next labour leader

jeff_goldblum

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What has Corbyn actually suggested to remedy this problem, in terms of specifics?

I'd have thought it a far better use of government spending than ideologically driven renationalisation projects, for instance.
Renationalisation would be a response to us having the most expensive train-fares in Europe and ridiculously high energy bills. Nationalisation is only ideological when you're talking about renationalising things that work better when privatised. Privatised utilities and transport infrastructure doesn't work, which is why it's overwhelmingly popular to bring them back into public hands. On the trains specifically, even 42% of Tory voters were in favour of renationalisation. If we're talking ideological, let's talk about the Tories who took publically owned, profitable East Coast Rail, which had the highest consumer satisfaction rates in the country if I remember correctly, and sold it to Virgin.

edit - sorry I forgot to answer the first bit of this, will find a link

Jg... Thanks for the economics lesson and business advice but with all due respect I think I understand the macroeconomic drivers of my business and individual financial implications for myself a little better than you do.
Quoting a journalist such as Robert Peston and indeed alluding the Fed qe is a direct comparable to the potential "people's qe" is either disingenuous or naive and frankly it's of irrelevance to myself which it is.
I'd just point out as well I was not a UK resident in 2010 so yes I didn't leave the UK you are at least right about that
Sorry if I came off as condescending, I didn't mean to. My response was because the only immediate thing you mentioned being worried about is inflation, which is why I spoke on that subject.

Whatever one's feelings on Corbyn, it's inaccurate to imply that inflation will inevitably be affected any more by Corbyn's QE than it was by Brown's (or indeed, Cameron's). The comparison to the American QE isn't a direct one but, as you'll know, the mechanism by which the printing of money occurs and its effects on investment remain unchanged regardless of where the money goes afterwards. As with anything in economics, the issue is with perception rather than anything else. It's true that Corbyn's QE could potentially cause inflation, but the same was true of Brown's QE in 2009 and Cameron's QE circa 2012. The only difference is that, for obvious reasons, banks were far less likely to raise a stink about the consequences of printing money when it was being printed to go straight into their pockets.

Would you honestly consider leaving the UK if your taxes went to 50% though? Even Kendall wanted to bring in a 50% tax at least until the deficit was cut down. Given that there are polls which suggest that a majority of the public are supportive of a 75% top rate of tax, 50% from a 'hard-left' candidate seems incredibly fair. Having said that, I do have some sympathy with folks like yourselves who've worked to build small businesses and end up paying the same (or less, in practice) tax as those who are earning in the hundreds of thousands or millions. Personally when you get to that level I think most voters would have no problem whatsoever with a 55% - 60% rate, which is turn could mean lower rates for people around the 150,000 mark.
 
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hubbuh

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Jg... Thanks for the economics lesson and business advice but with all due respect I think I understand the macroeconomic drivers of my business and individual financial implications for myself a little better than you do.
Quoting a journalist such as Robert Peston and indeed alluding the Fed qe is a direct comparable to the potential "people's qe" is either disingenuous or naive and frankly it's of irrelevance to myself which it is.
I'd just point out as well I was not a UK resident in 2010 so yes I didn't leave the UK you are at least right about that
It's great that you decided to respond in such a patronising manner rather than address any of the reasonable points put forth. It epitomises the lazy and misplaced assertions from the right (though not exclusive to) that Corbyn is antibusiness.
 

lynchie

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He won't do it but I think the correct response for them would be to remove the whip and tell them they're out on their arses.

They're clearly out of touch with the wishes of the electorate and they're clearly out of touch with the new labour party. They're Labour MPs in name only.
Brilliant idea. That is the perfect way to achieve permanent opposition
 

sun_tzu

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Renationalisation would be a response to us having the most expensive train-fares in Europe and ridiculously high energy bills. Nationalisation is only ideological when you're talking about renationalising things that work better when privatised. Privatised utilities and transport infrastructure doesn't work, which is why it's overwhelmingly popular to bring them back into public hands. On the trains specifically, even 42% of Tory voters were in favour of renationalisation. If we're talking ideological, let's talk about the Tories who took publically owned, profitable East Coast Rail, which had the highest consumer satisfaction rates in the country if I remember correctly, and sold it to Virgin.

edit - sorry I forgot to answer the first bit of this, will find a link



Sorry if I came off as condescending, I didn't mean to. My response was because the only immediate thing you mentioned being worried about is inflation, which is why I spoke on that subject.

Whatever one's feelings on Corbyn, it's inaccurate to imply that inflation will inevitably be affected any more by Corbyn's QE than it was by Brown's (or indeed, Cameron's). The comparison to the American QE isn't a direct one but, as you'll know, the mechanism by which the printing of money occurs and its effects on investment remain unchanged regardless of where the money goes afterwards. As with anything in economics, the issue is with perception rather than anything else. It's true that Corbyn's QE could potentially cause inflation, but the same was true of Brown's QE in 2009 and Cameron's QE circa 2012. The only difference is that, for obvious reasons, banks were far less likely to raise a stink about the consequences of printing money when it was being printed to go straight into their pockets.

Would you honestly consider leaving the UK if your taxes went to 50% though? Even Kendall wanted to bring in a 50% tax at least until the deficit was cut down. Given that there are polls which suggest that a majority of the public are supportive of a 75% top rate of tax, 50% from a 'hard-left' candidate seems incredibly fair. Having said that, I do have some sympathy with folks like yourselves who've worked to build small businesses and end up paying the same (or less, in practice) tax as those who are earning in the hundreds of thousands or millions. Personally when you get to that level I think most voters would have no problem whatsoever with a 55% - 60% rate, which is turn could mean lower rates for people around the 150,000 mark.
All qe is not the same... Where the money goes is important... Though not as important as when the money goes in
Eg you have cut interest rates as far as you can and are still in recession vs a growing a stable economy.
Investing in infrastructure projects has a place... Though when running a deficit would not be the time... Certain according to mark carney who said he could envisage no circumstances where printing money to fund a government spending programme whilst there is a deficit would be a good idea
So in order to do it you have to renationalising the bank of England and force them to... If you think that won't have a massive effect on the interest rates we pay and put even more inflationary pressure into an expanding system that has just had money thrown into it We see that very differently
and given a choice I'm going with carney over Preston
If you introduce 75% tax rates people just pay accountants more to get round it... If not you simply offshore elsewhere and pay your tax there... My company collects millions in tax and I'd happily pay it to whichever government we have to... But the rates I personally pay as an individual and as a business will play a major factor on where we use as a nominal tax base as our clients are based worldwide
 

Ubik

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He won't do it but I think the correct response for them would be to remove the whip and tell them they're out on their arses.

They're clearly out of touch with the wishes of the electorate and they're clearly out of touch with the new labour party. They're Labour MPs in name only.
So you presumably also think that Corbyn and the rest of the Labour left should have had the whip removed when Blair won in 1994, then? And when should they have been allowed back in to form New Old Labour?
 

NinjaFletch

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So you presumably also think that Corbyn and the rest of the Labour left should have had the whip removed when Blair won in 1994, then? And when should they have been allowed back in to form New Old Labour?
I don't have any problem with people who disagree with him, different opinions within a political party are healthy. I imagine there's a lot of uneasy MPs right now, but most of them are getting on with it and respecting the wishes of those who voted Corbyn in.

What I have a problem with is the two self serving twats who have 'resigned' from the shadow cabinet (without actually being on it, presumably, seeing as Corbyn hasn't announced his shadow cabinet yet) as a self publicising protest to a democratically elected leader.

I think its a deeply insulting move to the party members and two fingers to the democratic process.
 

Ubik

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I don't have any problem with people who disagree with him, different opinions within a political party are healthy. I imagine there's a lot of uneasy MPs right now, but most of them are getting on with it and respecting the wishes of those who voted Corbyn in.

What I have a problem with is the two self serving twats who have 'resigned' from the shadow cabinet (without actually being on it, presumably, seeing as Corbyn hasn't announced his shadow cabinet yet) as a self publicising protest to a democratically elected leader.

I think its a deeply insulting move to the party members and two fingers to the democratic process.
I'm not sure what the problem is with removing yourself from consideration beforehand, is it better to wait for a job offer and publicly refuse it? I'd agree that Jamie Reed did it in a douchey way before the speech had even finished, but the new deputy is the guy that stuck the knife into Blair (democratically elected by both the Labour party and the country as a whole, on the promise of serving a full term) and the new leader is the primary Labour rebel of the last few decades, so I don't think they're the best folk to start expelling those who show disloyalty.
 

Ubik

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Umunna quits the shadow cabinet as Corbyn can't say for certain he'll campaign to stay in the EU.
 

SteveJ

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Oh, what a loss to the Shadow Cabinet. Still, I'm sure that Yes Loans could be born again under Umunna's special brand of glib leadership.
 

GloryHunter07

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I just don't think they would make a leadership challenge whilst focused on a campaign and either trying to look united (or having a free hand to campaign in or out I imagine they would leave the party politics till after the referendum)
Fair enough, I expect that if/when the polls start to go south he will be on very thin ice.
 

sun_tzu

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Fair enough, I expect that if/when the polls start to go south he will be on very thin ice.
Certainly with the parliamentary party I think they only need thirty something MP's to trigger another leadership election
Not sure if they would allow £3 voters again or how many of those would become full members
But until the mps have a candidate to unite behind and they believe they can win I don't think they will make a move (unless a big group split or move over to the libs)
 

Ubik

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Is that 8 who have quit now...
Will be interesting to see who he ends up with but for the comedy value I hope Dennis skinner is in there
And please please please let him do a pmq's
At least 11 who were in it previously (excluding Ed) have said they won't serve according to this list - http://www.newstatesman.com/politics/uk/2015/09/whos-jeremy-corbyns-shadow-cabinet

It'll be complete in an hour apparently. Rumours that Burnham's in it (unless the wind blows and he decides not to after all). Just hoping it's Eagle rather than McDonnell as shadow chancellor...
 

sun_tzu

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jeff_goldblum

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BBC reporting that Chuka didn't get an offer. So it's more like he was fired.

edit - can't see another source for that so might not be true.
 

Ubik

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Really hope this is Sun bullshit...

 

GloryHunter07

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Certainly with the parliamentary party I think they only need thirty something MP's to trigger another leadership election
Not sure if they would allow £3 voters again or how many of those would become full members
But until the mps have a candidate to unite behind and they believe they can win I don't think they will make a move (unless a big group split or move over to the libs)
David Milliband in a few years.
 

Shamwow

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The press are going to print whatever they like for a while under the assumption that people will believe whacky old Jez would do anything.
 

Ubik

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Eric Joyce makes everything better

 

Jippy

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Smores

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Does Chukka really think this move is anything but ridiculous, I've not seen such a transparent move since we "decided" not to sign Pedro.

Breaking news, Smores has broken it off with Scarlett Johansson stating her views on Yorkshire Terriers mean the relationship just wouldn't work.
 

2cents

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It's a Minstry for Equality and Religious Minorities I believe. Not a great idea for a place like the UK IMO, and perhaps an attempt on his part to try an quell some recent criticism, but the obvious spin is blatant.
 

Ubik

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It's in the Jewish Chronicle as well, albeit with the caveat 'rumoured to be'. That publication is credible.

http://www.thejc.com/news/uk-news/144832/many-more-questions-now-jeremy-corbyn-labour-leader

What next, special tube carriages for jews? That rings a bell.

EDIT: Talk of 'minister for muslims too'. Hindus feeling left out.

http://www.timesofisrael.com/new-uk...-corbyn-said-to-consider-a-minister-for-jews/
He's on the fence about getting one for agnostics.
 

Ubik

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It's McDonnell. Feck. And a load of white blokes in all the top positions.
 

Ubik

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:lol:I see what you did there.

No shadow chancellor yet? Seems a bit ridiculous.
It's John McDonnell.

Joke's already going around that the females in the cabinet get their own compartment whilst the men discuss the big stuff.
 

jeff_goldblum

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Are people really surprised that we have a socialist Chancellor, given that a socialist candidate just overwhelmingly won the leadership? Angela Eagles might have been a more palatable option to the losing side of the leadership election, but with the mandate he has Corbyn doesn't have to give away that key a position. The centre will get their representation, but it shouldn't expect to sweep the top jobs. Given that the right of the party got roundly trounced they will presumably get the odd member rather than anything substantial (if any of them will accept).

If Cooper and Kendall hadn't ruled themselves out, they'd probably have received 2 of the first calls. I bet Burnham rang Corbyn as soon as he'd managed to source a Jez We Can t-shirt off ebay.
 

Sir Matt

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It's a Minstry for Equality and Religious Minorities I believe. Not a great idea for a place like the UK IMO, and perhaps an attempt on his part to try an quell some recent criticism, but the obvious spin is blatant.
How does that fix anything? Jews and Muslims are both religious minorities and he can't really assuage one without upsetting parts of the other.

It's also a ridiculous idea. Maybe there could be separate ministers for each religion. Can't ignore 175k Jedi or they'll be unrepresented and oppressed.