Mason Greenwood | Please be respectful and stay on topic

LDUred

Full Member
Joined
Oct 7, 2019
Messages
1,827
We've had players sail close to the wind before (Cantona and Ferndinand spring to mind), but there's always been an underlying narrative that they were hard done by (Cantona was racially abused, Ferdinand simply forgot his test), so the club has been morally vindicated in standing by the player.

That's not the case here. Greenwood did wrong, and the damage done is irreversible. There's no positive, redeeming, or justifiable slant that you can put on it.
 

Shark

@NotShark
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
26,438
Location
Ireland
We've had players sail close to the wind before (Cantona and Ferndinand spring to mind), but there's always been an underlying narrative that they were hard done by (Cantona was racially abused, Ferdinand simply forgot his test), so the club has been morally vindicated in standing by the player.

That's not the case here. Greenwood did wrong, and the damage done is irreversible. There's no positive, redeeming, or justifiable slant that you can put on it.
He also never addmited to any wrongdoing. If he at least came out and said that he's working on become a better human being, through therapy or whatever else, it could have at least helped his case slightly, but he comes across as an arrogant person who's just glad he wasn't jailed.
 

cafecillos

Full Member
Joined
Aug 20, 2014
Messages
1,403
Not really as it's just a snippet. I tend to look at things In my professional manner and that isn't always helpful.
That's exactly what many in the we shouldn't speculate camp can't stop speculating about. Until we know what that was a snippet of, the only non-speculative approach is to go by what we actually saw and heard.

Also, if that was a snippet of something even remotely harmless, there absolutely no fecking chance whatsoever they wouldn't have at the very least leaked part of it either in the original format or as some sort of summary or transcript or whatever. All the mystery around the whole thing is very suspicious and the silence is deafening. The most likely explanation though is that there's actually no mystery, and that the silence is due to the fact they have nothing to say to make things better except a statement that was 100% corporate waffle. The most likely explanation is that what we saw and heard is sadly what happened.
 

Pickle85

Full Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
6,437
That's exactly what many in the we shouldn't speculate camp can't stop speculating about. Until we know what that was a snippet of, the only non-speculative approach is to go by what we actually saw and heard.

Also, if that was a snippet of something even remotely harmless, there absolutely no fecking chance whatsoever they wouldn't have at the very least leaked part of it either in the original format or as some sort of summary or transcript or whatever. All the mystery around the whole thing is very suspicious and the silence is deafening. The most likely explanation though is that there's actually no mystery, and that the silence is due to the fact they have nothing to say to make things better except a statement that was 100% corporate waffle. The most likely explanation is that what we saw and heard is sadly what happened.
This is a point that's been so frustrating in this thread. 'Don't speculate (but also don't judge on the audio and video evidence as there may be something exculpatory that we haven't seen). The argument twists and morphs at the posters' convenience.
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
130,079
Location
Hollywood CA
He also never addmited to any wrongdoing. If he at least came out and said that he's working on become a better human being, through therapy or whatever else, it could have at least helped his case slightly, but he comes across as an arrogant person who's just glad he wasn't jailed.
Agreed. It would've been immensely helpful for his situation from a public perspective, if he came out with something conciliatory that expressed regret or remorse. Although from a legal perspective, I'm pretty sure his legal reps would've pushed back on such an idea if they thought he was either innocent or sufficiently culpable such that any public remarks expressing remorse could be received in legal circles as a tacit admission of something for which he is presently not charged.
 

LawCharltonBest

Enjoys watching fox porn
Joined
May 17, 2012
Messages
15,023
Location
Salford
Suppose it's neither here nor there - but are United/INEOS doing the re-review now, or at the end of the season when Greenwood is presumably back in England?
 

Dion

Full Member
Joined
Mar 18, 2010
Messages
4,336
Says I’m not doing this anymore then proceed to have a dig. Right.
Anyway, I’d strongly advise reading up the below subjects for general improvement on knowledge.
- Bail
- Custody procedures
- Remand applications
- Pace clock
- Law in general
- CPS charging standards

Good day indeed.
Sorry, but like I said, I'm not engaging with you anymore. I've explained the reasons why I disagree with your original argument and why I don't believe continuing to converse with you is a reasonable course of action quite fully already.

I'm more than happy to let others judge the merits of the argument as they were made at the time.
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
130,079
Location
Hollywood CA
Suppose it's neither here nor there - but are United/INEOS doing the re-review now, or at the end of the season when Greenwood is presumably back in England?
My guess is they are already testing the waters about a potential sale to see if there are any clubs who meet their valuation (which I'm assuming is about 50m). If they can't find a buying club that meets their valuation then he's probably coming back imo.
 

Gandalf

Full Member
Joined
Aug 9, 2018
Messages
4,768
Location
Alabama but always Wales in my heart
My guess is they are already testing the waters about a potential sale to see if there are any clubs who meet their valuation (which I'm assuming is about 50m). If they can't find a buying club that meets their valuation then he's probably coming back imo.
I would be very surprised if that was the case. We might have a valuation we would like to meet but at the end of the day we also have PSR issues and any fee from Mason is straight profit as an academy graduate. Following the initial disclosures he was dropped by his personal sponsors, if he returns I would imagine some of the clubs sponsorship deals would come under threat as they will not want to be associated with the massive wave of negative publicity that will certainly follow.

Taking a purely dispassionate view of this the club is looking at either banking a transfer fee for an asset that cost them nothing or potentially losing millions in existing and potential sponsorship and media deals. I don't know of any serious business that would choose the latter option regardless of their views on him as a footballer.
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
130,079
Location
Hollywood CA
I would be very surprised if that was the case. We might have a valuation we would like to meet but at the end of the day we also have PSR issues and any fee from Mason is straight profit as an academy graduate. Following the initial disclosures he was dropped by his personal sponsors, if he returns I would imagine some of the clubs sponsorship deals would come under threat as they will not want to be associated with the massive wave of negative publicity that will certainly follow.

Taking a purely dispassionate view of this the club is looking at either banking a transfer fee for an asset that cost them nothing or potentially losing millions in existing and potential sponsorship and media deals. I don't know of any serious business that would choose the latter option regardless of their views on him as a footballer.
That's possible, but I would doubt any club sponsorship deal would be under any threat given that the club already attempted to bring him back once during a period of significantly more scrutiny than there would be if he returned this summer. If he's sold, it will be because there's a buyer who meets the clubs valuation of the player. The club doesn't have to sell him as they could just as well sell any combination of Sancho, Pellistri, Amad or the like for significantly more profit. If he returns, its because SJR has made the assessment he wants to give him another chance.
 

Shark

@NotShark
Joined
Feb 1, 2012
Messages
26,438
Location
Ireland
Agreed. It would've been immensely helpful for his situation from a public perspective, if he came out with something conciliatory that expressed regret or remorse. Although from a legal perspective, I'm pretty sure his legal reps would've pushed back on such an idea if they thought he was either innocent or sufficiently culpable such that any public remarks expressing remorse could be received in legal circles as a tacit admission of something for which he is presently not charged.
I would understand that angle more if there wasn't photo evidence, and recordings. He obviously did do something truly evil. Rather one piece of evidence is worse than the other, it's out there for all to see at any given moment.
 
Last edited:

parmenio

New Member
Newbie
Joined
Aug 8, 2023
Messages
227
€50m seems to be the figure most reported on. Cannot see him back. But then again I cannot see ETH being our manager at the start of next season. Maybe I’m just too optimistic for sure. Then again I also think City will finally be punished for the 115 outstanding charges.
 

AFC NimbleThumb

New Member
Joined
Apr 21, 2019
Messages
8,363
Agreed. It would've been immensely helpful for his situation from a public perspective, if he came out with something conciliatory that expressed regret or remorse. Although from a legal perspective, I'm pretty sure his legal reps would've pushed back on such an idea if they thought he was either innocent or sufficiently culpable such that any public remarks expressing remorse could be received in legal circles as a tacit admission of something for which he is presently not charged.
Helpful to who? There were plenty on here from the moment the images/audio were released saying they didn’t want him playing for the club again.

He went from reintegration to Spain in hours. There would have likely been some roll out had he come back but once fans made it clear they didn’t want him here they lost all right to seek explanation/apology.

He’s made amends with his girlfriend & will be leaving, whichever fanbase he belongs to next won’t be seeking anything other than his talents. Explanation went out the window with redemption.

Had he apologised it would have been called disingenuous & from a legal perspective apologising for a crime you weren’t convicted of creates more issues.
 

Wibble

In Gadus Speramus
Staff
Joined
Jun 15, 2000
Messages
88,802
Location
Centreback
Not really as it's just a snippet. I tend to look at things In my professional manner and that isn't always helpful.
We aren't discussing legal/criminal matters. We are talking about is he the sort of person we want associated with United. And given he hasn't even attempted to explain his behaviour away is very telling. If he were an employee of anywhere I work he would have been sacked for bringing the company into disrepute, but of course nobody in a normal workplaces can be sold for serious cash. So ...
 

Widow

Full Member
Joined
Oct 13, 2020
Messages
7,058
Location
Can't spell Mkhitaryan
We aren't discussing legal/criminal matters. We are talking about is he the sort of person we want associated with United. And given he hasn't even attempted to explain his behaviour away is very telling. If he were an employee of anywhere I work he would have been sacked for bringing the company into disrepute, but of course nobody in a normal workplaces can be sold for serious cash. So ...
As I mentioned, that's my problem, I can't watch Vera these days without thinking that wouldn't happen or that's not how it's done. Drives the wife bonkers!
 

Wibble

In Gadus Speramus
Staff
Joined
Jun 15, 2000
Messages
88,802
Location
Centreback
As I mentioned, that's my problem, I can't watch Vera these days without thinking that wouldn't happen or that's not how it's done. Drives the wife bonkers!
I can entirely get that in a slightly different context
 

bosskeano

Full Member
Joined
Dec 8, 2020
Messages
5,117
he's worth more than €50m but that and more would go along way towards FFP due to his status of being a homegrown player
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
130,079
Location
Hollywood CA
Who is reporting 50 m? I'm not calling you out, just curious.
Its the generally accepted rate being picked up by most of the websites and podcasts that create content based on what is being discussed on Twitter and elsewhere. The fee itself is apparently sourced to Atletico Madrid allegedly rejecting a £50m fee.
 

NinjaZombie

Punched the air when Liverpool beat City
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
10,134
I know transfer fees depends on situations and circumstances but we had to pay 70m for Hojlund. Anyone who is getting Greenwood for 50m is getting a bargain.
 

Wibble

In Gadus Speramus
Staff
Joined
Jun 15, 2000
Messages
88,802
Location
Centreback
I know transfer fees depends on situations and circumstances but we had to pay 70m for Hojlund. Anyone who is getting Greenwood for 50m is getting a bargain.
A bit like someone complaining that a mint low mileage Cayman PDK is being sold for more than their Cayman S PDK that has been involved in a serious crash.
 

Wibble

In Gadus Speramus
Staff
Joined
Jun 15, 2000
Messages
88,802
Location
Centreback
Its the generally accepted rate being picked up by most of the websites and podcasts that create content based on what is being discussed on Twitter and elsewhere. The fee itself is apparently sourced to Atletico Madrid allegedly rejecting a £50m fee.
Utterly mental if true. If we could get that sort of fee I imagine we'd be hoping to sell ASAP before the buyer changes their mind.
 

Raoul

Admin
Staff
Joined
Aug 14, 1999
Messages
130,079
Location
Hollywood CA
£50m wouldn’t surprise me.

Before what happened happened he would have been considered unsellable and one of the best young forwards in Europe.
Agreed. The only reason it would be as low as 50m in the present is because the buying club would take on the risk of disruptive media scrutiny (not guaranteed, but possible), which would lower the fee for many. If not for any of this, he would be a 100m player imo.
 

BenitoSTARR

One Minute Man
Scout
Joined
Sep 1, 2015
Messages
13,198
Agreed. The only reason it would be as low as 50m in the present is because the buying club would take on the risk of disruptive media scrutiny (not guaranteed, but possible), which would lower the fee for many. If not for any of this, he would be a 100m player imo.
Agreed. Any other conditions and if we were selling him you’re looking at Bellingham fees.
 

Leftback99

Might have a bedwetting fetish.
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
14,220
£50m wouldn’t surprise me.

Before what happened happened he would have been considered unsellable and one of the best young forwards in Europe.
But it has happened, so he isn't worth the money. The only market for him is skint Spanish clubs who know we're desperate.
 

Oscar Bonavena

Full Member
Joined
Jan 3, 2022
Messages
1,254
Location
Ireland
No chance we get anything close to £50 million for him. Clubs know we're desperate to offload him, we'll be doing we'll to get 30 mill.

And we should take it. We have a group of exciting young players at the club now that we can be proud of (Hojlund, Garnacho, Mainoo, Diallo) and that we can build a new team around with the right recruitment. Why would we want to bring this shitshow back?

Golden rule of any football club, you get rid of trouble, you don't bring it in.
 

Marcus

Full Member
Joined
Oct 3, 1999
Messages
6,120
Agreed. The only reason it would be as low as 50m in the present is because the buying club would take on the risk of disruptive media scrutiny (not guaranteed, but possible), which would lower the fee for many. If not for any of this, he would be a 100m player imo.
This.
 

NinjaZombie

Punched the air when Liverpool beat City
Joined
Dec 7, 2011
Messages
10,134
A bit like someone complaining that a mint low mileage Cayman PDK is being sold for more than their Cayman S PDK that has been involved in a serious crash.
Yeah but in this case, that Cayman S PDK can still be driven by other people and you can bump into them driving it on the road to say...a Champions League group stage game.
 

Leftback99

Might have a bedwetting fetish.
Joined
Jan 11, 2015
Messages
14,220
No chance we get anything close to £50 million for him. Clubs know we're desperate to offload him, we'll be doing we'll to get 30 mill.

And we should take it. We have a group of exciting young players at the club now that we can be proud of (Hojlund, Garnacho, Mainoo, Diallo) and that we can build a new team around with the right recruitment. Why would we want to bring this shitshow back?

Golden rule of any football club, you get rid of trouble, you don't bring it in.
Agree. I don't think we'll get more than £20m.
 

Pickle85

Full Member
Joined
Mar 15, 2021
Messages
6,437
Imagine he didn't have a good game then?
Funny isn't it that certain posters moan about the lack of performance related chat in this thread, then when he's anonymous don't show up to discuss his performance...
 

Andycoleno9

matchday malcontent
Joined
Mar 4, 2017
Messages
28,797
Location
Croatia
He has 6 goals and 5 assists in 25 games. That is not something amazing, tbh. I mean, Sorloth and Budimir (two extremely limited players) are on 16/14 goals.
 

AngeloHenriquez

Full Member
Joined
Dec 23, 2009
Messages
13,414
Location
Location Location
Supports
Stevenage
He has 6 goals and 5 assists in 25 games. That is not something amazing, tbh. I mean, Sorloth and Budimir (two extremely limited players) are on 16/14 goals.
Very strange way to view things, he had 2 years out of football, everything else going on (Maybe due to him, not debating that) but then went to a foreign country in a team much worse than ours (Evidenced by their position in a weaker league), yet he has 6 goals and 5 assists in 1947 minutes so a goal or assist every 177 mins.

For context, Antony is every 1,097 mins, Garnacho is every 200 mins, Rashford is 241 mins, Hojlund is every 191 mins.

That's not to say keep Greenwood (Which I would) but considering everything they are pretty good stats for a winger in a 4-4-2 which involves more defensive responsibility than a 4-2-3-1 we play.
 

SilentWitness

ShoelessWitness
Staff
Joined
Jan 14, 2010
Messages
30,266
Supports
Everton
Very strange way to view things, he had 2 years out of football, everything else going on (Maybe due to him, not debating that) but then went to a foreign country in a team much worse than ours (Evidenced by their position in a weaker league), yet he has 6 goals and 5 assists in 1947 minutes so a goal or assist every 177 mins.

For context, Antony is every 1,097 mins, Garnacho is every 200 mins, Rashford is 241 mins, Hojlund is every 191 mins.

That's not to say keep Greenwood (Which I would) but considering everything they are pretty good stats for a winger in a 4-4-2 which involves more defensive responsibility than a 4-2-3-1 we play.
I don't think they're the stats or performances of a player you'd move heaven and hell for to bring them back in though.