Clearly, yes. It's the level of selfishness one finds acceptable that is debatable. I think universally that is some level. We are built that way. To look after ourselves and 'our own'. Different people draw the line in different places.
Non-Tory voters, what would it take for you to vote Tory?
- Thread starter rcoobc
- Start date
Why on earth any sane working class person would vote Tory I'm not sure.
The problem is the opposition is so splintered they're going to win the election by a landslide anyway.
The problem is the opposition is so splintered they're going to win the election by a landslide anyway.
I think it's the word "selfish" that's probably at issue, the implication is automatically negative. I think "self-interest" is a better fit myself.
The same people who attack Torry voters for being “selfish” apparently have no problem to urge “non-rich people” to vote for Labour based on the idea that they benefit from this. How on earth is this not selfish as well? Not that there is anything wrong with voting based on personal interest.
But whats more worrying is the lack of understanding of other peoples reasoning. Many voters simply fancy the Torries, because they think they create better outcomes for themselves and society.
I have no problem with people disagreeing (I personally wouldn’t vote for the Torries, if I’d be a Brit), but it is remarkably arrogant to call anyone who disagrees with you either an amoral monster or a dump feckwit. That kind of attitude certainly doesn’t convince anyone to change his mind. Consequently the far left alienates even center-left voters with their moral grandstanding and ideological purity tests.
It is in a way, because at the heart of the Conservative approach these days, the only interest they have in other people is around how cheaply they can be tolerated, or preferably, exploited for more ££££ gain for those who already have plenty / in excess of enough.
But they know they are, which is why so many of them don't admit to their vote. Shy arseholes I think they're called.
You vote Tory to keep more of the money you earn and you vote Labour to get more of the money you don't.
When it comes to the masses self interest will always prevail over ideology, which is probably a good thing.
When it comes to the masses self interest will always prevail over ideology, which is probably a good thing.
@hobbers
Motivation / self interest supposed to stop everything going all stodgy & non-dynamic innit?
Having said that, I don't like how everyone who has the money some other folks might not have, automatically (and ideologically too) earn it & deserve it, quite a miraculous correlation that one, usually quite quickly followed by a belief in the widespread equality of opportunity & extensive social mobility.
That's quite an interesting question (and a bit easier to talk about without going down the 'you're selfish' vs. 'you're fancying being morally & intellectually superior' route
Motivation / self interest supposed to stop everything going all stodgy & non-dynamic innit?
Having said that, I don't like how everyone who has the money some other folks might not have, automatically (and ideologically too) earn it & deserve it, quite a miraculous correlation that one, usually quite quickly followed by a belief in the widespread equality of opportunity & extensive social mobility.
I never would. It would require a completely different Tory party with completely different ideologies.
When the Labour council, the Labour Mayor of London, and the Labour government of the country are harmful to one's locality (its residents) or broader interests.
Of corue the only likely alternative can end up doing the same, which leaves you in somewhat of a bind.
Of corue the only likely alternative can end up doing the same, which leaves you in somewhat of a bind.
At least 4 years of consistent liberal policy, investing in infrastructure, rebuilding workers rights and the public sector, a recognition and strengthening of the social safety net and a complete disassociation from the immigration rhetoric they've indulged in.
In short, they'd have to be a much better Labour for 4 years before I'd consider them.
In short, they'd have to be a much better Labour for 4 years before I'd consider them.