Nordic Ghost Yeti (Scandi Carroll) | Haaland at City

Bole Top

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I thought he was terrible. the best thing he did yesterday was tracking back to stop Vini late in the game.
 

adexkola

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I don't think anyone 'discounts goals and goalscorers', more that people understand those things in their proper context, as part (an important part) of the whole connected picture of a team or a game rather than something completely apart and way above everyone and everything else. I really think that if Hugo Sanchez and Maradona were around today, you'd have people arguing that Sanchez was better because he scored more goals. Such is the discourse today.
Yes they do, but that is besides the point. You just said a whole bunch of nothing (we do understand proper context, which is why expecting Haaland to be Messi is absurd and not proper context) and then implied many would think Hugo Sanchez would be better because he scored more goals than Maradona. First of all, no one here has argued that Haaland is better than Messi. Second, here is a hypothetical for you, if you have time to waste this morning) How many goals would Hugo Sanchez have to score in a season to be considered a better player (in that season, strictly on performances) than

i. Coked up, 1994 Maradona
ii. World class, Napoli/Mexico WC Maradona?

Now, for some, they'd be able to put a number on both (no matter how high) because they can put a numerical value on Maradona's performances, and then convert that to some match impact that Hugo Sanchez would then have to replicate. For some others, playmaking is this mythical peak of football, and it's sacrilege to even consider this question. It's the latter that have an aneurysm anytime Haaland is considered to be one of the best players in the world.
 

adexkola

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And these other things lead to goals. For matches against also rans he is useful but against the very best such players become "ghosts". Hold up play is very important because football is a team sport. I'd take players like Henry and Aguero anyday of the week over Haaland.
See, the problem is that we are assuming these players were never ghosts in these kinds of games even with this hold up skill and ability. We watched plenty Arsenal and City games where the mentioned players did the square root of feck all, and it's accepted because players have bad games and tactics can nullify virtually all players if implemented right enough.

Well, outside the draft forum of course.
 

Marwood

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So you're just about stats, right?
For goalscorers the goals scored stat is what its all about. Hojlund andd Haaland aren't good enough at the other stuff to not be scoring lots of goals.

It's that or get a different type of player.
 

Alpha 1

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See, the problem is that we are assuming these players were never ghosts in these kinds of games even with this hold up skill and ability. We watched plenty Arsenal and City games where the mentioned players did the square root of feck all, and it's accepted because players have bad games and tactics can nullify virtually all players if implemented right enough.

Well, outside the draft forum of course.
Not as consistently as Haaland mainly because they had far far more to their game. Both could be create dangerous situations and be good without scoring, Haaland cannot.
 

KeanoMagicHat

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And these other things lead to goals. For matches against also rans he is useful but against the very best such players become "ghosts". Hold up play is very important because football is a team sport. I'd take players like Henry and Aguero anyday of the week over Haaland.
I remember a time when Cristiano Ronaldo was actually criticised for being poor in big matches. Then he became one of the greatest big game players ever. Haaland is on a bad run at the moment, probably for the first time of his career, but he’s 23 years old. Give it 5-6 years and a lot of the posts here could look very foolish. Also do you remember Aguero in big CL games for City? The days when they went out to Monaco, Lyon etc.

Also I’ve seen people here say that Haaland is costing Man City in chance creation. After a night they scored 3 goals at the Bernebeu. How many should they have scored without him? 5? 6?
 

Gehrman

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I remember a time when Cristiano Ronaldo was actually criticised for being poor in big matches. Then he became one of the greatest big game players ever. Haaland is on a bad run at the moment, probably for the first time of his career, but he’s 23 years old. Give it 5-6 years and a lot of the posts here could look very foolish. Also do you remember Aguero in big CL games for City? The days when they went out to Monaco, Lyon etc.

Also I’ve seen people here say that Haaland is costing Man City in chance creation. After a night they scored 3 goals at the Bernebeu. How many should they have scored without him? 5? 6?
Very much this. And its not like he hasn't scored against the best domestic teams.
 

Rooney in Paris

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See, the problem is that we are assuming these players were never ghosts in these kinds of games even with this hold up skill and ability.
No we're not. We're talking about the regularity with which it happens to Haaland.
For goalscorers the goals scored stat is what its all about. Hojlund andd Haaland aren't good enough at the other stuff to not be scoring lots of goals.

It's that or get a different type of player.
That's totally untrue but if that's what you see, then there's no point discussing.
 

iHicksy

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I don't disagree with that description, special talents stand out, but when the stats come out I just cringe, no, he'd matter how good Ronald or Messi are, and they are very good, can you imagine the reactionof Ronaldo playing for United in 1970, and then Tommy Smith, Norman Hunter or Ron Harris tackled him - George Best could handle it, not sure Ronny could!
Eh? Did you watch Ronaldo for us? He was kicked to feck every game, and hacked down multiple times in a season. The first season he'd complain because he simply wasn't used to it, and he was only 18 coming to the toughest league in the world. He then turned tough as hell, he'd shrug it off when he was kicked and it would often take multiple hacks to bring him down, he wasn't the diving primadonna that some make him out to be. He was 10x more resilient when he was a pacey winger than the likes of Bruno.

You think he couldn't handle it? The majority of these challenges are straight reds and a lot of them could have been career ending. I think you're forgetting how rough football was even 14 years ago in the prem. Every single one of these on him would be a red nowadays, look how many times he's STAMPED ON whilst on the floor. Honestly i find the disrespect online for Ronaldo insane - i don't know if it's clouded by his longevity - but a young United ronaldo at his peak was just a force of nature and tough as hell.

 
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UnrelatedPsuedo

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Eh? Did you watch Ronaldo for us? He was kicked to feck every game, and hacked down multiple times in a season. The first season he'd complain because he simply wasn't used to it, and he was only 18 coming to the toughest league in the world. He then turned tough as hell, he'd shrug it off when he was kicked and it would often take multiple hacks to bring him down, he wasn't the diving primadonna that some make him out to be. He was 10x more resilient when he was a pacey winger than the likes of Bruno.

You think he couldn't handle it? The majority of these challenges are straight reds and a lot of them could have been career ending. I think you're forgetting how rough football was even 14 years ago in the prem. Every single one of these on him would be a red nowadays, look how many times he's STAMPED ON whilst on the floor. Honestly i find the disrespect online for Ronaldo insane - i don't know if it's clouded by his longevity - but a young United ronaldo at his peak was just a force of nature and tough as hell.

The fella was hard as nails. Had he lost his cool, punched a few people, and not had the stereotypical histrionics every now and again, people would have him held up as a completely different player.

But, he was emotional and that suggested he wasn’t handling getting battered. He got kicked through accident, frustration, and occasionally malice.

There was that famous time he turned up at a Euros or World Cup for a press conference. Flip flops and shorts. His legs were black and blue.

Any suggestion he was soft is mad.
 

adexkola

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Not as consistently as Haaland mainly because they had far far more to their game. Both could be create dangerous situations and be good without scoring, Haaland cannot.
Are you sure about that? I remember Arsenal (bar that 05-06 season) consistently failing to translate their domestic game to the European scene. I remember City getting eliminated by Tottenham and Liverpool and Lyon, with Aguero doing very little. Seems like them "having far more to their game" contributed feck all to their teams in those big games?
 

DWelbz19

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Trying to ridicule it doesn't make it any less true. He genuinely disappears and is useless in a few games. This doesn't exclude the fact he's a fantastic goalscorer.
First time replying to that poster? That’s his MO
 

adexkola

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Also I’ve seen people here say that Haaland is costing Man City in chance creation. After a night they scored 3 goals at the Bernebeu. How many should they have scored without him? 5? 6?
It's insane right?

Some say when he plays it's like City played with 10 men. And at some point you have to decide whether you're simply telling lies, or Pep (contrary to popular belief) is a magician, such that he can gift the opposition an extra man and still beat them or hold them to a draw... but it can't be both
 

Kwabs

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Yes they do, but that is besides the point. You just said a whole bunch of nothing (we do understand proper context, which is why expecting Haaland to be Messi is absurd and not proper context) and then implied many would think Hugo Sanchez would be better because he scored more goals than Maradona. First of all, no one here has argued that Haaland is better than Messi. Second, here is a hypothetical for you, if you have time to waste this morning) How many goals would Hugo Sanchez have to score in a season to be considered a better player (in that season, strictly on performances) than

i. Coked up, 1994 Maradona
ii. World class, Napoli/Mexico WC Maradona?

Now, for some, they'd be able to put a number on both (no matter how high) because they can put a numerical value on Maradona's performances, and then convert that to some match impact that Hugo Sanchez would then have to replicate. For some others, playmaking is this mythical peak of football, and it's sacrilege to even consider this question. It's the latter that have an aneurysm anytime Haaland is considered to be one of the best players in the world.
Why are you bringing up Messi? I never mentioned his name. Messi is arguably the most skilful player of all time. No one expects him to be Messi, just to improve his all round game. It's really not too much to ask.
 

Wilt

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Lots of eejits slagging Haaland. The fact he’s scored 6 goals (including a hat trick) plus 3 assists from 4 appearances against Utd, may have something to do with it ?

Lets be honest there’s not a club in Europe who wouldn’t want him.
 

adexkola

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Lots of eejits slagging Haaland. He’s scored 6 goals (including a hat trick) plus 3 assists from 4 appearances against Utd, may have something to do with it ?

Lets be honest there’s not a club in Europe who wouldn’t want him.
Come on, let's be nice. Just different perspectives
 

devaneios

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Also I’ve seen people here say that Haaland is costing Man City in chance creation. After a night they scored 3 goals at the Bernebeu. How many should they have scored without him? 5? 6?
Very dishonest take. They clearly had a below average game(for their standards, at least) regarding creation. Only one of their goals had some nice articulation; the other two came from brilliant individual skill(and a bit of luck). If a team couldn't conclude any good pass exchange in attack, but one of their players had a screamer from outside of the box, other made a great dribbling run and scored and the third goal came from a dead ball, did this team have a very creative game?

They had a lot of problems to penetrate Madrid defense and one of their attack players was useless to help opening spaces because of his negative hold-up and link-up skills.
 

Rooney in Paris

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Also I’ve seen people here say that Haaland is costing Man City in chance creation. After a night they scored 3 goals at the Bernebeu. How many should they have scored without him? 5? 6?
They were quite poor in creating yesterday, they scored 2 wonder goals from distance (that had absolutely nothing to do with him) and I'd say it was actually quite a good example of a game where his contribution to the play was problematic. In the same way Bellingham's poor play yesterday was an issue for Real and their creation - despite them scoring 3.
Lots of eejits slagging Haaland. The fact he’s scored 6 goals (including a hat trick) plus 3 assists from 4 appearances against Utd, may have something to do with it ?

Lets be honest there’s not a club in Europe who wouldn’t want him.
If by "slagging off" you mean discussing the overall ability of a player beyond his goalscoring, and his performances in certain types of games... then sure.

I started off my posts on here by highlighting he's an incredible goalscorer - the best around currently, and if he keeps up this pace, he'll be in the discussion for best ever - but that there's other aspects of his game that it's fair to discuss, especially after performances like last night.
 

Murder on Zidanes Floor

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Lots of eejits slagging Haaland. The fact he’s scored 6 goals (including a hat trick) plus 3 assists from 4 appearances against Utd, may have something to do with it ?

Lets be honest there’s not a club in Europe who wouldn’t want him.
Mate, if scoring against us was a huge feat, Pascal Gross would be a Balon D'or candidate.
 

Wilt

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If by "slagging off" you mean discussing the overall ability of a player beyond his goalscoring, and his performances in certain types of games... then sure.

I started off my posts on here by highlighting he's an incredible goalscorer - the best around currently, and if he keeps up this pace, he'll be in the discussion for best ever - but that there's other aspects of his game that it's fair to discuss, especially after performances like last night.
He is indeed “an incredible goalscorer” then again he’s never pretended to be anything other than that. He‘d probably agree he’s not a Ronaldo, Messi or Mbappe so what’s the point in comparing him to them?

He’s an outright centre forward who happens to be very good at scoring goals. He’s only 23 and still learning.
 

giorno

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Not as consistently as Haaland mainly because they had far far more to their game. Both could be create dangerous situations and be good without scoring, Haaland cannot.
Bull.Crap. "These kind of games"? Haaland already done more in CL than Aguero in his career. Ffs

Henry, sure, he's not there yet, but again, we're not talking some mythical player who dominated the highest level of the sport. Henry had exactly 2 CL runs in his career comparable to what Haaland did last season
 

heraklion

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Haaland is always a Balon D’or candidate. I wouldn’t bet against him winning it in the next few years.
He can always be a candidate for "most tap-ins", there's no way he's a regular candidate for "the best player in the world".
He's not even no.4 no.5 best player in his team.

Some here think most tap-ins = best player, that'd put Gerd Muller (who's 10 times the player Haaland is) above Beckenbauer and Cruyff, and Hugo Sanchez over Maradona.. I'm glad so many began to call out social media era BS and tap-in obsession..
 
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heraklion

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Bull.Crap. "These kind of games"? Haaland already done more in CL than Aguero in his career. Ffs

Henry, sure, he's not there yet, but again, we're not talking some mythical player who dominated the highest level of the sport. Henry had exactly 2 CL runs in his career comparable to what Haaland did last season
Henry, Aguero were not lucky enough to have their teammates save their sorry ass unlike Haaland when Haaland went on the greatest ghosting trip ever in the world of football as the striker of a treble winning team in the business end of the season. The luckiest player ever in a treble winning team, managing to shit the the bed in every single semi final & final as the main goalscorer of the team and still winning a treble thanks to his teammates doubling their efforts like yesterday. No way another team would win that many trophies with the main striker scoring 0 goals in that many games, shows the true power of City.

He was bailed out game in game out just like yesterday so that some here can say "but but he's the best player in the world because most tap-ins" when he was not even the best player at City last year behind Rodri, KDB, Gundogan, Silva etc.

City might win the CL this year with him playing like yesterday with 5-6/10 ratings as usual and some will still come and continue say "but but Haaland brought the CL for City, because before he arrived, City never won the CL, now now have a double with him", that's the level and quality of analysis remaining few of his fans make here..
 
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giorno

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Henry, Aguero were not lucky enough to have their teammates save their sorry ass
Aguero was a big time bottler, nevermind lucky enough to have teammates to save him. He was the one letting them down more often than not. Henry, again, had 2 CL runs comparable to Haaland's for City. The one time he had a great team around him, like Haaland, is the one he won the CL doing feck all in SF and Final. The other time, his teammates bailed his "sorry ass" in the SF but couldn't in the final, when he let them down. Really no different from Haaland. Who was also absolutely shredding this competition at Dortmund
 

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He can always be a candidate for "most tap-ins", there's no way he's a regular candidate for "the best player in the world".
He's not even no.4 no.5 best player in his team.

Some here think most tap-ins = best player, that'd put Gerd Muller (who's 10 times the player Haaland is) above Beckenbauer and Cruyff, and Hugo Sanchez over Maradona.. I'm glad so many began to call out social media era BS and tap-in obsession..
If you're not going to actually argue seriously, maybe refrain from posting at all? You're an awful poster as it stands.
 

heraklion

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If you're not going to actually argue seriously, maybe refrain from posting at all? You're an awful poster as it stands.
If you're not going to actually contribute to this thread on Haaland seriously, maybe refrain from posting at all? Your contribution level to this thread is sub-zero as it stands..
 

heraklion

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Aguero was a big time bottler, nevermind lucky enough to have teammates to save him. He was the one letting them down more often than not. Henry, again, had 2 CL runs comparable to Haaland's for City. The one time he had a great team around him, like Haaland, is the one he won the CL doing feck all in SF and Final. The other time, his teammates bailed his "sorry ass" in the SF but couldn't in the final, when he let them down. Really no different from Haaland. Who was also absolutely shredding this competition at Dortmund
I agree, never said Aguero did amazing things at those crucial moments just like Haaland. Haaland is a big-time bottler as well, but was extremely lucky to have those teammates showing up at the most important moments in every single big game. Then, some attributed that treble to him ignoring all these things and then went on the declare "the best player in the world".

Speaking about Dortmund, they had their best campaign in Bundesliga in years right after Haaland left scoring the same number of goals, and they're already in the QFs of the CL without him this year, finishing their group above AC Milan, PSG, and Newcastle.
 
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Wilt

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He can always be a candidate for "most tap-ins", there's no way he's a regular candidate for "the best player in the world".
He's not even no.4 no.5 best player in his team.

Some here think most tap-ins = best player, that'd put Gerd Muller (who's 10 times the player Haaland is) above Beckenbauer and Cruyff, and Hugo Sanchez over Maradona.. I'm glad so many began to call out social media era BS and tap-in obsession..
We all know you hate him and you’re absolutely terrified he may threaten your ‘Messi God’ :lol:

Do yourself a favour… take the Messi poster off your bedroom ceiling and try find yourself a girlfriend.
 

heraklion

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you’re absolutely terrified he may threaten your ‘Messi God’ :lol:
Not only me, the whole world is terrified that Haaland is gonna threaten Messi the GOAT with that "League Two level overall play quality" as Roy Keane said.

At this point, he just looks like an improved reincarnated version of young Messi with those GOAT level playmaking, technique, dribbling, vision, goalscoring skills, it's too scary. :lol:

Do yourself a favour… take the Messi poster off your bedroom ceiling and try find yourself a girlfriend.
Do yourself a favor, and watch football before using Haaland, threat, and Messi in the same sentence.
 

Wilt

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Not only me, the whole world is terrified that Haaland is gonna threaten Messi the GOAT" with that "League Two level overall play quality" as Roy Keane said.

At this point, he just looks like an improved reincarnated version of young Messi with those GOAT level playmaking, technique, dribbling, vision, goalscoring skills. :lol:



Do yourself a favor, and watch football before using Haaland, threat, and Messi in the same sentence.
If you look hard enough you may be able to find a life size blow up Messi doll ….don’t be shy you know you want to.
 

stefan92

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I agree, never said Aguero did amazing things at those crucial moments just like Haaland. Haaland is a big-time bottler as well, but was extremely lucky to have those teammates showing up at the most important moments in every single big game. Then, some attributed that treble to him ignoring all these things and then went on the declare "the best player in the world".

Speaking about Dortmund, they had their best campaign in Bundesliga in years right after Haaland left scoring the same number of goals, and they're already in the QFs of the CL without him this year, finishing their group above AC Milan, PSG, and Newcastle.
And the only title Dortmund recently won was the Cup in Haaland's last season. And last season they fecked up to win the league without Haaland after Bayern allowed them a free hit at it. So what about that?
 

brunoag4

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We all know you hate him and you’re absolutely terrified he may threaten your ‘Messi God’ :lol:

Do yourself a favour… take the Messi poster off your bedroom ceiling and try find yourself a girlfriend.
Do you truly think that Haaland has the potential to be a threat to Messi, Maradona, Pele type of players?
I thought delusion had its limits.
 

RuudTom83

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From the few times I've watched him this season, it seems fair to question/criticise Haaland's game, you can't always be lauded.

Side note....Nunez and Gvardiol are getting off with almost zero coverage, costing a combined 152 million euros those two need to be getting some stick as well.
 

Mike Smalling

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Rafael Van der Vaart seems to have turned into a bit of a controversy merchant, but this quote isn't all that inaccurate in my opinion: "He was very bad. If he doesn't score, he's quite useless. I find him a very average player on the ball. His teammates even skipped him. He was the worst player on the pitch."

Pretty much the same Keane said the other week. Haaland will continue to divide opinion, but as long as City are winning trophies and he is scoring goals, the argument against him isn't very strong.