Mason Greenwood | Officially a Marseille player

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Wait, why is roleplay now a point for discussion?

Probably because nobody other than Caf posters has suggested anything of the sort. Making random excuses up doesn't seem like anything other than invention to justify what happened with borderline victim blaming.
 
Sorry folks. I was going to post another opinion about this situation but when I was 15 I got drunk down the park with my mates and pissed in a lake beside some swans, so I'm not allowed to say anything now.
Always wanted to see the Scottish remake of that famous ballet tbf.
 
They don’t need to explain. They might have been advised against it in case there were repercussions for her, as has been mentioned in this thread.

Another point is that, whenever the role play possibility has been mentioned, everyone calls bullshit anyway, because they’ve already decided he’s guilty and want to ruin him.

You should make better use of your mind-reading abilities.
 
Of course not. But this perspective that false accusations are a huge issue is so tiring.

Don’t believe I said huge issue, but it is the case that footballers are targets. Which is why you need to follow the law and have appropriate checks and balances.
 
Always wanted to see the Scottish remake of that famous ballet tbf.
:lol: the Scottish version of anything definitely involves pissing at some point. Maybe something deep fried sitting nearby. Deep fried swan... Mmm.
 
Do you know how hard it is to obtain a conviction in DV or sexual assault cases? Do you think the complainant withdrawing their cooperation leaves any reasonable possibility of a conviction as the standard is beyond a reasonable doubt?

Even harder than making a rational argument about left footed penalty takers I'd say.

But in this case the club is satisfied that he didn’t commit the offences he was charged with. That’s not wording supportive of just a witness not being prepared to cooperative nor is it a reasonable doubt test. The club is saying, categorically, that he is not guilty of those offences.

We can all speculate on what the reason may be for the club coming to that conclusion but we cannot argue that is what the club is telling us. It certainly puts the new evidence element of the CPS decision to drop the case well above the lack of witness cooperation to me.
 
That is certainly true that victims sometimes stay with abuser. Can we say it is the case here for sure? We cannot.
On this at least you're right, we don't know what happened. Only thing we can do is hope there was a genuine reconciliation and they are in a healthy relationship right now. We can't just assume that is the case though, or safely conclude that she has made up her mind to move on with him, some caution is needed. Better that we don't speculate about it at all.
 
Sorry folks. I was going to post another opinion about this situation but when I was 15 I got drunk down the park with my mates and pissed in a lake beside some swans, so I'm not allowed to say anything now.
Maybe it was a role play so you're good.
 
If we start thinking what the club should have done then there are lots of options like d) do what they did today when the criminal case was dropped.

I'm not sure that will be useful or calm the current situation down.

Fair enough. I haven't read through this thread at all so you could say I'm not aware of the dumpster fire this probably is.
 
He made an observation and made it sound like a fact when he said "everybody noticed" then to end his sentence with "I am not going to generelise". Read his statement again.
His observation is so noticeable that it’s become a kind of meme.
 
I'm a firm believer in second chances and that people can learn to be better. Shunning criminals is not helpful on a societal level, but (succesful) rehabilitation is. I also believe the club has a moral responsibility to aid people affiliated with the club, something which I think we generally do fairly well.

HOWEVER, Greenwood is a repeat offender, or at the very least a repeat douchebag (hippy crack episodes, and sneaking away on Iceland). There has to be some level of consequences, and 2 years away from football + a torrent of online abuse and hatred is probably quite a punishment already. I think the right step forwards would be a proper counseling/treatment program and treatment, to take real ownership and accountability for his actions, and grow and move on. That has to be dealt with before we can talk about any return to football. The club were in a unique position to take a strong stance on the issue of domestic violence and how to deal with it. Could just be a result of poor communication from the club, but it doesn't feel like the real issue has been dealt with at all.
Agree, but is the club really in a position to demand he go through treatment if there is no way back into the squad? I mean, he could just say that's alright, I'll go somewhere else.
 
Do you know how hard it is to obtain a conviction in DV or sexual assault cases? Do you think the complainant withdrawing their cooperation leaves any reasonable possibility of a conviction as the standard is beyond a reasonable doubt?

Even harder than making a rational argument about left footed penalty takers I'd say.

Why do you keep ignoring that the CPS said there was new evidence? It was not just that the complainant withdrew her cooperation. Nobody outside the CPS knows what that new evidence is, possibly not even the club.

The difficulties of prosecuting DV and SA cases don't really apply here as there is a direct recording of the event. If that was as conclusive as we all first thought they would not need her cooperation, which suggests there is a lot more to it than the 1 minute clip we all heard.
 
But in this case the club is satisfied that he didn’t commit the offences he was charged with. That’s not wording supportive of just a witness not being prepared to cooperative nor is it a reasonable doubt test. The club is saying, categorically, that he is not guilty of those offences.

We can all speculate on what the reason may be for the club coming to that conclusion but we cannot argue that is what the club is telling us. It certainly puts the new evidence element of the CPS decision to drop the case well above the lack of witness cooperation to me.

Don't be naive. The statement was obviously a multiple lawyer created statement that would be foolish to read literally.
 
"Dear fans,"

"the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with."

"• We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online."


This is key to me. It should be made public, so we can all know what happened that night.
 
Why do you keep ignoring that the CPS said there was new evidence? It was not just that the complainant withdrew her cooperation. Nobody outside the CPS knows what that new evidence is, possibly not even the club.

The difficulties of prosecuting DV and SA cases don't really apply here as there is a direct recording of the event. If that was as conclusive as we all first thought they would not need her cooperation, which suggests there is a lot more to it than the 1 minute clip we all heard.

Do you really believe that the withdrawing of cooperation and this new evidence are unconnected?
 
But in this case the club is satisfied that he didn’t commit the offences he was charged with. That’s not wording supportive of just a witness not being prepared to cooperative nor is it a reasonable doubt test. The club is saying, categorically, that he is not guilty of those offences.

We can all speculate on what the reason may be for the club coming to that conclusion but we cannot argue that is what the club is telling us. It certainly puts the new evidence element of the CPS decision to drop the case well above the lack of witness cooperation to me.
The club has a vested interest in the outside world believing in Greenwood not being guilty, as there's still an opportunity to extract value from his contract. They can say whatever they want.
 
"Dear fans,"

"the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with."

"• We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online."


This is key to me. It should be made public, so we can all know what happened that night.

That does not protect the alleged victim's right to anonymity and it may do their young family greater overall harm for all we know.
 
Agree, but is the club really in a position to demand he go through treatment if there is no way back into the squad? I mean, he could just say that's alright, I'll go somewhere else.
At this point it's probably too late, but couldn't something like that have been discussed and agreed a long time ago? Kind of like "for there to be any way back into the team for you, we expect you to undergo counseling and treatment XYZ. We will help you get the support and follow-up you need and want to see a detailed plan". I don't know what legal restrictions exist to talk about such things in the public domain, but this could have become a best practice case example for offenders, victims and employers on how to deal with domestic abuse (if you, like me, believe counseling a rehabilitation works).
 
That does not protect the alleged victim's right to anonymity and it may do their young family greater overall harm for all we know.

Yeah, imagine the what would happen if it turned out, as rumored, to be some sex game/roleplay/kink. She would get villified online.
 
"Dear fans,"

"the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with."

"• We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online."


This is key to me. It should be made public, so we can all know what happened that night.

Perhaps Greenwood, his partner and their families are tired of having the public scrutinize and pass judgement on their situation. We do not have the right to view any additional information and I’m certain they’re happy keeping it to themselves. Greenwood will move on and have a great career elsewhere and we would have lost our greatest talent to come out of the academy in two decades.
 
"Dear fans,"

"the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with."

"• We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online."


This is key to me. It should be made public, so we can all know what happened that night.

To what end? He's being removed from the club after their own internal investigation. It's not like publicly releasing a longer audio with similar language will be particularly helpful. A lot of people seem to be sure it will prove something completely innocent, while it is just as likely that it will just be a recording of nasty words followed by a storming out - and therefore the rape accusation in this very specific instance would be inaccurate.

Nothing good comes from dwelling on this case. The club made a decision that doesn't require public justification and will try to move Mason somewhere else. Hell he might make 10x what he could make here in the Saudi League.
 
Yeah, imagine the what would happen if it turned out, as rumored, to be some sex game/roleplay/kink. She would get villified online.
If they'd released a joint statement a few days after the audio and pics were released saying "this is embarrassing but we are consenting adults who were messing about." There would be a lot of joking and memeing online but he'd have been back in the squad the next match day and nobody would give a shit.

She wouldn't get villified at all.
 
"Dear fans,"

"the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with."

"• We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online."


This is key to me. It should be made public, so we can all know what happened that night.

People keep saying this, but the alleged victim has a right to anonymity.
 
"Dear fans,"

"the evidence we did collate led us to conclude that Mason did not commit the acts he was charged with."

"• We were provided with alternative explanations for the audio recording, which was a short excerpt from a much longer recording, and for the images posted online."


This is key to me. It should be made public, so we can all know what happened that night.

You don't need to know. We don't need to know. Furthermore, the people at the center of this would rather we not. And they don't owe us that.
 
Yeah, imagine the what would happen if it turned out, as rumored, to be some sex game/roleplay/kink. She would get villified online.
That call that "as rumoured" feels like a serious misrepresentation. Some people suggested it or want to believe it, let's keep it at that.
 
Perhaps Greenwood, his partner and their families are tired of having the public scrutinize and pass judgement on their situation. We do not have the right to view any additional information and I’m certain they’re happy keeping it to themselves. Greenwood will move on and have a great career elsewhere and we would have lost our greatest talent to come out of the academy in two decades.
Yup. You're right, keep it in the family, in their 4 walls. What happens there stays there, right.
 
People keep saying this, but the alleged victim has a right to anonymity.

Exactly and they keep forgetting they are still in a relationship and have a baby together.

U want mudslinging or what? And spoil their lives?
 
There is no anonymity though as they are married with a child and everybody knows who the alleged victim is.

Everyone knowing who the victim is is not the same as her being publicly named by an entity that then opens itself up to legal consequences.
 
Perhaps Greenwood, his partner and their families are tired of having the public scrutinize and pass judgement on their situation. We do not have the right to view any additional information and I’m certain they’re happy keeping it to themselves. Greenwood will move on and have a great career elsewhere and we would have lost our greatest talent to come out of the academy in two decades.
Greenwood will get scrutinized and judged for the rest of his life if there is a different truth that never gets out, we don't know if there is, but that is what the club is saying. And what about their child when it grows up? Your father is this, your father is that. If he didn't do it, show us the evidence. Otherwise, every one can rightfully assume he did.
 
He was not the finished product - imo, he had room and potential to get a lot better - he’d also featured as striker/leading the line a couple times rather than playing on the right and did really well with back to goal and link-up play. He was becoming a more rounded player rather than cutting in and firing off.
I disagree, I think he was trash up top. He had some good form on the right in fairness and clearly possessed a high level of natural talent but I don't this he was ever truly going to make it to the top because of his shitty attitude.
 
If you were a perfect 19 year old then congrats.
I think you're being a bit too kind to Greenwood. Most of us grew out of the whole beating women and threatening them with rape** by the time we turned 18.

**Allegedly
 
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