McTominay Vs Fred

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Now I'm not usually a huge fan of comparison threads but I am interested to know the general consensus on here between Fred and McTominay. So one of the big debates on the forum at the moment is how to get the best out of our midfield options, primarily Pogba, Fernandes plus either Fred or Mctominay (let's ignore other signings for now). So I'm just going to give a really quick breakdown on both.

Fred:
Fred has without a doubt had a breakout season for Man Utd this season and proven many of his doubters wrong. His best attribute has got to be his energy, he gets around the pitch tremendously and while McTominay also excels in this area, I feel Fred's small frame allows him to get around quicker and for longer. This was best displayed in the City game where Fred was still sprinting box-to-box in the 90th minute. Fred is also a very assured passer on either foot and this has clearly helped us to improve our transition speed this season. McTomminay is a good passer of the ball between the lines, but I feel he's generally a little more erratic especially in his short and medium passing game. Fred is also technically better in small spaces (largely due to his size) and is really composed on the ball even when collecting the ball deep. Overall, Fred has a genuine claim at being our player of the season this year and for me has earned his place as a mainstay in the side. Enjoy the obligatory Video;



McTominay:
Mctominay is another player that was largely written off by the fanbase (I'll hold my hands up and say I didn't see it at all). Like Fred, McTominay has made fantastic strides under Ole and has become a real leader in the midfield. He has also significantly improved on the ball from his initial breakthrough. I would say that Mctominay's best attributes are his physicality, tackling and his ability to break the lines; either by beating a man with a dribble or fizzing a pass between the lines into Bruno or Martial. As I mentioned above, I think McTominay is more prone to errors with simple short and medium passes and lacks the technical skills of the Brazilian however, he's got Fred's number when it comes to physicality. It is noticeable how many headers, duels, and battles McTominay wins and without a doubt that gives a different dimension to Utd's midfield.


Conclusions:
Fred and McTominay can absolutely play together, and I think they will continue to do so no matter who we sign, particularly in big games. I think Ole will certainly look to employ the diamond and having both really increases our ball-winning ability.

However, this thread isn't actually about that and while I like and rate both players, there can only be one! Personally, I think the improvements seen in Fred this season have been phenomenal and I think his qualities are more befitting of a top team who can dominate opponents both on and off the ball. Again the topic is for another thread but I think a Midfield three of Fred, Pogba and Bruno has the potential to be as good as any in world football. McTominay is still young, and if he continues to grow and improve I will happily change my views on this however, I just have Fred as a more vital piece of the puzzle for now.

Anyway, I've rambled enough, what does everyone else think? If it can only be one, which is the best suited and why?

Mods if we could also add a poll between the two I would really appreciate it.

 

[jamesjimmybyrondean]

Fred. I like Mctominay's character though but Fred is the better player

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

I hate the idea that we have to pick one, it completely depends who we are against, with harder opposition on the pitch, I would opt for Matic, when we don't have one of Pogba/ Bruno, I'd pick Fred as he most creative and if we are against a team we expect to destroy, Mctom can pop up with the odd goal

 

[cyberman]

Its great to have options plus we always have our fitness problems which negates discussions like these. I remember the RVP /Rooney/Falcao/Di Maria fantasy lineups
It depends on how well Pogba adapts to a deeper position.
Just play who is on form and rotate from there.

 

[Skills]

Fred's the better footballer. If we transfer list them both, Fred would end up at a higher calibre football club than McTominay.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

I hate the idea that we have to pick one, it completely depends who we are against, with harder opposition on the pitch, I would opt for Matic, when we don't have one of Pogba/ Bruno, I'd pick Fred as he most creative and if we are against a team we expect to destroy, Mctom can pop up with the odd goal

Yeh I think that’s a very fair point and I agree it’s good to have options. I was just trying to look at this purely from the perspective of Fred Vs McTomminay and who is rated higher amongst Utd fans.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Fred's the better footballer. If we transfer list them both, Fred would end up at a higher calibre football club than McTominay.

I would agree with that. However, I still feel McTominay has time on his side and could well prove to be a very valuable player I the future.

 

[ivaldo]

I hate the idea that we have to pick one, it completely depends who we are against, with harder opposition on the pitch, I would opt for Matic, when we don't have one of Pogba/ Bruno, I'd pick Fred as he most creative and if we are against a team we expect to destroy, Mctom can pop up with the odd goal

I'd love only being able to pick one. It means we have options, something we've sorely lacked in midfield for some time. They're both terrific players; imagine having one on the bench to bring on instead of relying on granddad Matic or Andreas?

 

[Canadianred17]

Fred is easily the better football player. Couldn't imagine McTominay at any big club if transfer listed or even at United if he didn't come from the academy. However, he is useful for us and does a job.

 

[Ekeke]

Neither are the top tier of holding midfielder, but if one of them was going to play with Pogba and Bruno in a 3 then it should be McTominay. Fred gets beaten too easily and McTominay does not.

We'd be much better off than either of them with a new DM specialist who would let Pogba and Bruno get on with the attacking.

 

[bosnian_red]

Said it a few times, but McTominay will be a long term staple in our starting 11. The management loves him, hes ever improving as a player and on the pitch hes been one of our best this season. Fred needs the physical and defensive power next to him. McTominay is more box to box than Matic, but very capable of playing and learning to be a defensive midfielder as a ball winning midfielder.

Fred's improved massively, but in general I'd still say hes a bit too loose on the ball with his technique, and why he'll be a long term squad player, rather than starting alongside Pogba and Bruno.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Said it a few times, but McTominay will be a long term staple in our starting 11. The management loves him, hes ever improving as a player and on the pitch hes been one of our best this season. Fred needs the physical and defensive power next to him. McTominay is more box to box than Matic, but very capable of playing and learning to be a defensive midfielder as a ball winning midfielder.

Fred's improved massively, but in general I'd still say hes a bit too loose on the ball with his technique, and why he'll be a long term squad player, rather than starting alongside Pogba and Bruno.

You think Fred is more loose on the ball than McTomminay? I would disagree with that personally. Fred takes afew risks with his passing, but it’s generally at a pretty consistent level. McTomminay for me makes afew errors with simple passes.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Its a tough one.

At the start of the season, McTominay was fantastic - arguably our best and most consistent player. Even when got Pogba picked up his injury, and Matic came into replace him, Scott continued his good form. Tenacious in the tackle, strong as an ox and a leader of men. A never say die attitude. I feel one of McTominay's biggest assets is his leadership. His ability to raise performance and set the right example on the pitch. You need that in your team!

Reminds me of Henderson, or how people perceive Henderson, in that you either think he's underrated or overrated. No middle ground.

At 23, he is still learning, and I'm not sure if he'll go on to be a regular starting at United, but if he is, he's someone I can see being captain, simply because of what I said above.

Fred, due to his marriage and missing pre-season, had a slow start to the season. With Pogba, Matic and McTominay, he couldn't even get on to our bench. This is why I'm confused as to why some people want two additional midfielders in the summer.

I can't remember what game it was (may have been Liverpool), but that game was the turning point for Fred, and ever since then, we've seen the type of player we saw at Shakhtar. Someone who is dynamic, brave on ball and quick in transition. I get the feeling, Ole is trying to mould him into a deeplying playmaker, rather than the box to box role he played at his previous club.

Both have been fantastic to date, and I feel it will be a constant rotation with the two, especially depending who we play.

For the physical sides like Burnley, Newcastle, etc, its probably a game where you'd put McTominay in. Sir Alex always used to make these type of changes to try and combat the oppositions strengths, and feel with Fred and McTominay as our options, we have two players who offer us different skillsets.

Below is their stats this season:

Defensive:


Offensive:


Passing:


I'd be happy with whoever we play out of the two, but Fred probably edges it for me at the moment. I also feel that his dynamism is somewhat similar to Kante's, who seems to bring the best out of Pogba. That is assuming Pogba will be here. Time will tell, but as I said, good options to have, and kudos to them both for knuckling down and showing the sort of progress they have shown.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Neither are the top tier of holding midfielder, but if one of them was going to play with Pogba and Bruno in a 3 then it should be McTominay. Fred gets beaten too easily and McTominay does not.

We'd be much better off than either of them with a new DM specialist who would let Pogba and Bruno get on with the attacking.

Surely we need to see this in action though before we can definitively say “neither is good enough defensively”. I wouldn’t have thought that Fernandinho would have been the defensive player he became at city when he first arrived and yet he proved himself as top class. I think Fred could thrive in that role if he was given the platform to perform which he might get at Utd over the next few seasons.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Its a tough one.

At the start of the season, McTominay was fantastic - arguably our best and most consistent player. Even when got Pogba picked up his injury, and Matic came into replace him, Scott continued his good form. Tenacious in the tackle, strong as an ox and a leader of men. A never say die attitude. I feel one of McTominay's biggest assets is his leadership. His ability to raise performance and set the right example on the pitch. You need that in your team!

Reminds me of Henderson, or how people perceive Henderson, in that you either think he's underrated or overrated. No middle ground.

At 23, he is still learning, and I'm not sure if he'll go on to be a regular starting at United, but if he is, he's someone I can see being captain, simply because of what I said above.

Fred, due to his marriage and missing pre-season, had a slow start to the season. With Pogba, Matic and McTominay, he couldn't even get on to our bench. This is why I'm confused as to why some people want two additional midfielders in the summer.

I can't remember what game it was (may have been Liverpool), but that game was the turning point for Fred, and ever since then, we've seen the type of player we saw at Shakhtar. Someone who is dynamic, brave on ball and quick in transition. I get the feeling, Ole is trying to mould him into a deeplying playmaker, rather than the box to box role he played at his previous club.

Both have been fantastic to date, and I feel it will be a constant rotation with the two, especially depending who we play.

For the physical sides like Burnley, Newcastle, etc, its probably a game where you'd put McTominay in. Sir Alex always used to make these type of changes to try and combat the oppositions strengths, and feel with Fred and McTominay as our options, we have two players who offer us different skillsets.

Below is their stats this season:

Defensive:


Offensive:


Passing:


I'd be happy with whoever we play out of the two, but Fred probably edges it for me at the moment. I also feel that his dynamism is somewhat similar to Kante's, who seems to bring the best out of Pogba. That is assuming Pogba will be here. Time will tell, but as I said, good options to have, and kudos to them both for knuckling down and showing the sort of progress they have shown.

Excellent post and I’m glad you added some statistics for interest. The stats certainly seem to indicate that Fred is currently playing at a higher level which I think fits with the eye test. But I completely agree with you McTominay is a leader and that’s great to see in a team which has been devoid of leadership for far too long.

The other consideration that I didn’t mention in the Op is goalscoring. McTominay currently offers much greater goal threat. It’s the one part of Freds game that has let him down slightly. Isn’t it fantastic though to be able to have these debates finally, for too long our midfield options have been lacking. If we sign a DM in the summer we will be laughing.

 

[RedRonaldo]

I prefer Fred, he offers more on the pitch, and looks like a proper first team key player this season. The way he circulates pass in midfield is quite impressive to watch.
Mctominay is quite good and reliable too, a workhorse type of box-to-box player with always the right attitude on the pitch, but I feel doesn't stand out in anything particular. In short, he always get his job done with right attitude, which I like alot, but there is also lack of quality in his overall play too.

 

[Walters_19_MuFc]

Excellent post and I’m glad you added some statistics for interest. The stats certainly seem to indicate that Fred is currently playing at a higher level which I think fits with the eye test. But I completely agree with you McTominay is a leader and that’s great to see in a team which has been devoid of leadership for far too long.

The other consideration that I didn’t mention in the Op is goalscoring. McTominay currently offers much greater goal threat. It’s the one part of Freds game that has let him down slightly. Isn’t it fantastic though to be able to have these debates finally, for too long our midfield options have been lacking. If we sign a DM in the summer we will be laughing.

Thanks. Always love these type of threads. Made one the other day about Bruno and Pogba. Despite them being subjective, as you said, it's great to have a debate about who we should start. I believe these two were up there for Player of the season, so I guess it goes to show how much we've improved in that department.

I think in a nutshell, Fred, after Matic, is our most natural holding player, and it seems that's where Ole prefers Fred to play when he and McTominay play together.

As you said, Fred, despite being known to do some crazy stuff, is comfortable on the ball, and I believe he's been key to our transitioning play. His ability to find those passing in between the lines is very similar to Carrick, who Fred mentioned helped him a lot.

 

[bosnian_red]

You think Fred is more loose on the ball than McTomminay? I would disagree with that personally. Fred takes afew risks with his passing, but it’s generally at a pretty consistent level. McTomminay for me makes afew errors with simple passes.

Fred is a bit loose with his touch in general and does have it in him to get caught out deep. McTominay I'd say is far safer and his technical side has been improving loads, but also hes in there for the defensive side of the game where hes far superior to Fred, and would be needed.

 

[TrustInJanuzaj]

Fred is a bit loose with his touch in general and does have it in him to get caught out deep. McTominay I'd say is far safer and his technical side has been improving loads, but also hes in there for the defensive side of the game where hes far superior to Fred, and would be needed.

I think that criticism of Fred was fair a year ago however I think he’s really improved in that department and has now become very dependable. I’m also not convinced McTomminay is that much superior to Fred at defending. Ole clearly trusts Fred a little more in the defensive role whereas I feel I tells McTominay to get forward a little more. I think it’s actually pretty close between them.

 

[Ekeke]

Surely we need to see this in action though before we can definitively say “neither is good enough defensively”. I wouldn’t have thought that Fernandinho would have been the defensive player he became at city when he first arrived and yet he proved himself as top class. I think Fred could thrive in that role if he was given the platform to perform which he might get at Utd over the next few seasons.

We've seen it. Fred played the DM role at the end of last season instead of Matic. We've also seen this season that more players dribble past him than are tackled by him.

That wasnt the case for Ander last season.

Spoiler

Its not the case for McTominay or Matic. Or even Pogba

Spoiler

One of the reasons he gets beaten more than these players is because he's rushing around getting into a position to be taken on by the attacker. Fred is trier for sure, its not about effort. But once he's in a position to compete for the ball he wins it less often than he wins it. And once again, Ander didnt have that problem despite working hard.

A defensive specialist like Ndidi wins the tackle more than he's beaten, but so does a normal CM like Maddison

Spoiler

Keita, Fabinho, Henderson... All win the ball more than they are beaten by a dribble

Spoiler

Rodrigo...

Spoiler

Jorginho, Kovacic, Kante... No problems

Spoiler

Maybe its something that happens more at continental teams, maybe the fancy midfielders at Barcelona and Madrid are getting beaten more than they win the ball

Busquets

Spoiler

Casemiro

Spoiler

CMs at Atletico - Saul, Partey...

Spoiler

So yeah its just a Fred problem out of the ball winning midfielders at these clubs.

Overall here are the list of CMs and DMs who are beaten most per 90 mins

Fred needs to improve on this a lot if he's going to be considered for being played as a single holding midfielder with Pogba and Fernandes getting forward. McTominay doesn't have this problem so he's the pick

 

[Bwuk]

McTominay comfortably.

Fred’s too prone to getting caught out, or missing a simple pass. He can get beaten easily too.

Hes come on leaps and bounds this season, but from our current lot our midfield 3 should be McTominay, Pogba and Bruno.

 

[11101]

Fred's the better footballer. If we transfer list them both, Fred would end up at a higher calibre football club than McTominay.

This.

McTominay has been brought in to fill a specific role and is doing it very well, but it doesn't change the fact that Fred is currently a better player. It's not actually that close. McTominay right now would only get interest from mid table if he wanted to move, most big clubs have players that can do what he does. Players like Fred are harder to find.

 

[bosnian_red]

I think that criticism of Fred was fair a year ago however I think he’s really improved in that department and has now become very dependable. I’m also not convinced McTomminay is that much superior to Fred at defending. Ole clearly trusts Fred a little more in the defensive role whereas I feel I tells McTominay to get forward a little more. I think it’s actually pretty close between them.

Not shitting on Fred, hes massively improved, but I dont think hes ahead of McTominay for Ole. Also depends on others. With Pogba and Bruno there, i think the 3rd midfielder will be between McTominay and Matic IMO, while Fred will come in for the other 2 midfielders.

 

[Bwuk]

Not shitting on Fred, hes massively improved, but I dont think hes ahead of McTominay for Ole. Also depends on others. With Pogba and Bruno there, i think the 3rd midfielder will be between McTominay and Matic IMO, while Fred will come in for the other 2 midfielders.

This is what I think too.

 

[Brightonian]

They're close, and which I would pick depends on the match situation. Fred is a more rounded footballer, and also the more capable distributor from deep of the two. McTominay is the one I would turn to in a big game: he has the mentality, the engine and the nous to dominate even against midfields with more talented players in them. He's the more reliable as a straight-up defender, although that doesn't necessarily make him the better of the two in a deep position.

That said, Fred is 27 and McTominay is 23. McTominay only became a true fixture in the senior starting xi this season. Fred played five full seasons in Shakhtar's first team before he even came here. In four years, McTominay will be a better player than Fred is now.

They're both good and I'm happy we have them in the team. Keep Pogba, add a DM ideally (as a Matic rotation/replacement) and our midfield looks very strong.

 

[Camilo]

Fred does a fine job when we're on top, but he's easily ignored when the opposition are stronger. Too, slow, too weak. Mata, but deep. McTomminay is technically excellent, athletic, sharp, physical.. He has everything needed to be a top player. Better for me.

 

[Luke1995]

Right now Fred is the better player but Mctominay has more potential in the long term.

What about Matic though ? I'm not ready to write him off just yet. If he can get back his Chelsea form or what he showed in his early days for us, he's a very good option

 

[Untd55]

Fred is a lot better in terms of dribbling, technical ability, passing, and energy. In terms of those facets, it is not even close. I would pick Fred without a doubt; a team looking to challenge for the top trophies cannot afford to have a player in the first-team, McTominay, who cannot pass well enough. Being good in some forms of defence is not enough; McTominay really needs to improve his passing as he misplaces far too many of them.

It is strange that people seem to be finding fault with Fred's passing but then not mentioning it about McTominay.

Premier League Pass Completion
McTominay - 79.1% (18 games - 2 subs)
Fred - 87% (22 games - 3 subs)

You would expect passing % to lower over a greater number of games, but it seems McTominay has a far lower percentage with fewer games.

Would McTominay be trying more risky passes? Well, if he is he is not doing a very good job of it as Fred has more key passes per game than McTominay. McTominay also tends to play further forward than Fred. Either McTominay attempts to make a lot of chances and fails or he just doesn't use possession as well as Fred.

Does McTominay pass more than Fred and thus lower his pass percentage? No, Fred averages 61.4 passes per game to McTominay's 42.2. Again, you would expect the percentage to fall with more passes.

Does McTominay pull off more long balls? No, Fred averages 4.1 per game to McTominay's 2.9.

Every way you look at it, McTominay has a lot to do to get anywhere close to Fred in terms of passing. This cannot seriously be up for debate.

The only things that McTominay has over Fred is strength and height. Everything else is at least equalled or bettered by Fred. Even in terms of defence, the only area he beats Fred at is clearances per game. It is not clear that McTominay is actually better than Fred at defending.

I will tell you one thing: replacing Fred will be a hell of a lot harder than replacing McTominay.

 

[Tom Cato]

McTominay is about as proud to play for the club as Ighalo is. That being said, Fred is the better player, but McTominay will break his nose if he needs to. I'll keep both.

 

[MyOnlySolskjaer]

McTominay has to do much more for me against the smaller teams.

 

[Rozay]

Fred is the better player for me, but McTominay has some attributes that he is particularly stronger than Fred in, and could be more useful than Fred in some occasions.

Fred’s superior ability, for me, means he would be able to excel in more types of teams than Scott though. He could excel at United, which he has of course, but could also fit in at City, Ajax and Atletico Madrid in equal measure. Scott could be a great player for Atletico too, possibly more useful than Fred, but massively less useful at Barcelona or Ajax.

Both are good players, and when paired, are as solid a pair as you can get in the PL. I love watching Fred when he’s on song though. He’s a Brazilian, Spanish and British midfielder at the same time. Scott has great presence, but Fred’s superior ball ability for me means that I think it would be easier to find another midfielder to do Scott’s job than it would be for Fred.

 

[He'sRaldo]

Ideally a combination of both. Until we find that kind of player, Fred.

 

[Andycoleno9]

No contest for me. Fred. Better player in every area.

 

[TrustInOle]

At this moment, Fred is easily the better footballer, unless we are talking who we want as a shield if we play both Pogba and Bruno, then I would go with Scott. That being said, I feel they work well as a midfield two together.

My personal belief though is Scott has bags of potential which I can see him easily developing into as his work ethic and loyalty for the shirt is unquestionable. Far from the level Carrick was but I love it when he pings them 50 yard balls across field from deep.

 

[Web of Bissaka]

If it can only be one, which is the best suited and why?

Easy.
Fred for majority of the games.
McT for big games and certain games vs specific teams where his discipline and greater "defensive stability" may be more suited.

For now mind, let's see their developments, more so McT for I'm expecting to see him grow more rather than Fred.

 

[SpyLuke10]

Short-medium term its Fred. But long term McTominay imo.

 

[simplyared]

McTominay and it's not even close!

 

[Based Adnan]

Fred gets bypassed way too easily and for all the talk about him being better on the ball he's just as sloppy with misplaced passes. McTominay has also done it in big games for longer than Fred.

 

[Prongsy]

Very hard to compare. Fred is a harder player to build a team around. his skill sets are more niche, he has great engine when team can keep the ball and needs to play a lot of quick incisive passes. his natural flair and aggression and instincts work best when that happens. McTominay is a very old school midfielder with complete modern technical prowess. he wont spend needless amount of time on the ball to express himself, like Fred can, and should, but, he can do pretty much what most footballers need to do to win games these days. He has biggest engine, quick mind to not over stay his welcome or sensibilities on the ball, in order for teams to play varied type of football. Both of them have excellent mentality so its pointless to compare that. but Mctominay just physically a beast, and massively underrated as a passer who is no Modric/iniesta types, nor is he blessed and full of wisdom as Scholes, but is a quality quality player on the ball ,who can some day grow to be as effective as a michael carrick types, even if he does nothing whatsoever physically. which btw, he still does. Is Fred as good a player? definitely not. but skills of fred, and his confidence, and making runs, in dangerous area and how successful he can be, are just going to be naturally more advanced and key than anything Mctominay can be allowed to do. Its highly unlikely we will ever make him Delle Alli type player from here on haha. If anything he will be a mobile destroyer from CDM, but even that is slightly wasting his ability to understand and beat or take players on all the time. but just on paper, they are both box to box midfielders. but with Pogba and Bruno, if you need one player there between those two, it'll always be the silent destroyer in Mcsauce. unless you have to play vs a team that expects you to be gutsy on the ball, and tactically play in ways we just aren't used to playing in last few years(though Ole has changed that slightly)

 

[RooneyLegend]

Fred's the better footballer. If we transfer list them both, Fred would end up at a higher calibre football club than McTominay.

Scotty McT would struggle to stay in the league.