Indeed, I prefer the option United have taken over the last few decades of regularly renovating, upgrading and expanding the stadium vs knocking it down and rebuilding every 25-30 years.
New Stadium or Revamp Old Trafford
- Thread starter Ian Reus
- Start date
Definitely needs a full rebuild. Stadium is just not up to standard in terms of concourses, seat space, small changing rooms etc
I dread to think what the Glazers would come up with…best to shelf this idea until they have been removed.
Spend a few million to fix the leaks and come back to the topic in a few years.
Spend a few million to fix the leaks and come back to the topic in a few years.
This seems to have been the Glazers approach to every aspect of running the club. Time for this mindset to change.
Israel 2.0The club has all that land. Apart from hotel football.
A lot of people aren't getting this. The point of having the facilities at the club is so that supporters will spend that money there rather than at Moon Under Water, Sinclairs or the Bishop. It's for generating extra income that pays for the stadium and squad.There's a whole bloody city 10 minutes on the tram away ffs
Rebuild to be suggests exactly that, you knock it down and rebuild it. New Stadium suggests new location also.
I understand that, but also realistically if that's the sole reason for the upgrade, you can understand why the owners have decided against it. Simply having bigger concourse space and by extension, more bars within the ground, would provide an incredibly limited additional income that likely wouldn't outweigh the cost of it in their lifetimes. Now, just to be clear, I do understand that isn't the sole reason for the stadium upgrades but I was specifically responding to the point from the previous poster about wanting to sing songs and have a drink pre and post game. There is also the factor that large portions of our support, particularly going back over the past 10-15 years, don't like spending too much money at the stadium due to the perceived "money in owners pockets" approach, which in fairness I tend to support as a general idea but obviously you do sometimes need a drink when inside the ground, so that's another reason why the current owners may not see value in upgrading the concourse and bar facilities specifically.
Have you not noticed that OT has been excluded from the venues for the Euro's ?
FIFA and UEFA have downgraded OT as a venue for all finals and internationals for the very reasons people are describing, you literally have to go there to experience how bad it actually is.
UEFA cited;
Concourses too narrow.
Stairways too steep
Poor disabled access
Poor toilet facilities
Poor seating (angle of the north stand)
Poor viewing for pitchside seating, (you can barely see the far goal because of the crown in the pitch)
Poor refreshments
Inadequate refreshment facilities.
Leaking roof in various areas
That should be enough to warrant a rebuild rather than a plaster and a coat of paint.
FIFA and UEFA have downgraded OT as a venue for all finals and internationals for the very reasons people are describing, you literally have to go there to experience how bad it actually is.
UEFA cited;
Concourses too narrow.
Stairways too steep
Poor disabled access
Poor toilet facilities
Poor seating (angle of the north stand)
Poor viewing for pitchside seating, (you can barely see the far goal because of the crown in the pitch)
Poor refreshments
Inadequate refreshment facilities.
Leaking roof in various areas
That should be enough to warrant a rebuild rather than a plaster and a coat of paint.
No, it's never going to cover the cost alone, but when you consider that when OT was built, it was meant to be in use for 2 hours every other week, and it took about half a century to pay off the mortgage (incidentally, a mortgage that the FA made us take out, as they deemed it being gifted by JH Davies as being against the spirit of fair competition - how times have changed!).
If the club have expanded and improved attractions like bars, restaurants, hotel rooms, shops, museum and tour, that stadium is now a multi-use cultural attraction that could be in use 24 hours a day. Obviously, that doesn't apply to all of those things, but it's an investment worth paying for owners with vision for the future of the club.
Think legroom on seats is not good enough either. People especially lads are getting taller and taller so need better leg space for comfort. Also think more space will make it safer if an emergency occured and a rushed evacuation of the stadium was needed.
I don't dispute any of that, like I said, I was specifically responding to the poster who said he wanted a place to get a drink with his mates pre and post game.
They're also getting fatter - current airplane seats remind me of the old Stretty seats for some reason
Yes. That is also true.They're also getting fatter - current airplane seats remind me of the old Stretty seats for some reason
I'd say the biggest revenue increase would come from making the stadium more suitable for hosting other none-football events.
Spurs regularly host American sports, boxing events and concerts...right?
Spurs regularly host American sports, boxing events and concerts...right?
Well yes, and that’s all been done by expanding a little beyond the original footprint.
I’m not sure how all the nice things people are now suggesting (bigger capacity while at the same time providing bigger concourses, more toilets, more leg- and fat arse-room) can be achieved without a more substantial expansion of the footprint though. And given the constraints of the site (railway, busy freight yard, canal) that isn’t going to be easy…
Like I've said elsewhere, these things aren't really targeting locals with pre-match traditions, they're targeting out of towners, day trippers and people who don't fancy cramming onto an overcrowded metrolink just before kickoff because they wanted to get a pint or two in prior to the game. You can't deny the convenience of it, especially since they ask fans to get to the ground earlier because of security checks.
This is also true. The last time they had concerts at OT (the Rolling Stones) it turned into such a debacle (basically for the same reasons UEFA and FIFA deem the ground unsuitable for international matches), they had to cancel the second set of shows (Pink, I think it was) and they fired the guy who booked them all.
Brand new state of the art stadium it's time to embrace the future, if that's a problem then you have all the old videos of such and such a night at the theatre of dreams if you want to reminisce...
Quite possibly one of the worst takes I’ve read. Rip down statues to our past and calm the stadium NEW Trafford? You’re taking the piss
The ground is deemed suitable for hosting international games. It quite literally hosted a UEFA international qualifier in June.
Major renovations don't have to amount to simply a new coat of paint.
We won't be getting a new stadium under the Glazers/Ratcliffe coalition. So we should maybe stop hoping for that, that ship sailed with the Qatar bid.
Well it couldn't but I think people need to accept with an old stadium you can't have everything. Having said that the footprint can be expanded on 2 sides no problem, the East stand should be possible to an extent as well. So it would just be the south stand they'd have to get creative with.
I've always wondered with the pitch being so high if the seating areas could be raised and give the seats more room that way. Though I'm sure weight would be an issue.
Got a link to this? Or any evidence to show what you're saying is accurate and that Old Trafford isn't deemed fit for internationals by UEFA?
I'm just asking as it seems unlikely given that it hosted a UEFA international in June and the opening game of a UEFA international tournament in June 2022. Oh and the fact that the stadium was shortlisted initially for Euro 2028 but pulled from the list by the club due to stadia availability due to the ongoing review rather than being deemed incapable of holding UEFA international matches - ie Anfield. If the stadium couldn't host such games, it simply wouldn't have been shortlisted originally. Or have held two high profile UEFA international fixtures in the last 18 months.
Widely reported in the press, (Independent, Times, MEN, Talksport) as far back as April this year.
UEFA said that it (Old Trafford) does not comply with all of it's requirements.
United claimed they pulled out of the application as Old Trafford may be subject to renovations at the time of the Euro's
It was also reported as far back as 2019 as questionable by FIFA
https://www.mirror.co.uk/sport/football/news/man-utd-could-miss-out-20541537
Having been to Old Trafford quite a few times in the last decade, I feel there’s a certain energy with the place that is irreplaceable. I think we can do what Madrid did and modernise Old Trafford. There’s character and history at Old Trafford that brings awe to anyone coming to our club. It’s a major selling point to players believe it or not.
A state of the art Old Trafford would be magical!
A state of the art Old Trafford would be magical!
I'm talking about events like the Euros finals and the CL final. We've not been in contention for those for a while.
I'm glad someone else read the same reports
Where did UEFA say that? Have you got anything from UEFA saying that Old Trafford doesn't comply with it's requirements? I'm presuming the list you previously gave comes from somewhere. Because if so I'm confused how Old Trafford was allowed to host two high profile UEFA internationals in the last 18 months, including the opening game of a UEFA tournament. It was reported in April that United pulled Old Trafford from the shortlist because the availability of the stadium could not be guaranteed due to the ongoing review around regeneration of the stadium, which is entirely reasonable given that it had been publicly stated that they were looking into all options regarding renovating and even rebuilding the stadium.
The article you have linked relates to supposed FIFA concerns, which would be irrelevant for a UEFA competition, and highlights the press box, mixed zone and media lounge being too small, which the club say would be easily fixed with a reconfiguration of space which in fairness is correct. The second issue highlighted is not being able to accommodate the required number of broadcast cameras and the third issue highlighted is that the away dressing room is too small, which again are pretty simple reconfigurations for a club of United's size, that would be accomplished in no time at all between a season ending and a tournament beginning.
If you genuinely believe that Old Trafford would be rejected due to the concourses being "too narrow" (which I do actually agree in some parts of the ground they are by the way) and the stairways being "too steep", I can only assume you have never been to St James Park. Similarly around "poor seating" and "poor viewing for pitchside seating", I can assume you haven't been to Hampden Park. And that's without even mentioning Villa Park which is in a comically bad state of repair. It was withdrawn, if it wasn't withdrawn it would 100% have been selected as one of the ten stadiums for the tournament.
The Euro's finals? Such as what? Euro 2020? Only Wembley went forward from England and it was one stadium per national. Euro 2022? Old Trafford hosted the opening match of the tournament. Euro 2028? Pulled from bid as above. Champions League finals, I don't know, have they even put in for it? How many club stadiums (that weren't built for other purposes ala Atletico and Hertha Berlin) have been used over the past decade or so? The San Siro was given it in 2015 and that is in a far worse state of repair than Old Trafford. The national football associates put the bids in, why would the FA put any stadium forward other than Wembley to host a major final?
There's no dispute that major money needs spending on the stadium to bring it into line with certain 2023 requirements, but there is also a significant exaggeration of certain issues because it suits certain agendas, which I understand.
People keep saying this and I just can't see how the Bernabeu has retained any of its character. It's technically a renovation but is so comprehensive it doesn't seem like the same place.
I remember going to games at the old Wembley Stadium and I don't miss it in the slightest.
New doesn't have to mean soulless. It just needs to make references to the past and have some new character. While we all cherish memories of Old Trafford in its various 90's/2000's configurations there is massive opportunities for us to create a more intimidating arena that actually improves things on the football side too.
I have to admit that I haven't been to Old Trafford since before Covid, but I remember standing on the tram halt at Piccadilly Gardens for near an hour on the first day of an ashes test and not one tram to Old Trafford went past, we ended up getting the metro to Media City and walking from there and had to watch the first over on Sky Go on some blokes phone on the steps to the stand.There's a whole bloody city 10 minutes on the tram away ffs
The cricket ground holds what, 20,000 to 25,000 so I wouldn't fancy getting dropped at the ground about 1pm, getting into Shudehill, having a pint or two and getting back for kick-off
(On the Friday we just got taxis to the ground)
The extra £10 - £20 spent inside the "new ground" will pale into insignificance compared to the extra money from additional corporate lounges etc, and the extra corporate options can help keep the price of tickets for "proper fans" from increasing too much (the prawn sandwich brigade enjoy the atmosphere but don't contribute towards it, so a raucous terrace will "enhance their matchday experience"
The Stones concert was a moderate success, it was a Billy Joel concert soon after that caused issues, I recall he was booked at the behest of someone senior at the club who clearly doesn't understand the industry, a stadium like Old Trafford doesn't lend itself to a load of middle aged smooth fm fans, the complaints and bad TripAdvisor reviews were vast, the revenue generated wasn't. Have to say, City and the LCC cricket ground do a much better job.
How about both? Build a new stadium just behind the existing one on the land owned by the club whilst keeping the original stadium and using it as a museum, hotel, exhibition centre, concert venue etc. You could have a 3pm kick off in one venue followed by a gig in the other, or a women's game followed by a mens game. This way we wouldn't have to play in another stadium whilst a new one is built.
I'm really not mate, just my opinion, which you are fully entitled to disagree with.
Fair enough - I've never had an issue getting a tram from town to Old Trafford so can't really relate. I tend to go Altrincham into town and back out on a matchday.
On the extra spend - fully aware and was responding specifically to the poster talking about getting a couple of extra beers at the game. I thought I had been clear enough about that in the majority of my previous posts but apparently not.
Not entirely sure what the difference is between "rebuilding Old Trafford" and "building a new Stadium". You can't revamp what we've already got in to something modern and decent. It would surely cost more and take longer to do that, and end up crap anyway.
Personally I'd go for the same location but new stadium. The good thing about Spurs is the size of the concourses and the speed of the beer serving. The acoustics in there are decent too, unlike OT.
The downside is that it will likely be soulless like every other modern building in Manchester.
Personally I'd go for the same location but new stadium. The good thing about Spurs is the size of the concourses and the speed of the beer serving. The acoustics in there are decent too, unlike OT.
The downside is that it will likely be soulless like every other modern building in Manchester.
There's no technically about it, it's the same building that's been upgraded and modernised. We could do the similar to Old Trafford.
It’s only “soulless” because theres no memories or history there.
But in time there will be. Look at all the teams around us, they’re slowly building new stadiums, state of the art and best in class.
We’re going to get put further and further behind as a club and that’s just not it.
We need to build a brand new state of the art stadium and move away from the sentimentality that we have. I mean Everton will have a better stadium than us for christ sakes. It looks like it will be an incredible stadium!
We need that. We need a bigger better stadium than everyone else & we’re in danger of falling even further behind if we don’t move on from the past. It’s likely to be an unpopular opinion but if other teams can move on from iconic stadiums like White Heart Lane, Upton Park, Highbury, eventually Goodison & The Old Wembly, then so can we.
The majority of what they listed can only really be addressed by a new build
Where is New Trafford mate? And why would we build a stadium there?