Melville Red
Full Member
Do you trust Woody to get that right?They're both 30 and very upgradable. No big loss if we get the right man in.
Do you trust Woody to get that right?They're both 30 and very upgradable. No big loss if we get the right man in.
Plenty of Europa League games next season, we can't change the whole squad overnight.So much for Ole's so called ruthlessness and 'survival of the fittest' when he wants Mata to stay.
Play Garner/Chong/Gomes/Greenwood. We can't change the squad overnight but we can damn make sure that we don't keep rewarding every dud on expiring contract with a new deal.Plenty of Europa League games next season, we can't change the whole squad overnight.
The free fall that we are in, requires some drastic changes in order to stop. Giving new contracts to Jones, Young and Mata does look the opposite.Plenty of Europa League games next season, we can't change the whole squad overnight.
Absolutely! If you take a step back and look at it objectively then Mata and Ander are both good squad players. Mata should only be used as cover for the no10 role (if we play one) and Herrera is still a good midfielder. Real ambition would be to keep both as squad members and build our first 11 with more quality.If it's possible and reasonable, I think we should try to keep both for depth. Letting class players leave while keeping Lingard, Jones and Young is crazy.
Aging Mata still outscored Lingard or Pereira and has much better attitude than Martial.The free fall that we are in, requires some drastic changes in order to stop. Giving new contracts to Jones, Young and Mata does look the opposite.
If it's possible and reasonable, I think we should try to keep both for depth. Letting class players leave while keeping Lingard, Jones and Young is crazy.
All depends on the wages they are requesting, the rumor pretty much with all journalists is that Herrera is holding out for 200k per week which is scandalous! That's said to be 20k per week more than Fernandinho and 80k per week more than Bernardo Silva!Absolutely! If you take a step back and look at it objectively then Mata and Ander are both good squad players. Mata should only be used as cover for the no10 role (if we play one) and Herrera is still a good midfielder. Real ambition would be to keep both as squad members and build our first 11 with more quality.
Lingard and Pereira are not good enough. Sell them instead. Get rid of Sanchez and his cancerous wages, Martial and his undeserving attitude and Lukaku. Mata and Herrera still have uses and a good attitude.
It seems funny when people think youth players will just play games. If there's no youth player in the last 2 games this season. There's no chance there's barely gonna be more next season. Ole needs the wins, so he's not risking it.Play Garner/Chong/Gomes/Greenwood. We can't change the squad overnight but we can damn make sure that we don't keep rewarding every dud on expiring contract with a new deal.
Aging Mata is a better player than Lingard, but that's not much of a feet is it? They are both not good enough and should leave at first opportunity. Mata coming to an end of his contract is a perfect opportunity to let him leave. I'm not sure why you involved Pereira in all this. He's barely getting to grips with the club and this is his first proper season. I'm not sure what's the plan for him but he's in the same category as McTominay for me, I'd keep him for another season.Aging Mata still outscored Lingard or Pereira and has much better attitude than Martial.
Garner is a centre mid, so not really Mata's position.
Not saying we should offer him 4yr contract, but there are simply players with worse quality/attitude and we should deal with them first.
We might also sell Sanchez and Lukaku, so would be nice having at least one experienced attacking player for the next season.
We have far worse players than Herrera and Mata that we need to clear out in our squad.So much for Ole's so called ruthlessness and 'survival of the fittest' when he wants Mata to stay.
Next season, I would rather see us buy players with players capable of getting top 4 comfortably, sacrifice Europa league by playing lot of youth/young players to give them a top level of experience & let our main squad focus on getting top 4.It seems funny when people think youth players will just play games. If there's no youth player in the last 2 games this season. There's no chance there's barely gonna be more next season. Ole needs the wins, so he's not risking it.
Agree with all of this. Really well put.the desire to extend Mata and Herrera is a sensible on from a footballing, financial and practical point of view
from a footballing point of view youd love to extend Herrera and move on Matic who looks done. Herrera has arguably been our best player under Ole and his absence coincided with our awful form. As limited as Mata is he's our most accurate passer and we've a lack of options.
financially the Glazers aren't going to spend 300m - 200m max and given we need 4/5 in we will struggle to buy replacements given if Mata and Herrera leave we are looking at 6/7 out
practically I've no confidence in our ability to negotiate deals for players at a decent price given our current structure. I'd be delighted to see us bring in some young up and coming talent but if you are meeting Woody or more experienced, convincing representatives from Juve, Barca, Madrid, Munich, City and Liverpool I'm not sure you pick United.
Those clubs all are fairly settled and well organised whilst from the outside looking in United looks chaotic with players reportedly looking out
That's you're thinking. Ole is gonna be challenging on all fronts and spread him too thin which will result in him getting knocked out of all comps. But he'll still use his strongest squad for EL and PL games. Doubt United can win it again. It was lucky last time.Next season, I would rather see us buy players with players capable of getting top 4 comfortably, sacrifice Europa league by playing lot of youth/young players to give them a top level of experience & let our main squad focus on getting top 4.
My thinking is what the fans are thinking. If Ole is the right man, then he should realise the fans want a major trophy not another Europa league trophy again. Sacrificing Europa league & giving youth chance in that tournament is one of the initial step for our long term success.That's you're thinking. Ole is gonna be challenging on all fronts and spread him too thin which will result in him getting knocked out of all comps. But he'll still use his strongest squad for EL and PL games. Doubt United can win it again. It was lucky last time.
I was refering to the post above saying that Garner, Greenwood, Chong and Gomes should play in EL instead of Mata.Aging Mata is a better player than Lingard, but that's not much of a feet is it? They are both not good enough and should leave at first opportunity. Mata coming to an end of his contract is a perfect opportunity to let him leave. I'm not sure why you involved Pereira in all this. He's barely getting to grips with the club and this is his first proper season. I'm not sure what's the plan for him but he's in the same category as McTominay for me, I'd keep him for another season.
I'm not sure why you brought up Garner also.
Yes there are players with worse quality but that does not make this right either. Writing a blog and coming every other week with nice comments and "how we ought to make things right" from the likes of Mata we've been hearing in the last 4 years to be fair, but ultimately he's never been good enough and we should look to move him on. Along with the other even shittier players.
Good thoughts but I would be surprised if he sells Lingard.Absolutely! If you take a step back and look at it objectively then Mata and Ander are both good squad players. Mata should only be used as cover for the no10 role (if we play one) and Herrera is still a good midfielder. Real ambition would be to keep both as squad members and build our first 11 with more quality.
Lingard and Pereira are not good enough. Sell them instead. Get rid of Sanchez and his cancerous wages, Martial and his undeserving attitude and Lukaku. Mata and Herrera still have uses and a good attitude.
Winning the Europa League is a path to Champions League. You cannot give that competition up. That would be insanity.My thinking is what the fans are thinking. If Ole is the right man, then he should realise the fans want a major trophy not another Europa league trophy again. Sacrificing Europa league & giving youth chance in that tournament is one of the initial step for our long term success.
I think with his form against Chelsea, Mata starts. He provides you with clever movement, and spots a pass. He in short gives us the football cunning that we desperately need. Pogba doesn't give you as much of that. I would let Lukaku go but only if there was a replacement and that replacement is not Moussa Dembele. Lingard. Well Lingard could be super, but I would put him alongside Martial... very inconsistent. Final ball, final anything often lets him down. I don't like the fact he has this fashion brand already and he is not even an established first teamer. Good squad player, granted, but still too inconsistent.Good thoughts but I would be surprised if he sells Lingard.
Your point about attitude is spot on.
Ok you quoted me but referred to another post. Chong and Gomes should get chances instead of Mata yes, why not? They are the future of this club, while Mata has no long term potential and let's be frank he's not good enough as of present quality. Chong will be 20 next season and Gomes 19, both are very talented and should get chances. I agree Mata brings valuable experience and would rather see Lingard go, but the contract situation brings other factors into play.I was refering to the post above saying that Garner, Greenwood, Chong and Gomes should play in EL instead of Mata.
Greenwood is a striker, Garner a centre mid, so if we're bringing youngsters to this discussion - Mata's competition would be Chong/Gomes and both of them aren't ready to start games regularly. Gomes hasn't played in ages and Chong was very raw every time he's played.
So what's the plan? Let Mata go, sell everyone - and who's going to play? We've got EL games next season, so we must have options on the bench.
I'll repeat this as well - we might sell Sanchez/Lukaku and Mata could be our only experienced player up front, which all the younger players will need. Keeping him for another season of transition makes sense to me.
If Gomes or Chong are good enough, they'll get their minutes anyway.
Winning EL is an easier way to get CL. Getting top 4 comfortably is also path of champions league in harder way, if we want to improve as a team, we can’t just thinking about getting champions league spot, we need to see the bigger picture.Winning the Europa League is a path to Champions League. You cannot give that competition up. That would be insanity.
Did you forget what happened with Fellaini? This club operates in differently.It's the 4th of May...surely if they were to sign new deals it would have been done long before now.
the desire to extend Mata and Herrera is a sensible on from a footballing, financial and practical point of view
from a footballing point of view youd love to extend Herrera and move on Matic who looks done. Herrera has arguably been our best player under Ole and his absence coincided with our awful form. As limited as Mata is he's our most accurate passer and we've a lack of options.
financially the Glazers aren't going to spend 300m - 200m max and given we need 4/5 in we will struggle to buy replacements given if Mata and Herrera leave we are looking at 6/7 out
practically I've no confidence in our ability to negotiate deals for players at a decent price given our current structure. I'd be delighted to see us bring in some young up and coming talent but if you are meeting Woody or more experienced, convincing representatives from Juve, Barca, Madrid, Munich, City and Liverpool I'm not sure you pick United.
Those clubs all are fairly settled and well organised whilst from the outside looking in United looks chaotic with players reportedly looking out
Bang on point!Absolutely! If you take a step back and look at it objectively then Mata and Ander are both good squad players. Mata should only be used as cover for the no10 role (if we play one) and Herrera is still a good midfielder. Real ambition would be to keep both as squad members and build our first 11 with more quality.
Lingard and Pereira are not good enough. Sell them instead. Get rid of Sanchez and his cancerous wages, Martial and his undeserving attitude and Lukaku. Mata and Herrera still have uses and a good attitude.
Don't share your views on McTominay at all. He has a good attitude and will be a good strong player.I think with his form against Chelsea, Mata starts. He provides you with clever movement, and spots a pass. He in short gives us the football cunning that we desperately need. Pogba doesn't give you as much of that. I would let Lukaku go but only if there was a replacement and that replacement is not Moussa Dembele. Lingard. Well Lingard could be super, but I would put him alongside Martial... very inconsistent. Final ball, final anything often lets him down. I don't like the fact he has this fashion brand already and he is not even an established first teamer. Good squad player, granted, but still too inconsistent.
Matic can go, McTominay too. We need players with a football brain. We need midfielders who have a creative vision, that can spot a defence splitting forward pass quickly. What we don't need are more players adept at passing the responsibility to someone else, who are adept at passing sideways and backwards and slowing our play right down. United are at their best playing fast incisive football, not slow slow boring slow.
Catch up to Tottenham you mean?We need to bring in 5 players this coming window if we really mean to catch others up. We must also get rid of the deadwood and those who do not want to be here.
That would be a start, Yes.Catch up to Tottenham you mean?