Let's move back to North Road.
New Stadium or Revamp Old Trafford
- Thread starter Ian Reus
- Start date
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In the latest episode of the United Hour Podcast, Nik @Rood and Imran @Annihilate Now! start with the good news by celebrating Manchester United Women's emphatic FA Cup win over Spurs at Wembley and the future of manager Marc Skinner.
Then it's the bad news and the ever worsening form of our Men with losses to Arsenal and Palace.
Finally the main debate - ETH Out now or keep him until the end of the season - if not longer. Are you Team Nik or Team Imran?
Anything concrete to back up this initial point or is this just your usual ‘I know better’ rhetoric?
I happen to think more investment will come but right now on paper they are committed to £300mil. There’s nothing concrete to say the further investment you have an inside track on will go on the stadium anyway.
As you says, ‘Fans need to have some patience and allow ineos to get through the door before declaring’ they’re going to be putting in untold fortunes.
Everybody round spoonys house!
I agree that the faults are exaggerated. There’s still tickets that are brilliant value compared to other Premier League clubs, and other sports too. Hopefully this would be become even more accessible with more capacity, although I’m not naive, this is a best case scenario. I don’t think the atmosphere is great compared to other stadiums I’ve been at though. Certain nights will still be great for the fans in the stadium, but overall, the acoustics don’t travel well to other parts of the stadium.
New stadiums are never about the short term. Arsenal and Spurs may have struggled in the short term, but I’d argue both are now punching above their weight. Arsenal would never have been competing if they had stayed at Highbury, and Spurs will be reaping the rewards of that stadium for years to come.
I’m not reading that. Do me a favour and put me on ignore will you?
Don’t believe in it. You can always put me on ignore though.
Me: Where do you get your information from?
Plant: I’m not reading that. * cough * cause I made it up * cough *
You may have missed the irony in my response.
If you want to discuss the ineos investment, or the stadium revamp/rebuild then go ahead. But, as is your form, you want to get personal and throw insults around jog on because I’m not here for it.
. . .You may have missed the irony in my response.
If you want to discuss the ineos investment, or the stadium revamp/rebuild then go ahead. But, as is your form, you want to get personal and throw insults around jog on because I’m not here for it.
Your post I wasn’t reading. . .
I count 8 paragraphs & a foreword by J.K. Rowling. The irony in your comparison fades completely by the 5th paragraph. Not a chance I’m ready that crap then or now.Why aggressive/defensive?
There is no narrative, I speak as I find and at the time credible sources were reporting the plan involved a roadmap to a majority and subsequent possibility of 100% and taking the club off the stock exchange. It was reasonable to assume this was the plan given Sir Jim’s desire to buy a majority from the get go. I still hope this is the end goal, although I’m willing to admit it seems a whole lot more sketchy now. We are all just gonna have to suck it and see.
Maybe I got a little carried away, after all we had months of Jassim this and Jassim that and it was only a matter of time. To find out that it was actually Sir Jim getting a deal done was a blessed relief, but generally yeah - don’t hang your hat on what journos looking for clicks are saying. You can consider this example a cautionary tale!!
For what it’s worth, Sir Jim and INEOS have never been a perfect scenario. Even purchasing the Glazers whole 69% and having majority control as per the first bid was fraught with complications and compromises. But I have favoured this bid because I believe it to be the best for the club going forward.
The whole mystique and subterfuge of the Qatar bid was a huge turn off. Just put your cards on the table and play it straight. Are you a front for a state bid or a private citizen? How are you funding the bid? If you want 100% then why won’t you pay the asking price? Why didn’t you turn up in person? Do you understand that it’s the Glazers you have to impress, not the fans? I understood the whole allure of endless cash and glitzy transfers, state of the art stadiums and training centres but at the end of the day their bid was only about money, and without wanting to sound corny United means more to me than that. That’s before we get into the whole state ownership/sportwashing thing that has been done to death.
If their was a third credible way, which appealed more I would have backed it, indeed if Jassim didn’t seem too good to be true I could have backed him, but in the end it was a straight choice between Qatar and ineos and the rest is history now.
I’ve never claimed to be ITK either, I’m certainly definitely no better informed than any caftard, but I do get my hair off with all the opinion, half truths and lies that gather traction and get banded around as fact which is why Ive banged on in the thread as much as I have. I only ever wanted fellow fans to have correct information to make their judgement on, and if they have a different opinion to me then so be it. I hope you’d agree with the little information and misleading reports we’ve all had to go on in the last 12 months that there has been a fair amount of arse-chat on both sides of the debate.
I too hope this goes well and we start to see attractive winning football because ultimately hope is all we have as fans. I’d like to think now we have an outcome the fan base can unite behind a new way, but I’m not naive or deluded enough to think we actually will.
Merry Christmas to you too mate, I hope you’re having a better day than it seems from the tone of your posts!
I do hope you had a good Christmas though. Feel free to tell us all where you get your United intel from whenever you’re ready.
I think @Plant0x84 points, as with many of us, is an educated guess. SJR isn’t going to spend this long and be this dedicated to making the club better to *just* put in $300M - he’s clearly going to put in more. Especially because the wording was an “initial” investment of $200m now and $100m later.
Having spent 10 years refurbishing a 130 year old house, I’d now go for a new build anyday of the week.
If you read my initial post I’ve said I think SjR will invest more so that isn’t the point.
What I am saying is we don’t know how much & more importantly where that money will go so to shut down another posters reservations because ‘SjR will invest more’ as if this will definitely go to the stadium is ridiculous.
As you point out we know there will be an “initial” investment of $300mil, so you or Plant have anything concrete to show that further investment will be of similar size &/or for the stadium?
Let’s say this is a long play from the Glazers & SjR isn’t going to grow what will become 29%ish, will he invest similarly? The premise of the ‘SjR will invest’ argument your making only looks at it if things go to plan. Knowing the Glazers, SjR isn’t going to get the club easily even at this point.
Idk if Its possible to develop the existing stadium to modern standards. I'd say knock it down and build a modern stadium in the same place.
Maybe buy the warehouses across the road and encompass that land into a stadium complex.
Maybe buy the warehouses across the road and encompass that land into a stadium complex.
A bit of a childish reply really - which is hardly a suprise seeing your other posts.
Do you even know what you are talking about? You realise in the real world thats not how things work?
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@AFC NimbleThumb from OneFootball / CaughtOffside.
Im sure there was a Ben Jacobs tweet along these lines too. I specifically remember somebody stating that INEOS were happy/planned to match Jassims pledge to invest in OT and surrounding area but did not see it as necessary to mention it during the bidding rounds.
I know you struggle with reading and comprehension so I’ve highlighted the key parts for you.
That architect suggesting it would be cheaper to spend £2B on a new stadium within the land owned by United rather than upgrading OT.
Guess he knows more than I do, but it doesn’t sound right
Guess he knows more than I do, but it doesn’t sound right
I guess it's one of those head versus heart decisions. No "right" or "wrong" answer, just differences of opinion. I hate the idea of United not playing in OT anymore but at the same time I'd love United to have a modern state of the art stadium.
If a brand new stadium could be built on the site of the current OT, and the name retained, that would be the best of both worlds.
Out of interest, where would we play if OT was knocked down, the council house?
If a brand new stadium could be built on the site of the current OT, and the name retained, that would be the best of both worlds.
Out of interest, where would we play if OT was knocked down, the council house?
Bloody hell, that report on the old lady is even worse than I imagined, even as someone who has been there recently I never noticed how bad it was.
I think it will. INEOS signs will be everywhere, but I think Ratcliffe knows how to play this.
A revamp just puts back 10 years on the inevitable
Just bite the bullet spend 2 billion on a new stadium, saddens me we have wasted half that amount of poor recruitment the last 10 years!
Just bite the bullet spend 2 billion on a new stadium, saddens me we have wasted half that amount of poor recruitment the last 10 years!
If that quote from the CEO of Populous is correct then from a financial point of view it seems a new ground and facilities would be more cost effective in the long run.
I would rather something like what Real has done to the Bernabeau, looks amazing but I think if you’re looking at spending 800mill now on a renovation that’s taking 8 years? that 800 becomes 1-1.3 billion easily. Get a new stadium built on land we own now around the ground, still take a healthy match day revenue until the new build is complete and I think United has that unique opportunity to something really different and groundbreaking with the land around Old Trafford.
I would rather something like what Real has done to the Bernabeau, looks amazing but I think if you’re looking at spending 800mill now on a renovation that’s taking 8 years? that 800 becomes 1-1.3 billion easily. Get a new stadium built on land we own now around the ground, still take a healthy match day revenue until the new build is complete and I think United has that unique opportunity to something really different and groundbreaking with the land around Old Trafford.
What capacity would they go for with a new stadium? Biggest in Europe?
I’ve changed my vote. Perhaps it is time to see OT join the likes of legendary grounds such as Highbury and pass into history. OT would always remain part of the magnificent story of our club and I’m sure the people in charge would ensure the history and foundations (and perhaps construction) of the new stadium would respect and reflect Old Trafford in some part. I fully expect there to be a Bobby Charlton and Alex Ferguson stand and perhaps a new Matt Busby one too (obvs MBW is still outside).
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Personally, I have learned to not trust architects this much since the late Zaha Hadid came up with that weird weird for the new Tokyo Olympic Stadium and then had to see her project binned after only one year because of rising costs. The design by Kengo Kuma that came later is great with a reduced environmental impact, a design built with modular pieces of timber that can be replaced when the timber deteriorates, and no encroachment with the nearby green spaces.
My point is that you have to be very mindful of what an architect wants because his/her desired designs might well be something that does not match what most people can absorb. And besides, the football fan in me has seen how many old stadiums can find ways to stay where they are with timely revamps. Real Madrid ain't leaving the Bernabeu anytime soon, idem for Barcelona with the Nou Camp, idem for Borussia Dortmund with the Westfalenstadion (now called Signal Iduna Park), and lastly you can forget Liverpool leaving Anfield for at least 30 years.
As for Old Trafford, I already made my feelings clear about it. Revamp is the way forward.
Coincidence or not, Arsenal lost its identity completely after they left Highbury. The last thing United needs is to endure the same when there actually ARE ways to revamp the existing structure.
Before anyone gets started on the fact that the railway track is a problem for any revamp of Old Trafford, know the following: 1) the Bernabeu was revamped with an active metro line running right underneath it, 2) the Johan Cruyff Arena was built right over a boulevard (Burgemeester Stramanweg) where cars are still running today, 3) the Vicente Calderón's main stand was built over the M-30 motorway in Madrid, 4) the old Lansdowne Road Stadium in Dublin had a public transit railway running underneath a stand for several years, and so on.
. . .
Moving on.
With sources like Caughtoffside, ‘Im sure there was a Ben Jacobs tweet along these lines’ & ‘I specifically remember somebody stating’ I won’t be hanging bunting on the new stadium just yet.
For what it’s worth I think we will get a new/renovated stadium, however it will be funded via a loan per most good business practice. If you think SjR will be spending £2bil out of his/Ineos’ pockets [insert personal insult here].
You’ve been told to jog on multiple times by myself, yet continued to interact. Do better.
Odd way of quoting me, fella, but fair enough.
Ratcliffe had a Put Call option to buy the club in 3 years. Anyone who disagrees knows nothing.
Are you really that naive?A bit of a childish reply really - which is hardly a suprise seeing your other posts.
Do you even know what you are talking about? You realise in the real world thats not how things work?
A call option is a contract between a buyer and a seller to purchase a certain stock at a certain price up until a defined expiration date. The buyer of a call has the right, not the obligation, to exercise the call and purchase the stocks.Ratcliffe had a Put Call option to buy the club in 3 years. Anyone who disagrees knows nothing.
Did you read the part of my post where I said I believe more investment is coming or have you just heard the term Call Option for the first time in the last 72 hours & started throwing it into conversations?
Where did I disagree with the Call Option? That’s right I didn’t but we’d yourself to an SjR narrative that means any questioning of this deal means you throw around terms that aren’t being discussed & you’ve only just grasped over Christmas dinner.
I suspect that's the option they'll go for if bringing the stadium up to date and expanding it will cost less than half of a new build.
It's such a pity that buildings cannot be rewired and new mains supplies ran in. Seen it a thousand times where we've had to tell people, ''Sorry mate/love your wirings past it's use by date and not up to scratch so you'll just have to get your house demolished and build a new one.''
They clearly are putting pressure on United to build a new stadium. I don't see the issue with knocking OT down stand by stand and rebuilding it.
I've done two now, helped my brother with his Victorian renovation which took 2 years, complete gutting. And I've nearly finished my own house which is from the 50's also about 2 years. I also regularly work on Victorian renovations for a living, and to be honest they're an absolute ball ache, they take longer than everyone estimates and they cost more than people imagine.
But in the end when done right they're infinitely better than the vast majority of new builds I've seen.
Question is why though?
If they were knocking OT down stand by stand they may as well move it away from the tracks while they are at it. But once you get to that stage it wouldn't be the same stadium so you might as well just move somewhere else with better infrastructure around the stadium and no railroads/freight terminal adjacent.
Just adds a physical representation to the fallen empire narrative they know sells stories.
True they've been dining out on that one for years now, like the other week ''Breaking News! - Small bits of concrete fall from ceiling at Old Trafford''.
I doubt they actually care if Jimbo demolishes OT or not though.
It's not been the same stadium since the early 1900s. Its not the stadium I first watched a game at. We shouldn't stop improvements.
I know building over the train line isn't such an issue these days but isn't part of the problem the houses facing the South stand?
Not just their proximity causing problems but also I'm sure we'd be facing objections from the owners during the planning stage. I doubt many would want that structure to be any bigger than it already is.
Not just their proximity causing problems but also I'm sure we'd be facing objections from the owners during the planning stage. I doubt many would want that structure to be any bigger than it already is.
idle discussion. We cannot afford either option.
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Great contribution, well done.