Much potential, but a lot of problems in the balance of the squad

[Larseno]

Like the title says we have a lot of potential in this squad but I still think we have big problems when it comes to how to use this squad efficient.

If we take the last game for ex. We have two relative young CB. Lots of potential and Smalling have shown us how good he could be. But he varies from very good to horrible sometimes. I dont feel we have enough experience and even if we have some good defenders we kind of defend individually. I dont feel like we have someone who glues this defense together. We also have two players that are not full grown sidebacks.

With Mou being our new manager I kind of feel hes struggling to find a formation he wants to play that suits the style of players we got in our squad. This is shown by the way he played Pogba as a deep mid before he moved him up almost playing like a 10. I also feel Pogba doesnt get enough support and is often isolated out of games. We try to play a sort of 4-3-3 with a defending mid that I think should be a good distributer. I dont think Fellaini is good enough. He is useful because of hes strength and height. Other then that there is plenty of better players when it comes to passing the ball then him. Hes a player that I think is more suited for late subs to change the game even if we almost have no ability to hit our crosses. But I actually think he been good so far this season, but he makes no contributions when it comes to attack. I actually think Blind may suit that pos better even if im not comfortable with him there. Ideally we should have someone with Carricks skills there, but hes getting old and is far from hes prime. Im also amazed how Morgan has been totally out of the starting lineup so far. I think Morgan and Pogba could be a good partnership with an attacking mid in front of them. And I think we have the players to play this kind of formation. We could play Herrera and Pogba but I actually think they suit each other better in a 4-3-3. But then again I dont think we have someone who suits the deeplying mid that I want to play in that pos.

When it comes to the attack I really loved that we got Zlatan. But I dont think he suits the style of play we under Mou. Mou play a style of football that doesnt need possession. We often counter. And yes we have good wingers for this, but Zlatan is not the fastest player and there is almost non ability to cross the ball from Lingard, Rashford and Martial. Its like playing Townsend and Saha when playing Crouch on the top. When we play like we do we need to use players that complements each other. Right now, if they are in form, I think Martial, Rash and Mikky is the 3 that I think would play the best together. I think Mata would be a good linkup to this 3 as well. This is how I would start games and then implement Zlatan and Fellaini if we get behind and need goals. But again, dont think Zlatan and Fellaini would be efficient if we dont have the ability to cross the ball.

What I also miss is the ability to go on runs from the deep. When forced out to the corners we almost always have two options. Cross and play back to the sideback. Sometime we pass to the center mid but its almost always in comfort of the opposition. And with no ability to cross it rarely gets dangerous. Liverpool often have their CM to join a triangle in the corners making opposition get out of balance. They pass the ball on one touch and keep the players moving around in that area. Even if it proves to be difficult to defend when doing this they have proven that they can outplay any opposition. And you dont win games if you can only defend. Then you need to have a little luck and good abilities in the right area of the field. Almost all contenders have world class players in does certain areas. We dont and we are not supporting them enough so they would have to make top class efforts just to get the ball in the right areas to even get the chance to score.

Bottom line is that im not happy about how Mou have used the squad so far. He played Martial when he should have played Rashford who was in prime form. He used to many games to implement Herrera in hes plans who has been one of our best since he became a regular. I also feel a manager like Mou would have thought about how he should give Zlatan as much as opportunities as possible maybe training players to actually hit him. Our crossing is horrible.

 

[AngeloHenriquez]

What's the TL-DR version?

 

[marlowe78]

You made a lot of interesting points, I'll try to touch on just a few of them from my point of view.

First off, I think the club is deluding itself to a degree about Smalling. I think he is very good at covering large areas and protecting against danger, but he is not an all-around CB that I would like to build my backline around or view as the #1 player there. We saw in Vidic and Rio what makes for a top-level CB, the fact that they could defend and also were excellent with the ball. Smalling is absolutely not good enough with the ball and our other senior CBs (Jones and Rojo) are questionable, if not absolutely shit with it. This is the main reason IMO why van Gaal decided to make Blind a CB, in that he needed someone who can play it forward with skill and intelligence. We still have not solved this problem; Bailly looks more confident with the ball than Smalling but he is very rough around the edges. And Rojo and Jones are still here. You can't expect to contend for silverware regularly if you don't have well-rounded CBs who can both defend and ball-handle well. There will always be these elements where Smalling is limited and he's not the player to base your entire backline on.

Not only this, but we have fullbacks that are also not particularly good on the ball, which is pretty criminal considering the glut of talented attacking FBs we've had in the past like Evra and Rafael. Again, you can argue that Blind, an intelligent but slow and physically lacking player, is our best ball-playing fullback. Valencia makes something of a case because of his touch and that he is not dispossessed easily but he has little ability to cross well and cannot make a really ambitious pass. BTW Blind, as much as I really like him, will be a major problem if we keep playing with a counterattack strategy. He is fine when we have a load of possession and is only asked to make the occasional defensive play but if we keep sitting back and inviting pressure, he will be too often exposed.

I agree that it's obvious for us to use 4-3-3. We already have two talented forwards in Martial and Rashford, along with a new signing in Mkhitarian and a good supporting player in Lingard (I rate him highly as a squad player). These are all players who can make up the front 3 and create interchange that upsets lines of defense. Ibra can be effective against weaker opponents like Stoke, WBA, Sunderland, etc. who put everyone behind the ball and we need to score from a set position but when the game is open and free-flowing, he slows our attack down. Having him central also inhibits our wingers, who are more effective at cutting in than putting in a cross. Martial ATM looks only a shell of what he was last season, he is being used for run-ups into the final third but is not given enough freedom to cut in with Ibra there. The same looks true for Rashford, who looks lost ATM without being really able to feed off the other players up front and was never really meant to play as a full-blown winger anyway. It really is strange, when you think of it, that Jose would go into this season relying so much on counters and not get a faster veteran striker than Ibra (which could be...well...just about anyone). I would go to 4-3-3 like we did 2nd half against City and seriously consider dropping Ibra, whose form justifies that.

The MF needs to be built around Pogba. He is the athlete of the players we currently have and the one MF who can turn a world-class moment out of nothing. Use Herrera as a sweeper type of player who finds spots in the middle to calm things down and help get Pogba underway on the push forward. The 3rd man would be the holder. Fellaini is too limited and slow to be used in this setup. Carrick is also too slow and would need to be protected in a 4231 with him in the defensive screen. As crazy as it sounds, we might have to hope that Schneiderlin comes into his own as the defensive hub of the midfield or even TFM. I don't see anyone else ATM who can fill this position except maybe Schweinsteiger, who can never stay fit and is probably on the way out. Our only solution might be to get someone for that role in January.

It's pretty ironic, like a case of Groundhog's Day, that we were crying for 2 seasons for Rooney to be dropped on poor form and now we potentially find ourselves in the exact same place with Ibra, right after Rooney was finally dropped. That's going to be a very interesting issue that Jose will need to deal with if things don't pick up with Ibra soon. More interesting than I'd care to see.

 

[Larseno]

You made a lot of interesting points, I'll try to touch on just a few of them from my point of view.

First off, I think the club is deluding itself to a degree about Smalling. I think he is very good at covering large areas and protecting against danger, but he is not an all-around CB that I would like to build my backline around or view as the #1 player there. We saw in Vidic and Rio what makes for a top-level CB, the fact that they could defend and also were excellent with the ball. Smalling is absolutely not good enough with the ball and our other senior CBs (Jones and Rojo) are questionable, if not absolutely shit with it. This is the main reason IMO why van Gaal decided to make Blind a CB, in that he needed someone who can play it forward with skill and intelligence. We still have not solved this problem; Bailly looks more confident with the ball than Smalling but he is very rough around the edges. And Rojo and Jones are still here. You can't expect to contend for silverware regularly if you don't have well-rounded CBs who can both defend and ball-handle well. There will always be these elements where Smalling is limited and he's not the player to base your entire backline on.

Not only this, but we have fullbacks that are also not particularly good on the ball, which is pretty criminal considering the glut of talented attacking FBs we've had in the past like Evra and Rafael. Again, you can argue that Blind, an intelligent but slow and physically lacking player, is our best ball-playing fullback. Valencia makes something of a case because of his touch and that he is not dispossessed easily but he has little ability to cross well and cannot make a really ambitious pass. BTW Blind, as much as I really like him, will be a major problem if we keep playing with a counterattack strategy. He is fine when we have a load of possession and is only asked to make the occasional defensive play but if we keep sitting back and inviting pressure, he will be too often exposed.

I agree that it's obvious for us to use 4-3-3. We already have two talented forwards in Martial and Rashford, along with a new signing in Mkhitarian and a good supporting player in Lingard (I rate him highly as a squad player). These are all players who can make up the front 3 and create interchange that upsets lines of defense. Ibra can be effective against weaker opponents like Stoke, WBA, Sunderland, etc. who put everyone behind the ball and we need to score from a set position but when the game is open and free-flowing, he slows our attack down. Having him central also inhibits our wingers, who are more effective at cutting in than putting in a cross. Martial ATM looks only a shell of what he was last season, he is being used for run-ups into the final third but is not given enough freedom to cut in with Ibra there. The same looks true for Rashford, who looks lost ATM without being really able to feed off the other players up front and was never really meant to play as a full-blown winger anyway. It really is strange, when you think of it, that Jose would go into this season relying so much on counters and not get a faster veteran striker than Ibra (which could be...well...just about anyone). I would go to 4-3-3 like we did 2nd half against City and seriously consider dropping Ibra, whose form justifies that.

The MF needs to be built around Pogba. He is the athlete of the players we currently have and the one MF who can turn a world-class moment out of nothing. Use Herrera as a sweeper type of player who finds spots in the middle to calm things down and help get Pogba underway on the push forward. The 3rd man would be the holder. Fellaini is too limited and slow to be used in this setup. Carrick is also too slow and would need to be protected in a 4231 with him in the defensive screen. As crazy as it sounds, we might have to hope that Schneiderlin comes into his own as the defensive hub of the midfield or even TFM. I don't see anyone else ATM who can fill this position except maybe Schweinsteiger, who can never stay fit and is probably on the way out. Our only solution might be to get someone for that role in January.

It's pretty ironic, like a case of Groundhog's Day, that we were crying for 2 seasons for Rooney to be dropped on poor form and now we potentially find ourselves in the exact same place with Ibra, right after Rooney was finally dropped. That's going to be a very interesting issue that Jose will need to deal with if things don't pick up with Ibra soon. More interesting than I'd care to see.

This is like reading my own thoughts. I have been thinking the same thing about almost everything you are saying right now. If Pogba is such a great player we should build the tactics around him. Most of the best teams have a players that they can focus their play on. Not many teams have the luxury like Barcelona to have world class from what ever side they attack from. But even them give very good support where ever they attack from. If Rash or Martial gets played wide they have limited options and its often a defensive one, because they could either dribble, defensive pass or make a cross. If we support the wingers with one players making opposite movements, we could really make the opposition unbalanced. I think we need to give more support to Pogba. We need to get comfortable playing with short space. Often I see players play back instead of playing between the oppositions players when playing from defense. We also lack support from teammates when one player holds the ball. People are holding positions making it easy to make zone defense. I would like players to fall more out of positions making it harder for defense to mark them.

I could go on and on about stuff I dont think is being done right and why I think that. But I absolutely agree with everything your saying. I still wish we could pull the trigger on LvG around this time last year and signed Klopp. Im happy with Mourinho, and hes able to get players that are world class, but I dont think he suits our squad and the talent we have in our squad. In time he may get the right players, but it will take some time.