Fairly present as one of the main characters but it’s a large ensemble and it’s shared across at least 4/5/6 “main” characters. So not too heavily focused.
Television Masters of the Air (Apple TV series) - premieres January 26, 2024
- Thread starter RedDevilQuebecois
- Start date
I think this show is pretty good. My favourite episode was the one where two of the soldiers landed in Belgium and their journey back to the UK.
Also, Rosie got that dawg in him. Can't be tamed.
Also, Rosie got that dawg in him. Can't be tamed.
I just rewatched BoB and The Pacific, and this is miles behind both. BoB is a genuine 9.5/10. Pacific was a solid 7.5. This I’d rate at about a 5.5 overall. I’d say 20% of it is very good, 20% is decent, 30% really meh, and the remaining 30% just terrible.
The first four episode were pretty appalling. After that it’s been hit or miss. The series completely lacked the emotional impact and/or brutality of the other two series. There was a total lack of connection between the audience and the main characters. They are all portrayed quite poorly. Actually hard to believe it’s made by the same people as the other two series, because I think it’s one of the weaker war series or films I’ve ever seen.
There were times when the American schmaltz reached eye rolling levels. Something BoB and The Pacific did well to avoid.
I think this has to be one of the biggest disappointments I’ve had, vs expectations, of a show in a very, very long time. I was expecting BoB of the air; but what we got was just so blah. So much pointless, unnecessary filler, no emotional connection to the characters, way too little time spent showing the actual missions, way too much time showing them on leave or sitting around chatting. Even the moments that should’ve shocked the senses fell flat. I watch BoB last week and the scene where they find the concentration camp, is so well handled, I had tears in my eyes. It was gut wrenching. The same scene in this, felt tacked on and poorly handled.
Just a massive letdown all round this series.
5.5/10. And it only gets that for the production quality, and the pure respect I have for the actual airmen.
The first four episode were pretty appalling. After that it’s been hit or miss. The series completely lacked the emotional impact and/or brutality of the other two series. There was a total lack of connection between the audience and the main characters. They are all portrayed quite poorly. Actually hard to believe it’s made by the same people as the other two series, because I think it’s one of the weaker war series or films I’ve ever seen.
There were times when the American schmaltz reached eye rolling levels. Something BoB and The Pacific did well to avoid.
I think this has to be one of the biggest disappointments I’ve had, vs expectations, of a show in a very, very long time. I was expecting BoB of the air; but what we got was just so blah. So much pointless, unnecessary filler, no emotional connection to the characters, way too little time spent showing the actual missions, way too much time showing them on leave or sitting around chatting. Even the moments that should’ve shocked the senses fell flat. I watch BoB last week and the scene where they find the concentration camp, is so well handled, I had tears in my eyes. It was gut wrenching. The same scene in this, felt tacked on and poorly handled.
Just a massive letdown all round this series.
5.5/10. And it only gets that for the production quality, and the pure respect I have for the actual airmen.
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Definitely preferred BoB, especially because the people they played were mostly still alive, so it was just sad at the end when showing the real people.
Sounds like pretty much what I expected. It was always going to be difficult to match such brilliance as BoB.
The only thing that makes it tolerable is that it’s the true accounting of events. So you always have that in your mind. If this was a fictionalised series, and we judged it purely on entertainment value, I’d probably give it a 3/10.
Great finale.
He says he went into it with high expectations, but I suspect he was very prepared to be disappointed, and when the first couple of episodes weren't as good as he wanted, that poisoned his view for the entire rest of the series. Like come on, 3/10? That's absurd.
Basically, watch it or don't, but I thought it was a good - approaching great - TV series in the end.
Nah, he's dead wrong. This is better than The Pacific, easily. The first four episodes were far from "appalling", that's a ridiculous opinion. The first couple were a bit muddled and confusing, but perfectly watchable (as long as the rest is better, which it was). No emotional connection to the characters? Not like Band of Brothers, obviously, but that's one of the top 3 TV series ever. But he must have been watching another show to claim that there was nothing. Same with the concentration camp scene.
He says he went into it with high expectations, but I suspect he was very prepared to be disappointed, and when the first couple of episodes weren't as good as he wanted, that poisoned his view for the entire rest of the series. Like come on, 3/10? That's absurd.
Basically, watch it or don't, but I thought it was a good - approaching great - TV series in the end.
Hmm looks like I’ll need @Massive Spanner to settle this.
Already did on page 2, you’re welcome.
Hey here's an idea, maybe just watch it yourself and see if you like it instead of asking random people on a football forum?
Particularly @Massive Spanner, who famously has pretty damn good taste except those times when he's just shockingly wrong. It just isn't a reliable way to gauge quality. He's like that octopus or whatever that predicted World Cup games.
Particularly @Massive Spanner, who famously has pretty damn good taste except those times when he's just shockingly wrong. It just isn't a reliable way to gauge quality. He's like that octopus or whatever that predicted World Cup games.
@rimaldo how should I reply to this?
It goes without saying that rimaldo is the exception to this. Whatever he says goes, we all agreed on that in advance.
I really don’t know why people keep comparing it to BOB - yes we know - it isn’t as good, very little television is as good as BOB. It took a while for me to get invested with the characters but I found the last episode rather emotional. Good show, well acted and with some incredibly tense moments and scenes - not as good as Band of Brothers though. Obviously.
yeah if we’re all not nice to me then i will just take my ball home and no one will be allowed to play with it.
Name one time I was wrong
Fargo.
I personally liked this series.
Excellent from Spielberg and Hanks.
Excellent from Spielberg and Hanks.
Totally agree! I really enjoyed this and the finale was just fantastic. For me Masters are on par with The Pacific, maybe just a tad below.
As for the lack of connection with the characters, I think that's bollocks. I was proper invested in Crosby (and his "subaltern"!) as well as the relationship between our two Bucks.
Oh, and that scene when the flag went up
Thought it was average at best.
Labelling other people’s opinions ridiculous and absurd, when it comes to a subjective medium like entertainment, is what is ridiculous and absurd. I don’t at any point label my opinions as a statement of fact. Just my opinion on the quality of the series. I stand by everything I said. The first four episodes, in my opinion, were terrible, and most of the rest of the series is middling to poor, with a few highlight moments. Subjectively speaking, I thought the series was really quite shit. And knowing the backstory etc., I gave it a 5.5/10. Without that, as a pure work of fiction, I downgraded it to a 3.
I respect the fact you don’t agree, but there’s no need to denigrate other people’s opinions, simply because they don’t reflect your own. Given how poor I found it to be, in general, I might quite easily label you liking it as “ridiculous and absurd”. Because I struggle to see how anyone could think this polished turd was any good. But instead, I welcome your divergent opinion. I’m glad you enjoyed it.
Clues are in the names. Band of Brothers is character driven. Masters of the Air is focused on the spectacle. You're not supposed to fall in love with any of its revolving door of characters.
You're right, I came off a little bit harsher than I wanted, I apologize. I've gotten so used to talking to the same people on here, so we rib each other in terms that maybe aren't suitable for people who aren't rimaldo or Solius (or Amar, but people probably talk like that to him the first time they meet him).
No worries. I apologise if I came off a little too defensive too.
I thought it was great. Less visceral than The Pacific and more the straight telling of the story I guess. So for me miles behind BoB but perhaps just edges The Pacific, which didn't differentiate the main characters very well.
Can I recommend a book to anyone who has watched or about to watch this series? Lancaster by John Nichol. Tells of the stories from Lancaster crews going on bombing missions over Germany. Utterly terrifying. I know MOTA is from the American side but the crews still went through the same experiences. When I watched the series it gave me an extra perspective, some of which I suppose it’s hard to get across on film.
The last 3 episodes were pure enjoyment. I sure took some time to absorb everything before I could write down a few final comments about the series.
Characters
It took me a while to fully appreciate Buck and Bucky as protagonists, but they became far more relatable and worthy protagonists as the series progressed and especially after they met again at Stalag Luft III. I must say that I became attached to Crosby and Rosenthal almost straight away though. Seeing Crosby struggle as he was the lead navigator who had to send those crews on deadly missions got me rooting for him. Same thing for Rosenthal when he was one of the newest guys and then survived the hell of Münster before he assumed a position of leadership for most of the remaining years of the war. I must say that finding out that Sandra Wesgate was an SOE agent instead of a mere Auxiliary Territorial Services officer was quite a shock, even though it was kind of a necessary plot turn to bring Crosby back to his wife.
Aerial combat sequences
Each of them was great at telling the story of how dangerous the job of bombing was. Before March 1944, each of the missions was like a one-way ride straight to hell. The Münster mission was depicted perfectly for what it was: a total bloodbath. The appearance of the P-51s in Episode 7 was a joy to watch as it felt like the first light you see on the way out of the tunnel.
I know that time was limited, but I would have liked to see an example of the change of tactics in the build-up to D-Day. If you remember Episode 7, Rosenthal was asking to be reenlisted only to be told that the next missions would use the B-17s as bait so the P-51s would pick the Luftwaffe apart. I really wanted to see an example of how Rosenthal's crew would deal one of those missions.
Other highlights
The POW part of the story was well done. You can appreciate how much effort the POWs made in keeping contact with the outside world for news with makeshift radios. The fact that the POWs didn't know what to expect from the German guards in the aftermath to "The Great Escape" added to the tension. Seeing Buck making his escape while Bucky stayed behind to protect the escape in Episode 9 was quite a rollercoaster ride.
The scene where Rosenthal saw the remains of the death camp and then spoke to the Jewish survivors really hit hard. I think that scene alone was even more visceral than its counterpart in BOB. It also makes sense as his own experience of seeing the death camp motivated him to become an assistant to the US prosecutor in the Nuremberg trials.
Seeing the diversity among the POWs when we came down to Stalag VII in Southern Bavaria was a very good reminder about how this war touched so many people and nationalities. I could see Indians, Senegalese, Jamaicans, Norwegians, South Africans, Poles and a few more other than the main Allies in there. By the time that the POW camp was facing the arrival of forward US units, it was a great moment to see all POWs finally pushing back the remaining Nazi guards. The moment when Bucky took down that Nazi flag was just.
Lastly, seeing most the remaining few from the "old breed" flying together for one last time in that relief mission was a perfect touch of closure after the long journey they have made.
Comparison with the other series
Now that I have seen and digested all 3 series, I realized that it is now very unfair to make comparisons with Band of Brothers and The Pacific. Each series has its own story and flow. All of them had their own strengths and weaknesses. Any of them had a few things that were better than the other two. For example, The Pacific was the best at depicting the ferocity of combat and at showing how the protagonists struggled to keep their sanity as everything around them was just so miserable. In Band of Brothers, as the title says, it was the best at depicting how tightly knit the military unit (Easy Company) was as it went through campaign after campaign with each having its own set of challenges. For Masters of the Air, it was the struggle for survival that was depicted the best.
General impressions
In all, I really enjoyed the series. I think the beginning (let's say the first 3 episodes) was a little slow as I didn't connect with all of the main characters straight away while many characters began to die left, right and center. I think that Episode 4 was the moment when the tone was well and truly set, and then everything since has been fantastic. Special thanks to Tom Hanks and Steven Spielberg once again.
If you're interested, WatchMojo has a few more things to talk about.
Characters
It took me a while to fully appreciate Buck and Bucky as protagonists, but they became far more relatable and worthy protagonists as the series progressed and especially after they met again at Stalag Luft III. I must say that I became attached to Crosby and Rosenthal almost straight away though. Seeing Crosby struggle as he was the lead navigator who had to send those crews on deadly missions got me rooting for him. Same thing for Rosenthal when he was one of the newest guys and then survived the hell of Münster before he assumed a position of leadership for most of the remaining years of the war. I must say that finding out that Sandra Wesgate was an SOE agent instead of a mere Auxiliary Territorial Services officer was quite a shock, even though it was kind of a necessary plot turn to bring Crosby back to his wife.
Aerial combat sequences
Each of them was great at telling the story of how dangerous the job of bombing was. Before March 1944, each of the missions was like a one-way ride straight to hell. The Münster mission was depicted perfectly for what it was: a total bloodbath. The appearance of the P-51s in Episode 7 was a joy to watch as it felt like the first light you see on the way out of the tunnel.
I know that time was limited, but I would have liked to see an example of the change of tactics in the build-up to D-Day. If you remember Episode 7, Rosenthal was asking to be reenlisted only to be told that the next missions would use the B-17s as bait so the P-51s would pick the Luftwaffe apart. I really wanted to see an example of how Rosenthal's crew would deal one of those missions.
Other highlights
The POW part of the story was well done. You can appreciate how much effort the POWs made in keeping contact with the outside world for news with makeshift radios. The fact that the POWs didn't know what to expect from the German guards in the aftermath to "The Great Escape" added to the tension. Seeing Buck making his escape while Bucky stayed behind to protect the escape in Episode 9 was quite a rollercoaster ride.
The scene where Rosenthal saw the remains of the death camp and then spoke to the Jewish survivors really hit hard. I think that scene alone was even more visceral than its counterpart in BOB. It also makes sense as his own experience of seeing the death camp motivated him to become an assistant to the US prosecutor in the Nuremberg trials.
Seeing the diversity among the POWs when we came down to Stalag VII in Southern Bavaria was a very good reminder about how this war touched so many people and nationalities. I could see Indians, Senegalese, Jamaicans, Norwegians, South Africans, Poles and a few more other than the main Allies in there. By the time that the POW camp was facing the arrival of forward US units, it was a great moment to see all POWs finally pushing back the remaining Nazi guards. The moment when Bucky took down that Nazi flag was just
.Lastly, seeing most the remaining few from the "old breed" flying together for one last time in that relief mission was a perfect touch of closure after the long journey they have made.
Comparison with the other series
Now that I have seen and digested all 3 series, I realized that it is now very unfair to make comparisons with Band of Brothers and The Pacific. Each series has its own story and flow. All of them had their own strengths and weaknesses. Any of them had a few things that were better than the other two. For example, The Pacific was the best at depicting the ferocity of combat and at showing how the protagonists struggled to keep their sanity as everything around them was just so miserable. In Band of Brothers, as the title says, it was the best at depicting how tightly knit the military unit (Easy Company) was as it went through campaign after campaign with each having its own set of challenges. For Masters of the Air, it was the struggle for survival that was depicted the best.
General impressions
In all, I really enjoyed the series. I think the beginning (let's say the first 3 episodes) was a little slow as I didn't connect with all of the main characters straight away while many characters began to die left, right and center. I think that Episode 4 was the moment when the tone was well and truly set, and then everything since has been fantastic. Special thanks to Tom Hanks and Steven Spielberg once again.
If you're interested, WatchMojo has a few more things to talk about.
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Appreciate the write up, @RedDevilQuebecois. What can I say? I totally agree with everything you just wrote
Really struggling getting through the first episode.
All there is just "woo-hoo" "yee-haaah* and punchlines and shouting.
Had to take a pause because of the bike race. Really bad start here.
All there is just "woo-hoo" "yee-haaah* and punchlines and shouting.
Had to take a pause because of the bike race. Really bad start here.
Yeah, loved this show. Better than Pacific for me and holy shit was this a profession that I wouldn't want to have been in. Those planes were horrific.