Mike's Sheep Draft QF - Sjor vs. Jim

With players at their career peak, who will win?


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Michaelf7777777

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Sjor Tactics

Switcheroo between 442 and 433 systems, 11 hard-working players with all midfielders and attackers comfortable in various positions and roles. In additions to 2 main transitions you have multiple options where Eto'o(or even Tostao) can drop into midfield and make it a midfield five.
If both fullbacks find themselves up you have Edwards who can drop back and make it a back 3 or even Van Hanegem can do that like he did in the 74 team at times in addition to him dropping into LB role when needed like it was case in Feyenoord.

Defence:
Replacing Rio in the modern United Holy Trinity is probably the only player that is a clear upgrade on him given the style of play - Bobby Moore joining United greats Vidic and van der Sar.
On the left is one of the GOATs in his position Ashley Cole while on the other side we have Fazlagic who in his time would be the most expensive defender in the world if there wasnt for the horrendous knee injury, almost won the Euro with Yugoslavia but they lost in the Final replay against Italy, later he was named in the Team of the Tournament.

Midfield:
Duncan Edwards as a defensive b2b/defensive midfielder, providing cover for the Van Hanegem, De Bruyne and Best to do their magic. Best obviously the star of the team surrounded by selfless players around but also players that can very easily control and dominate the game on their own.

Attack:
When your attackers are the most hard working players in the team you know you are sorted. Both will do everything for the team and individually both capable of providing magic on the regular basis.
New addition is Tostao which in a grand scheme of things changes very little, it will just make this team even a better one in possession and fits like a glue in there as a selfless player with great ability.

Jim's Tactics

Tactics: 4-4-2

Strategy
: Pretty much the same as the game before in terms of being compact, well-organized at all time, making it extremely hard to break in the defensive phase.

I needed a new CB and while he might not be the most shiniest name on CB list Alessandro Costacurta puts pretty much a final touch to that 1st round defence. The man who was a starting CB forming one of the greatest defences in Serie A and football history during his time in Milan.




Here he goes along with his old partner Tassotti and flanked with Beckenbauer and Facchetti from each side making what was the goal all along and that is having GOAT's in multiple positions surrounded with complementary pieces around them.

Defensive instructions: always compact, midfield and wingers in support. While being compact in terms of two defensive lines between midfield and attack, stay compact in defensive line and push bepo's wingers on the flanks with not much space in the middle.


Attacking instructions: Let the sense of initiative and the sense of a more aggressive team to the opponent. The structural positions of the players in a 4-4-2 always allows them space once the ball is won. Play directly and use the wings to make the pitch as big as possible. Use the genius of Beckenbauer to full extent in the attack whether it is about attacking fast and directly or providing a more calming influence for the team if needed.

Target Mirsad Fazlagić RB side specifically because as good as he was, he is still pretty much a weak link in that side. (video of him expected, not needed for me as I watched him already...).

Charles and Puskas are making it extremely complimentary pairing upfront. And while the opponent have a great CB duo it is a still a stylistic nightmare in terms of covering and shooting them down.




Ferenc Puskás; A portrait of an icon (more to follow...)


Conclusion: a game of fine margins as smart people would say. Best of luck Bepo, you old dog.
 

Synco

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Two very good teams. Beam has massive GOAT power with Puskas/Beckenbauer/Facchetti, but I can see Sjor's team working together extremely well in all areas, and Best should be thriving. Question mark is:
Target Mirsad Fazlagić RB side specifically because as good as he was, he is still pretty much a weak link in that side. (video of him expected, not needed for me as I watched him already...).
@Jim Beam
Can you say why? I know nothing about the player. Facchetti/Barnes is of course a strong flank.

I also love that even Van der Sar moves in Sjor's formation graphic, well done.
 
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Šjor Bepo

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Good luck peak beam.
Not much to say, great side with little to no weaknesses.

Going through the tactics i can see his side struggle a bit because if one wants to defend deliveries from wide area there isnt a single player from the history of the game that id pick before Vidic.
In addition to that im very happy with my protection of the flanks and not overly bothered with quality of his wing pairs(his central core is much better in comparison to the wide area).
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Replacing Rio in the modern United Holy Trinity is probably the only player that is a clear upgrade on him given the style of play - Bobby Moore joining United greats Vidic and van der Sar.
Nah, don't agree with that. Rio's pace in recovery was a huge asset in his partnership with Vidic who wasn't the quickest of the lot. Moore while probably the better CB compared to Rio, was not the quickest himself.

I'd take Rio-Vidic everytime over Moore-Vidic.

Doesn't matter in this game that much against Puskas-Charles of course.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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On the game, that is two well built teams and @Michaelf7777777 is doing a terrible job with the draws. Almost all the SF contenders would be eliminated before the semifinals.

I feel Barnes/Facchetti will have a good time here and so will Best/Cole.

At this point, the only significant difference perhaps is in the goalscorers. I'd take Puskas/Charles ahead of Tostao/Etoo when it comes to pure goal scoring.

Tilting towards Jim at this point but I'll hold my vote till later after they have their friendly boring discussion while being appreciative of each other's team and calling it thin margins *pukes*

Edit: Jim really should have upgraded Michel. He had fecking Figo available who works like a charm in this setup. Costacurta is such a lame reinforcement which will have no say on anyone's vote here. Waste of a round I am afraid.
 

Šjor Bepo

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Nah, don't agree with that. Rio's pace in recovery was a huge asset in his partnership with Vidic who wasn't the quickest of the lot. Moore while probably the better CB compared to Rio, was not the quickest himself.

I'd take Rio-Vidic everytime over Moore-Vidic.

Doesn't matter in this game that much against Puskas-Charles of course.
i wouldnt take him either but you are over-complicating, they are of the same style and Moore is a bit better so thats why i said its a upgrade, nothing to do with the actual partnership with the other two.

On the game, that is two well built teams and @Michaelf7777777 is doing a terrible job with the draws. Almost all the SF contenders would be eliminated before the semifinals.

I feel Barnes/Facchetti will have a good time here and so will Best/Cole.

At this point, the only significant difference perhaps is in the goalscorers. I'd take Puskas/Charles ahead of Tostao/Etoo when it comes to pure goal scoring.

Tilting towards Jim at this point but I'll hold my vote till later after they have their friendly boring discussion while being appreciative of each other's team and calling it thin margins *pukes*

Edit: Jim really should have upgraded Michel. He had fecking Figo available who works like a charm in this setup. Costacurta is such a lame reinforcement which will have no say on anyone's vote here. Waste of a round I am afraid.
and on the other side of the spectrum you are over simplifing with good old individual battles, bless them.
Facchetti - Barnes is a great side but i feel Fazlagic individually with a lot of help of a compact system and hardworking teammates(De Bruyne, Edwards, Eto'o) can shut it down or at least limit the danger to a minimum. On the other side im not at all bothered with the other side of Beams team as Tassotti will do feck all and i dont rate Michel, Cole will wipe the floor with him on both ends but to get back to the point, with one side of beams team being so much better then the other its going to be much easier to defend against + it will open spaces for Best to exploit on the counter.
 

Šjor Bepo

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Iconic game from the coin expert against Cruyff and Neeskens.
 

Enigma_87

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Tasty matchup this. Both sides look great.

One round ago I'd tilt it to Jim, but Sjor managed to close the gap with Tostao. I'd agree with some of the above that Costacurta doesn't make much difference and Figo instead of Michel would've been a great round for Jim.

Nevertheless stylistically Jim's defence looks better with Billy in it.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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i wouldnt take him either but you are over-complicating, they are of the same style and Moore is a bit better so thats why i said its a upgrade, nothing to do with the actual partnership with the other two.
Don't think I am over complicating it. Be it Terry-Carvalho or Vidic-Rio, the pace of Carvalho/Rio played a great part in making them almost unbeatable at times. Better player doesn't necessarily mean a better partnership.
Facchetti - Barnes is a great side but i feel Fazlagic individually with a lot of help of a compact system and hardworking teammates(De Bruyne, Edwards, Eto'o) can shut it down or at least limit the danger to a minimum
This is debatable. I don't think either of Edwards/De Bruyne will be able to help much. This is a perfect setup for Puskas to impact things from deep and Edwards would constantly have to keep an eye on him.

Both Neeskens and Stielike were great on the ball and then you have Beckenbauer who will build up the numbers in the middle. So De Bruyne will have his hands full centrally off the ball.

On the other side im not at all bothered with the other side of Beams team as Tassotti will do feck all and i dont rate Michel, Cole will wipe the floor with him on both ends
I don't rate Michel going forward that much as well, but he had good workrate. I don't think Cole will wipe the floor with him while attacking.

Of course, I would still expect Best/cole to have joy down that flank like I mentioned earlier.
 

Šjor Bepo

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Don't think I am over complicating it. Be it Terry-Carvalho or Vidic-Rio, the pace of Carvalho/Rio played a great part in making them almost unbeatable at times. Better player doesn't necessarily mean a better partnership.
Calm down, breath and read again what i said in my previous response.


This is debatable. I don't think either of Edwards/De Bruyne will be able to help much. This is a perfect setup for Puskas to impact things from deep and Edwards would constantly have to keep an eye on him.
tbf i hesitated before i included Edwards as i expect him to move around Puskas most of the time but then i thought if i really believe in the defending as a unit and all this crap about flexibility of the system then i should include him.

Both Neeskens and Stielike were great on the ball and then you have Beckenbauer who will build up the numbers in the middle. So De Bruyne will have his hands full centrally off the ball.
I honestly dont think Kaiser will be able to join the midfield as much as he would like. In case they lose the ball with him out of position they would be fecked because of the pure numbers id have on that defensive line and the pace of attackers. He can switch with Stielike but then numbers wise it stays the same. Team and De Bruyne can easily move about for KDB to help out both on the wing and in the middle, specially with little to no threat on the other side.
 

Jim Beam

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On the other side im not at all bothered with the other side of Beams team as Tassotti will do feck all and i dont rate Michel, Cole will wipe the floor with him on both ends but to get back to the point,
Oh, we are already in a nonsense phase. :lol: One post is about defending as a unit and flexibility of a team and then Cole of all people whiping the floor with Michel.

I did single out Fazlagic as I believe you, while Fazlagic definitely not belonging in this company, will have structural problems defending as a team on that side.

Will add a bit more about Fazlagic shortly, good and bad about your team and why while loving Tostao have now a few problems with Edwards in your team.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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Calm down, breath and read again what i said in my previous response.
Sure, I get it now. You don't actually upgrade the partnership, but conveniently call it an individual upgrade. My bad.

tbf i hesitated before i included Edwards as i expect him to move around Puskas most of the time but then i thought if i really believe in the defending as a unit and all this crap about flexibility of the system then i should include him.
Puskas is part of the left side attacking unit as well to be fair, so should be part of the original equation and an opposition player should account for him. I wouldn't call it overwhelming defensive support for Fazlagic.. I should watch the 1968 Euro final again to look at his battle against Facchetti

I honestly dont think Kaiser will be able to join the midfield as much as he would like. In case they lose the ball with him out of position they would be fecked because of the pure numbers id have on that defensive line and the pace of attackers. He can switch with Stielike but then numbers wise it stays the same. Team and De Bruyne can easily move about for KDB to help out both on the wing and in the middle, specially with little to no threat on the other side.
Yea, I agree Kaiser's impact being affected due to that side of your attack , but he would probably still have some say from deeper areas.
 

Šjor Bepo

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Oh, we are already in a nonsense phase. :lol: One post is about defending as a unit and flexibility of a team and then Cole of all people whiping the floor with Michel.

I did single out Fazlagic as I believe you, while Fazlagic definitely not belonging in this company, will have structural problems defending as a team on that side.

Will add a bit more about Fazlagic shortly, good and bad about your team and why while loving Tostao have now a few problems with Edwards in your team.
I just dont rate him after watching a fair share of his games because of Butragueno <3 and i rate Cole almost as a GOAT lb and when i consider who is behind Michel and the fact you have a towering striker up front that isnt very mobile and wont drift out wide then yeah, i have no problems with saying Cole will wipe the floor with Michel. That being nonsense to you or not.

As for Fazlagic, yes he is the worst player in my team but id rate him higher then Tassotti(just because you are a part of a great team that doesnt make you a great player, solid/good player nothing more nothing less) and Michel.
 

Jim Beam

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As for Fazlagic, yes he is the worst player in my team but id rate him higher then Tassotti(just because you are a part of a great team that doesnt make you a great player, solid/good player nothing more nothing less) and Michel.
What specifically do you rate about Mirsad Fazlagic?

Cole can stop some of Michel offensively, but he won't stop you being stretched, he can't stop those crosses in (there is a reason he is there and not some other winger not called Beckham or Figo) and in general there is no way he can whipe the floor in other direction with him. So yeah, it's a nonsense.
 

Šjor Bepo

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What specifically do you rate about Mirsad Fazlagic?

Cole can stop some of Michel offensively, but he won't stop you being stretched, he can't stop those crosses in (there is a reason he is there and not some other winger not called Beckham or Figo) and in general there is no way he can whipe the floor in other direction with him. So yeah, it's a nonsense.
Only watched him one game where he looked like a good defender and average going forward so from my eye test i cant say much so i believe what i read and from there it looks like he was one of the best in the world in his position at the time, inclusion to the Euro Team of the Tournament shall back that nicely. Just a shame for him as i dont really care that he got a bad knee injury just before the transfer to Juventus which would done wonders for his reputation.

Id trust Cole having a 1v1 against him all day long so it gives a team an option where everyone else can focus on other areas and other players. You can still try to go there, Michel will do feck all and naturally the focus will turn to the left side more(similar to the United side pre James).
 

Jim Beam

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So, will address several issues here and try to give most of the thoughts around it.

Bepo has a wonderful team, I said it in the 1st round and say the same now. Adding Tastao makes it even a bit sweeter upfront considering his playmaking and short passes ability. No one is certainly wiping the floor with anyone here and while Bepo team hits many right notes in terms of a balance and synergy, mine has also everyone fully comfortable in their position with the support of some exceptional players on an all-time level to make the difference here.

Let's go to the more important part. First, this is not the team that relies purely on crosses and Charles heading it into the net, as judging by that you could also put Maguire in the defense, not Vidic. It has ariel threat, Puskas behind Charles playing off the main striker and upgoing midfielders or wingers with a stellar goalscoring record. Feck, aside from Tasotti and Costacurta anyone can score in this team!

It is nonsense (once again) that Michel will be wiped by Cole when you can't stop his crossing ability once your team is stretched in the attacking phase. You just can't as he will always have enough space to put some crosses at least and in that department, he was fantastic (you can disagree of course, but you're wrong ). As with Beckham (Beckham was always 1st choice here and was better, don't get me wrong, but in terms of playing style there are similarities), you can't stop Beckham crossing once you're stretched as a team. And it is not only high crosses but low crosses for Puskas or upcoming midfielders which were his forte. Considering that, you can't put him out of the game, least of all wipe the floor with him. I also disagree with the notion he would be stopped as a goal-scoring option, but let's disagree there if you want as I think Cole can't do shit upfront if your plan is to simply mark Michel out of the game.

Am not the biggest fan of Michel in the world, but he was pretty damn good and most importantly a brilliant fit here.
Also, this is great by any means looking at his peak:



21 goals in 66 games for Spain too. To present it then like my side has only a threat from the left-side is very much false. And everyone else being able to focus on other players.



To make the case clearer here am not selling him to you as your mind is made but to the voters. And as I said he fits brilliantly in the team playing style and their strengths. He was on my shortlist, he can be upgraded, but as I said there are 2 wingers in terms of this team I would rather have. Charles, Puskas, Facchetti, Neeskens, Beckenbauer and even Stielike don't need that much selling I think.

Then you have Barnes on Fazlagic...



As for Fazlagic @Synco

Only watched him one game where he looked like a good defender and average going forward so from my eye test i cant say much so i believe what i read and from there it looks like he was one of the best in the world in his position at the time, inclusion to the Euro Team of the Tournament shall back that nicely. Just a shame for him as i dont really care that he got a bad knee injury just before the transfer to Juventus which would done wonders for his reputation.
He was regarded as better going forward and more offensive type. Tbf, this is also a result of every good full-back at the time who popped up in the attacking area and manage to cross the ball regularly being highly regarded in the attacking sense. He was solid, he could run all day, but he wasn't the greatest defender out there. In terms of the all-time Yugoslavian team, both Stanković and Jusufi were more rated as right-backs and I would be all over Jusufi, let alone Fazlagic in a game like this and with such fine margins. As solid as he was, you will not see him pretty much in any all-time Yugoslavian best teams and to put it politely "we" were shit at right back. Go to the left side and everyone will have his 1st thought on Zebec. He would be attacked by Barnes and occasionally supported by Facchetti in his area, so tbf I would put much more defensively solid right-backs at questions here with Edwards having to take more eyes on his not preferred right side in this case while watching his back at the same time on an upcoming player from behind.

The case of rating a site or not, but I found it quite useful at times. Fazlagic is being rated as the 8th best full-back in Yugoslavian history. Solid, but far from what you want here as been said.

https://www.xtratime.org/threads/all-time-yugoslavia-squad.247623/

Few more points on bepo's team. Having Tastao (as lovely player as he is) puts him in a much more possession-based team than the one he had in the 1st round where he was much more direct going forward. That changes things a bit and here is where I would like a more controlling DM then Edwards in this case. And while you gained a lot of in terms of playmaking upfront, you also lost a bit of aggressivity (not many better than Tevez in that area) while facing a team with Beckenbauer playmaking behind.

To cut it short, I think I have a better defense and more goalscoring ability in my attack.

Long post, but not sure how much I can write later. God bless and don't be harsh on Michael bepo. After all, it's his draft.
 
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Jim Beam

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As for Fazlagic, yes he is the worst player in my team but id rate him higher then Tassotti(just because you are a part of a great team that doesnt make you a great player, solid/good player nothing more nothing less) and Michel.
Just seen this and a quick one since you are all about the system and dynamics of the team. You would actually put Fazlagic on that right back before Tassotti in my team? I wouldn't also put Tassotti in your team seeing the tactics but that doesn't make this any less of a thoughtless statement.
 

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Rate Butcher in the same ballpark as Costacurta so it looks fairly similar, but still a quality team with a cracking defensive unit for the Kaiser.
 

GodShaveTheQueen

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One thing I forgot to add. There is one avenue which @Šjor Bepo didn't explore and that is of a top notch header up front instead of Tostao. Kocsis was available. De Bruyne is a terrific crosser and then you have Best. Etoo and Kocsis would have troubled Kaiser and Costacurta IMO. Also adds a more prolific scoring pair. Probably would have tilted my vote his way.
 

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Change my mind all the time on this, as both teams can make a case of winning this.

Went with Jim, as I just like a good 4-4-2.
 

Šjor Bepo

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Just seen this and a quick one since you are all about the system and dynamics of the team. You would actually put Fazlagic on that right back before Tassotti in my team? I wouldn't also put Tassotti in your team seeing the tactics but that doesn't make this any less of a thoughtless statement.
I never said i would, id keep Tassotti as he fits better with Kaiser. I was probably harsh on Tassotti when i said Fazlagic is better, id probably rate them on a same level but id have Michel as the clear worst one thats for sure.

One thing I forgot to add. There is one avenue which @Šjor Bepo didn't explore and that is of a top notch header up front instead of Tostao. Kocsis was available. De Bruyne is a terrific crosser and then you have Best. Etoo and Kocsis would have troubled Kaiser and Costacurta IMO. Also adds a more prolific scoring pair. Probably would have tilted my vote his way.
Never knew City is playing with Bobo Vieri up front.....De Bruyne is probably the master of a drilled cross so id say having quick and agile players has more benefits then having a classic n9. I know Kocsis isnt one but as most i went full muppet for Pele so Kocsis wasnt available after that, could have done a lot of things if i didnt went full muppet.
 

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Never knew City is playing with Bobo Vieri up front.....
If your point is he only suits the City setup, that is the end of the debate in my books.

I think his curlers are as good as his drilled crosses. Watch his delivery in indirect freekicks from the right side for example. Quite Beckham-esque. Have seem City centre backs score of them often enough.
 

Šjor Bepo

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It is nonsense (once again) that Michel will be wiped by Cole when you can't stop his crossing ability once your team is stretched in the attacking phase. You just can't as he will always have enough space to put some crosses at least and in that department, he was fantastic (you can disagree of course, but you're wrong ). As with Beckham (Beckham was always 1st choice here and was better, don't get me wrong, but in terms of playing style there are similarities), you can't stop Beckham crossing once you're stretched as a team. And it is not only high crosses but low crosses for Puskas or upcoming midfielders which were his forte. Considering that, you can't put him out of the game, least of all wipe the floor with him. I also disagree with the notion he would be stopped as a goal-scoring option, but let's disagree there if you want as I think Cole can't do shit upfront if your plan is to simply mark Michel out of the game.

Am not the biggest fan of Michel in the world, but he was pretty damn good and most importantly a brilliant fit here.
Also, this is great by any means looking at his peak:



21 goals in 66 games for Spain too. To present it then like my side has only a threat from the left-side is very much false. And everyone else being able to focus on other players.



To make the case clearer here am not selling him to you as your mind is made but to the voters. And as I said he fits brilliantly in the team playing style and their strengths. He was on my shortlist, he can be upgraded, but as I said there are 2 wingers in terms of this team I would rather have. Charles, Puskas, Facchetti, Neeskens, Beckenbauer and even Stielike don't need that much selling I think.

Then you have Barnes on Fazlagic...

He is a decent player overall but considering the company he is way out of his depth. Tassotti and Fazlagic make the cut because their role is much more limited and easier. I used to rate Michel as well, read stories in draft games before i joined playing, guy has a good reputation but then i started watching the actual games and its fair to say i didnt like what i saw. Reminds me of Helmut Haller, on paper he looks very good but feck me if i ever watched a dumber footballer - makes Alexis and Pereira look like Xavi and Iniesta.

He was regarded as better going forward and more offensive type. Tbf, this is also a result of every good full-back at the time who popped up in the attacking area and manage to cross the ball regularly being highly regarded in the attacking sense. He was solid, he could run all day, but he wasn't the greatest defender out there. In terms of the all-time Yugoslavian team, both Stanković and Jusufi were more rated as right-backs and I would be all over Jusufi, let alone Fazlagic in a game like this and with such fine margins. As solid as he was, you will not see him pretty much in any all-time Yugoslavian best teams and to put it politely "we" were shit at right back. Go to the left side and everyone will have his 1st thought on Zebec. He would be attacked by Barnes and occasionally supported by Facchetti in his area, so tbf I would put much more defensively solid right-backs at questions here with Edwards having to take more eyes on his not preferred right side in this case while watching his back at the same time on an upcoming player from behind.

The case of rating a site or not, but I found it quite useful at times. Fazlagic is being rated as the 8th best full-back in Yugoslavian history. Solid, but far from what you want here as been said.

https://www.xtratime.org/threads/all-time-yugoslavia-squad.247623/
Id only have Jusufi ahead of him, not Stankovic. This rating sides are funny, which ever you find you will find some absolute crap that nullifies the whole project, they are only good as you can use them as reminder of some players when in a drafting process.

Few more points on bepo's team. Having Tastao (as lovely player as he is) puts him in a much more possession-based team than the one he had in the 1st round where he was much more direct going forward. That changes things a bit and here is where I would like a more controlling DM then Edwards in this case. And while you gained a lot of in terms of playmaking upfront, you also lost a bit of aggressivity (not many better than Tevez in that area) while facing a team with Beckenbauer playmaking behind.
What? :lol:
Just because i get something extra in possession that doesnt make this a possession based team, and even if it does they dont lose the ability to counter.
More importantly, if they already became the possession based side why would i need a more controlling DM if the final goal is achieved?
The beauty of this setup and group of players are that they are not tied to a specific style nor system, they can switch around in games depending on situation.
Yes, i lose a bit of aggression but Tostao was still a hard working striker, at least from what you can see for Brazil. Not on Tevez level but good enough to keep both this theme alive and compactness of my unit.
 

Šjor Bepo

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If your point is he only suits the City setup, that is the end of the debate in my books.

I think his curlers are as good as his drilled crosses. Watch his delivery in indirect freekicks from the right side for example. Quite Beckham-esque. Have seem City centre backs score of them often enough.
Im confident you know how to read so i guess this is your way to start a scrimmage. Just wanted to say im not interested scrappy.
 

Jim Beam

Gets aroused by men in low socks
Joined
Feb 10, 2017
Messages
13,103
Location
All over the place
@Jim Beam good game and congrats, now you can upgrade your team with Mujo
It was too early to say thanks, so here it is. Great team and not too much of a difference really, so very harsh scoreline. Really liked your team (feck off, I mean it)

As I already mentioned, not much joy in this one when you know you're most likely here just to progress and hand your ass to enigma later.

Cheers with a little memory card from this one.