Media Businesses Struggling Thread - Famous sites closing down

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Saw this from Brian Merchant, who's work I have really enjoyed, confirm that Vice.com is being wiped from the web as of today.

Seems it's just one in a long line of outlets, publications and sites that are going down due to varying factors, notwithstanding modern capitalism on the internet.

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It seems the ecosystem these sites operate in, make it harder and harder to stay afloat/generate profit and be sustainable.

Shame as vice had some great stuff.

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[SalfordRed18]

Damn shame I loved some of their docs.

Does this mean no more dark side of the ring?

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Damn shame I loved some of their docs.

Does this mean no more dark side of the ring?

I think so, but let's hope not, that's an incredible series

 

[Red in STL]

Ultimately we, the consumers, are largely to blame, we don't want to pay for quality content on the internet, the alternative is websites with intrusive advertising and click-bait content just to pay for the expenses

I work for a commercial publishing company that publishes medical journals, books and related other products, the company is constantly under criticism due to the cost of using our content, the reality is it takes 1000's of people and millions of $$$ to provide the content online

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Ultimately we, the consumers, are largely to blame, we don't want to pay for quality content on the internet, the alternative is websites with intrusive advertising and click-bait content just to pay for the expenses

I work for a commercial publishing company that publishes medical journals, books and related other products, the company is constantly under criticism due to the cost of using our content, the reality is it takes 1000's of people and millions of $$$ to provide the content online

I bet your CEO has a yacht

But you're right, but I pay for subscriptions because I don't want advertising and because I support people/writers I like.

Alas the financialisation of things is ruining it for everyone.

I saw that the Vice top people were on several hundred thousand a year ffs

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[Red in STL]

I bet your CEO has a yacht

But you're right, but I pay for subscriptions because I don't want advertising and because I support people/writers I like.

Alas the financialisation of things is ruining it for everyone.

I saw that the Vice top people were on several hundred thousand a year ffs

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Actually he probably doesn't, I've met him a few times and he's pretty much down to earth, especially for a bloke that runs a company with 30K+ staff

He's on a relatively small salary for a FTSE 100 company that is ranked as the world's 191th most valuable company and usually has pre-tax profits of a $2 or 3 billion a year (in fact when it comes to revenue from internet services I think we're in the top 5)

 

[Hugh Jass]

What about their videos on youtube? Some great ones there.

 

[Brophs]

Not the same thing but I know someone who worked for Joe.co.uk and all I’ll say is that is one rough business to be in.

 

[Pogue Mahone]

There must have been a sweet spot for online media a few years ago where they could make a profit without pissing off their customers with intrusive ads and/or paywalls? I guess the constant capitalist obsession for growth meant they had no choice but to blow past that point and end up so bloated and expensive to run they end up losing all their customers because trying to rinse as much money as possible out of them makes the product lose what first made it attractive.

This is enshittification in action, right? Hard not to think it’s the word that will be looked back on as the perfect summary of a fairly grim time for society that is only just getting started. As well as online media, see also online commerce, customer service etc etc

 

[Moby]

Nothing to see here

 

[kundalini]

There must have been a sweet spot for online media a few years ago where they could make a profit without pissing off their customers with intrusive ads and/or paywalls? I guess the constant capitalist obsession for growth meant they had no choice but to blow past that point and end up so bloated and expensive to run they end up losing all their customers because trying to rinse as much money as possible out of them makes the product lose what first made it attractive.

This is enshittification in action, right? Hard not to think it’s the word that will be looked back on as the perfect summary of a fairly grim time for society that is only just getting started. As well as online media, see also online commerce, customer service etc etc

Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo (TPM) has written about this topic numerous times over the years. From memory, a lot of these bigger online media brands used VC funding to go for growth, on the assumption that things would work out as they had for the likes of Amazon, Google and Facebook, then found being bigger wasn't the same as being more profitable. TPM never chased growth in the same fashion, deliberately sticking to what they could actually afford to do in that moment, so are still a tiny company relative to those that shot past them then collapsed. Eventually the venture capital firms realised that online media wasn't going to deliver the returns they had anticipated so stopped providing additional funds.

New York Times is behind a paywall, Guardian relies on supporters/members funding it, TPM's revenue is now 80% members. Fewer and fewer media companies can survive on adverts. Not sure about the viability of some of the other big media brands that were formerly (and to an extent still are) newspapers; Mirror group seems in trouble to me but I don't follow it closely enough to know.

 

[Mb194dc]

Dotcom crash 2 getting rolling? Or just ripples in the pond?

 

[Pogue Mahone]

Josh Marshall of Talking Points Memo (TPM) has written about this topic numerous times over the years. From memory, a lot of these bigger online media brands used VC funding to go for growth, on the assumption that things would work out as they had for the likes of Amazon, Google and Facebook, then found being bigger wasn't the same as being more profitable. TPM never chased growth in the same fashion, deliberately sticking to what they could actually afford to do in that moment, so are still a tiny company relative to those that shot past them then collapsed. Eventually the venture capital firms realised that online media wasn't going to deliver the returns they had anticipated so stopped providing additional funds.

New York Times is behind a paywall, Guardian relies on supporters/members funding it, TPM's revenue is now 80% members. Fewer and fewer media companies can survive on adverts. Not sure about the viability of some of the other big media brands that were formerly (and to an extent still are) newspapers; Mirror group seems in trouble to me but I don't follow it closely enough to know.

Interesting about the VC funding drying up. I guess that’s throttling a lot of the “new media” companies. The more traditional MSM were probably kept afloat by hard copy sales but that’s all drying up now as well. So they’re all hitting the wall at the same time.

 

[Jippy]

Ultimately we, the consumers, are largely to blame, we don't want to pay for quality content on the internet, the alternative is websites with intrusive advertising and click-bait content just to pay for the expenses

I work for a commercial publishing company that publishes medical journals, books and related other products, the company is constantly under criticism due to the cost of using our content, the reality is it takes 1000's of people and millions of $$$ to provide the content online

I work for a specialist financial publisher and we've just had another round of job cuts.
The operating environment is tough. Online advertising does not replace the loss of print revenue and advertisers are becoming much savvy and demanding.

The shit economic backdrop has meant loads of companies, financial services included, have cut advertising as they slash their own spending.

Trying to move to a subscription model is difficult when readers are used to having it for free. The Sun ditched its attempt a few years ago cos page views collapsed and the Mail has only just tentatively started trying.

I remember reading a few years ago about the likes of Vogue and Cosmopolitan's revenues being down 75% cos of the decline of print. The only surprise now is that print is still limping on in some quarters.

Also loads of media companies use events, eg conferences and awards, as a diversifier and brand extension, but they were annihilated during Covid. They're obviously back now but decreased business travel has hurt some.

 

[calodo2003]

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[Pickle85]

Ultimately we, the consumers, are largely to blame, we don't want to pay for quality content on the internet, the alternative is websites with intrusive advertising and click-bait content just to pay for the expenses

I work for a commercial publishing company that publishes medical journals, books and related other products, the company is constantly under criticism due to the cost of using our content, the reality is it takes 1000's of people and millions of $$$ to provide the content online

Do you work for Springer Nature? I used to work for them!

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Actually he probably doesn't, I've met him a few times and he's pretty much down to earth, especially for a bloke that runs a company with 30K+ staff

He's on a relatively small salary for a FTSE 100 company that is ranked as the world's 191th most valuable company and usually has pre-tax profits of a $2 or 3 billion a year (in fact when it comes to revenue from internet services I think we're in the top 5)

Well there's no confusion how they make their money, they hide information online.

You made it out like a mum and papa store who struggles to pay the hostings fees

I work for a commercial publishing company that publishes medical journals, books and related other products, the company is constantly under criticism due to the cost of using our content, the reality is it takes 1000's of people and millions of $$$ to provide the content online

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Interesting about the VC funding drying up. I guess that’s throttling a lot of the “new media” companies. The more traditional MSM were probably kept afloat by hard copy sales but that’s all drying up now as well. So they’re all hitting the wall at the same time.

Yeah, the VC money is naturally moving. Seems the only people buying media companies now is the ultra wealthy right wing people trying to control the narratives etc.

 

[Red in STL]

Do you work for Springer Nature? I used to work for them!

Nope, Elsevier

 

[Pickle85]

Nope, Elsevier

Ah yes. I have a few friends worked for Routledge.

 

[Red in STL]

Ah yes. I have a few friends worked for Routledge.

Routledge is part of Taylor & Francis not Elsevier, however the staff of all the major publishers like Wiley, Wolters Kluwer, Springer/Nature, BMJ swap around all the time

 

[Pickle85]

Routledge is part of Taylor & Francis not Elsevier, however the staff of all the major publishers like Wiley, Wolters Kluwer, Springer/Nature, BMJ swap around all the time

Wow, I've worked in academic publishing for 20 years and for some reason have always thought T&F were part of Elsevier. That's wild. I'm at Bloomsbury Ac these days.

 

[Red in STL]

Wow, I've worked in academic publishing for 20 years and for some reason have always thought T&F were part of Elsevier. That's wild. I'm at Bloomsbury Ac these days.

It's hard to keep track of sometimes, especially in the 2000-2015 period where there was a lot of buying and selling, what do you do there? I'm involved in the website side, creating/updating them

 

[Pickle85]

It's hard to keep track of sometimes, especially in the 2000-2015 period where there was a lot of buying and selling, what do you do there? I'm involved in the website side, creating/updating them

Ha, yep, everything seems to have coalesced/be coalescing around a handful of major players. I'm in editorial...I look after one of the academic lists. Just hoping academic publishing remains a financially viable career until I retire!

 

[Red in STL]

Ha, yep, everything seems to have coalesced/be coalescing around a handful of major players. I'm in editorial...I look after one of the academic lists. Just hoping academic publishing remains a financially viable career until I retire!

Well I'm safe as that's coming soon

I don't see academic publishing going away, the big players are expanding their portfolios all the time, reputable journals/books will always find a home, I worked on The Lancet for 10+ years, they had 4 journals then, now they have 20 odd, I currently work on Cell Press, they had 4 when I first worked on them 20 odd years ago, now they have more than 50, Nature and BMJ have expanded over the years quite a vit as well

 

[Pickle85]

Well I'm safe as that's coming soon

I don't see academic publishing going away, the big players are expanding their portfolios all the time, reputable journals/books will always find a home, I worked on The Lancet for 10+ years, they had 4 journals then, now they have 20 odd, I currently work on Cell Press, they had 4 when I first worked on them 20 odd years ago, now they have more than 50, Nature and BMJ have expanded over the years quite a vit as well

Ugh, I'm jealous! Enjoy it mate...multiple decades in the industry means you'll have deserved it!

 

[Red in STL]

Ugh, I'm jealous! Enjoy it mate...multiple decades in the industry means you'll have deserved it!

I'll be enjoying it for sure, 27 years I've been doing this stuff, Windows 3.1, 340Mb HD's. floppy disks and Netscape Navigator are a distant memory now

 

[Tibs]

Hopefully GBNews and the Daily Mail go soon

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

Hopefully GBNews and the Daily Mail go soon

Well apparently GB News is haemorrhaging cash.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

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[Boycott]

I used to watch Vice documentaries in the early-mid 2010s. There's still people from that era in digital media I follow. Wonder though how much of an impact social media has been that you can eliminate the middle-man of an editor or guidelines. In the sense that aspiring journalists can now build their own follower base as social media commentators then open up a Substack for paid content rather than needing to breakthrough with paid content to build a following.

Tangentially I've seen this a lot in sport media. People used to become big by blogging that led to work with big media outlets. Michael Cox from Zonal Marking for example or Sid Lowe. They offered quality content and a different form of content (one tactical, the other historical) but now football twitter influencers go viral all the time and get paid to promote things.

 

[Murder on Zidane's Floor]

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[Pexbo]

I think one of the problems with traditional news media becoming unprofitable is that ultimately all you are going to be left with is oligarch owned news media which have no interest in high quality and unbiased investigative journalism.

 

[Red in STL]

I think one of the problems with traditional news media becoming unprofitable is that ultimately all you are going to be left with is oligarch owned news media which have no interest in high quality and unbiased investigative journalism.

That ship has long since sailed!

 

[VorZakone]

I think one of the problems with traditional news media becoming unprofitable is that ultimately all you are going to be left with is oligarch owned news media which have no interest in high quality and unbiased investigative journalism.

Has the internet killed traditional media?

 

[Red in STL]

Has the internet killed traditional media?

Essentially yes

 

[simonhch]

Quality content also fights the battle of the incredibly limited attention span of the average person. They want rapidly consumed, superficial content. Then you have all the social media platforms contributing to the dummification of our populations, and people’s willingness to get their stories and news from completely unqualified, unsubstantiated amateur sources. I don’t think there’s much place for real journalism in the modern world. It’s becoming increasingly niche. You have a really well scoured article, and people either can’t be bothered to read it, or it’s gets shouted down by the “fake news” crowd. Anything that isn’t some moron, spouting personal opinions on a platform for adolescents, is basically brandished as part of the media establishment and immediately vilified.

We just have to face that the world is getting a lot stupider year on year. And because of that we will have less and less sources for quality content as the laws of supply and demand crush the market.