Murtough's 2nd Summer | How did he do?

[jeepers]

I think the Glazers didn’t approve selling Maguire and McT, so I won’t put that on Murtough. He’s supported the manager by getting the signings the manager wants, we’ll see how that plays out, it’s still too early to tell with Mount and Hojlund who is yet to play.

It’s going to be difficult for anybody as long as the Glazers are still around.

 

[SAFMUTD]

Failed to proper ship out the deadwood in Maguire, Van de Beek, Bailly, McTominay and Martial.

It's no easy task to be fair and all of those players are either overpaid or underwhelming to a point it's hard to attract interest for them.

Also we have a really thin squad so we can't sell all players and be left to bones. GK and striker covered that's a good thing. I don't understand why we spent so much in Mount who doesn't really fit us and we have much more important holes to fill. Reguilon and Amrabat loan deals are good signings considering the situation we're at.

We still need another striker a midfielder and a CB. But I guess with the limited budget it was too much to ask to fix it all in one summer.

 

[marktan]

For the pressing system we want, he is an upgrade on Eriksen.

My point is, without getting into too many individual comparisons, it's very clear we have an improved squad to last season. We are upgraded in the GK and CF department whilst adding 2 good options with different types of midfielders in the middle.

Pressing but no quality. Might as well picked up someone that can run for £10m. It's not an upgrade.

Hojlund you can't claim is an upgrade since he hasn't played and it's unlikely he'll be great when he does play.

Really I think we're worse off than last season purely because the likes of Spurs and Liverpool have improved quite a lot where as we've only really added Onana that's actually improved us (as of yet).

 

[DutchSerb]

I think we could have done better especially regarding Maguire and I'm still not convinced about Mount, but when you look at the ins and outs on paper it's hard to say we didn't improve. They just need to catch some good form again. I'm not happy with the way we looked just as much as the next guy but I think top 4 should be ours. It's a shame we missed out on Kane as I'm certain he would've made us a title challenger, but at the same time the team needed to get younger and I'm very hopeful Hojlund can become a hit.

 

[Kag]

The conversation is a lot more sophisticated than looking at our transfers and then John Murtough in isolation.

Put it this way: we’re not flailing around bringing in players on loan with hours to spare because the Director of Football doesn’t know what he’s doing. We know why this is and we know who is to blame. Bastards.

 

[always_hoping]

I think the fact it gets called his window is completely inaccurate. I don’t think he is any more than a middle man, manager is still significantly more powerful, there is zero sign of any long term plan and no vision beyond here and now.

Overall if you look at what we’ve spent in last two summers, the wages we’ve dished out etc it’s not good and no signs of much improving.

The chief executive is the main man at the club for dealing with transfers in and out and contracts, wages players get.

The manager gives recommendations on who they'd like at the club but rarely get first choice options.

 

[Revan]

Bad.

Onana -> I think we did alright here. Wouldn’t have been my first choice, but he is a good keeper and is put in a sane salary. Slightly overpaid for him.

Mount -> ETH should have been vetoed for this signing. It makes no sense at all. His salary is also crazy (x3 in what he was on Chelsea). I think this is gonna be a Maguire type of signing.

Hojlund -> not clear to me cause have not seen a lot of him, but based on number of goals he has scored and ‘youtube scouting’ looked like we overpaid for him.

Second keeper -> ok I guess

Reguilon -> very cheap so it should not matter but also not a fan of signing players that are third choice for Spurs.

Amrabat -> great signing for the money we spent.

Sales:

McTominay -> big feck up in our side for not getting West Han’s bid. We will not get more money for him.

Maguire -> another feck up for not pressuring Maguire to leave.

Henderson -> Good, I think. Hard to imagine getting more for him.

Elanga -> great fee.

VdB -> sad that we couldn’t sell him.

Bailly -> we weren’t going to sell him cause no one would touch him, he is Jones 2.0

Telles and the kids -> good.

I think the main issue is that despite we spent around 200m, and more than 100m in net, we are not closer to challenging than we were. I think there were better combinations of signings that would have allowed to get closer (for example buying Kane/Osimehn, Kim and another midfielder for Mount, Hojlund, Maguire and McTominay money. Heck even keeping De Gea/Henderson for another season while signing a top striker, a top midfielder and a top defender would have brought us closer). I also hate that we are doing what we always do, go for manager’s signings. And like we did with Antony last year, we did the same mistake with Mount on giving to them a far larger salary than they should be on, which makes them unsellable.

I think he should be one of the first sackings from the next regime, assuming that Glazers finally sell the club.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

What’s the alternative, sign players that the manager doesn’t want. What would you have done instead, I’m genuinely curious?

Do what the other clubs do. Let the manager have a say, let him veto signings if needed, but don't let him drive transfer policy.

 

[bringbackbebe]

Some people will always keep complaining. For about 100m net, we've got all our priority targets (Onana for De Gea, Hojland for Ronaldo/Weghorst, Mount for Fred, Bayindir for Heaton), plus Amrabat & Reguilon on loan deals for literally nothing. This for me is one of the smartest windows we've had in a very long time.

 

[Ali Dia]

I said we are no closer to where we were last season.

Onana is an upgrade to DDG but what will this upgrade be worth in points if our defence hasn't improved and only having a marginal improvement up front.

When you factor in a potential decline in performance from Casemiro and Eriksen where is the big improvement.

Højlund is the wildcard from last sesson to this season. If he's a hit right out the gate then its a serious upgrade but realistically, I don't see him having that big of an impact in his first season.

2020/21 squad is stronger than last season and this season. So I stand by my point that Murtough has had two seasons in charge and not built a stronger squad.

By the same token then the likes of Martinez, Sancho and Antony should improve as they enter their prime?

I think it’s been a 6.5 due to not being able to just cast off players who aren’t good enough. That’s clearly on the owners though. We continue to hold onto EL level players while the competition keep picking up top level prospects and trying again and again to crack the code. I really hope we have new owners next season who can go out and get us a Gvardiol and a Bellingham type, we stop ignoring the South American market and finally bring the age of the squad down. We need to be focusing on that from now on because Casemiro and Varane need competition and eventually to be replaced and we have no depth at ST once martial heads off on a free.

 

[Sarni]

I think the Glazers didn’t approve selling Maguire and McT, so I won’t put that on Murtough. He’s supported the manager by getting the signings the manager wants, we’ll see how that plays out, it’s still too early to tell with Mount and Hojlund who is yet to play.

It’s going to be difficult for anybody as long as the Glazers are still around.

How do you come to that conclusion? Do you reckon Glazers are massive fans of both?

We accepted West Ham’s bid but Glazers went and convinced Maguire to stay? This theory just doesn’t make any real sense.

 

[Katy Cat]

There are some strange responses in - honestly, I think you have to put all of this in a credible context: we're looking at making incremental change over the 2-3 windows to get to a position where our squad is more competitive in an increasingly competitive, expanding group. We aren't making a serious title challenge this season or next, but we can begin to repair some of the damage done and have a better foundation to build-on. Assuming we have new owners. We are not winning any titles under a Glazer model.

On why City (and Chelsea) are selling players for so much more, it's about business model and markets. Both clubs have developed academy designs that effectively scoop-up some of the best prospects from other clubs, loan them out - often to their own club network - and exploit their 'brand' cachet, usually at a peak value. It's integral to how they operate and, ahem, work within FFP. Palmer, Trafford and Maatsen are seen as highly desirable, premium 'products'. Put another way, City actively source the IP equivalent, put it through a design process and then market it better than the rest: the Apple to our Nokia.

I'd go 6-7/10 assuming Amrabat arrives...and that's probably close to our ceiling given all the constraints we're dealing in.

 

[FerociousCorgis]

man i wish people would just stop saying we shouldve signed kane. That wasnt going to happen and even if we couldve convinced kane to come here i legit think levy wouldve quoted us damn near twice what bayern paid. Dude is just that ridiculously greedy. Hojlund was prob one of the top options we couldve brought in, as there werent a lot of big name CF's available that are no brainer locks. Even osimhen isnt exactly proven at this level like Kane. The mount deal is definitely one that will be scrutinized the most, as for value think we couldve, and shouldve, been able to find 2 players for that price damn near. If he becomes a top player for us then we will be glad for the splurge but i do have some doubts.

The big miss for me is not getting anything for maguire and mctominay. Those two being here even though they are clearly not wanted is just ridiculous. That 60 million double deal couldve seen 30 for mctominay of pure profit, then essentially a wash for maguire. Use part of that money to get a CB prospect like todibo or whatever his name was and wed be fine right now, even with varane injured yet again. Glad we finally shipped out henderson at least though. Damn leeches at this club wont leave and allow us to truly change things around here.

Oh and totally forgot that we still have players like bailly and dvb here when they have absolutely no future for us moving forward ha. Shit like that is just hilarious to think about.

 

[Lebowski]

The conversation is a lot more sophisticated than looking at our transfers and then John Murtough in isolation.

Put it this way: we’re not flailing around bringing in players on loan with hours to spare because the Director of Football doesn’t know what he’s doing. We know why this is and we know who is to blame. Bastards.

Agreed. It's a strange idea for a topic when looking at Murtough in isolation is both difficult (because we don't know who is precisely responsible for what at United nor what is expected of him), and also seems pointless (we're supporters of United not members of the John Murtough appreciation society).

It's been written on this page that he can't be held responsible for signing Mount or overpaying for him because he was the manager's target, he can't be blamed for the deadline day desperation loan moves because his hands are tied with FFP because of Woodward and the Glazers, and he isn't responsible for not selling deadwood because the players didn't want to leave United or give up their big wages.

I can understand a more broad question like "how would you rate this window's business" or "has the club hierarchy given the manager the tools they need to build on last season" but a limited appraisal of Murtough in isolation seems a bit pointless.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

I see we've finally entered the "actually it was a great window" cope phase.

 

[colombianmancunian]

Incomes: Upgraded massively on De Gea, signed a promising young striker and a redundant player in Mount. Failed to bring a DM and an experienced striker. 6/10 for me.

Outcomes: Got rid of Fred and Henderson, but McTominay, Maguire and DVB still at the club. 4/10.

So for me our summer is a 5/10 all things considered.

 

[Andycoleno9]

3/10.

1) Again he was his manager's bitch. Only plan was to buy players from manager's personal list. Zero longterm vision .
2) Overpayed Hojlund
3) Overpayed Mount
4) failed to sell Maguire
5) Rejected good and only offer for 6th choice midfielder (McTominay).

Guy is completely out of depth.

 

[GMoore23]

I think its clear we are closer.

Mount is an upgrade on Eriksen
Onana is an upgrade on DDG
Amrabat is an upgrade on Fred
Hojlund is an upgrade on Wehorst

Mainoo will be integrated further
Garnacho's second season to establish himself further

Etc.

Not at CM
Too early to judge
Too early to judge
Anyone would be an upgrade

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

What do you think other clubs do?. Not sure how you can be genuinely curious when there are plenty of alternatives.

So spend 1b and sign every player you can think of like Chelsea? Get rejected by all your top targets like Liverpool? Sell your best player and don’t replace him like Tottenham? Cheat and be slapped with 115 charges like City? Which of these other clubs do we wish we were like?

 

[Idxomer]

Overpaid and undersold.

 

[saivet]

My main criticism of him would be that it appears ETH is providing the direction for transfers with his input rather than the other way around. If we had appointed Poch instead, I think our transfer business would have been quite different.

He's pretty much delivered everything that ETH has requested of him which is something at least but I don't think that's a sustainable model - better than what we had before but fundamentally flawed.

 

[Big Ben Foster]

So spend 1b and sign every player you can think of like Chelsea? Get rejected by all your top targets like Liverpool? Sell your best player and don’t replace him like Tottenham? Cheat and be slapped with 115 charges like City? Which of these other clubs do we wish we were like?

Real Madrid and Bayern should be the benchmark. Liverpool came undone a bit this summer, but their transfer strategy over the last 5+ years has been top notch otherwise. Arsenal has also done a fantastic job under Edu.

 

[Sylar]

As it stands, Id have the summer window as a 5.5 at best out of 10.

I dont think weve closed the gap on City at all.
Weve sold a few players that we needed to, but still have some too.
Were better in GK and striker department (albeit the latter still to be seen as we havent played him yet and thats a lot of pressure at the price)

I think were going to be fighting for CL spot again and maybe a cup run. Hopefully we do better of course.
We though, had that last year, so our signings right now look to be in terms of maintaining that rather than improving.

Our structure is flawed overall though imo. One thing to back a manager, but as weve seen with previous managers, it can be detrimental if things dont work out with the manager, because the next manager will have players he wants replaced.

 

[Wheato]

People getting fixated on Maguire and McTominay have to take into consideration the other stuff that is happening.

In just over a year, it is safe to say they we have done a fair bit to change this squad.

Permanently left the club in the last 12 months (25 players)

Ronaldo (400k per week)
De Gea (350k per week)
Pogba (250k per week)
Mata (180k per week)
Matic (150k per week)
Fred (150k per week)
Lingard (130k per week)
Jones (130k per week)
Henderson (120k per week)
Garner
Savage
Zidane
Elanga
Telles
Tuanzebe
Mengi
Hardley
Galbraith
Laird
Bernard
Bishop
Kovar
Emeran
Wellens
Norkett
Mastny

Incomings

Martinez
Antony
Casemiro
Erikson
Onana
Hojlund
Mount
Amrabat
Bayindir
Reguilon

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

Real Madrid and Bayern should be the benchmark. Liverpool came undone a bit this summer, but their transfer strategy over the last 5+ years has been top notch otherwise. Arsenal has also done a fantastic job under Edu.

Forget Bayern and Madrid, they’re clubs in different countries so it’s totally different. As for Liverpool, they’ve spent an absolute fortune and under Klopp only have 1 CL and 1 Covid PL to show for it. If their transfer strategy was so good I don’t think they would have been playing James Milner in midfield against Real Madrid in the champions league last season.

 

[VP89]

Pressing but no quality. Might as well picked up someone that can run for £10m. It's not an upgrade.

That is absolute and utter bullshit. The Mount trashing is just too much it has to be a joke these days.

Hojlund you can't claim is an upgrade since he hasn't played and it's unlikely he'll be great when he does play.

It is beyond reasonable doubt that he's going to be a tangible upgrade on Weghorst - the guy who couldnt muster a single PL Goal during his stint with us.

Really I think we're worse off than last season purely because the likes of Spurs and Liverpool have improved quite a lot where as we've only really added Onana that's actually improved us (as of yet).

Liverpool? They just had to rebuild their midfield and lost key influences in the dressing room. Their defence is still shite and Trent still plays drunk.

Not at CM
Too early to judge
Too early to judge
Anyone would be an upgrade

Mount is a CM for us, and he fits the system Ten Hag wants.



Also generally speaking, cant say "too early to judge" but then say "oh we are weaker". You've essentially classed our signings as not good enough but you dont want to consider the other direction as it's too early

 

[Its all gone Shane Long]

A solid 7 for me…good have been much better if the leaches at the top gave him the money to move on prime targets

 

[Big Ben Foster]

Forget Bayern and Madrid, they’re clubs in different countries so it’s totally different. As for Liverpool, they’ve spent an absolute fortune and under Klopp only have 1 CL and 1 Covid PL to show for it. If their transfer strategy was so good I don’t think they would have been playing James Milner in midfield against Real Madrid in the champions league last season.

And yet we've spent orders of magnitude more and have feck all to show for it aside from a few League Cups.

But sure, let's keep doing what we've been doing for the last 10 years. Surely this time it will work.

 

[JuriM]

I think kind of okay, depends on how we can offload some other players in the near future who are not needable for the level we want to be and earn way too much.

 

[Irwin99]

Lot depends on the Hojlund signing but as i've said many times I see a good top 4 side but i'm not sure where this team develops to be a title winning team and with the money spent shouldn't we really be expecting a title challenge next season?

I assume this is our first choice 11:

Onana
AWB Varane Martinez Shaw
Bruno Casemiro Mount
Antony Hojlund Rashford

I don't know, it's good but it still looks lacking compared to where we want to be. Time will tell i guess.

 

[luke511]

People getting fixated on Maguire and McTominay have to take into consideration the other stuff that is happening.

In just over a year, it is safe to say they we have done a fair bit to change this squad.

Permanently left the club in the last 12 months (25 players)

Ronaldo (400k per week)
De Gea (350k per week)
Pogba (250k per week)
Mata (180k per week)
Matic (150k per week)
Fred (150k per week)
Lingard (130k per week)
Jones (130k per week)
Henderson (120k per week)
Garner
Savage
Zidane
Elanga
Telles
Tuanzebe
Mengi
Hardley
Galbraith
Laird
Bernard
Bishop
Kovar
Emeran
Wellens
Norkett
Mastny

Incomings

Martinez
Antony
Casemiro
Erikson
Onana
Hojlund
Mount
Amrabat
Bayindir
Reguilon

Free transfers out don't deserve a pat on the back really. Keeping hold of Lingard after the successful West Ham loan, the summer before he left on a free, was one of Murtough's first failings here as DoF. McTominay would've been his biggest sale and he fecked it. Dan James to Fulham remains as his biggest sale, for £25 million, over the course of 3 summers.

 

[Roboc7]

So spend 1b and sign every player you can think of like Chelsea? Get rejected by all your top targets like Liverpool? Sell your best player and don’t replace him like Tottenham? Cheat and be slapped with 115 charges like City? Which of these other clubs do we wish we were like?

Are they the only alternatives you are aware of?. Is that really what’s happened at Liverpool the last few years or have you just got carried away with few transfers this season. If getting rejected by everyone results in a title and Champions League o wouldn’t say no.

 

[Red Indian Chief Torn Rubber]

Snatched success from the jaws of doom

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

And yet we've spent orders of magnitude more and have feck all to show for it aside from a few League Cups.

But sure, let's keep doing what we've been doing for the last 10 years. Surely this time it will work.

That isn’t what we are doing though. Ten Hag has been manager for a little over a year and has already won a trophy, got to the final of another and comfortably get into the champions league, we literally couldn’t have asked for a better first season so he deserves praise and backing. He has proven he knows what he’s doing in the transfer market and this summer he has brought in 4 first team players who all desperately wanted to join the club for footballing reasons. In previous years we were signing big name players that didn’t fit in with the club and were only here for a pay day. To say we are doing the same thing in the transfer market as we have been doing for the past 10 years is absurd.

 

[bdspeedy]

3 out of 10. As usual, we cheaped out and settled for stop gaps. We passed on players who could have helped to close the gap between us and the TOP teams. It's either --massively overpay orrrr..... gum, spit and duct tape, for our parasite owners and yet, we kept the deadwood because we couldn't convince anyone to overpay for them. We are absolutely INEPT. How many players in the past few years have we NOT sold because we wanted a few more quid and then never played them and let them leave for nothing? Ok, back to the season. Let's get behind the signings we did make and hope somehow McThom grows a football brain and is played in a more offensive role. Let's hope that Maguire somehow gains 3 yards of pace and gets his head screwed back on. Hope Donnie gets time. Theres a player in there somewhere. F- the Glazers and their enabling board. The worst part is that they're still here f-ing up the team. Drive them out. Not 1 cent to these grifters.

 

[IRELANDUNITED]

Are they the only alternatives you are aware of?. Is that really what’s happened at Liverpool the last few years or have you just got carried away with few transfers this season. If getting rejected by everyone results in a title and Champions League o wouldn’t say no.

Yes

Are they the only alternatives you are aware of?. Is that really what’s happened at Liverpool the last few years or have you just got carried away with few transfers this season. If getting rejected by everyone results in a title and Champions League o wouldn’t say no.

That’s exactly what’s happened with Liverpool, their top target this summer was Bellingham, then Caicedo, Lavia, Mount and Amrabat all rejected them in favour of other clubs. You cannot compare ten Hag to Klopp because ten Hag has been in England for 1 year, Klopp has been here for 8 years. If by 2030 ten Hag is still here and hasn’t matched the handful of trophies Klopp has then you might have a point.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

6/10

Onana: A+ Best keeper on the market and instant upgrade that perfectly fits into the side, and the fee was very reasonable
Hojlund: B Probably the best young striker prospect on the market that we could get, and once Kane was a no go then this was the next best option. Fee is a bit pricey but understandable given the lack of striker options on the market.
Mount: C He was ETH's first choice and maybe this isn't JM's fault, but early signs are he doesn't fit into a first XI side and we paid somewhat of a premium for a player coming off a crap season in which he was often injured and had 1 year left on his deal. We got it done, but eh.
Amrabat: B We should have had him about 2 months ago given how hard he pushed for us and how affordable he was, but we couldn't get it done until a deadline day loan
Reguilon and Backup keeper: Not really going to rate either, we needed depth and got it but neither move the needle.

Problem is our selling sucked again. Henderson could have been sold a year ago for more, McTominay we avoided selling even though he doesn't really have a fit in our side, Maguire... yeah the less said the better. We gave away multiple youngsters and got rid of Elanga for 15m when he'd have gone for almost double if City was selling him. It's a consistent issue every window that we struggle to offload players without getting pennies on the dollar for them, and it affects our ability to stockpile our war chest to go after the top level guys. So yeah 6/10 seems right.

 

[tomaldinho1]

Got to wait until the end of the window surely.

 

[Valencia Shin Crosses]

Pressing but no quality. Might as well picked up someone that can run for £10m. It's not an upgrade.

Hojlund you can't claim is an upgrade since he hasn't played and it's unlikely he'll be great when he does play.

Really I think we're worse off than last season purely because the likes of Spurs and Liverpool have improved quite a lot where as we've only really added Onana that's actually improved us (as of yet).

Oh I disagree about Hojlund. He could hardly score and he'll still be better than Weghorst and crocked Martial. Now how much better who knows, he could hit the ground running and be an instant impact or he could be first season Nunez where he has moments of frustration and brilliance throughout the season. But saying he isn't an upgrade is just ignorance.

 

[Amir]

Forget Bayern and Madrid, they’re clubs in different countries so it’s totally different. As for Liverpool, they’ve spent an absolute fortune and under Klopp only have 1 CL and 1 Covid PL to show for it. If their transfer strategy was so good I don’t think they would have been playing James Milner in midfield against Real Madrid in the champions league last season.

They ran a brilliant City side very close for two more seasons and reached two more CL finals against Real Madrid, while playing brilliant football. I'm all for laughing at the scousers, but let's be real here: We can only dream of being as good as they've been in some of the recent seasons.

They haven't done things perfectly, but they've done things very well to reach that level. If we had done things as well, and then added what should be our bigger financial abilities, we could have achieved even more than them. Instead, we achieved far less.