We can all say this that and the other after the event we saw what VG signed. Why did he go down that road if he wanted different players. Top and bottom of it we signed 2 managers who were completely the wrong choice and another who was past his best. Mourinho is the only one who surprised me as I expected a league title and who couldn't deliver. The other 2 were as expected.
Moyes vs van Gaal vs Mourinho - A Retrospective Review
- Thread starter hmchan
- Start date
He could have named a load of other names too. What does it tell you? Nothing.
He probably did want most of them. You can still think he was terrible and not call him a liar at the same time. He has a hell of an ego but I never took him as dishonest.
Woodward and the board have their own jobs to do and so I would not say it is a criticism of them if they didn’t get LVG’s targets. But, at the same time, LVG may have found it difficult working with them.
Ole probably has the same strife right now but, perhaps, has a better disposition for dealing with it.
Didn’t Mourino say something similar about transfers, he could be covering for himself as well but he said something along the lines of Utd not trying hard enough to bring in the players he really wanted and instead just presenting players to him that the club wanted to sign.
So all managers complain that they didn't really get the players they wanted and fans are still surprised?
I wonder when the blind love for United will stop and people would realize that we're a very badly ran club.
I wonder when the blind love for United will stop and people would realize that we're a very badly ran club.
I think we all know we are a bad run club, but cannot do anything about it.
The Moyes was absolute worst not just because results were abysmal under him, it is that his thinking was small. Everything from press conference to match build-up to his targets such as Fellaini and Leighton Baines felt underwhelming. In one season, he brought the standards of the club down. He himself never appeared like he deserved such a prized gig in world football. Sorry in a suit, as Hugh Laurie said famously about him.
| Tactic | Result | Transfer | Youth | Man Management | Heritage | Rank | |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
Moyes | C | C- | D- | B- | C- | C | 3 |
van Gaal | A- | C+ | B- | A- | D | A | 1 |
Mourinho | B+ | B- | B- | F | C+ | A | 2 |
Tactics - you could see what Louis was doing - personnel let him down (Rooney). But even today seasoned pros like Rooney and Carrick speak very highly of Louis' tactical setup, something the average caftard hasn't quite caught on yet.
Results - Think both LVG and Mourinho did better than Moyes, but all fell short of expectations.
Transfers - Think Mourinho had a decent first window and then it went all down
Youth - has to be Louis for the sheer amount of trust he put on young players - Rashford, Blackett, CBJ, McNair, Varella, Lingard, Pereira, Fosu-Mensah at the top of my head. Some of them even looked decent
Man Management - Shit show all around
Heritage - what does this mean? Clearly LVG and Mourinho were hugely respected in the game and were European Cup winners. Moyes hadn't won a thing in his life.
Overall - think Louis was the best one for what he was trying to build, although never had the personnel to do so. He was also the most likable out of that trio. Mourinho was a bullshit artist, and Moyes way over his head.
By far the most damning thing an ex manager has did about those running the club was what Van Gaal said about his interview process when said that of all clubs and international management jobs he took the only time he was not asked about his football philosophy or style of play he intended to bring etc by those
hiring him was When he took the Utd job.
And of course klopp was not impressed either when the Utd reps did not try to sell him on a football club with a big history etc but instead tried to sell him an some ridiculous adult Disney land vision.
The one thing I'll give LVG is that he had a plan. He knew what he wanted to do and tried to implement a specific style of play. Of course he had three big problems with that.
1) He was completely unable to get the players we already at the club playing properly in that system.
2) He was completely unable to sign suitable players that could fit into what he wanted to do.
3) Once the first two aspects failed, he proved completely unable to change things up and have a successful Plan B to get the most out of the players we had.
Mourinho's first 18 months were decent, by far the best out of the three. Winning the cups in the first season and then setting us up for our best PL finish in the second season. Big question marks started coming up in the second half of the second season though, and then his third season was by far the worst out of all of them and there were times it felt he was deliberately sabotaging us to make a point.
As for Moyes, he was just a fool. If he was just incompetent it would have been bad enough but understandable and I'd almost feel sorry for him, but the fact he came in and just got rid of the support structure that Fergie had left him (despite Fergie specifically recommending him to keep the rest of the management team) made him an utter fool.
1) He was completely unable to get the players we already at the club playing properly in that system.
2) He was completely unable to sign suitable players that could fit into what he wanted to do.
3) Once the first two aspects failed, he proved completely unable to change things up and have a successful Plan B to get the most out of the players we had.
Mourinho's first 18 months were decent, by far the best out of the three. Winning the cups in the first season and then setting us up for our best PL finish in the second season. Big question marks started coming up in the second half of the second season though, and then his third season was by far the worst out of all of them and there were times it felt he was deliberately sabotaging us to make a point.
As for Moyes, he was just a fool. If he was just incompetent it would have been bad enough but understandable and I'd almost feel sorry for him, but the fact he came in and just got rid of the support structure that Fergie had left him (despite Fergie specifically recommending him to keep the rest of the management team) made him an utter fool.
Think Moyes' career after United shows he was never right fit for a big club. Able to save teams from relegation like he did with West Ham and overall ok manager but nothing more than that. Otherwise he'd prove us all wrong in these 6 years.
LvG had much success in the past, it was exciting watching his Netherlands team in 2014 World cup (especially against Spain) but it showed he was wrong choice for us. We had solid first season under him, got top 4 (didn't play in Europe so had less games to play) and there was that amazing run in March and April when we Tottenham, Liverpool and City. That performance at Anfield remains our best game there in a long time. Had high hopes coming into second season and we were competing in PL until December but our season was killed after that. I give him credit for signing Martial, his amazing record in big games but other than that it was just not good enough and boring as hell. Thanks for the Fa Cup too.
Finally, Mourinho was best manager we've had since Fergie and if it wasn't for Pep coming at the same time I'm confident we'd won the league in 2017/18. Typical Mourinho second season but Pep's City were unplayable. Exit to Sevilla was just embarassing, he showed again he's finished in Champions league, too pragmatic as he was with Chelsea in 2014 and 2015. Shame for FA cup final though. Third season was again him imploding as he did at Real and Chelsea. From preseason it was obvious what was to happen with him going into war against Woodward and the board.
So all three proved to be wrong choices. Moyes never good enough, Van Gaal past it and Mourinho would have been better choice in 2013 than in 2016.
We'll see what happens with Ole but I'm more relaxed and more positive. Style of play is better than with any of former three, there's no negativity around the club like with Jose and in terms of transfers I'd say he's been more successful.
LvG had much success in the past, it was exciting watching his Netherlands team in 2014 World cup (especially against Spain) but it showed he was wrong choice for us. We had solid first season under him, got top 4 (didn't play in Europe so had less games to play) and there was that amazing run in March and April when we Tottenham, Liverpool and City. That performance at Anfield remains our best game there in a long time. Had high hopes coming into second season and we were competing in PL until December but our season was killed after that. I give him credit for signing Martial, his amazing record in big games but other than that it was just not good enough and boring as hell. Thanks for the Fa Cup too.
Finally, Mourinho was best manager we've had since Fergie and if it wasn't for Pep coming at the same time I'm confident we'd won the league in 2017/18. Typical Mourinho second season but Pep's City were unplayable. Exit to Sevilla was just embarassing, he showed again he's finished in Champions league, too pragmatic as he was with Chelsea in 2014 and 2015. Shame for FA cup final though. Third season was again him imploding as he did at Real and Chelsea. From preseason it was obvious what was to happen with him going into war against Woodward and the board.
So all three proved to be wrong choices. Moyes never good enough, Van Gaal past it and Mourinho would have been better choice in 2013 than in 2016.
We'll see what happens with Ole but I'm more relaxed and more positive. Style of play is better than with any of former three, there's no negativity around the club like with Jose and in terms of transfers I'd say he's been more successful.
LVG talked a lot about plans and philosophies, but it sure didn’t seem like there was one on the pitch. He didn’t seem to have any plan whatsoever with transfers either, it was the very definition of a scattergun approach.
I didn’t like Mourinho and I don’t care for his management style, but I at least got what he was doing. LVG on the other hand...no idea.
Basically, Fergie left us with a legacy of success and trophies, Moyes decided to burn it all down, then LVG came and shat on the ashes. We then appointed Mourinho of all people to come and sort it out.
I didn’t like Mourinho and I don’t care for his management style, but I at least got what he was doing. LVG on the other hand...no idea.
Basically, Fergie left us with a legacy of success and trophies, Moyes decided to burn it all down, then LVG came and shat on the ashes. We then appointed Mourinho of all people to come and sort it out.
Funny how you never hear Klopp complain that he didn't win the CL this year because he never landed Messi, Lewandowski, Cristiano and De Bruyne.
Pochettino didn't spend for years and never complained.
A bad workman blames his tools, and Van Gaal is as big a cowboy you will find out there. Promising miracles and delivering a shit show. With Moyes it was different as he was like a cement mixer who was brought in to do carpentry despite no skills in carpentry, and when it went tits up, everyone was at least able to say 'Well he only ever was a cement mixer so it was a big ask'. But Van Gaal is one of those cowboys that does shoddy work, charges a premium, then tries to convince you in the end that the job done was top notch and that you were lucky to employ him in the first place.
Pochettino didn't spend for years and never complained.
A bad workman blames his tools, and Van Gaal is as big a cowboy you will find out there. Promising miracles and delivering a shit show. With Moyes it was different as he was like a cement mixer who was brought in to do carpentry despite no skills in carpentry, and when it went tits up, everyone was at least able to say 'Well he only ever was a cement mixer so it was a big ask'. But Van Gaal is one of those cowboys that does shoddy work, charges a premium, then tries to convince you in the end that the job done was top notch and that you were lucky to employ him in the first place.
LVG was the biggest disappointment only because he had a philosophy and his teams in the past played good football and won trophies.
I was surprised even then when he didn't bring his own assistant.
I also knew he didn't have the players to play to his style. What disappointed me most is why did he play such a boring game?
I was surprised even then when he didn't bring his own assistant.
I also knew he didn't have the players to play to his style. What disappointed me most is why did he play such a boring game?
True. I couldn't understand why people care about what managers claimed more than what they actually did. van Gaal's so-called philosophy brought us multiple games with no shot on target against smaller sides and we were hopeless in attack. It's not only boring but also ineffective, I'd pick Moyes' crossing or Mourinho's counterattacking philosophy all day long. Meanwhile, his scattergun approach did not only apply to transfers, but also our youth players.
Agreed. I remember plenty of games where the players would just pass it back and forth, and around the back line aimlessly. They genuinely looked like they didn’t have a clue what they were supposed to do.
Moyes was well shit and should not have been given this job. Poor choice made by the club. Anyone defending that clown should be asked to witness his sunderland season.
Lvg was never the same after the Leicester loss. He should have stuck to his plan but that loss made him defensive. We had good moments under him but we had more shit moments. Those 0-0s were just hard to take.
Jose was the biggest disappointment for me. He could have been a legend had he just changed his ways instead of moaning amd crying all the time. He was our most successful manager of the three but the end was sour and he undid all of his good work.
Lvg was never the same after the Leicester loss. He should have stuck to his plan but that loss made him defensive. We had good moments under him but we had more shit moments. Those 0-0s were just hard to take.
Jose was the biggest disappointment for me. He could have been a legend had he just changed his ways instead of moaning amd crying all the time. He was our most successful manager of the three but the end was sour and he undid all of his good work.
This doesn’t sound right to me.
Klopp mainly got who he wanted, Mane, Salah, VVD. Utd would be a different prospect if we had those three.
Poch never stopped whining about investment in the team.
In fairness there's a huge difference between buying players with big potential and turning them into superstars like Klopp has done, than whining that you couldn't win because you never got Messi and Neymar. When Liverpool bought Mane, Salah and VVD, they were still mostly off the radar for most big clubs due to never proving they can do it at the highest level. Van Gaal was perhaps a decent club manager 20 years ago, but in today's world he's honestly no higher than Dundee Utd or IFK Gothenburg as his managerial level.
Pochettino was never whining about underachieving at Spurs like Van Gaal was at Utd because Pochettino vastly overachieved there...without spending any money too I might add
Stopped reading here.
The key thing you are not mentioning is scrutiny at a United job is much more than what Klopp faced at Liverpool in his early days or Poch ever faced. Klopp basically got a free pass for his first 2 seasons where as Ole is already taunted for losing semi finals even though he has helped us finished 3rd. Poch came 3rd in a 2 horse race and yet was never questioned as he was managing the underdog spurs. SO when media questions you less manager will not react. Klopp himself is a sore loser and from time to time has moaned and whined when put in pressure. I still remember how van gaal was mocked for losing 5-3 to leicester even though he was just 5 games old as a united manager. Jose was criticized for 0-0 at anfield when in fact Klopp made some defensive subs himself and no questions were asked to him. Point is these small things matter, which is why I am so far very happy how Ole has handled his critics which the previous managers failed to do.
Does anyone remember celebrity death match on MTV? This would have been a box office event
I agree LVG was and is past it. He was about to retire when he came here and said he only wanted to do two years.
But those three players Klopp bought were not unknowns at all, especially VVD. But the point is Klopp got who he asked for. And I’m sure LVG did not expect to get all ten names and for sure some were practically unattainable but I do think he had a right to be disappointed with recruitment because it was pretty shite.
And I’m sorry but you can’t say Poch didn’t whine. It’s not unreasonable to say he got Tottenham punching above their weight as a club, fine. But he was always saying the board did not share his ambition and that’s just a euphemism for wanting more money for players.
They were all awful and a terrible fit for the club but hey that's what you get from a clueless idiot like woodward doing the hiring.
I think all of them had spells and moments doing well. Overall though they all failed in different way. Moyes was just way out of his depth both emotionally and tactically for a big club. Van Gaal was too stubborn in his way and had a terrible eye for transfers suited for his own style. Mourinho started well with good short term ideas only to implode and turn toxic when things didn't go his way .
Fair enough, but you can be certain that there are some players Klopp wasn't able to get such as Timo Werner etc but couldn't because of the Liverpool's transfer structure. But an elite manager will always find another solution.Van Gaal was given a fortune and nearly every player he signed was a massive flop - Schweinsteiger, Schneiderlin, Darmian, Rojo, Blind, Depay etc. On top of that he chose Blind over Virgil Van Dijk when Van Dijk was available for peanuts from Celtic. Dele Alli was available for peanuts too but Van Gaal chose to ignore signing him. He got rid of Zaha and Johnny Evans and replaced them with kids who were not good enough such as Lingard, McNair, Tyler Blackett. Then Di Maria became the 6th most expensive signing in history at the time for £ 60 million, and he was a disaster due to Va Gaal and no other reason, so for Van Gaal to say he wasn't backed in the transfer market is ludicrous and completely delusional.
Moyes - did such a bad job that many United fans still genuinely believe that a team that cruised a title, suddenly had all fallen off a cliff at the same time and no-one could have got them higher than 7th.
Even Moyes himself declared the team a "squad of champions" until it started going wrong, then it was initially that he'd need 4-5 world class players to win in Europe, and then it was comments about how the squad was crap anyway
Spent years moaning about a lack of time, seemingly totally in shock that taking champions to 7th, below even his own mediocre old boys 20 miles up the road was seen as so bad, that critical action was the only route forward.
Van Gaal - laid out a very specific style of play. No risks, no fun, and totally hamstrung himself by insisting a near to the end Rooney had to play.
Cleared out loads of useful squaddies for buttons, then complained we had no wingers or attacking options.
Arguably the peak of our mad not thought out signings period - Di Maria, Falcao, the Sch-brothers, Darmian.
Like Moyes, then spent years moaning about how he was surprised we couldn't bring in basically the World 11
Mourinho - got him too late.
Impressive sounding first summer set of signings - and quite unlucky that our finishing ability turned to absolute sh!te, meaning we drew so many games
Early moderate success proved to be a massive false dawn.
Quickly followed his usual route of implosion - and had to physically be prevented from saddling us with a string of high priced 29/30 year olds in favour of our crown jewels youngsters.
Managed to fool a lot of fans (probably a lot who genuinely believe Fergie left a crock of sh!Te) that Pogba was the reason for all our problems.
Great times.
Even Moyes himself declared the team a "squad of champions" until it started going wrong, then it was initially that he'd need 4-5 world class players to win in Europe, and then it was comments about how the squad was crap anyway
Spent years moaning about a lack of time, seemingly totally in shock that taking champions to 7th, below even his own mediocre old boys 20 miles up the road was seen as so bad, that critical action was the only route forward.
Van Gaal - laid out a very specific style of play. No risks, no fun, and totally hamstrung himself by insisting a near to the end Rooney had to play.
Cleared out loads of useful squaddies for buttons, then complained we had no wingers or attacking options.
Arguably the peak of our mad not thought out signings period - Di Maria, Falcao, the Sch-brothers, Darmian.
Like Moyes, then spent years moaning about how he was surprised we couldn't bring in basically the World 11
Mourinho - got him too late.
Impressive sounding first summer set of signings - and quite unlucky that our finishing ability turned to absolute sh!te, meaning we drew so many games
Early moderate success proved to be a massive false dawn.
Quickly followed his usual route of implosion - and had to physically be prevented from saddling us with a string of high priced 29/30 year olds in favour of our crown jewels youngsters.
Managed to fool a lot of fans (probably a lot who genuinely believe Fergie left a crock of sh!Te) that Pogba was the reason for all our problems.
Great times.
Moyes just didn’t have the balls for the job. That team needed breaking up a little and he just thought given it had won the championship so easily the year before he would be fine getting too 4, but many players were near the end. He was also appalling tactically. Just not up to the job.
Van Gaal was the worst though. If it wasn’t apparent after Fergie left that the team needed breaking up it certainly was after Moyes. He proceeded to do that but signed absolute shite, and played absolutely dire football all with an abhorrent arrogant and delusional aura.
Mou was the best of the three but was just a slightly better version of LVG. Made some awful signings but some decent ones, achieved something if not loads and the football he played wasn’t justified given how much better City were playing and how many more points they were getting. He was also arrogant and delusional.
Van Gaal was the worst though. If it wasn’t apparent after Fergie left that the team needed breaking up it certainly was after Moyes. He proceeded to do that but signed absolute shite, and played absolutely dire football all with an abhorrent arrogant and delusional aura.
Mou was the best of the three but was just a slightly better version of LVG. Made some awful signings but some decent ones, achieved something if not loads and the football he played wasn’t justified given how much better City were playing and how many more points they were getting. He was also arrogant and delusional.