIDS and seemed to suggest that gays were genetically more likely to commit crime including serial murder. The bloke is a dangerous crackpot.

 

[Javi]

I guess we are in the habit of voting as it is compulsory so despite this not being a vote I think there was a carry over by habit.

What happens if you don't show up?

 

[Wibble]

What happens if you don't show up?

A small fine. In most states and federal elections I think it is $20 for a first offence and $50 for a second.

And of course you aren't actually forced to vote. You are forced to turn up to vote. If you then don't mark the paper or spoil your ballot paper in some way that is perfectly legal.

 

[Wibble]

IMO compulsory voting is brilliant in that it stops most people being lazy but doesn't actually force you to vote.

We typically get 95% turnout.

 

[Red_toad]

IMO compulsory voting is brilliant in that it stops most people being lazy but doesn't actually force you to vote.

We typically get 95% turnout.

Shame people vote for shockingly poor politicians, who bring in policies that don’t make life better for the majority of voters.

 

[Wibble]

That is a separate issue. The current state of Australian politics is shockingly bad. The right and far right are currently in control and are frequently a moral free zone. A week doesn't go by without my government doing something that makes me sick to my stomach.

The left are better but are also far from my ideal. Too willing to compromise on principle for political gain.

 

[Neutral]

Christians in Australia...Like anyone gives a fcuk about religion in Australia or Australian politics - of course the right wing and fringe groups will always look towards what the christian fundamentalists have done in the US and will attempt to incorporate bits and pieces into Australian politics.

In the same way...Pauline Hanson, far right groups in the UK/Europe and even the US - exult over each others accomplishments.

 

[crappycraperson]

“They took the word gay off us ... now they’re taking the word marriage off us.”

 

[Wibble]

Christians in Australia...Like anyone gives a fcuk about religion Australia or Australian politics - of course the right wing and fringe groups will always look towards what the christian fundamentalists have done in the US and will attempt to incorporate bits and piece into Australian politics.

In the same way...Pauline Hanson, far right groups in the UK/Europe and even the US - exult over each others accomplishments.

One Nation will again implode before too long, in fact they seem to have already started the slide into obscurity again. People like Peter Dutton, who has actually has power and enjoys putting brown people in 3rd world gulags to be murdered, sexually assaulted, have existing mental health issues escalated to the point of suicide and murdered, concerns me far more.

 

[Red_toad]

One Nation will again implode before too long, in fact they seem to have already started the slide into obscurity again. People like Peter Dutton, who has actually has power and enjoys putting brown people in 3rd world gulags to be murdered, sexually assaulted, have existing mental health issues escalated to the point of suicide and murdered, concerns me far more.

How do you know he enjoys it & aren’t these poor people the ones who are committing crimes against each other.

 

[Wibble]

Where did I say he enjoys it. Although it wouldn't surprise me.

And talk about victim blaming.

You put a bunch of already traumatised refugees into a third world gualg where the guards, the local population and police attack and brutalise and kill them, where they are held in indefinite detention on the orders of the Australian government in contravention of the Geneva convention, children are allowed to mix with mentally ill and traumatised male detainees, rape victims, pregnant women and the seriously ill are denied proper medical treatment, families are told that they must separate permanently if any of them want relocating to other countries and suicidal refugees are allowed to kill themselves, and it the refugees at fault? Get grip. We are going what Trump dreams off in his wet dreams.

Dutton looks like he will get a promotion to keep the far right of the Lib/Nats happy. What he should get is a trial in the Hague.