Would you agree that those players that Jose criticised like Mkhytaryan who only got his chance only 90min so far this season, player who just recovered from a horrific injuries last season Shaw and Smalling who is (may be) confirmed to get a broken toe and won't be able to play for a month are unjustified "call"? Because players like Schneiderlin and Memphis who got overpaid seems to managed to get away from Jose's criticised even though they fail to do their job. And player like Ibra who got paid 220k per week and brought in to our team so we can have a clinical no9 basically failed to scored 6 league games in a row isn't in Jose's "call" list. I think Jose judged the other players too early. He knows about Ibra personally because they have been working together before that's why he believes in him but he doesn't know much about Shaw and Smalling and he assumed that these players are bunch of softy because they refused to play due to injuries.
Mourinho's real task at Utd - An overpaid, over-hyped squad that needs fixing
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Would you agree that those players that Jose criticised like Mkhytaryan who only got his chance only 90min so far this season, player who just recovered from a horrific injuries last season Shaw and Smalling who is (may be) confirmed to get a broken toe and won't be able to play for a month are unjustified "call"? Because players like Schneiderlin and Memphis who got overpaid seems to managed to get away from Jose's criticised even though they fail to do their job. And player like Ibra who got paid 220k per week and brought in to our team so we can have a clinical no9 basically failed to scored 6 league games in a row isn't in Jose's "call" list. I think Jose judged the other players too early. He knows about Ibra personally because they have been working together before that's why he believes in him but he doesn't know much about Shaw and Smalling and he assumed that these players are bunch of softy because they refused to play due to injuries.
I think Luke Shaw can and will be a top class left back. He’s a young lad recovering from a bad injury in a mis-firing team. Aaron Ramsey has similar issues
But I actually agree with a lot of this and think most people will if you strip back the points. I don’t think social media helps nor press attention.
A lot of our current players like the idea of being a Man Utd player but don’t like the reality. Even after our recent issues we are still the big draw. We’ll always fill away grounds, and fans and players will raise their game against us. As many of these players can’t “run through a brick wall” every week we come unstuck. At our best we could handle a cup final every week, we just aren’t at those levels at the moment.
So having watched players like Keano and Rio who managed to attain those levels over long periods of time, fans support them when they want new big money contracts - despite the (at the time) astronomical amounts qouted. Out of the current mob, can any of them (de Gea aside) go and knock on Jose’s door and say “look boss I am pulling up tree’s here and x, y and z are on more money and so I want a new contract?” No! None of them will have the manager or board thinking “we best get him tied down long term” The opposite, I suspect if we could find a club to take over their contracts then a fair few would be shown the door.
Martial and Rashford – purely for potential and not current form are the only ones I would be happily to see the club commit too. Obviously Pogba and De Gea are tied down long term.
We need to be a bit realistic here. Yes we overpaid for Shaw. However at the time we were out of the European competition and had to compete for his signature with Chelsea ie who were in the CL. Under such circumstances it was only fair for us to overspend.
I am not too worried about Shaw TBH but more about putting players like Bastian, Young and Rooney on a ridiculously high salary/long term contracts when it was evident that they were a shadow of the players they once were.
I am not too worried about Shaw TBH but more about putting players like Bastian, Young and Rooney on a ridiculously high salary/long term contracts when it was evident that they were a shadow of the players they once were.
I'll just put it this way @JohnnyKills, I don't like the idea of being quote mind which means my post will be taken out of context, and I don't actually respond to questions if whatever I have been said has been taken out of context. However, I will answer it this way. He most certainly was a genius, even before he tookover at Manchester United, with his idea of mixing youth with experienced players (in all of Sir Alex Fergusons time, I cannot for the life of me think of any first XI at Manchester United that played as many matches as those at Aberdeen in the 1982/83 seasons. Their first XI average 56-60 matches in that season alone, but he counted on the youth and the ageing party of players to bond together as a solid unit and it happened. What he done with the class of 92, he had already done 10 years prior to that and it was not luck. He produced a small group of young winners, who wanted to win, who had the motivation to win.
You can have your players from Northern Europe, Southern Europe, South America, North America and even Asia if you want, however, what made the difference between Sir Alex and the other managers was the fact that he was a born winner, and he didn't like to lose. I don't think anyone could name one single player of note from Aberdeen who won the UEFA cup winners cup final against Real Madrid, yet Sir Alex did it. A quote from Alfredo Di Stefano said this post-match:
These are essentially the very foundations to which Sir Alex laid down when he came to Old Trafford. He wanted his teams to be winners, to have a fantastic team spirit and everyone who was associated with Old Trafford, from the gardeners, tea ladies, to the technicians of the stadium were one big happy family unit. As for the "competing on a more global scale", how do you propose we do this? Again, with a reference to José Mourinho, all his signings in his first couple of seasons came from Northern European and European clubs. So, I can only guess as to what you mean by "global." Are you actually implying that we should perhaps expand our scouting network i.e. trying to get the best overseas players from South America or those who are already in La Liga? If that is the case, we can forget about signing the top South American players because to get them here, for the quality they would bring, you are talking double what Wayne Rooney is earning now.
It is a romantic / idealistic approach but I would love us to pay market rates and no more. We might get lesser players but ones that want to be here for the right reasons.
Back onto Shaw and his “attitude”. I remember the Mourinho quote about the salary but don’t take too much into that. At the time Jose was at Chelsea and he was doing his thing using the media to de-stabilise opposition. Accusing us of over paying, accusing Shaw of taking the easy option etc etc.
Anything Jose says positive or negative in the media can be taken with a pinch of salt. It is always used as away of getting a message across or to effect the opposition negatively. Especially the Friday afternoon pressers where he has time to prepare what he wants to say. He attends them with an agenda and will often go on a bit of a rant answering a generic question with whatever it is he wants to get out
Back onto Shaw and his “attitude”. I remember the Mourinho quote about the salary but don’t take too much into that. At the time Jose was at Chelsea and he was doing his thing using the media to de-stabilise opposition. Accusing us of over paying, accusing Shaw of taking the easy option etc etc.
Anything Jose says positive or negative in the media can be taken with a pinch of salt. It is always used as away of getting a message across or to effect the opposition negatively. Especially the Friday afternoon pressers where he has time to prepare what he wants to say. He attends them with an agenda and will often go on a bit of a rant answering a generic question with whatever it is he wants to get out
China was of course taking it to the extreme. However, who knows what might happen in the future? I think it's mad that they play regular season NFL games in London. I am sure the 39th game abroad debate will rear it's head again at some point.
We've got our official noodle and tractor partners to keep happy...
Biggest task at his hands is about managing his own temper, so he could stop throwing the wrong players under the buses. We're few months into his reigns and Mourinho has already built some negative rapport with players like Shaw, Smalling, Mkhitaryan and Schweini. All of these fellas are, or could be, more than useful to our team. It'd be best for everyone involved that the team starts performing from now on or else this problem might potentially snowball beyond repair.
For a start Jose could do with signing up for yoga classes.
For a start Jose could do with signing up for yoga classes.
That's what brought us in this sad situation in the first place (ie by replacing the likes of Scholes, Giggs, Rio and Ronaldo with the likes of Cleverley, Young, Smalling and Valencia).
The value strategy failed as much as the ££££ strategy. We need to start buying smart ie by buying top quality players because we need them
I think we bought smart this summer. Pogba is of course expensive at the moment but will prove to be a bargain, of that I am certain. Zlatan will get 20 goals and is just what we need. Bailly will be a bargain. Obviously jury out on Mhiki, but age, experience, stats wise, looked a good signing.
I agree though, It’s the squad player signings which has weakened us. Schniderlin, Fellani (I know he gives us an option), Darmian, Rojo all just are not upto it. For me you improve your squad by improving your starting 11. We should only sign a player who will go into the first team and be an improvement on the guy he replaced. The team gets stronger and the bloke who is replaced strengthens the squad and the dross is shown the door. We did that this summer and Bailly, Pogba and Zlatan re-invented and dramatically improved our spine.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/football...s-bastian-schweinsteiger-sets-sights-on-move/
If true, probably good news. Big earner not doing anything, better off the wage bill if Mourinho has no intention of playing him.
If true, probably good news. Big earner not doing anything, better off the wage bill if Mourinho has no intention of playing him.
Woodhouseparkred, I've answered all your points individually below.
Agree completely. Sadly Fergie is gone now and we don't have a manager who can turn moderate players like Fletcher and Park into world-beaters.
Agree completely, but again, Ferguson isn't here anymore. We need to move on and if we don't compete with City, PSG, Real etc for the world's best players, we'll struggle.
Agree completely, but why are we still talking about Ferguson? He's been three years retired and we need to adjust.
By moving the training base of the club to the more glamorous south of the country, as I said in my initial post.
sorry mate don't get this.
We've already got scouts there and we've just signed Atletico's chief scout, so it seems this is a priority for the club already.
This is exactly what I'm talking about. By moving the base of the club and offering a more appealing lifestyle package to the modern player, we'll be able to get Latin players for less money and with more desire to play for the club. Hopefully we'll have less Di Maria-type situations![/user]
At first this sounds utterly ridiculous. But fair play for thinking outside the box. It would well and truly cause a disconnect between fans and players. But logistically, as they stay in the Lowry before home games anyway, it wouldn't make any difference.
It is far too early to say.
a- Bailly’s seems to be a great signing. He’s the typical Vidic/Stam/Bruce/Terry EPL type of CB not the usual ball playing wuss who has no idea what defending is.
b- I am a big fan of Pogba and I acknowledge the need to buy him now considering that Real were breathing at his neck. However I concede that he does struggle without a DM and a playmaker at his back. We might have the latter in Carrick, Blind and Herrera but we certainly lack the former (+ we need to change the system to 4-3-3 to get the best out of him).
c- Ibra is a great striker but he’s 35. Its time for Mou to acknowledge that and to start giving him some rest. Rashford and Martial can do a great job there
d- Mkhitaryan deal is strange. How can anyone score so many goals in the German league when he’s supposed to be so emotionally fragile? Also while we do acknowledge that players need time to settle down its also true, that its not that hard to put the likes of Lingard and Mata (as a winger) on the bench
I believe we’ve got 3 main issues
a) We’ve got too many players who are either not good enough (Jones, Rojo, Depay, Fellaini, Lingard, Young etc)
b) We’ve got too many square pegs in round holes (wingers as full backs, left backs and CMs as CBs, strikers on the flanks etc)
c) We lack leadership
Indeed, I can see it has worked wonders on the likes of Reading, Southampton, Portsmouth and Bournemouth, or even Brighton for that matter; if we indeed are talking about the South.
C is the main one, the crucial one and the most obvious one. Its my belief that real leadership in the Premier League comes from a nucleus of british players. Which we lack.
Out of interest, and purley hypothetically, what impact would a 27 year old Roy Keane have on the current squad? He immediately makes problem B and C disappear and arguably makes a, if not go away, become less of an issue.
Personally speaking, add Keane into our current strongest team and we’d be points clear in the league.
On one hand, we aren't that far away. On the other, not many Keano's about
Oh knock it off. Schmeichel was a great leader, same as Stam, Vidic, Keane, Evra and Cantona. Having a nucleus of British players is good in terms of having a settled side who knows the EPL inside out and who are more likely to resist Real once they come knocking at their door. There again Beckham/Mcmanaman/Owen story shows that its not always the case
Roy Keane would be a great asset to the side especially in helping Pogba and co to become the players they are now. We always had a hardman who was able to keep the kids in line (Robson for Ince, Ince for Keane, Keane for Scholes and Becks), that something we lack. Sure Carrick and Scholes were great players but they lacked that fear factor in the team.
Id say our next top priority should be a CB (or two), a winger (or two) and a DM.
I am not knocking Vida, Evra, Stam etc as leaders. No question they were leaders and men. I am just used to us being more british and therefore associate that with abit more character and a bit more heart. I am not generalising and saying all British players are leaders and all foreigner’s soft tarts. Ironically it’s our British contingent that Jose and fans alike question in terms of desire. Like you say, for 30 years we have had a Robbo, Incey, Keano or Scholesy who would smash somebody when it was needed. I said in another thread, Nicky Butt would be the first name on the team sheet if he was available in this current squad!
Agree, it does sound ridiculous at first but as a fan, does it really matter where the players live and train? Maybe some people care but I personally don't. The club is already a global institution, managed by a Portuguese, owned by Americans, listed on the NY stock exchange and registered in the Cayman Islands. Most of our fans come from far away from Manchester.
I've no issue with moving the training base 100 miles south if it means we're more alluring to foreign players and avoid the sort of problems we saw with Di Maria.
We signed Pogba and Zlatan this summer. We are not struggling to lure players.
Its certainly a debate and like I say, its an idea outside of the box. Personally speaking though, Id rather have a Marcus Rashford than an Angel Di Maria....anyday
I don't think that nationality has to do with it tbh. The Northern Europeans tend to be taller and therefore more physical to Southern Americans/Southern Europeans. There again the likes of Simeone or Gattuso could go toe to toe against anybody.
As highlighted befoe there's plenty of benefits of having a British core. Unfortunately competition for them is usually fierce and once they sign with a top club their price becomes ridiculously high. I still think we should have done more effort to sign Alli, Bale and Ramsey though.
On second thoughts. No it is ridiculous. Pathetic anyway. Like I said in a previous post I want to sign players that want to play for Manchester United. Im not having them wanting to play for us but live in London. It’s the opposite of what we should be about. Manchester was / is good enough for Best Law and Charlton, it was good enough for Cantona, Keane, Rio and RVN. feck Di Maria and all the other mincey faggots like him. I don’t want them in the club and its those exact players that we should object to, not move our whole base to pander to.
Moving the core of the club to London?
What a rediculous idea. I'm sorry but it's one of the most stupid ideas I've ever heard.
If they did that I would seriously consider my alegence to Manchester United.
We should be signing players who want to play for united, not who want to live in London.
Any romance left in the game and in this club will be gone the moment this 'idea' happens.
Not an attack on the poster who suggested it by the way, I just think it's a silly idea.
What a rediculous idea. I'm sorry but it's one of the most stupid ideas I've ever heard.
If they did that I would seriously consider my alegence to Manchester United.
We should be signing players who want to play for united, not who want to live in London.
Any romance left in the game and in this club will be gone the moment this 'idea' happens.
Not an attack on the poster who suggested it by the way, I just think it's a silly idea.
If ever that happens, then we will lose whatever identity we have left with Northern people. I mean, it is ridiculous. It would be like those who prefer the sunnier climes of LA rather than New York. Hey, let us just move the NY Knicks to a new base in LA, that way they can get a sun tan. As far as I'm concerned, Manchester United will always stake in Manchester, no matter who takes over. As for the players, they are paid enough to hire a helicopter to have a day trip to London if they so wish if that is what they are missing.
It was good enough for the likes of Nani, Evra, Stam, Barthez and others alike too. It is about time some realise that, when they come to Manchester, they should know what to expect. I mean, I don't really see Aguero or Silva complaining or even Navas, and how far is their stadium away from ours 6-7 miles? The players have to also realise that the club will always be bigger than them and not the other way around. Many thought they were bigger and better and found out the hard way.
Sure many people agree with you but the club has already moved its administrative HQ to London, its registration office to the Cayman Islands, contracted out its playing and managerial needs to overseas specialists and signed a litany of contracts with cringeworthy companies from around the world. I don't see how this would rob the club of any more identity than has been robbed already.
All of the points you mentioned are administrative or operations based. Completely separate to actually playing football.
There's probably hundreds of kids who go to try and see the players train everyday who live in and around Manchester. It's part of the romance of the football club. Kids from Manchester supporting there team hoping one day they're idols will sign their shirt, posters etc.
We are a club from Manchester. We play and train in Manchester. I don't care where our business is registered too as long as we play our football in Manchester. The UK is not solely about London either. Manchester is a great city, if you don't want to live here and play for this football team, don't sign for us.
I would have to agree with @Jake here. It is all about grassroots football. If that was to happen to all the major clubs in the North i.e. Manchester United, Manchester City, Liverpool, Everton and Leeds United, where would the youngsters get their chance to follow their idols? If footballers want to play in the Cayman Islands, then let them do so with another club. If they don't like the weather, then they should have known beforehand. Taking the last bit of identity that it has left (being the most successful club in Manchester) then the dream of seeing their idols train, having photos taken with them every single training day will be gone. No amount of money is going to take away Old Trafford from its very roots.
so you're suggesting that Woodie might be tempted to build a training ground around London? all the player can live in the glamorous city and just pop in to OT every two weeks for a game?
feck me that's sick....and yet I wouldn't rule this out .
Fair point mate (and Jake), I just think it's out of step with the modern world.
Unless we get another crop of kids like Beckham, Scholes, Neville again, we're going to have to hold our nose and compete with RM, Barca etc for foreign superstars, and they're going to want the full package - money, location, trophies. If any one of those is missing then they've got plenty of other options.
At the moment we've got the most expensive playing squad in the world yet we're well off the pace in our domestic league and aren't even in the CL. That tells me that either the best players, the true elite, don't want to come to us, or/and we're being forced to overpay for average players to convince them to come here.
Indeed, what would be classed as a "Local Derby", against our rivals like City would simply be called a Derby and have less clout.
When we won the leagues and champions leagues, we didn't really have the best players either or the truly elite, just a collection of players who functioned as a "team." This is something that Sir Alex wanted as soon as he set foot in the place. I don't have to remind you that Sir Alex won a large number of trophies thanks to players who were dedicated to the team. In fact, nearly every season, his players, whether 16 years old or 30 years old, played 55-60 games simply because he didn't have a large pool of players compared to what we have or take for granted nowadays, however, he made his players believe they are winners and to have a winners mentality. The weather or location do not enter this equation at all. They played for a manager who was a tyrant one day, and someone sympathetic to a players cause the next. Herein lies the difference.
Yeah but Fergie's retired now mate.
International week.
He has been for quite some time too. However, it still doesn't solve the problem we have and to be honest, we have spent too much time derailing the thread when we should be discussing the problem in hand; both the manager and the overplayed players who ARE here and do LIVE in Manchester. Those who do not try hard enough and yet happy to touch their wages should be shipped out. As for the manager, I am reserving judgement, but it is not looking good.
People actually wanting to move the club down south? Manchester isn't bad enough to make that happen.
It is like this. When I watched "Wish you were here", with Judith Chalmers, she always presented capital cities from a nice point of view with regards to tourism, and not once did she explore the negative aspects of the city. I know this is standard practice, but at the end of the day, London is ok for tourism upto a certain area, after that, then it is high risk, just like Manchester, Birmingham, Paris or Rome. If I was a footballer coming from sunnier climes and had my choice, I'd prefer to go to any English club rather than a Spanish club (especially those who play for Real Madrid or Barcelona) simply because the demands from the supporters are incredible and it seems that no matter what you do, you will always be under the spotlight i.e. Ronaldo has been booed quite often at the Bernebeu for his lack of motivation in matches.
How has this lame attempt at trolling spiralled into an actual serious discussion about moving the club?
As a side note, people talk about Manchester like it's some village in the middle of Siberia. It's arguably economically and culturally the second most important city in England and part of a huge conurbation which has more than enough to keep most people occupied.
Also, alot of people fecking hate London. I wouldn't be surprised if this included some footballers.
International week.
Ok apologies for derailing the thread.
Back to the OP - it's difficult because most of the worst offenders are on the biggest contract and if they're happy to sit back and pick up big wages at United, they're probably not going to be inclined to move elsewhere.
As someone said earlier, Januzaj is on £60k a week and Young is on £110k - that sums up the mindless wastage.
It's taken four or five transfer windows to accumulate all this rubbish and sadly it'll take another four or five windows to ship it all out.
On a more positive note, the recruitment of a new set of scouts is presumably an attempt to end this mindless transfer policy. The guy from Atletico should be a particularly good signing if he can replicate what he's done with them at United.
Back to the OP - it's difficult because most of the worst offenders are on the biggest contract and if they're happy to sit back and pick up big wages at United, they're probably not going to be inclined to move elsewhere.
As someone said earlier, Januzaj is on £60k a week and Young is on £110k - that sums up the mindless wastage.
It's taken four or five transfer windows to accumulate all this rubbish and sadly it'll take another four or five windows to ship it all out.
On a more positive note, the recruitment of a new set of scouts is presumably an attempt to end this mindless transfer policy. The guy from Atletico should be a particularly good signing if he can replicate what he's done with them at United.
Probably because he is situated in or around the Reading area, it simply means he has to get up out of bed and move and make plans to get up North. He should give a thought to those travelling from all over Europe to get to Old Trafford.