Newcastle are what City were - thought exercise

SER19

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Newcastle are currently lingering near bottom after countless years in the footballing wilderness, at least in terms of success. They're struggling against third tier opponents.

It is quite possible, some would say likely, that over the next decade Newcastle will rise to relevance and possibly compete in the champions league or even win a title. In doing so, they will leapfrog clubs like west ham and Leicester and likely make clubs like arsenal, spurs and dare i say it, possibly even us, less and less likely to compete.

Simply put - their utter embarrassment today, their lowly position and their global irrelevance does not matter. They are about to buy it.

People like to pretend that without clubs backed by dodgy countries, clubs like United and barca would be just winning constantly, never threatened. But, just look at United and barca now. Look at any of the big Italian clubs at one point or another. Big clubs all fall naturally. Leaving space for another.

Without city and chelsea, Tottenham Liverpool and Leicester might have 1 or more titles in recent years. Without psg plenty of french clubs would.

My point is that Newcastle today are what City once were and yet they can still try to argue with a straight face that they are anything more than a plastic toy, who bought relevance and that there is a jot of true sporting merit to their ascendancy. Or that they havent inflated the markets and accelerated the soul destroying of the sport. (Uniteds corporate side do this too) That they somehow played a role in upsetting the status quo, despite every big club for one reason or another naturally going through highs and lows.

These clubs are simply unnatural, non sporting and, when you look and newscastle today and then imagine the next decade goes as they plan, it is clear they are ruining the game.

They're essentially fake clubs, using former clubs names and brands, to make money and propaganda for murky countries. Nothing more
 

horsechoker

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The thing is with City, they've got most of the big decisions right and I think their rags to riches (no pun intended) success happened in the minimum amount of time it could realistically happen in.

Newcastle have the money but will they have the brains? United post Fergie are an example of money but no brains.
 

The Firestarter

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The thing is with City, they've got most of the big decisions right and I think their rags to riches (no pun intended) success happened in the minimum amount of time it could realistically happen in.

Newcastle have the money but will they have the brains? United post Fergie are an example of money but no brains.
Precisely, the first thing city did was appoint football experts and trust them to create a long term strategy. Not investment bankers who thought "how hard can this footy stuff be really"
 

SER19

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The thing is with City, they've got most of the big decisions right and I think their rags to riches (no pun intended) success happened in the minimum amount of time it could realistically happen in.

Newcastle have the money but will they have the brains? United post Fergie are an example of money but no brains.
Yes they have and City fans often seem to draw on this versus Uniteds failings as some sort of evidence of well earned success. But pumping billions into a team and hiring elite people to oversee it on behalf of a country SHOULD lead to success. Uniteds failing to compete once city went into over drive is the anomaly.

Chelsea too had bought some titles and a CL within a decade of Abramovich.
 

Dirty Schwein

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Newcastle are currently lingering near bottom after countless years in the footballing wilderness, at least in terms of success. They're struggling against third tier opponents.

It is quite possible, some would say likely, that over the next decade Newcastle will rise to relevance and possibly compete in the champions league or even win a title. In doing so, they will leapfrog clubs like west ham and Leicester and likely make clubs like arsenal, spurs and dare i say it, possibly even us, less and less likely to compete.

Simply put - their utter embarrassment today, their lowly position and their global irrelevance does not matter. They are about to buy it.

People like to pretend that without clubs backed by dodgy countries, clubs like United and barca would be just winning constantly, never threatened. But, just look at United and barca now. Look at any of the big Italian clubs at one point or another. Big clubs all fall naturally. Leaving space for another.

Without city and chelsea, Tottenham Liverpool and Leicester might have 1 or more titles in recent years. Without psg plenty of french clubs would.

My point is that Newcastle today are what City once were and yet they can still try to argue with a straight face that they are anything more than a plastic toy, who bought relevance and that there is a jot of true sporting merit to their ascendancy. Or that they havent inflated the markets and accelerated the soul destroying of the sport. (Uniteds corporate side do this too) That they somehow played a role in upsetting the status quo, despite every big club for one reason or another naturally going through highs and lows.

These clubs are simply unnatural, non sporting and, when you look and newscastle today and then imagine the next decade goes as they plan, it is clear they are ruining the game.

They're essentially fake clubs, using former clubs names and brands, to make money and propaganda for murky countries. Nothing more
If they were in the league alone, they'd still bottle it.
 

GlasgowCeltic

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Players and young fans don't care about this, which is all that matters really
 

SER19

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Players and young fans don't care about this, which is all that matters really
Seemingly neither do old fans. Plenty of adult Newcastle fans in Saudi garb and plenty of city fans prepared to go down fighting for their owners and celebrate their shiny toys.

But you're right, nothing else matters, which kind of proves my point. These teams killed football as it was. Finished it off at least
 

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The big issue for Newcastle is what happens if they get relegated. Granted, their new owners are no Venky's, but FFP still seems to be a thing in lower leagues, and they might well find it difficult to buy their way out of it. If it wasn't for Watford, they would almost certainly be down already, so I don't think the two clubs' situations are that comparable.
 

SER19

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Clubs winning the lottery is nothing new these days surely
No, but i called it a thought exercise as people seem to forget through the years how transparent city's buying of English football has been. You can put a figure on it as plainly as you could should Newcastle do it from here. It's a very depressing thought and isn't 'sport' at all
 

Rob

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I must admit I find it somewhat depressing that in 5 years time, every league title will be won by either Abu Dhabi or Saudi Arabia.
 

Wednesday at Stoke

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The thing is with City, they've got most of the big decisions right and I think their rags to riches (no pun intended) success happened in the minimum amount of time it could realistically happen in.

Newcastle have the money but will they have the brains? United post Fergie are an example of money but no brains.
Newcastle have begun far better than City did when they got money. City spent like drunken sailors on clowns like Jo, Robinho, Adebayor, Santa Cruz, Barry, Lescott etc. They got their act together once they hired Mancini and then Txiki Begristain in 2012.

Newcastle on the other hand seem to be operating a lot more sensibly and they hired the football guy from Brighton, who is highly rated and was behind English FA's grassroots program as well.
 

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It was two years into Abramovich's ownership that Chelsea won the league. Helped of course by the money and Mourinho, but Ranieri did much of the hard work putting that squad together.

City needed four years under their ownership, three just to qualify for the Champions League.

The squads that Abramovich and Abu Dhabi had when they bought their clubs were in a far better state than the Saudis at Newcastle. They'll need to buy players to solidify their position in the league, never mind in the European spots.
 

Sandikan

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Every money club that enters the landscape has more rivals than they did before.

Newcastle will be competing with the City/Chelsea oil teams, us with our huge resources, then Liverpool with their top management in the short term.
That's a lot of rivals to start out with.

It took City a while to properly get going and Newcastle will have to buy the Trippier type players on 150k a week for now.

I wouldn't be surprised to see them still go down even with a raft of high wage signings.
 

Guy Incognito

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The big issue for Newcastle is what happens if they get relegated. Granted, their new owners are no Venky's, but FFP still seems to be a thing in lower leagues, and they might well find it difficult to buy their way out of it. If it wasn't for Watford, they would almost certainly be down already, so I don't think the two clubs' situations are that comparable.
They bought Newcastle and want to invest in the city as much as the football club. They are going nowhere.

Just look at what Abu Dhabi have done with Manchester city council.
 

KingCavani

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The thing is with City, they've got most of the big decisions right
Well that's not true. For large periods City were spending like someone throwing shit at the wall to see what sticks.

They spent more efficiently than us but that's really not saying much.
 

KingCavani

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It took City a while to properly get going and Newcastle will have to buy the Trippier type players on 150k a week for now.
This is true although eventually they'll get there. It didn't help that United let City build a squad almost unopposed.
 

Vidyoyo

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They bought Newcastle and want to invest in the city as much as the football club. They are going nowhere.

Just look at what Abu Dhabi have done with Manchester city council.
I was going to mention this. The complicity by the government is half the problem. Unfortunately I think they rather like private businesses footing the bill for community projects.
 

El Zoido

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The thing is with City, they've got most of the big decisions right and I think their rags to riches (no pun intended) success happened in the minimum amount of time it could realistically happen in.

Newcastle have the money but will they have the brains? United post Fergie are an example of money but no brains.
It’s more than just outlay on squad personnel. Looking at just money spent on players misses the point. City have spent tens of billions behind the scenes, building the correct infrastructure, buying other clubs around the world, social media, promotion, staff, etc. It’s endless. Whatever you think they’ve spent, double it. Triple it. Hell, quadruple it. Few people will know the real figure. It’s an enormous operation which they’ve executed spectacularly well, as much as I hate to admit it. Building a successful club is far more than just buying players for your team, you need to establish deep foundations in every facet of the project.

We’ve spent a lot on players at the expense of literally everything else. We’ve been left in the dust in this regard.
 

SER19

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I wasn't suggesting they'll abandon the project, just that they might find themselves in the 'wrong' league for an extended period of time.
That would be great. But they'll come right back up I expect. Lots of teams do now, let alone one with their resources. Would probably get a manager that's above championship level too. Maybe even follow city's lead and give him a dodgy inflated contract
 

RUCK4444

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Newcastle are currently lingering near bottom after countless years in the footballing wilderness, at least in terms of success. They're struggling against third tier opponents.

It is quite possible, some would say likely, that over the next decade Newcastle will rise to relevance and possibly compete in the champions league or even win a title. In doing so, they will leapfrog clubs like west ham and Leicester and likely make clubs like arsenal, spurs and dare i say it, possibly even us, less and less likely to compete.

Simply put - their utter embarrassment today, their lowly position and their global irrelevance does not matter. They are about to buy it.

People like to pretend that without clubs backed by dodgy countries, clubs like United and barca would be just winning constantly, never threatened. But, just look at United and barca now. Look at any of the big Italian clubs at one point or another. Big clubs all fall naturally. Leaving space for another.

Without city and chelsea, Tottenham Liverpool and Leicester might have 1 or more titles in recent years. Without psg plenty of french clubs would.

My point is that Newcastle today are what City once were and yet they can still try to argue with a straight face that they are anything more than a plastic toy, who bought relevance and that there is a jot of true sporting merit to their ascendancy. Or that they havent inflated the markets and accelerated the soul destroying of the sport. (Uniteds corporate side do this too) That they somehow played a role in upsetting the status quo, despite every big club for one reason or another naturally going through highs and lows.

These clubs are simply unnatural, non sporting and, when you look and newscastle today and then imagine the next decade goes as they plan, it is clear they are ruining the game.

They're essentially fake clubs, using former clubs names and brands, to make money and propaganda for murky countries. Nothing more
Yeah absolutely, totally agree.

It’s just nothing teams buying success and ruining the game. The sport has no soul, it’s why it’s becoming less and less appealing.
 

Bole Top

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honestly, I don't mind them. let's not pretend everything was fine with European football before Newcastle and City were bought. you have 2 or 3 richest countries and their biggest cities and only those clubs are winning stuff and feeding on the rest of the world. they buy the best talent, take the best coaches etc. if you were fine with that before, nothing really changes except now you have another club that all those selling clubs can sell players to. "soul" :lol:
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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City don’t just have the money, they have football men behind nearly all footballing matters. Unless Newcastle can get the same their is no guarantee they will be another City.
 

Wolf1992

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Yeah absolutely, totally agree.

It’s just nothing teams buying success and ruining the game. The sport has no soul, it’s why it’s becoming less and less appealing.
The sport was ruined after Bosman ruling, it destroyed dutch and portuguese leagues, plus teams like Steaua Bucharest,Olympique Marseille,Red Star Belgrade,etc.

Even if Abu Dhabi buys City, they wouldn't be winning 4 leagues in 5 years with 8 english player and only 3 foreigners in their starter XI.
The fact that they can field 2 brazilians,1 belgian,1 portuguese,1 german,2 spanish, etc it's what makes the massive difference IF you have the money.
 

SER19

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honestly, I don't mind them. let's not pretend everything was fine with European football before Newcastle and City were bought. you have 2 or 3 richest countries and their biggest cities and only those clubs are winning stuff and feeding on the rest of the world. they buy the best talent, take the best coaches etc. if you were fine with that before, nothing really changes except now you have another club that all those selling clubs can sell players to. "soul" :lol:
Except serie a had 5 different winners in the decade pre 2010, la liga had 4, and there were 8 different cl winners.

Since oil clubs became the norm there has been less diversity among titles.

Not to mention that in recent years Barcelona, United, AC Milan, Inter Milan, Juventus, Liverpool and many more of the status quo have been nowhere near success at one point or another.

Nice trotting out of a very weak PR line from the oil clubs though, and setting up of a straw man that anybody said football was fine. Incredibly weak post
 

Wolf1992

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honestly, I don't mind them. let's not pretend everything was fine with European football before Newcastle and City were bought. you have 2 or 3 richest countries and their biggest cities and only those clubs are winning stuff and feeding on the rest of the world. they buy the best talent, take the best coaches etc. if you were fine with that before, nothing really changes except now you have another club that all those selling clubs can sell players to. "soul" :lol:
The Bosman ruling boosted the money gap.

Pep's City wouldn't win 4 leagues in 5 years if they could only field 3 foreigners, but now they can field 2 brazilians,1 belgian, 1 portuguese, 2 spanish,etc...and given the money they have, they will get the best.
 
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SportingCP96

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honestly, I don't mind them. let's not pretend everything was fine with European football before Newcastle and City were bought. you have 2 or 3 richest countries and their biggest cities and only those clubs are winning stuff and feeding on the rest of the world. they buy the best talent, take the best coaches etc. if you were fine with that before, nothing really changes except now you have another club that all those selling clubs can sell players to. "soul" :lol:
Not really. The difference between now and then is that you won’t ever ever see a “smaller club” financial wise like Porto winning the Champions league like they did in 04 against another smaller club Monaco in the final.

Instead you have what used to be bottom feeder clubs backed by oil money in spots where traditional big clubs of decades past belong like Ajax PSV , the Portuguese , Celtic , Rangers etc. you get the point.

PSG, City, Newcastle, and their will be more like them will be the death of relevance for those other clubs mentioned.
 

SportingCP96

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City don’t just have the money, they have football men behind nearly all footballing matters. Unless Newcastle can get the same their is no guarantee they will be another City.
With the amount of money they have they will eventually get it. It’s not a IF they do it’s a When.

In the future, when I don’t know, Newcastle will take one of those top 4 spots from anybody not named City and stay their for the foreseeable future along with winning multiple titles.
 

LilyWhiteSpur

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With the amount of money they have they will eventually get it. It’s not a IF they do it’s a When.

In the future, when I don’t know, Newcastle will take one of those top 4 spots from anybody not named City and stay their for the foreseeable future along with winning multiple titles.
Cant agree, it’s not just a money game, look at Everton as a prime example. Nearly £600M in the last 5 years and if anything are just going backwards. Unless they make the right choices nothing is guaranteed. You could also give the example of United but I didn’t wanna get pelters:wenger:
 

BlueHaze

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But this is simply modern football for you and you can be prepared to see more of this in the near future. Modern day football is just greed, corruption and absolutely disgusting amounts of money being thrown around, players who cry about anything and are spoilt rank rotten.

I mean £300m on a human being?

Winter World Cup in Qatar? :lol:

This is why many people including myself don't really give a shit about the sport anymore and why our passion for it is long gone. Of course I still follow United regularly but tbh I'm not sure how long it will last.

Modern day football is a poisoned chalice. It actually makes me sick.
 

b20times

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We've got money men at the club. The money might not always flow in the direction we want but when it does we can spend millions on transfers, agents and wages.
 

McGrathsipan

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What's the difference between Newcastle spending a billion or United slinging a billion on the modern day mercenary player ? (Ownership debate aside)

Anything United get will also be bought because that's how its done.

The players don't give a fucck about the "club" or badge. They are employees maximising earnings. They might like the company they work for but behind it all most of the players in the PL are there for money. The light sprinkling of local lads at their boyhood teams is just propaganda anyway.

Are we just miffed because the other organisations got their shit together and have money now one way or another?
 

McGrathsipan

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With the amount of money they have they will eventually get it. It’s not a IF they do it’s a When.

In the future, when I don’t know, Newcastle will take one of those top 4 spots from anybody not named City and stay their for the foreseeable future along with winning multiple titles.
They won't.
They might compete but they are one of many teams with spending power now...not the only one. They will still only get the players that City etc don't want
 

UpWithRivers

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The main issue is being missed. Yes its disgusting rich countries are influencing and buying out the league but whats worse is who these rich countries are. Its one thing selling out to an American Billionaire which is bad enough. Heck being bought out by Amazon who have disgusting practices is bad but the fkn Saudies! Are there no morals left? Is there no stance on right and wrong? Who's next Kim Jong un? And you might think Im being hysterical but I guarantee if he wanted to buy a club the supporters would be all for it. Its fkn ridiculous and not just for football but the country as a whole. They already buy out most of the property in London etc, they buy out the businesses and now football. How much influence are we under from a fundamentalist Islamist dictatorship. We fought two world wars and now the Germans are the ones with the morals. You couldnt make it up.
 

Thunderhead

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Not really. The difference between now and then is that you won’t ever ever see a “smaller club” financial wise like Porto winning the Champions league like they did in 04 against another smaller club Monaco in the final.

Instead you have what used to be bottom feeder clubs backed by oil money in spots where traditional big clubs of decades past belong like Ajax PSV , the Portuguese , Celtic , Rangers etc. you get the point.

PSG, City, Newcastle, and their will be more like them will be the death of relevance for those other clubs mentioned.
That's the power of the PL and UEFA co-efficient, City, PSG or Newcastle haven't caused this, this fits back to your so called historic clubs wanting to get richer and feck the rest attitude
 

BlueHaze

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The main issue is being missed. Yes its disgusting rich countries are influencing and buying out the league but whats worse is who these rich countries are. Its one thing selling out to an American Billionaire which is bad enough. Heck being bought out by Amazon who have disgusting practices is bad but the fkn Saudies! Are there no morals left? Is there no stance on right and wrong? Who's next Kim Jong un? And you might think Im being hysterical but I guarantee if he wanted to buy a club the supporters would be all for it. Its fkn ridiculous and not just for football but the country as a whole. They already buy out most of the property in London etc, they buy out the businesses and now football. How much influence are we under from a fundamentalist Islamist dictatorship. We fought two world wars and now the Germans are the ones with the morals. You couldnt make it up.
I'd wager in a decade most clubs will be owned by saudis, qataris and other oil princes.
 

The Plump Poet

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Newcastle are currently lingering near bottom after countless years in the footballing wilderness, at least in terms of success. They're struggling against third tier opponents.

It is quite possible, some would say likely, that over the next decade Newcastle will rise to relevance and possibly compete in the champions league or even win a title. In doing so, they will leapfrog clubs like west ham and Leicester and likely make clubs like arsenal, spurs and dare i say it, possibly even us, less and less likely to compete.

Simply put - their utter embarrassment today, their lowly position and their global irrelevance does not matter. They are about to buy it.

People like to pretend that without clubs backed by dodgy countries, clubs like United and barca would be just winning constantly, never threatened. But, just look at United and barca now. Look at any of the big Italian clubs at one point or another. Big clubs all fall naturally. Leaving space for another.

Without city and chelsea, Tottenham Liverpool and Leicester might have 1 or more titles in recent years. Without psg plenty of french clubs would.

My point is that Newcastle today are what City once were and yet they can still try to argue with a straight face that they are anything more than a plastic toy, who bought relevance and that there is a jot of true sporting merit to their ascendancy. Or that they havent inflated the markets and accelerated the soul destroying of the sport. (Uniteds corporate side do this too) That they somehow played a role in upsetting the status quo, despite every big club for one reason or another naturally going through highs and lows.

These clubs are simply unnatural, non sporting and, when you look and newscastle today and then imagine the next decade goes as they plan, it is clear they are ruining the game.

They're essentially fake clubs, using former clubs names and brands, to make money and propaganda for murky countries. Nothing more
I'd argue Man United, Liverpool and any club whose majority of money comes from foreign fanbases who ignore their own domestic leagues/grassroots football are exactly the same. You have no leg to stand on. Stop whining.