Mourinho’s plan for United?

JPRouve

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I always hold a balanced view. I don't get ridiculously angry like some do, either angrily defending that Jose won trophies here, or angrily stating that he was toxic and destroyed a lot behind the scenes.

I believe, he came in, tried to do it his way, he was told some false promises over signings, ended up with half of his preferred team, managed to win some trophies and landed us a top 2 finish. He then had a complete meltdown and left the club. Those who say he was a complete failure are wrong, and those who say he was a complete success and that he should still be here, are also wrong.

I'm sure if he was still here, Lukaku would be scoring just as much as Martial, Matic would be playing as well as he is now, we'd have signed Maguire, Wan Bissaka and either Bruno or a Bruno-type player. We'd probably be about 5th-6th, but in my view with dull, defensive, negative football and negativity around the squad and the club.

For everything that Ole has brought to this club, whether he is good enough or not, one thing I will always admire from him and thank him for as a Man United fan is for bringing the positivity, the team mentality and the hunger back to this club. He's bought himself another 12-18 months in my eyes, just to install that mentality, even if another world class manager comes in and takes this squad on or not.
That's probably what bothers me the most. During his first two seasons Mourinho spent a fortune, mainly on Lukaku, Pogba, Matic, Bailly, Sanchez, lindelof, Ibrahimovic but people make these wild claims about him being told false promises and not having his preferred signings. Then why his signings were players that he spent years talking about in the case of Pogba and players that are to this day considered to be his guys in Matic, Lukaku, Ibrahimovic while Lindelof and Bailly were supposed to come from his personal scout?

The second bolded sentences are also amazing Lukaku and Matic spent almost a year being terrible under Mourinho. And there is no point spending a top 10 all time fee on a player, if he can only score as much as a player that you already have.
 

Fracture90

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That first season was not a nightmare. It wasn't perfect but it was decent. Far from a total failure. And if he had built on his second season and actually won the league, instead of doing a Jose, very few people, if anyone in here would be whining.

Like I said, glad he is gone, but a total failure he was not.
If, if, if and some more if. If only he wasn't an abominable, egomaniacal man-child.... things may have worked. Reason why we got 2nd spot is because league was over in January and we had nothing to play for other than FA Cup and the league duebto us being out of CL by the end of February with our disgraceful performance against Sevilla, a performance he defended and not only that but he went on to belittle the club after he was criticized for early exit. Chelsea and Spurs were shiit whilst Liverpool went all in CL, just trying to finish inside top4.
 

Siorac

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I don’t know, even when he finished 2nd it was clear to see the team was going backwards. Given where it was already that was a feat in itself. That 2nd place finish is like taking home a girl, taking off her bra then finding out she has chicken breasts stuffed in her bra.
The Uefa cup wasn’t great either and we scraped through and in all honesty should have been beaten by Celta Vigo was it. That ex Man City striker saving our blushes by missing that one on the line in the dying minutes.

Jose was probably the biggest mistake this club ever made. Propbably worse than Moyes.
So sex and dinner? Fail to see the problem with that.
 

anant

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9th Penalty missed by Phil Jones who Jose wanted to bin and replace with a superior defender. Makes one think doesn't it?
Yeah, because had we had a better defender, we might have beaten the mighty Derby county within 8 penalty kicks. Plus you can't have it both ways - when Utd wins - its thanks to Mou, when we lose, it's because Ed didn't let him spend another billion
 

nokillingmoths

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I don’t know, even when he finished 2nd it was clear to see the team was going backwards. Given where it was already that was a feat in itself. That 2nd place finish is like taking home a girl, taking off her bra then finding out she has chicken breasts stuffed in her bra.
The Uefa cup wasn’t great either and we scraped through and in all honesty should have been beaten by Celta Vigo was it. That ex Man City striker saving our blushes by missing that one on the line in the dying minutes.

Jose was probably the biggest mistake this club ever made. Propbably worse than Moyes.
And bayern hit the post at 1 nil in 99, boiling a competition down to a moment is pointless.

Moyes was a bigger mistake, and like I said I am glad he is gone but my point was he wasn't a total failure and I haven't read an argument that even comes close to showing he was.
 

roonster09

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I had the same reaction regarding Rashford, Mourinho treated him like he treated Martial, they were both in trouble with Mourinho around. The difference is that Rashford had a lot more support locally.
"That's why Lukaku" jibe when Rashford and Martial failed to score. Rashford brother also posted something against Jose on Instagram which shows it wasn't all good between Jose and Rashford. IIRC Andy Mitten or someone else reported it.
 

Fracture90

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9th Penalty missed by Phil Jones who Jose wanted to bin and replace with a superior defender. Makes one think doesn't it?
He bought 2 CB's for what was a high figure at that time, only to deem them not good enough.
 

KM

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I'm entering this convo a little late here, but just to clarify. I'm absolutely not a "fanboi", I'm fairly balanced on Mourinho, he had sucess and he had failure and was rightly removed.

He did love Rashford and tried to play him as often as he could, though. I think he was one of the most played outfield players by Mourinho during his time here. I don't think its a warped view to think that.
he really didn't. Criticised him in public. It has been reported by Andy Mitten that there were problems between the both. IIRC Rashfords brother who's his agent too also posted something on ig when rashford scored twice against Spurs.
 

Andersons Dietician

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And bayern hit the post at 1 nil in 99, boiling a competition down to a moment is pointless.

Moyes was a bigger mistake, and like I said I am glad he is gone but my point was he wasn't a total failure and I haven't read an argument that even comes close to showing he was.
I suppose it comes down to what people view as failure and sucess. If you think Carling cup, Uefa cup and a 2nd place finish are all that matters then you’re going to see that as success even if they were short term things.

I view it as he set the club back 3 years of development and should really never have been hired and plastering over how poor he was and how poor the team was in those victories as a huge failure. The team never progressed and that to me is failure.

To add there was more than one moment because they laid siege to us.
 

Fracture90

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Yeah, because had we had a better defender, we might have beaten the mighty Derby county within 8 penalty kicks. Plus you can't have it both ways - when Utd wins - its thanks to Mou, when we lose, it's because Ed didn't let him spend another billion
Really tells you all you need to know when a person is defending Mourinho's defeat against a championship Derby Country side with that argument.
 

UNITED ACADEMY

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It’s been well documented that Jose fell out with Ed over not getting the players he wanted & overruling him with player sales (Pogba & Martial)

So it gets me thinking, what was his plan for United had he completely got his way?

Fellaini & Lukaku would still be here. Don’t think he would have got rid of Smalling either. Lingard would probably still be starting. Shaw, Pogba & Martial would be gone. We know he wanted the likes of Sandro, Maguire & Perisic

Maybe something like

DDG
Young Smalling Maguire Sandro
Fellaini Matic
Willian Lingard Perisic
Lukaku​

Ive been critical of Ole as a tactician, but I’m so grateful that we have him over Jose for his transfer policy & man management alone.
Mourinho probably wanted to build his team identical to his Inter Milan's treble team which is probably his biggest achievement. Back four who can be relied week in week out consists two matured & leadership pair of centre back with 1 defensive & 1 attacking full back. Midfield of two pair of physical strong, work horse & intelligence midfielder with one extra midfield from wide to provide support. And three world class or top class or proven without being developed of attacking outlet with two goal scorer & 1 creative playmaker (big reasons why he didn't believe in Rashford & Martial and went in for Sanchez, Lukaku & Griezmann).

Unfortunately, there are lot of problems in United squad at that time, lack of quality, lack of leadership to win things & unsettle back four which unusual for Mourinho's team. Instead of going for proven attackers, Ole believe in developing Martial & Rashford and trying to fix the back four & the lack of leadership first. Follow in January he added quality in the team (Bruno). He knows what United needed and how our club works in tradition. The Mourinho way & his football style don't suit us, we are all really got this wrong for hiring him.

I dare to say that Mourinho is having better squad for his ideology when he started at Spurs now than when he started at United back then. Because he doesn't need to spend money on top class proven attackers since he already has Son & Kane. However, whether Spurs has the money to help him for other positions remain question mark.
 

nokillingmoths

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If, if, if and some more if. If only he wasn't an abominable, egomaniacal man-child.... things may have worked. Reason why we got 2nd spot is because league was over in January and we had nothing to play for other than FA Cup and the league duebto us being out of CL by the end of February with our disgraceful performance against Sevilla, a performance he defended and not only that but he went on to belittle the club after he was criticized for early exit. Chelsea and Spurs were shiit whilst Liverpool went all in CL, just trying to finish inside top4.
Sorry what was the point of this post.
 

Fracture90

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Sorry what was the point of this post.
To even assume that we'd be anywhere close to winning the league under Mourinho and his dinosaur football, constant bickering and falling out with players is a ludicrous and nothing short of being delusional imo.
 

nokillingmoths

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I suppose it comes down to what people view as failure and sucess. If you think Carling cup, Uefa cup and a 2nd place finish are all that matters then you’re going to see that as success even if they were short term things.

I view it as he set the club back 3 years of development and should really never have been hired and plastering over how poor he was and how poor the team was in those victories as a huge failure. The team never progressed and that to me is failure.
Aside from my original point being he wasn't a total failure.

He signed pogba, who a lot of people regard as one of our very best players. He fell out with him and wanted him gone but he still got him here. He played Rashford loads, in the position he now favours. He also made mctominay a first team player. He also wanted maguire, who is now club captain, but was refused. So I would say its unfair to suggest he didn't progress the team at all.

He did loads wrong and somehow people keep missing this bit, I am glad he's gone, just think people need to temper it a bit. I also think that last 6 months was unforgiveable to many, which I get. He spent all preseason being a bellend and carried it on until he was rightly sacked. I personally think we were the last really big job he'll ever get in football.

Edit: going to stop replying to people now as no one really seems interested in reading all of my posts. And I have found myself in the position of defending him, when I am glad he is gone. Enjoy your circle jerk all.
 

aditya826

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He bought 2 CB's for what was a high figure at that time, only to deem them not good enough.
Manchester United bought Jaap Stam in 98-99 season, the then costliest defender in Football and still bought Michael Silvestre in 99-00 season despite winning the Football Treble and Blanc the following season.

PSG signed Neymar and then after few days got Mbappe from League rivals, despite both being pre-dominantly Left Wing forwards.

Almost as if "We signed X for a lot of money, so we aren't going to give you Y. If you relentlessly ask for it we'll sack you." isn't a good way to run a football club as a football club.

Besides, Woodward spunked 80 mill on a fraud like Maguire 6 months after sacking the best manager in the world for his crime of seeking improvements. So all really points towards the board and not towards Mourinho.
 

roonster09

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Manchester United bought Jaap Stam in 98-99 season, the then costliest defender in Football and still bought Michael Silvestre in 99-00 season despite winning the Football Treble and Blanc the following season.

PSG signed Neymar and then after few days got Mbappe from League rivals, despite both being pre-dominantly Left Wing forwards.

Almost as if "We signed X for a lot of money, so we aren't going to give you Y. If you relentlessly ask for it we'll sack you." isn't a good way to run a football club as a football club.

Besides, Woodward spunked 80 mill on a fraud like Maguire 6 months after sacking the best manager in the world for his crime of seeking improvements. So all really points towards the board and not towards Mourinho.
:lol:

Not sure what's worse, calling Maguire as Fraud or Jose as the best manager in the world. Forget World, he wasn't even the best Portuguese manager in PL when he was sacked.

I don't understand where this "Jose wanted Maguire" is coming from, yes we were linked and we were linked with 100 CBs that season. Jose's mouthpiece Duncan Castles said Jose never wanted Maguire.
 

aditya826

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Yeah, because had we had a better defender, we might have beaten the mighty Derby county within 8 penalty kicks. Plus you can't have it both ways - when Utd wins - its thanks to Mou, when we lose, it's because Ed didn't let him spend another billion
Mourinho isn't to be blamed for Phil jones missing 9th Penalty because losing on Penalty Kicks after 8 shots isn't under his control. It's not FIFA where Mourinho has joysticks to remotely control how a player shoots. I'm baffled that this needs explaining. The point was clear if Mourinho was given better quality he'd have won most of the games and challenged for the title, just look at his CV!
 

Sky1981

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Yeah, because had we had a better defender, we might have beaten the mighty Derby county within 8 penalty kicks. Plus you can't have it both ways - when Utd wins - its thanks to Mou, when we lose, it's because Ed didn't let him spend another billion
Why not? If it's 2nd its because liverpool is spent, the league is over by feb, 20 pts behind city is nothing, uefa cup is not a cup
 

Fracture90

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Manchester United bought Jaap Stam in 98-99 season, the then costliest defender in Football and still bought Michael Silvestre in 99-00 season despite winning the Football Treble and Blanc the following season.

PSG signed Neymar and then after few days got Mbappe from League rivals, despite both being pre-dominantly Left Wing forwards.

Almost as if "We signed X for a lot of money, so we aren't going to give you Y. If you relentlessly ask for it we'll sack you." isn't a good way to run a football club as a football club.

Besides, Woodward spunked 80 mill on a fraud like Maguire 6 months after sacking the best manager in the world for his crime of seeking improvements. So all really points towards the board and not towards Mourinho.
You seem to be unable to get or you're purposely missing the point. He already made 2 CB signings, both of which he deemed nit good enough. You can't just go on keep buying CB's for high fee's hoping that you will eventually stumble upon a good one, that's not how things work.

Are you awake that you're arguing that the reason we lost against a championship side Derby on penalty shootout is because Mourinho wasn't granted another big money CB signing after failing to make those 2 he already bought work?
 

aditya826

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I don't understand where this "Jose wanted Maguire" is coming from, yes we were linked and we were linked with 100 CBs that season. Jose's mouthpiece Duncan Castles said Jose never wanted Maguire.
Never said "Jose wanted Maguire" did I? I was more pointing towards the inherent contradiction in the argument that Mourinho didn't deserve to get another CB because he had costly purchases for defenders few seasons ago with the fact that the board was ready to spunk 80 million on Maguire merely 6 months later pal. And it's not a surprise that the best manager in the game didn't want one of the worst & over-rated defender in the game.
 

anant

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Mourinho isn't to be blamed for Phil jones missing 9th Penalty because losing on Penalty Kicks after 8 shots isn't under his control. It's not FIFA where Mourinho has joysticks to remotely control how a player shoots. I'm baffled that this needs explaining. The point was clear if Mourinho was given better quality he'd have won most of the games and challenged for the title, just look at his CV!
So, your point was that we haven't lost a game where we were leadin - I just told you that that statement is factually incorrect.
Now coming to that Derby County loss- The point is that the game shouldn't be going to penalties, let alone 9th penalty. How are you not getting that. You shouldn't be blaming lack of funds for losing to Derby County of all teams
 

roonster09

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Never said "Jose wanted Maguire" did I? I was more pointing towards the inherent contradiction in the argument that Mourinho didn't deserve to get another CB because he had costly purchases for defenders few seasons ago with the fact that the board was ready to spunk 80 million on Maguire merely 6 months later pal. And it's not a surprise that the best manager in the game didn't want one of the worst & over-rated defender in the game.
:lol:
Best manager in the game.
 

JPRouve

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Manchester United bought Jaap Stam in 98-99 season, the then costliest defender in Football and still bought Michael Silvestre in 99-00 season despite winning the Football Treble and Blanc the following season.

PSG signed Neymar and then after few days got Mbappe from League rivals, despite both being pre-dominantly Left Wing forwards.

Almost as if "We signed X for a lot of money, so we aren't going to give you Y. If you relentlessly ask for it we'll sack you." isn't a good way to run a football club as a football club.

Besides, Woodward spunked 80 mill on a fraud like Maguire 6 months after sacking the best manager in the world for his crime of seeking improvements. So all really points towards the board and not towards Mourinho.
PSG aren't spending their own money while United generates its own spending power and unfortunately we don't have oil fields yet.
 

Fracture90

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Mourinho isn't to be blamed for Phil jones missing 9th Penalty because losing on Penalty Kicks after 8 shots isn't under his control. It's not FIFA where Mourinho has joysticks to remotely control how a player shoots. I'm baffled that this needs explaining. The point was clear if Mourinho was given better quality he'd have won most of the games and challenged for the title, just look at his CV!
Hey we can try to appoint Ancelotti, or even bring back Lippi, Sacchi and CapCapello from retirement... because you know, they've got that sweet, sweet CV!
 

AFC NimbleThumb

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The starting 11 in the OP sent a shiver down my spine; the man was throwing money around without an actual plan.

He tried to cause unrest with players he didn’t want & thankfully the club sides with the players on this one.

I’ve been critical of OgS but Jose really had to go.
 

Darshan Mody

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Mourinho is not a manager with philosophy you score 1 and my team will score 3. His team are always pragmatic and always disciplined but this also kills any good creative from the players. His team's also don't press in the final third of an opponent rather depend on defensive shape.

When Ole was first care taker manager the team were removed from shackles and that showed in the initial results. However the team lacked severely in the fitness side to run for so long in a match. He is used to buy the teams rather than improve current players in the squad, thus requiring blank cheque book.

He also would prefer to be the bad man in the team and also tend to throw away people on the bus for their mistakes. (Ndombele from Tottenham is a good current example)

All in all he was a good manager a decade earlier. Football has progressed and he has stuck to his philosophy hence in every 3 years Management feels that he is not upto the task (Clocks ticking on how long he is going to manage Tottenham)
 

No-Internet

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Don't forget Ed also refused to sign Jerome Boateng who Jose desperately wanted...

Soo glad Mourinho is gone we would have the oldest slowest team in the prem if he was still here and got his signings
 

anant

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Never said "Jose wanted Maguire" did I? I was more pointing towards the inherent contradiction in the argument that Mourinho didn't deserve to get another CB because he had costly purchases for defenders few seasons ago with the fact that the board was ready to spunk 80 million on Maguire merely 6 months later pal. And it's not a surprise that the best manager in the game didn't want one of the worst & over-rated defender in the game.
Ok let's assume for a moment that Mou is the best manager in the game (I doubt he's the best in North London right now, but let's leave that) and Maguire is the worst defender in the game.

Let's also assume we spunk 150m on Boateng, Willian, Perisic and SMS and sell Martial, Shaw and Pogba. Now what next? Look at that age profile of our side. Assume you have 150m to spend for the next 2 years as well. Who do you buy and how do you rebuild that side?

The issue with building it that way was that every player that he wanted was in his late 20s, early 30s. Add that to the fact that we already had/have a lot of players who are on the wrong side of 30/ lack quality. Had we given him what he wanted that summer, we would have been in really deep shit.
 
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:lol:

Not sure what's worse, calling Maguire as Fraud or Jose as the best manager in the world. Forget World, he wasn't even the best Portuguese manager in PL when he was sacked.

I don't understand where this "Jose wanted Maguire" is coming from, yes we were linked and we were linked with 100 CBs that season. Jose's mouthpiece Duncan Castles said Jose never wanted Maguire.
Jose confirmed on sky sports during his short lived spell as a pundit that he wanted Maguire at United.
 

Flexdegea

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Manchester United bought Jaap Stam in 98-99 season, the then costliest defender in Football and still bought Michael Silvestre in 99-00 season despite winning the Football Treble and Blanc the following season.

PSG signed Neymar and then after few days got Mbappe from League rivals, despite both being pre-dominantly Left Wing forwards.

Almost as if "We signed X for a lot of money, so we aren't going to give you Y. If you relentlessly ask for it we'll sack you." isn't a good way to run a football club as a football club.

Besides, Woodward spunked 80 mill on a fraud like Maguire 6 months after sacking the best manager in the world for his crime of seeking improvements. So all really points towards the board and not towards Mourinho.


Stockholm syndrome.



He already spend fortune on defenders, Maguire was a defender Jose wanted to buy, then he got sacked for being terrible at his job, but the board fault for buying a fraud like Maguire, who Mourinho wanted too. Cant be one or the other
 

EwanI Ted

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DDG
Young Smalling Maguire Sandro
Fellaini Matic
Willian Lingard Perisic
Lukaku​
That might well have been his team at the start of last season, but I really don't think it would have looked like that this season. Who he would have bought instead is hard to guess, but I think you can probably take Young, Smalling, Fellaini, and Lingard out of his team if we'd given him a blank chequebook.
 

MalcolmTucker

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Mourinho isn't to be blamed for Phil jones missing 9th Penalty because losing on Penalty Kicks after 8 shots isn't under his control. It's not FIFA where Mourinho has joysticks to remotely control how a player shoots. I'm baffled that this needs explaining. The point was clear if Mourinho was given better quality he'd have won most of the games and challenged for the title, just look at his CV!
He spent €400m on players on 2.5 years. Was allowed to break the world transfer record and broke the premier league wage record as well. So he had the most expensive player, the most expensive striker and the best paid player in the league while he was here and none of them played to the required standard under him. Don't talk about him not having enough quality, Jose was backed and did an ok to underwhelming job up until the Sevilla game. Anyone that calls themselves a United fan after that cowardly performance and subsequent press conference and still is a fan of Jose needs to have a word with themselves.
 

Adam-Utd

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Did he? IIRC he said he wanted CB, nothing on he wanted Maguire.
Yeah he practically moaned and said "funny how they decided to buy maguire a year later for more money when I wanted him they said he was too expensive"

By that stage Woodward didn't trust him clearly.
 

roonster09

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Yeah he practically moaned and said "funny how they decided to buy maguire a year later for more money when I wanted him they said he was too expensive"

By that stage Woodward didn't trust him clearly.
Yeah that's how I remember too. Duncan castles said Maguire was never wanted by Jose, he wanted Boateng and other experienced CBs.
 

Web of Bissaka

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So it gets me thinking, what was his plan for United had he completely got his way?

Fellaini & Lukaku would still be here. Don’t think he would have got rid of Smalling either. Lingard would probably still be starting. Shaw, Pogba & Martial would be gone. We know he wanted the likes of Sandro, Maguire & Perisic

Maybe something like

DDG
Young Smalling Maguire Sandro
Fellaini Matic
Willian Lingard Perisic
Lukaku​
That's going too far.

Despite the falling out with Pogba, he still play him to the latter, almost always when fit.

It's something like this, the subs are regulars, 2nd option and impact subs.
I think it'll be 433.

DDG
Young Lindelof Maguire Sandro
Herrera Matic Pogba
Willian Lukaku Perisic

Subs: Rashford, Lingard, Mata, Fellaini, McTominay, Dalot, Shaw, Smalling, Romero​

Plenty of the players there to be replaced with more experienced players, who knows who. And I'm sure he's planning to get another target man as a back-up to Lukaku. And bringing in more expensive midfielders because Fred and Pereira doesn't perform to his standard, and he always don't fancy Herrera until he had to play him because he bring so much to the table.
It's in the past, let's move on.
 
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Did he? IIRC he said he wanted CB, nothing on he wanted Maguire.
Yes. It was after a game when Maguire played well (could have been the opener against Chelsea) he said something to the effect of "that's why I wanted him" and made a quip about United paying more than Leicester wanted the summer before when he was manager and was told he was too expensive.
 

DarkLord

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I genuinely believe if it wasn't for Pep's City, he would have won us the league in his second season. Shame he couldn't build on that season.
 

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Funny he always managed to fall out with his best players. Ronaldo at Real, Pogba and Martial at United and now Ndombele. Is that an ego problem? But then he worked well with people like Ozil, Sneidjer and especially Zlatan