Nordic Ghost Yeti | Haaland at City

Fobal

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Great, great post.

no need for flip flaps or stepovers, these things are far from a concern when Haaland is so poor in so many key dimensions that made greatest strikers ever stand out like below.

-- way inferior to Van Basten, Romario, Benzema, R9, Lewa etc. who could single handedly win a game by themselves at the flick of a switch
-- almost none passing ability
-- quite often the worst player with the lowest ratings by far when he does not score (very often between 5 to 6.5/10 ratings in these games)
-- no link-up play / hold-up play/ dribbling / through pass skills
-- poor ball control
-- does not drop deep to create space
-- zero involvement in the build-up to the extent City players purposefully ignore him to pass when they are building up play because he offers nothing more than a tap in
-- most his goals are in the 6 yard box so a natural tap-in merchant
-- for many, a boring player to watch, zero excitement factor unlike the greatest strikers ever

And, they expect us to be wowed as if we did not see any striker before.
That's quite an extreme bad view of Erling and an unnecessary one to say the least. More when at the back of this view is quite an over the top need to praise Messi while the little fella does not need that at all, he defendes himself pretty well. Heraklion there will always be people that won't like not even extraordinary, or great players, even "genius" ones like Lionel is, so man it's unecessary and at the end of the day even plays against La Pulga.
 

BlueMoonOutcast

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Whatever you think of his football aesthetically, you can't deny his output.

At City alone he has 53 goals in 55 appearances in the Premier league, as well as 17 goals in 17 Champions League appearances.

Aguero is one of the best finishers I've ever seen, and while his numbers are seriously impressive, even he never got near these numbers at City.
 

Gehrman

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Some of the things said about Erling reminds me of that trendy notion of Aguero being a poacher, or a pure striker while he was quite a different player than that, but in his time in City he adapted to a more goalscorer oriented (lazy mofo style) and that created an "idea" of him that wasn't as accurate as it seems of his atributes as a player and his whole carreer, it's funny to see even experts and former players in the forward/strikers role like Schearer or Lineker being quite daft analyzing him too. (I do not think it's necessary, but just in case, I'm not saying these two are similar players, but that sometimes they had face some narrow views about their style and game).

So back to Erling, we should all remind ourselves that we are seeing a version of him that has a lot to do with what he is asked, with how his team plays and that affects his style and variety of goals from him.
This doesn't need to end in a an extreme effort to see extreme set of skills and uniqueness to apreciate him, nor to put him in a comparison to such a different player as Messi is, while in the meantime throwing some shadow to any of them in order to enhance any of the two, at the end of the day, they do not need that at all, they do it in the fecking pitch. Maybe is a late wave from the sea of the silliness and stupidity that provoque the last Ballon D Or stuff...

Erling can be analyzed, apreciate, praised and so on without falling in those comparisons with completely different players.
Some of Aguero's dribbling before City is outstanding. He's only marginally behind Cristiano in total dtibbles completed despite playing at the most half as many minutes as Ronaldo. Essentially he is among of the very best dribblers when it comes to strikers of his generation if not the best.
 

Fobal

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Some of Aguero's dribbling before City is outstanding. He's only marginally behind Cristiano in total dtibbles completed despite playing at the most half as many minutes as Ronaldo. Essentially he is among of the very best dribblers when it comes to strikers of his generation if not the best.
He has some blame in him because he become pretty lazy when he stablished in City...on his defense he was also told by his mates to play more simply and expect the ball further and combine more than dribbling. When Pep arrived he had to add at least some defensive shadow and less free movement so the whole combo might have create an idea of him being a pure goalscorer, but not the extreme I've even saw Lineker talk about. In fact even then he did some slaloms and some of those ended in goals. Yet at the end of the day he certainly wasn't the sort of second forward/"mediapunta" with goal from his Independiente and Ateltico days, he certainly was more fun to watch than City's fatty injury prone one as great as he still was.
 

Wilt

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All this slating Haaland is hilarious :lol: it’s like trying to slag off your neighbour’s Ferrari.

He‘s simply a goal machine.
 

Gehrman

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All this slating Haaland is hilarious :lol: it’s like trying to slag off your neighbour’s Ferrari.

He‘s simply a goal machine.
If you own a lamborghini you'd goona look down on a Ferrari.
 

Fobal

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Porsche, Lambo and Ferrari...Blondes, Brunettes and Redheads...what's not to like on either case
 

Alpha 1

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The thing is that his numbers are the best in the last 50 years, hence why he's been talked about in the same league as the greatest to ever play the game. There hasn't been a kid (or anyone alse) who's scored 36 goals in a season in the PL or has more than a goal a game in the CL, or has around a goal a game for the national team or whatever club he plays for. Those numbers are the best we have seen for a 23 year old in Europe, at least post WW2.
When he also wins the the treble in his first season with City, those talks will not stop.
He's top scorer in the toughest league in the world right now despite being out injured for 2 months.
The "he makes City worse" claims is just, well....to use a kind word....delusional.

When it comes to being decisive in big games:

He is 23 and will get plenty of opportunities to be decisive in big games the next 15 years.
His record so far in KO stages of the CL: is 13 goals and 3 assists in 14 games. (1 trophy)
In domestic cup finals: 2 goals in 2 games (2 trophies)

Messi at 23.
12 goals and 2 assists in 21 games in the KO-stages of the CL. He had 0 goals in 6 semifinals and 1 goals in that final against us (1 trophy)
He also had 1 goal in the domestic cup final he had played (1 trophy).

Ronaldo at 23
7 goals and 2 assists in 17 games in the KO stages of the CL. 1 goal in 4 semis and 1 goals in the final vs. Chelsea.
1 goal (Against Millwall) in 3 FA-cup finals (1 trophy)
1 goal (Against Wigan) in 2 League cup finals (2 trophies)

Mbappe at 23
16 goals and 3 assists in 21 games in the KO stages of the CL, 1 goal in 5 semis and 0 goals in 1 final (0 trophies)
0 goals and 3 assists in 2 league cup final (1 trophy)
1 goal and 1 assists in 4 coupe la France finals (3 trophies)

Top 10 goals per game in the CL (all time):
Haaland 1,11
Der Bomber 0,97
Puskas 0,88
Altafini 0,86
Di Stefano 0,84
Messi and Lewa 0,79
C. Ronaldo and Ruud 0,77
Papin 0,76

It's not like his numbers doesn't look good when comparing him to these guys, they look fantastic against the very best. And he's 23.
The 2 performances he had against Sevilla (who hadn't conceded in 800 minutes before playing Dortmund) in the CL back in 2021 was alien like.
He's a very special kid.

Let's see what his big game stats and trophy cabinet looks like in 15 years from now and see if he's still worthy of a mention.
Separate the goal scorer from the player. Haaland is a great goalscorer and potentially one of the greatest goalscorers in history. I'll tell you how he will be judged in the end; as a great goalscorer just like Muller, just like Shearer if you consider the premier league. The rest of his play too mediocre to be considered amongst the best ever to play the game.

Don't know why you need to exaggerate so much. Norwegian?
 

KeanoMagicHat

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Like you said, if it is this easy Jesus would have scored at least 20 goals a season while he was at Man City, given the chances city created per game, but he never did.
Or Aguero, who was a fine striker and considered one of the world's best but never scored at the same rate as Haaland, despite playing with De Bruyne's service too.
 

brunoag4

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Or Aguero, who was a fine striker and considered one of the world's best but never scored at the same rate as Haaland, despite playing with De Bruyne's service too.
Kevin De Bruyne says Sergio Aguero is the best all-round striker he’s played with

"Yeah. Honestly, Kun is probably the best all-round striker I’ve played with. Just everything. He had speed, power, could go deep, could go short, left or right, headers… he was unbelievable. So, so good.”

"He wasn’t just about goalscoring – something he was obviously incredible at.He had it all, as De Bruyne says. He could link play brilliantly, and also had the technical qualities to make him useful between the lines. He’d run the channels, too."

https://www.manchestercity.news/kev...s-the-best-all-round-striker-hes-played-with/
 

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Funny reading this thread! Did anyone ever say Haaland compares to Messi et al? I don’t get this incessant need to state the obvious. Even reading this thread Cristiano Ronaldo is reduced to a poacher :lol: I’m very happy I got to experience CR’s most exciting and perhaps best seasons before he deliberately changed his game..

Haaland isn’t a GOAT fotballer-material, he might become a GOAT striker though. A striker’s first job is to score goals unless I’m remembering it wrong.
 

Eddy_JukeZ

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All this slating Haaland is hilarious :lol: it’s like trying to slag off your neighbour’s Ferrari.

He‘s simply a goal machine.
Don't think he's getting slated that much. There's some people going OTT with the praise(like best goal-scorer ever up to this point in his career historically or comparisons to Messi/Ronaldo focusing only on goals).

He's an incredible player either way.
 

B20

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All this slating Haaland is hilarious :lol: it’s like trying to slag off your neighbour’s Ferrari.

He‘s simply a goal machine.
more like your neighbour's cybertruck
 

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So, you think Haaland has suberb link-up, hold-up, dribbling, passing skills with amazing ball control, the guy with 15-20 touches a game, shows great performance even when he doesn't score. Maybe, you should enlighten us with your facts.

As if the sentiment on him is different elsewhere. Wherever you look, just like here, most football fans find him overrated with limited skills and just boring.

Why arent people going insane over Haaland?
www.reddit.com/r/PremierLeague/comments/17tyol2/why_arent_people_going_insane_over_haaland/

" In the big games last season, quite often he was mostly anonymous. He just isn't that kind of player. He can finish well, but he is not the key player. He is therefore not the best player in the world, and overrated in those terms."

"He's a tap in merchant, not really particularly exciting to watch for me."

"I think it’s partly because he’s boring. He doesn’t have much character or much to talk about in terms of playing style"

"Most people see Haaland as a "tap-in merchant. I mean yeah, he's probably scored most tap-ins than any other player this year"

"He doesn’t score goals that xcite people, no 18+ yard shots, no dribbles, he’s just a big oaf waiting for a group of the most talented players to feed him a tap in."

"I just don’t enjoy watching him. Most of his goals are just basic tap ins. "

"city would win UCL without him , city was already the strongest team in the league , it’s not like he joined and then they became unbeatable."

"Cause the way goes about achieving the above mentioned feats is extremely unattractive or at the very least banal to most people."

"I think because he is great at scoring goals but his overall game is not very interesting. "

"He's generic and boring."

"His numbers are incredible but he isn’t the type of player that lights up the pitch. He’ll often be completely anonymous for 80% of the game, and then score a tap in or a penalty."

"because a lot of people actually watch football not just the statistics, he is just not an enjoyable player to watch. he might touch the ball 10 times a match and its either a tapin or a penalty."

"I’m a city fan, and I found i use to have my eyes glued to him for the majority of the game, then I realised he actually doesn’t do very much till he randomly scores."

"He isn't a very pleasing player to watch."

"There's waaay more to the game than goals. He's not even the best or second best player on his team"

"There is something about him and his goals that somehow manage to just not be that impressive compared to the other top players."

"Drool over tap in goals? Gawd, give me something special! You could see Messi’s talent. Ronaldo scored and exhibited some sublime skills. Even Mbappe and Lewandowski do other things aside from the tap in goals. I, honestly, haven’t seen Halaand show any sublime or jaw dropping skills - imho, he’s just a better version of Lukaku."

etc. etc.
You seem to lack basic comprehension skills.
 

Gehrman

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Funny reading this thread! Did anyone ever say Haaland compares to Messi et al? I don’t get this incessant need to state the obvious. Even reading this thread Cristiano Ronaldo is reduced to a poacher :lol: I’m very happy I got to experience CR’s most exciting and perhaps best seasons before he deliberately changed his game..

Haaland isn’t a GOAT fotballer-material, he might become a GOAT striker though. A striker’s first job is to score goals unless I’m remembering it wrong.
People are certainly comparing their numbers at the same age. However both Messi and Ronnie had spent most of their time as wingers at that age. Haalands numbers are stellar though.
 

Alpha 1

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Funny reading this thread! Did anyone ever say Haaland compares to Messi et al? I don’t get this incessant need to state the obvious. Even reading this thread Cristiano Ronaldo is reduced to a poacher :lol: I’m very happy I got to experience CR’s most exciting and perhaps best seasons before he deliberately changed his game..

Haaland isn’t a GOAT fotballer-material, he might become a GOAT striker though. A striker’s first job is to score goals unless I’m remembering it wrong.
Ronaldo became a poacher after age of 30 as an adaptation to loss of pace which he relied on ALOT. He had to do this because the other aspects of his game like playmaking and close control were never great.

Having said that, his allround play while much better earlier than 05/06, it wasn't as amazing as that of
other greats.
People are certainly comparing their numbers at the same age. However both Messi and Ronnie had spent most of their time as wingers at that age. Haalands numbers are stellar though.
It's not even about position. Messi in the false 9 did far far more than just score as did R9.

I'm not critical of Haaland per se. He is doing what he has been bought to do. It is the hype that is being created that I'm against. He is a great goalscorer. Period. No need to say things like he is going to surpass so and so if he continues like this or that he is amazingly unique. Every great player is unique.
 

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Ronaldo became a poacher after age of 30 as an adaptation to loss of pace which he relied on ALOT. He had to do this because the other aspects of his game like playmaking and close control were never great.

Having said that, his allround play while much better earlier than 05/06, it wasn't as amazing as that of
other greats.

It's not even about position. Messi in the false 9 did far far more than just score as did R9.

I'm not critical of Haaland per se. He is doing what he has been bought to do. It is the hype that is being created that I'm against. He is a great goalscorer. Period. No need to say things like he is going to surpass so and so if he continues like this or that he is amazingly unique. Every great player is unique.
What hype is that precisely?

Most of the coverage around him has been about his insane goal record, which he's replicated everywhere (so it's not just about him playing for City)

Has anyone said he's better than R9 or CR7? Or Van Basten, or the other striker-playmaker-dribblers in one darlings of our draft forum?
 

Handré1990

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People are certainly comparing their numbers at the same age. However both Messi and Ronnie had spent most of their time as wingers at that age. Haalands numbers are stellar though.
Yeah, because their numbers are comparable. People keep saying wingers, Giggs was a winger, Beckham as well, do you guys really delude yourselves into thinking Messi and Ronaldo played in a similar setup?

Agree that he’s a pretty boring fotballer though! Doesn’t make his goal record any less impressive.
 
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Handré1990

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Ronaldo became a poacher after age of 30 as an adaptation to loss of pace which he relied on ALOT. He had to do this because the other aspects of his game like playmaking and close control were never great.

Having said that, his allround play while much better earlier than 05/06, it wasn't as amazing as that of
other greats.

It's not even about position. Messi in the false 9 did far far more than just score as did R9.

I'm not critical of Haaland per se. He is doing what he has been bought to do. It is the hype that is being created that I'm against. He is a great goalscorer. Period. No need to say things like he is going to surpass so and so if he continues like this or that he is amazingly unique. Every great player is unique.
Just say you only started watching football a few years ago, no need to write a long post;) He changed into a goalscoring focal point from the left for RM loooong before his pace went.
 

Gehrman

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Yeah, because their numbers are comparable. People keep saying wingers, Giggs was a winger, Beckham as well, do you guys really delude yourselves into thinking Messi and Ronaldo played in a similar setup?

Agree that he’s a pretty boring fotballer though! Doesn’t make his goal record any less impressive.
Im talking about their main positions and roles they had played in at the age 23. At 23 they were forwards without defensive duties but they actually started out as wingers. Inverted wingers are still wingers. Haaland has been a striker all his career. Ronaldo absolutely was a traditional winger in his 1st 4 seasons.
 
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Handré1990

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Im talking about their main positions and roles they had played in at the age 23. At 23 they were forwards without defensive duties but they actually started out as wingers. Inverted wingers are still wingers. Haaland has been a striker all his career. Ronaldo absolutely was a traditional winger in his 1st 4 seasons.
And his numbers didn’t compare to Haaland’s until his 4th season, isn’t that right? That’s what I meant when I said his best and most exciting. 06/07 if I’m not mistaken. That year he was the best player in the world in my opinion. When he started putting up those numbers consistently he didn’t really have those same defensive duties (not counting close games vs top opposition). I don’t think we’re in disagreement here. Just a thought, but would Messi and Ronaldo put up the same numbers as lone strikers in those years? Different players and styles altogether.

Like I said, it’s fair to say Haaland’s numbers are amazing without going into a debate comparing him to two of maybe the 4-5 best players in history. You only need to watch Haaland once to reach the conclusion that he’s never going to compare favourably to any of those giants of the game. His numbers still might.
 

Gehrman

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And his numbers didn’t compare to Haaland’s until his 4th season, isn’t that right? That’s what I meant when I said his best and most exciting. 06/07 if I’m not mistaken. That year he was the best player in the world in my opinion. When he started putting up those numbers consistently he didn’t really have those same defensive duties (not counting close games vs top opposition). I don’t think we’re in disagreement here. Just a thought, but would Messi and Ronaldo put up the same numbers as lone strikers in those years? Different players and styles altogether.

Like I said, it’s fair to say Haaland’s numbers are amazing without going into a debate comparing him to two of maybe the 4-5 best players in history. You only need to watch Haaland once to reach the conclusion that he’s never going to compare favourably to any of those giants of the game. His numbers still might.
My point was that @troylocker was comparing goal stats of Haaland vs Messi and Ronaldo in their total goals, total Cl goals at the age of 23. Its somewhat misleading as both of them had only been proper forwards for a 1 season or 2 at that age and had completely different roles prior to that.
 

Handré1990

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My point was that @troylocker was comparing goal stats of Haaland vs Messi and Ronaldo in their total goals, total Cl goals at the age of 23. Its somewhat misleading as both of them had only been proper forwards for a 1 season or 2 at that age and had completely different roles prior to that.
Doesn’t really matter does it? Goal stats aren’t debatable, just factual numbers. Like I said, you only need to watch Haaland once to understand he’s not like these other guys. Again, I don’t think they would’ve been capable of matching his output even if they were played as strikers from the start. So your focus on their initial position is just a theoretical discussion.
 

Gehrman

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Doesn’t really matter does it? Goal stats aren’t debatable, just factual numbers. Like I said, you only need to watch Haaland once to understand he’s not like these other guys. Again, I don’t think they would’ve been capable of matching his output even if they were played as strikers from the start. So your focus on their initial position is just a theoretical discussion.
What i mean its pointless to compare goals stats vs Messi and Ronaldo at this stage when they had only been forwards for 1 or 2 seasons. It makes more sense to compare him with Müller, Rvn or other great strikers at age who played in the cl. Mpabbe is the more obvious comparison. Or R9 who didnt play that much in cl. Or Pelé for total goals at that age. Not knocking Haaland, he could end his career as the most prolific scorer ever.
 

Fobal

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Doesn’t really matter does it? Goal stats aren’t debatable, just factual numbers. Like I said, you only need to watch Haaland once to understand he’s not like these other guys. Again, I don’t think they would’ve been capable of matching his output even if they were played as strikers from the start. So your focus on their initial position is just a theoretical discussion.
This triggered a thought I had since ever...I always thought Messi had everything to be a lazy rival's area merchant with a Romario/Aguero type of player atributes and style, yet the lad (in many ways thankfully) doesn't feel that, nor any sane manager would use him like that in his best years. But let's say these last 3 years till he retires (of course with teams that can manage to play him that role and do not need him in the mid controlling everything) it would have been fun to say the least.
Regarding atributes to do such thing he has it all in spades to play such role, yet two probably issues: his desire to be this natural "enganche" all around mid/forward...his disconnection with the game when he doesn't receive the ball.

In any case would have been fun watching him scoring galore with a well oiled machine behind not needing him to do the cooking, laundry and everything like normally happens with him and just putting the ball in every corner trolling the game till he retires. Yesterday I watched him in Miyami, he is in troll mode, he has attemp at least two Olympic goals, dinking the ball above a player in the ground, I wish at least Miami was a better assembled team to fullfill my Messiromario dream, he can play till he is 45 in such role.
 
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Alpha 1

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Just say you only started watching football a few years ago, no need to write a long post;) He changed into a goalscoring focal point from the left for RM loooong before his pace went.
I watched Cristiano since his debut vs Bolton in 2003. Yes Ronaldo was a great goalscorer even before he became a poacher. Your point is?
 

troylocker

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Separate the goal scorer from the player. Haaland is a great goalscorer and potentially one of the greatest goalscorers in history. I'll tell you how he will be judged in the end; as a great goalscorer just like Muller, just like Shearer if you consider the premier league. The rest of his play too mediocre to be considered amongst the best ever to play the game.

Don't know why you need to exaggerate so much. Norwegian?
The reason I've followed him so closely is that I'm a tall guy (6'3''+) who played my entire football career (25 seasons at senior level) as a striker myself. Combine that with a fascination for statistics and abnormalties in statistics and you can maybe see why this guys catches my attention. The comparisons with the greats aren't exaggerated when it comes to numbers. He is an insane outlier that I haven't seen before. To be that flawed in so many areas and so extreme in the things he is good at is very rare. His movement, anticipation and reactions is best I've ever seen and his combination of size and explosiveness is also the most brutal I've seen. I'm sure City could get a lot more out of him if they adjusted their game a bit more to suit his strenghts. They literally very rarely exploit the space between oppo GK and defense both in transitions or with crosses. Just imagine if they mixed it up and played more direct just a little more often. That's pretty scary.

He is good in a very different way than the silky #10s and wide forwards because he is so far from complete.
 

BlueMoonOutcast

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Just scored his 8th hat trick for City. Interestingly, or not, it's his first away from the Etihad.
 

Hakara

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I know it's Luton, but if city play more like this, playing to Haalands pace and strength, with KdB behind piercing the balls, I don't think anyone can stop them.
 

Hakara

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And there you go, another KdB to Haaland.