Midfield Balance (with charts!)

Walrus

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There is always a lot of talk about what sort of midfielder we need at United, and what a "balanced midfield" looks like. This is my take which hopefully will prompt some discussion.

Broadly speaking I think you can divide midfielders along 2 axis - how attack/defence minded they are, and whether they are more of playmaker or a box-to-box/workhorse/physical type. Essentially this;



Of course, exactly what type of midfield each team wants will vary depending their formation and style of play etc.

In a 4-2-3-1 you will usually want two defence-minded players in the double-pivot, and can then afford a more attacking player operating as a #10.
Liverpool's 4-3-3 tends to rely on a very hard-working and fairly defensive trio, allowing the front three more freedom and less defensive responsibility.
Barcelona's classic 4-3-3 put a lot of creative emphasis on the midfield, requiring more of a slant towards the "playmaker" side of the axis, and a balance between attack and defence - you wouldnt really call Xavi or Iniesta AMs or DMs.

In any of the examples though, the key factor is balance, based on the role that the midfield plays in each team. Unless you are prime Barcelona, you are usually going to want someone on the "playmaker" side of the grid, and someone on the "box-to-box" side at least. Scholes and Keane. Jorginho and Kovacic. England's Rice/Phillips partnership is criticised because neither are particularly good on the ball, the same criticism levelled at McFred.

Its worth pointing out that this model does nothing to consider the quality of each player. You can have the perfectly balanced midfield, but if the players just arent good enough then it isnt going to matter.

To give a bit more context, this is where I would place some of the current (and past) United midfielders on this grid;



It would come to no great surprise that McTominay and Fred occupy similar spots, but this isnt about whether Fred should be a few inches further along the "defensive" axis, its about the requirements for a functioning, balanced midfield. The above shows quite clearly in United's case that a Carrick-like player would be an ideal partner for either Fred or McTominay (give the relatively defensive nature of the double pivot in the 4-2-3-1) - again, not rocket science. Conversely, Pogba is more of an attacking player - perhaps too much so for a double pivot - but if you stick him next to a completely defensive box-to-box player like Kante (as has been done for France) it balances the equation.

I appreciate that this may all seem like basic stuff, but I think that having a more visual representation can be a big help when understanding why some midfields just naturally work so well, whilst others struggle.
 

Kentonio

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but if you stick him next to a completely defensive box-to-box player like Kante (as has been done for France) it balances the equation.
Small point, but Kante isn't a completely defensive B2B midfielder. His value comes from his constant attempts to win turnovers and drive forward quickly to launch attacks. If you force him into a fully defensive role to compensate for a pure attacking CM like Pogba then he makes Pogba look better for sure, but I feel like you lose some of what makes Kante such a complete player himself.
 

UpWithRivers

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There is always a lot of talk about what sort of midfielder we need at United, and what a "balanced midfield" looks like. This is my take which hopefully will prompt some discussion.

Broadly speaking I think you can divide midfielders along 2 axis - how attack/defence minded they are, and whether they are more of playmaker or a box-to-box/workhorse/physical type. Essentially this;



Of course, exactly what type of midfield each team wants will vary depending their formation and style of play etc.

In a 4-2-3-1 you will usually want two defence-minded players in the double-pivot, and can then afford a more attacking player operating as a #10.
Liverpool's 4-3-3 tends to rely on a very hard-working and fairly defensive trio, allowing the front three more freedom and less defensive responsibility.
Barcelona's classic 4-3-3 put a lot of creative emphasis on the midfield, requiring more of a slant towards the "playmaker" side of the axis, and a balance between attack and defence - you wouldnt really call Xavi or Iniesta AMs or DMs.

In any of the examples though, the key factor is balance, based on the role that the midfield plays in each team. Unless you are prime Barcelona, you are usually going to want someone on the "playmaker" side of the grid, and someone on the "box-to-box" side at least. Scholes and Keane. Jorginho and Kovacic. England's Rice/Phillips partnership is criticised because neither are particularly good on the ball, the same criticism levelled at McFred.

Its worth pointing out that this model does nothing to consider the quality of each player. You can have the perfectly balanced midfield, but if the players just arent good enough then it isnt going to matter.

To give a bit more context, this is where I would place some of the current (and past) United midfielders on this grid;



It would come to no great surprise that McTominay and Fred occupy similar spots, but this isnt about whether Fred should be a few inches further along the "defensive" axis, its about the requirements for a functioning, balanced midfield. The above shows quite clearly in United's case that a Carrick-like player would be an ideal partner for either Fred or McTominay (give the relatively defensive nature of the double pivot in the 4-2-3-1) - again, not rocket science. Conversely, Pogba is more of an attacking player - perhaps too much so for a double pivot - but if you stick him next to a completely defensive box-to-box player like Kante (as has been done for France) it balances the equation.

I appreciate that this may all seem like basic stuff, but I think that having a more visual representation can be a big help when understanding why some midfields just naturally work so well, whilst others struggle.
You forgot DVB. I would also class Pogba more of a Box to Box/Attacking midfielder.
 
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Hammondo

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I don't agree with where you have put pogba. I would not put him as a playmaker.
 

Physiocrat

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I like the distinctions but it really needs to be merged with what you want out of a midfield along with general tactics to make it more useful.
 

rcoobc

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I don't agree with playmaker being the opposite of box to box.
 

Walrus

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Small point, but Kante isn't a completely defensive B2B midfielder. His value comes from his constant attempts to win turnovers and drive forward quickly to launch attacks. If you force him into a fully defensive role to compensate for a pure attacking CM like Pogba then he makes Pogba look better for sure, but I feel like you lose some of what makes Kante such a complete player himself.
Just my 2c, but I thought Kante looked at his best at Leicester, where he tended to play a more defensive role. At Chelsea it felt at times as if he was being forced to get further forward but didn’t look entirely comfortable.

actually reminds me of a lad I play 7-a-side with (who we nicknamed Kante). He was immense as an engine room player for us, but started getting delusions of grandeur and wanting to be more of an AM - very frustrating!
 
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Italy are the perfect example of a balanced midfield.

Ball-playing defensive anchor in Jorginho
All round conductor in Veratti
Box-to-box energy in Barella
 

OrdinaryVice

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This sounded like a great post because i thought you were going to use data from previous matches determine where each player stands. Without it it's hard to judge what actually is balanced, and while i agree with a lot of your assessments i can't help but feel like the lack of actual data hinders the potential of this post. Does France actually work with only Pogba and Kante? Wans't Matuidi sharing some of it too?
 

Cascarino

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Just my 2c, but I thought Kante looked at his best at Leicester, where he tended to play a more defensive role. At Chelsea it felt at times as if he was being forced to get further forward but didn’t look entirely comfortable.

actually reminds me of a lad I play 7-a-side with (who we nicknamed Kante). He was immense as an engine room player for us, but started getting delusions of grandeur and wanting to be more of an AM - very frustrating!
I actually think Kante played a similar role at Leicester, due to the style and personnel of the team he may have spent a lot of time deeper than his current incarnation though, as Leicester did often play on the counter, but he always had a lot of freedom to break with the ball and get up the pitch. Drinkwater was always the deepest midfielder and a lot more stationary so gave Kante that freedom.
 

11101

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I would swap Bruno and Pogba around personally.

The other factor that is most important when considering balance is the type of footballer they are. Are they a Fred who likes to pass quickly and frequently with one or two touches, or a Matic who likes to hold onto the ball and run with it. The two often don't mix well.
 

babablue

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Bruno is hardworking and will run all the way back to defend sometimes, but he's not a box to box. I'll also put Pogba slightly to the right of the vertical axis. He's a box to box that often neglects his defensive duties.

As for the perfect partner for McFred, based on the graph, Scholes is perfect. He's attack minded, but not enough to leave us exposed, and can cover when the box to box marauds forward. Carrick is good too, but too defensive which is not what we need for most of our matches.
 

UnrelatedPsuedo

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You can’t plot midfielders on that graph. The two axis aren’t a product of each other. No relationship at all.
 

WR10

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Ah. I thought these graphs would include actual data points for the plotting.
 

Trequarista10

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Bruno is hardworking and will run all the way back to defend sometimes, but he's not a box to box. I'll also put Pogba slightly to the right of the vertical axis. He's a box to box that often neglects his defensive duties.

As for the perfect partner for McFred, based on the graph, Scholes is perfect. He's attack minded, but not enough to leave us exposed, and can cover when the box to box marauds forward. Carrick is good too, but too defensive which is not what we need for most of our matches.
This is exactly what I was going to post.

I would also add I'm not too sure if Garner is as clear cut in the defensive-playmaker category, as he would also press aggressively and bomb forwards for the U23s a fair bit. Need to see more of him at professional level to judge.
 

Teja

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If you have the data handy already, could you make a midfield aggregate across various key stats like xA, key passes, deep progressions, tackles, pressures etc. (per 90s)?

A naive approach could be just to take the starting 3 of each big club and sum up the stats from each individual player. Fuzzy abstractions like "playmaker" / "attacking" / "box to box" make me uncomfortable.
 

Trequarista10

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You can’t plot midfielders on that graph. The two axis aren’t a product of each other. No relationship at all.
I think the issue is that playmaker and box-to-box aren't polar opposites on the same spectrum. I see OP's logic as the trend is often to be one or the other, but there are also plenty of box to box playmakers (Gascoigne, Fabregas, Gerrard, young Scholes all to varying extents).
 

D4X73r

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I think the issue is that playmaker and box-to-box aren't polar opposites on the same spectrum. I see OP's logic as the trend is often to be one or the other, but there are also plenty of box to box playmakers (Gascoigne, Fabregas, Gerrard, young Scholes all to varying extents).
Then those examples are in the mid of this axis. If one is in the mid, doesn't mean he is neither, but he has the same strength in both categorys.
 

edcunited1878

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Midfield functions as the heart of the team. So how your midfield plays together should dictate to some relevance of how you're going to play on the pitch.

Having players of the requisite ability on an individual basis will help any type of balance. Then it's up to the manager and coaches to deploy a two or three person central midfield. Modern offensive width is generated by fullbacks or wingbacks and/or a wide player across an advanced attacking line (e.g. Rashford) with the ability to score as an inside forward.

I just don't get why people don't understand that if you play two players in the middle, you have to be much more well rounded going forwards and defending (thus being in the middle of the chart). If you're a top player like a Scholes, Pirlo, Iniesta, Busquets, etc. you can play anywhere in the middle, as was the case with Carrick. Not the most physical or fastest or probably can't press the entire match, but when you own possession and you're still willing to win the ball back and just pick up runners when defending, you'll be okay because your positioning is solid.

Bayern Munich play with a 4231 and they have been very successful. That may change under Nagalsmann, however their double pivot of Kimmich and Goreztka is top class in the way in functions together and on an individual basis, they are technically proficient and have the physical traits to close down in midfield, to chase when needed, to cover, etc.
 

Trequarista10

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Then those examples are in the mid of this axis. If one is in the mid, doesn't mean he is neither, but he has the same strength in both categorys.
Correct reading of a functional graph would mean they are neither.
 

Maagge

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I'm generally not a fan of "graphs" where people just put in their feelings about something.
 

simonhch

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@Walrus

I very much like what you have done here. I have made some suggestions to your chart below, as I would like to change the spectrum from Playmaker/box to box, to playmaker/ball winner. Often where someone sits on that axis, combined with the positioning on the attacking spectrum, is a better indicator of whether they are a box to box player.

Below I have positioned what I would see to be the perfect balance of a midfield, and I feel this is true regardless of whether it is a 4-2-3-1, or a 4-3-3 with a regular or inverted triangle. It just comes down to your deployment of the assets tactically, not so much the characteristics. Of course certain characteristics force certain tactics, but these qualities allow flexible and effective deployment of most 3 man midfield combinations. I have placed the three players on the chart according to their ideal position in terms of characteristics, with arrows to designation the acceptable leaning of qualities each player could go in to fit a balanced model. My leaning towards two out of three players having playmaking leaning qualities, is because in my opinion you want the midfield to have a chance creation and possession retention bias. Not only does this produce more aesthetically pleasing, attack minded, football, but it is also a well tested hypothesis that possession retention is a very effective form of defence. The elevated passing quality inherent to playmakers over ball winners can be used in a wide variety of strategic systems, whether it be slow possession heavy football, or fast transition football requiring accurate penetrating forwarded passes. The idea of the ball winning midfielder to be the most defensive, seems as outdated and outmoded assumpution at this point; as pressure on the ball should be applied throughout the tactical framework, and ideally you'd want the transition points between defence and midfield, and midfield and attack to be linked by players of good technical/playmaking ability.

 
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